Jeremy: All right.

You guys ready?

Emily: I'm as ready as I'll ever be.

Jeremy: All right.

on, I'm on energy drink tonight.

Emily: Okay,

Jeremy: Trying to stay awake.

Emily: you got.

Emmanuel: Believe in you.

Jeremy: Good evening and welcome
to Progressively Horrified, the

podcast where we old horror to
progressive standards never agreed to.

Tonight we're talking about an African
horror movie made in Senegal and

distributed in the US by Shutter.

It's Salom.

I am your host Jeremy Whitley.

And with me tonight I have a
panel of Shils Ensena Bites.

First.

First, they're here to challenge the
sexy werewolf, sexy vampire binary.

My co-host Ben Khan.

Ben Howie, tonight,

Ben: I started watching this film
and I wasn't taking any notes.

I was into it.

I was just wanting to absorb it and
watch it, and then by the end, I thought

I better be writing some shit down.

got thoughts

Jeremy: this movie will make you
think whatever it is you think.

It'll definitely be something.

By the end of it.

And the cinnamon roll of Cino by,
it's our co-host Emily Martin.

How you dite Emily?

Emily: feeling similar to Ben, but
instead of writing stuff down I

was doing that for the most of it.

I needed to look stuff up.

you know, There's a lot of stuff
that I recommend looking up.

We'll get there, but yeah.

Ben: the fuck the entity
is supposed to be?

Emily: I don't know if we're
ever gonna get that, but

Jeremy: Yeah, I, I, I had the same
reaction the first time I watched it.

Cause I watched this one uh, back
during October and this was one

of my like, oh, we're gonna have
to come back around to this one.

And our guest English
educator, Emmanuel Lipscomb.

Welcome back.

Emmanuel.

Emmanuel: Hello.

Glad to be here.

I have things to say
about this movie also.

Emily: Did you like it?

Emmanuel: I did like it, but also I'm
very dumb, so I like a lot of things.

Ben: I've kind of never taken
a fucking 180 on a movie.

Like as suddenly as I have this movie,
, the first like 45 minutes is some of the

most like, gripping, engaging, tension,
creating like cinema I've ever seen.

The first 45 minutes I am
at the like edge of my seat.

Can't look.

And then the fucking moment,
it's like, oh, no, curses

Emmanuel: I mean, it's two movies in a

Ben: my interest.

Emily: Yeah,

Ben: I just drained, like, it just
like, I was a balloon that just

got like popped open and like all
my interests just drained out.

I'm like, oh, it's just a
reverse quiet place now.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: I think the first time I
watched it, I had a, a somewhat

similar experience, which is
like, I was, I was really into it.

And then there's a lot of, like, it
suddenly gets real uh, goes from a

very, very human, very stylish kind
of action thriller to some extent, to

being a sort of supernatural thing.

And um, I think the first
time I watched it I was like,

yeah, I don't, I don't get it.

I don't get what they're doing.

I don't know what's happening.

I'm not, not terribly happy
about this, this change.

And then uh, I kind of sat with it for
a while and then I came back to it this

time and I was like, all right, no,
I don't like this better this time.

Cause like, I think knowing what was
happening and knowing where it was going,

I was like I was more more ready for it.

You know, I'd looked up some
things after watching it the first

time and I was like, oh, okay.

I get what's kind of going on here.

Ben: All right.

Have to explain some of that context,
cuz my hot take coming outta the gate

is uh, this did not need to be a horror
film, like what it was from the setup.

Just be that

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: this is a movie where the setup is a
trio of mercenaries whose morality is kept

in question to the point, to the degree
where they might be monsters or heroes.

And the movie doesn't make it clear
like needing to stop and get supplies

while transporting a cartel member in
this villa where everyone has secrets

and certain people are starting to know
and there's a police captain and it's

this tense game of cat and mouse and
every character is a ticking time bomb.

There's infighting secrets.

At any time, this whole like peaceful
villa situation could just like explode

and any one of them could like, you
know, just break out into violence.

I think that was more interesting than

Jeremy: I mean, I, I person.

Like this felt like the third
or fifth like movie in a

series about these characters.

And like, that would've been awesome.

Like, I would love to see more
movies about these characters,

but fortunately by the end of it,
there aren't many of them left.

Ben: Yeah, like I, I could have
gone for like an entire franchise of

hyena's movies, a hundred percent.

Like these, quasi mystical
roaming, heroic mercenary trio.

Who just have great chemistry and
bounce off each other fantastically.

Like I, don't think this was the best
movie to tell with these characters.

I don't know.

I'm

Emily: Emmanuel.

What did you like, what did you like?

Emmanuel: So I think you've already
talked about it, like the style for one.

I don't know how so much of it,
it's just oozing charisma at times.

Right.

What is it?

Chaka and his gloves, which turned
out to be a plot point, but are

also just an interesting detail.

Rafa and just carrying this big
cleaver, but also wearing Versaces.

Parts of it are just so endearing.

I can understand how it
feels whiplash, right?

Where you, you think you're getting
one movie and then it's like also

Evil Spirits, some sort of, I
don't know, promise of whatever.

Also, trout and soldiers all,
like, there's a lot going on

here, but I, I don't know.

I, it felt at times like uh, watching
Cowboy Bebop or something where I'm, I'm

so fascinated by the greater world here.

I've got questions, but they're
mostly questions of curiosity.

They're not necessarily plot holes.

I know about you, but I have
15 different terms of, you

know, central African history.

I need to look up.

So,

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: I'm, curious for you guys like
watching it, everybody, like who, who was

your favorite character in this story?

Ben: fucking nailed it with
a cowboy bebo, by the way.

Well, definitely the musician who
turns out to only exist to justify why

there's noise canceling headphones.

Emmanuel: but yeah, also Drake in
their country, so, you know, you

can't write 'em off completely.

Um,

Emily: Rafa.

Emmanuel: Rafa's so cool.

Like he's just

thoroughly, but also he has
the vulnerability where he can

apologize and like, I, I like him.

Ben: I, I really like Jaka

Jeremy: yeah.

Chaka is, I mean, very obviously the
main character, but like, for, for

me watching it the first time I was
really into Minu because he's the

mystical healer character of the party.

He's walking, you know, the
streets of Guinea vaal blowing

you know, dust in people's face
to make 'em pass out and or die.

Unclear.

Ben: Amazing intro.

Fanta- this movie is expertly directed.

Jeremy: The point at which like, you get a
shot of them climbing the stairs in Guinea

vasal and you see like, you see rafa's uh,
Versace shoes and you see that midnight

is not wearing any shoes, , he's just
walking barefoot through this war zone.

I was like, wow.

Interesting detail.

Emmanuel: but also leaving the
calling co cards on all of the

different bodies that they walk by.

I'm so cool.

Emily: yeah, the design of
these characters, like what?

I just saw the first card of
the movie because I didn't

know anything about the movie.

I just looked it up and un shuttered.

The card that has like the three
of them like, it already sold me

because the design was so on point.

and I was like, damn, I need to,
I've, I need a whole mood board

based on these character designs.

Like I need a whole reference
Pinterest based on these designs.

Cuz the designs are so fucking cool.

Like you already care about them.

Especially when you talk about the
contrast with the Versace shoes and the

barefoot and you know, it's so good.

Ben: I want a whole anime, just following
them on like different missions.

They went

Emmanuel: Absolut.

Jeremy: Yeah.

it's it's interesting thinking about
it, about like, you were comparing this

to, to cowboy bebop, and I remember like
watching Cowboy Bebop the first time.

The stuff about vicious was the stuff
that like really stood out to me.

It's like, oh, it's like this
big story about his past and all

the stuff that's really important
despite, like, that's the best thing.

And then rewatching it the second time
and being like, actually it's these little

like one-off episodes where they like
tell these whole stories in them and you

Emmanuel: Right, but they're

Jeremy: these peaks at
the, the wider universe.

Those are what's good.

And that's sort of, this is, you know,
this is the vicious arc of these charact.

Emily: Yeah,

Emmanuel: But to hear, I would tell
it like they have a whole legend and

I'm sure part of it, they've got good
marketing with the Colin cards and so they

have intentionally built this story up.

But I'm, I like you, I wanted
about these other episodes.

Also, mystic in your party, maybe you've
encountered other better horror things.

Ben: Also to what you said, Jeremy,
like those one-off stories are good

because they were the most human.

And that's when I think the movie was
at its best when it was just like these

humans in this very tense situation when
it's these mercenaries on the run with

a police captain and someone also on
the run who knows who they are, and the

inkeeper, who very clearly has all sorts
of dark secrets going on and everyone's

keeping secrets and the mercenaries
could fall into infighting at any moment

like them around the dinner table -both
dinners- is so much more tense than

anything involving like fly monster.

Emily: Yeah.

And even though you have this
really, really solid design for

these characters that make them
stand out they don't rely on that.

you know, it's not main
character design syndrome.

It's they, each of them has a
thing, they have a personality and

it's not based on powers either.

Like, mean we is a little bit
more power-based, but he also has

a personality and, you know, his
actions define as character more

than his cool white dreadlocks.

And, you know, I think he would be
as strong without the cool white

dreadlocks, but, you know, the, the cool
white dreadlocks still fucking kill.

Jeremy: wouldn't be as fun to

Ben: they are very cool.

I wanna upfront about, He
doesn't need the dreadlocks, but

I'm really glad they're there.

Emily: yeah.

But immediately I was like, holy

shit.

Yeah.

So should I get into the recap

Jeremy: Yeah.

Let's do it.

Ben: Yes, because let's get to the ending.

Before- I get into why
I'm mad at this ending.

Emily: Okay.

So, I, I don't know if
this is a short straw.

I really enjoyed this movie.

It was a lot to kind of retell,
so I'm gonna do my best.

Salm, directed by Jean Luk Alo, written
by Jean Lu Ello and Pamela Dio starring

Jan Gael, Evelyn Ai Gien, Roger Salla
Mentor Ba Bruno Henry among others.

We start in the year of 2003 in Guinea bi.

So where a violent campaign against drug
lords has resulted in copious bloodshed.

There was a cu Deta.

They explain it in the beginning
in a very, very stylish fast-paced

like bits of captions, which
actually does the movie good.

The dead and dying of this
particular Tableau, three figures

in Rain Park has picked their way
upstairs through a tenement complex.

These are bons hyenas,
they are our protagonists.

We have Chaka, the haunted ye resourceful
leader, Rafa the tank, and mean

we, the support castor and healer.

Together they're guns are for
higher and their fashion is fire.

And they're here to bring Felix, who
is a drug Lord uh, to safety from

the uh, Guinea Biso military campaign
that's cracking down on the drug lords.

apparently Hydra has paid
them enormous bricks of gold.

To get Felix out of Guinea
Biso and take him to Dakar.

They escaped this military pursuit
in an adorable little Cessna amidst a

lot of racist verbal abuse of Felix.

They don't like him, but they have
been paid enormous bricks of gold.

And they're gonna get him to
Dakar no matter what or are they?

Ala their plane is damaged, and they
have to make an emergency landing in

the Sang Senegal National Reserve.

Salom.

It is mysterious and spooky, but they can
find fuel and provisions for their plane,

which apparently took a knife to the tank.

A knife, someone stabbed
this tank with a knife.

It's.

. That's crazy to me.

Anyway, so they bury, they-

Ben: I really liked how you
said that, like it's the clue,

like it's the answer to clue

Emily: It is.

Ben: With the knife in the engine tank.

Jeremy: There's a plane in the fuel.

Emmanuel: This knife didn't stab itself.

Emily: well, yeah,

Ben: the very crafty.

Emily: So they do their emergency landing.

They bury the Hydra gold and
head to a local camp slash

commune, known as the Beba.

Chaka claims have connections there, but
can't elaborate because he is too busy

being haunted and terrified of water.

So terrified that mean we has to use his
medicine to like, make Chaka pass out.

So at Beba they meet the camp uh,
leader named Omar, who takes them

in as long as they pay him in labor.

They settle in assuming aliases and
keeping an eye on the disgruntled Felix.

At the dinner we meet Awa, who is deaf
and mute and immediately onto the hyena

boys, and she says to them that she will
out them if they don't let her join them.

Chaka, Rafa and mean.

We know how to sign, but nobody else does.

So it's a pretty fun little secret
conversation that makes everybody annoyed.

Uh, That's what they get for
not learning how to sign.

Jeremy: I gotta love like hardcore
mercenaries that also all know.

Language.

Emily: they all know sign language,
they know multiple languages cuz

they're speaking French, but they
also speak Spanish with Felix.

Yeah,

Emmanuel: Saying, well, we're told
that his wool off is terrible.

Jeremy: some mo off

Ben: guys are amazing.

I want so many stories of them.

seriously the, fuck, they
deserve a whole franchise.

Emily: So also at dinner we have Omar's
assistant, whose name I can't remember

Jeremy: There is a cop and there is a
um, the assistant, one of them is named

Solema and one of them is named Soliman,

Emmanuel: Yes.

Jeremy: remember which one is it.

Emily: Oh, so they're both solo.

Okay.

I was wondering about that cuz I'm
like, the spelling changed cause

it's reading the, the subtitles.

So yeah, he's a, there's Omar's assistant
and then there's the artist couple that

are here because, you know, they're taking
a wilderness sabbatical or something.

And Dakar Police captain uh, suleman.

Between Suleman and Awa, the Beba is
looking less than ideal, but Chaka

insisted they have to stay here until they
get their fuel and patch kit the next day.

Everybody in the camp pulls
lots to determine what their

communal tasks will be.

I mean, we as on delivery
duty to Loca Village.

Rafa and Awa.

Go look at birds.

Suleman and Felix go tend to the
mangrove fields and Omar and Shaka ride

horses into the big cities to shoot po.

Poachers in the ass with BB guns.

. I want more about this, like
their whole campaign to just

shoot poachers in the ass.

I fucking love it.

Emmanuel: It's also like
an early side quest in rpg.

Like you just go do this.

Important and yet also
kind of trivial task

Emily: yeah.

This, so it's, it's interesting.

So as everybody's doing their side
quest in this very special episode our

reveals that she wants to join the hyenas
because she regards them as folk heroes.

Suleman reveals that he knows exactly
what is going on with Felix and the

hyenas, and he threatens Felix to help him
apprehend the hyenas in return for asylum.

Jeremy: He Also reveals that he has
a whole like group of guys waiting

outside the village somewhere to

Emily: yes, he's got backup.

Ben: Even a horror movie cop will find
out how useful cops are in horror movies.

Emily: um, Yeah.

So mean.

We meanwhile is at the Deals village
and he finds it suss as hell and

there's spooky ghosts running
around and dudes with their ears

cauterized and vague mention of a
quote unquote agreement with Omar.

And, you know, you don't have to be a
mystical, like, wisdom based character

to know that this shit is whack.

So back at camp everybody
reconvenes, the hyena boys are

like, we need to leave because, and
then they gesture at everything.

Chaka continues, continues to
insist that they stay, but binds a

against so she doesn't out them.

Now dinner again, things become tense
as Chaka begins to recount his trauma.

Apparently Omar was a military officer
officer who abused Chaka and tried

to force him into Chemical Child
Soldier Chaka removes his gloves to

show his R brand, which marks him
as a uh, part of this child soldier.

I, I can't really say program
cuz that it's slavery.

Ben: Yeah, it's, it's just child slavery.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And i, I do wanna say they are explicit
in this movie that there is sexual

assault involved in this relationship as

Emily: yes.

Jeremy: Defi, he says he
defiled him every night.

Emily: yeah.

Ben: And yet this fucking ending,

Emily: yeah.

So, yeah.

And.

Ben: Get to.

Emily: Not only was the corporal abusing
him, but also, you know, he's forcing him

to become one of these child soldiers.

You know, and, and
keeping him in shackles.

So there's a lot of, there's a lot of
really, really rough imagery here and

there's a lot of really serious shit.

A lot more serious than you'd think
from a, a movie where I'm like, oh, and

one's a castor, one's a, one's a tank.

But, but it works.

Chaka then kills the corporal, a k a
Omar, with a gun that Chaka stole from him

when he escaped back when he was a kid.

Jeremy: Tim Many times.

Emily: yes, he, there's a lot of
shooting and just everything goes nuts.

Now.

Rafa and me, we mean, we now realize
that the whole reason that they are

here is because Chaka sabotaged her
plane in order to enact this revenge.

Sue Leman tries to arrest them and
calls her backup, but it turns out

that Chaka bribed the cops to fuck off.

So it's all on them, baby.

Jeremy: Gave the cops one brick
of gold and they abandoned

their commanding officer in the

middle of the desert.

Emmanuel: What are their plans there?

You can't like make change
for one another, like

Emily: I don't know, the, but those
bricks of gold were fucking cartoon sized.

Like, I don't know how they managed
to get that plane off the ground,

and those things were so fucking big.

Ben: It's like cupcakes in school.

Like don't bring it unless you have
enough in the class for everyone in

the class, you better have like one
gold brick for every police man there.

Emily: He gave them, I believe, just the
one gold brick, but I mean, I don't know.

Gold is soft.

Maybe they cut it up with
like a knife or something.

I don't know how gold works.

Ben: I, y'all, I, I really think
of all the things like that really

made me suspend my disbelief.

Police taking bribes was not one of them.

Emily: oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Even when it was like a giant
bar of gold that was the size of

like a literal piece of masonry.

Ben: If this movie had told me that
these police had abandoned their

post having been offered just a giant
kit cat bar, I would've believed it

Emily: Yeah.

For real.

Ben: at least, that you can
break off and make for every.

Emily: So as this hell breaks
loose, literal hell breaks loose.

Because now night becomes day
and humanoid swarms of insects

and embers descend on the camp.

Felix suddenly starts hemorrhaging
blood and dies from something.

Everyone gathers in a nearby cabin trying
to figure out what the hell happened to.

Felix Omar's lucky immediately goes
nuts and reveals that they're haunted

by the spirits at the bin Oak,
according to the curse of Sierra Bon.

The important thing is that if
you hear them, you will die.

so you can't hear them opposite,
quiet place as Ben said.

So Omar is keeping them at bay
somehow, but now that he's dead,

the contracts are null void.

The spirits are here to fuck everyone up.

Meanwhile, AWA freezes herself.

She is resilient against
the spirits with being deaf.

So she encounters chalk out in the
open as he goes to find everyone some

construction headsets to, cancel noise.

The Walkman he is using to suppress
the spirit noise is only so effective.

He almost gets gut, but Awa
shoots it and saves him because

apparently you can shoot a swarm.

Ben: Shockingly scalable.

H of Fly Demonn people.

Jeremy: Now, I, I do wanna point
this out because I actually caught

this coming back around the second

Emmanuel: They talk about
this in the dialogue,

Emily: Yes.

Jeremy: they're not, they're
not just swarms, they are people

Emily: Yeah.

There's people inside there.

Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

They are the people that they saw
earlier from the village that have

their ears shut and everything.

Like they are working
for the evil spirits.

So they have these like swarms
of spirit demony things that go

around them, and they look like
weird little clouds of flies.

But they do very effectively
uh, hatchet them several times

throughout the, the thing.

Emmanuel: I can't handle a single fly on
me, let alone this like pigpen ass swarm.

Like I cannot.

Ben: they work on Silent Hill,
like enemy logic, where yes, it is.

A night marriage like demonn out of
your like worst fears, but also it

is susceptible to blunt force trauma.

Emmanuel: Well, I mean that whole
section right, has the stealth feeling.

There's even a chest high wall
that suleman is like crouching

beneath as one walks by.

Like it.

It is very video game logic.

Ben: I love Rafa hiding behind
the skinniest palm tree.

Emily: I mean, it works for 'em, but
that's another thing is that these

guys are, when they're maneuvering,
it's a lot more military or they're

not like, hiding most of the time.

Like they're just kind
of, slicing the pie or

whatever.

I don't know what that

Jeremy: I do enjoy their sort of like
tactical assault on these, these creatures

because it's like, oh, they're just dudes.

You can sneak up on 'em.

And like when it's Rafa and Chaka working
together, they're like, all right, you go.

And then I'll hit 'em from behind.

And then at one point there's just
a, just so man and , like Rafa

just sort of shoves him out in the
street and the thing goes after him.

So Rafa hits it from behind.

Emily: Well, and, the rules here
for these creatures is that,

if you hear them, you will die.

And the people inside or, you know,
whatever mass there is inside of

the, the swarm is solid and tangible.

There's like a human thing in there.

So if, as long as you stab it
in the right spot, you know,

Jeremy: Yeah.

The, the humans inside the swarms
are separate from the actual demons

or spirits or whatever it are, which
are sort of all, all around them.

Emily: Sort of like a demonn aura.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben: I, not that it's a major point,
but I do think the humans inside of them

could have been more clear visually,

Emmanuel: Yeah, I think that's fair.

Emily: Yeah.

Anyway, so, one of the, the swarm zombies
gets shot or the swarm warriors, I

don't know exactly what to call them.

The swarm

people, s warriors, that's good.

Uh, Come out to play.

So now they all gotta get
the fuel in the resin.

And get to the chopper.

I mean, plane and leave

Ben: you know, you wanna
say it in the voice?

Emily: chopper.

They, they go there.

Yeah.

And then, but now they split up.

They have to split the party because
the fuel and stuff is in the village.

So, Suman, Omar's, Lockie, Rafa
and Chaka tried to the village in

ATVs while the artist Couple OA
and mean we hold down the Fort.

The village is all fucked.

They find the supplies, but also
they find a ton of Olas children.

Sure.

Which is the Village Olas
branded to become soldiers.

And they're branded the same
way that Chaka was with the r.

Chaka frees them and he lets them
tear Omar's lackie apart after the

Omar's Lackie admits to being a, an
accomplice to their involvement and

whatever Diabol, diabolical method
Omar, he was using to keep the

entity at bay, What is the entity?

Well, we'll never know because
dude gets torn apart too quickly.

Ben: Now, it obviously doesn't happen,
but was anyone else real worried that

when they let those kids out and the
kids, none of them had headphones

on, that they were all just gonna
immediately just start hearing the

death noise and just die immediately?

Emmanuel: Absolutely.

Again, it's a video game.

This is your escort mission.

Like why would you run
into the cloud of demons?

Could you not cover your ears?

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

they don't say why that isn't the case.

Presumably there's, you know, some
sort of protection or their death

or, or something and they, you
know, are able to get through there.

Um, but

Ben: to this movie's credit, they
do say that they are apparently,

like the currency Omar was using
to keep the demons placated.

So I figured the demons had.

Interest in, you know, whatever
he wanted with the children.

Like it just wasn't interest,
interested in just purely killing them

Emmanuel: You're not
gonna destroy good money.

Jeremy: either some sort of human
sacrifice system or, they are being you.

Used as soldiers like these, you
know, guys that are currently

running around in swarms of flies

Emily: Yeah.

There was.

Ben: there,

Emily: About a big old tree too.

Like there was a big evil tree in the
middle of the, of the village that

they were like, well, that's fucked up.

And they didn't really talk about it.

Jeremy: And did you ever
seen a tree like that, Emily?

Sometimes you just see a tree like
that and you're like, that's fucked up.

That tree's definitely evil.

Emily: Yeah, no, I've
seen fucked up trees.

I've seen evil trees, and I know that
you shouldn't cut them down because

that's how fucking Heus gets out.

And he'll take over all of
those, the leveler, and then

you're just, you're done.

You saw what happened on
fucking UAD planet anyway.

so uh, Omar's lackey is torn
apart by the children, and

Chaka is like, yeah, get 'em.

But we don't know what
it, what the entity is.

Ben: I honestly assumed it was
the big thing that destroys the

earth and cabin in the woods.

Emily: Okay.

Um,

Ben: Not, but that's where
my dumb dumb brain went.

Emmanuel: I went to
Smoke Monster from Lost

Ben: Ooh, that's a good one.

Currently on my in season six of
my lost rewatch and last season is,

it's a lot better knowing what it is.

Emily: oh, I don't know what I've
never seen lost, but I got it spoiled.

I'm sorry.

All right.

Jeremy: Would it be funny for
me to pretend like I've never

actually heard of that show?

Just be like,

Emily: lost.

I'm lost

Ben: I'm waiting to meet like the teenager
who's never met, lost, and I'm just gonna

have a really cliche, like I'm old moment.

Emily: I've been having that
my whole life, but okay.

Chuck and Rafa just make it out.

Suleman gets got by the spirits
as well as the other soleman.

If your name Soleman in
this movie is not you,

Jeremy: you're not making
it back to the main

Emily: Yeah, yeah.

You suleman failed.

But anyway, so, meanwhile
back at camp, the spirits have

consumed the artist couple.

I was immune, however, she can't
hear mean we is using his talents

to trap the spirits within
him so the others can escape.

But before they do uh, Chaka and
Rafa embrace him and he signs to

them to kill him before the spirits
can stricken but loyal to their

friend, they do and it's fucking sad.

But you know, pour went out for
mean we, because he was a real one.

So with all this, they have
enough time to get to the boat

and sail back to the plane.

Now Chaka still has his phobia and
he struggles to get in the water and

he doesn't have mean way's Medicine.

But still manages to get in there.

But as they cross the delta, he starts
really hearing those spirits despite

the headphones and he is overcome
with the visions of his trauma.

And we are returned to , the scene at
the very beginning of the movie, which

is a very like 2001 space odyssey kind of
arrangement with the moon in the sun and

the, horizon, but instead of the earth
and a space baby it's a traumatized kid

with a gun in one hand and a shackle in
the other trying to cross a big river.

It's actually pretty poignant, but
we see that in this escape from his

past, he is dragged down into the
river by the spirits of the dead.

Not sure if this is literal,
but literal spirits of the dead.

Do try to drag him down from
the boat with alwa and Rafa

Jeremy: Well, they grab Rafa first
and he gets up outta, you know,

in the boat even though he is
terrified , to shoot what appears to

be uh, his, his previous tormentor,
Doing, doing crazy Demonn voice,

trying to pull Rafa out of the boat.

Emily: Yeah.

So the, the dead Zombified Omar
pulls him down into the water.

And despite Rafa and ALA's efforts,
they cannot save him, and he is gone.

The palette light fades to the light of
living day as Rafa and Awa sail through

a final cloud of Unquiet spirits closing
the film as it opened with a's voice.

Who she doesn't speak, but she does
do narration, and she says that

revenge is like a river who's bottom.

We only reach when we drown.

And that's the movie Ben.

Ben: Why I'm not a particular fan of
Descending is that this movie, I guess

especially with that final narration and
well, hey, the spirit's like grabbing Rafa

and then like Chaka falling in and it's
got big energy of just the Demonn energy

being like, yep, fucking meant to do that.

I only grabbed her off.

So you'd follow in Chaka.

This was definitely the plan.

So I like the, I like the winging
and but for real yeah, I find

it really hard to go along with.

It was wrong to get revenge on the
man who is trafficking children.

Emily: I don't think that's, I mean,

Emmanuel: think it's a moral judgment?

Jeremy: That wasn't how it struck me.

Emmanuel: I just took it as
this is the price of her.

Like, it's right.

If you, you, you haveing
two graves, right?

It's the, the consequences of
seeking life of retribution are

that you are also plausibly the
consequence would be your own death.

Not that it's a moral judgment,
that you shouldn't do it, but

just be prepared to die yourself.

Emily: Yeah, and

Ben: I think that all works in a version
where like, oh, he kills the guy at the

dinner and now they're fucked and they're
surrounded by police and there's gunfire.

Like, I don't know.

It's like there's just that level of like,
oh, all these deaths are because Chaka

had to kill, but hey, it's not like, it's
like, ooh, a retired child trafficker

and like he's not preventing anything.

Like this guy is actively
trafficking dozens of children.

Like objectively heroic to fucking get
rid of this guy and save those kids.

So

Jeremy: No.

Ben: like I feel like that kind of
undercuts the vengeance as bad, but

also just that, again, I think it
would've been more effective if it had

stayed kind of human or, I think the
movie that really nailed the tone that

I think would've benefited this is
like, tigers are Not afraid, which was

like mystic, which was like a little
more realism in its magical realism.

Emily: Yeah.

Emmanuel: Well, the

magic

has

consisted.

Ben: like, if I just had more of a
sense of like, Shaka inflicted violence

and now he's gonna lose his own life,
or the life of his friends or innocent

people are gonna get caught in the
crossfire, I feel like it would all

feel, I would buy it more, or I would
feel it more if it stayed human.

And when like, well now everyone's
gonna die because you didn't know he

was holding back a bunch of demons.

I'm like, well, Demonn demons aside,
this vengeance plan worked out great.

Emily: Well, I mean, it

Ben: and was good, and
he saved a bunch of kids.

Well, if the demons hadn't shown
up, then it would've worked great.

Jeremy: I wanna say I, I think like
my interpretation coming out of this

and the first time I, I felt like I
didn't really know what to make of

the ending and watching it this time.

I think the way that this curse is I don't
know, personified or, or dealt with in

this story, feels to me very much like
the idea of, of curses in Japanese horror,

where it's not so much like a thing that's
tied to a dude or a demonn necessarily.

Th this like entity is like the
collective suffering of the people

who have been here, of like, you know,
this place is fucked up because a

whole bunch of people got killed here.

And so like, it's always
gonna be fucked up.

Like, You know, he, he kills
this obviously bad guy, this guy

who absolutely deserved to die,
but like, he can't get away.

And that's like the same thing I think
they're showing with him as a, a kid is

that, you know, even as he's escaping
this place, like it's pulling him back.

Like he is still connected to it.

And it may be, we don't know how long,
or I'm not sure how long, 10, 15, 20

years between these two timelines.

But like it, he still had this
pull back to here all this time.

And, you know, he, he does kill
Omar, but he's still can't get away.

Like, you know, he's still
so tied to this trauma.

And this place is still so, fucked up
and cursed for what's happened here

that like, you know, it's still going
to claim him whether or not he has,

you know, successfully killed the guy
that he blames for all of his trauma.

And, and rightfully so.

Ben: You know what?

I will give you that interpretation of
the ending, especially in his trauma over

water, which he doesn't really overcome.

He doesn't have.

A big moment of needing to
go into open water, and thus

symbolically overcoming his trauma.

He just, he has to be picked up in a
boat, like he doesn't overcome the trauma.

Jeremy: Well he does.

Ben: him right to the end.

Jeremy: He does stand up in the boat to
save his friend, like to help his friend.

He is able to overcome it enough to get
to his feet and shoot at this thing,

which is way more like he couldn't get
on the boat while awake previously.

Emily: Yeah.

Like he had to pass out on that boat in
order to like, actually just survive the

journey, you know, just with his buddies.

All my thoughts are sort of like all
in a ball right now about it, but

there's a lot of cultural context here.

Uh, There's a lot going
on with the characters.

This is just the tip of an iceberg of
a story that I think could have been

articulated a little bit more elegantly,
like in terms of how they express the

spirits, you know, the unquiet dead and
how they relate that to the trauma of

the people living here in this land.

When we talked about, Nope,
we talked about stories that

are about like racial trauma.

and that, you know, there's a lot of
stories out there that are about racial

trauma, and now we see these movies,
like we see a movie in Africa, and you

know, as of as a like Western viewer of
it, I feel like there's, especially in a

movie like this, it starts out with like
a battle with a bunch of dead people.

You know, we get this very brutal
side of the country that, you know,

automatically is about trauma.

And, you know, like, I'm not, not talking
about all of Africa, but in this case

the, the coup that occurred in um, Guinea.

Yeah.

Ben: in 2003, which again, this movie,
you know, this movie could have,

been vague, but it chose to ground
itself in very specific conflicts

Emily: yeah, so, the, because there's
so much war and strife that is discussed

at like, the get-go of this movie.

I don't know if I'm projecting that on
the whole situation with the unquiet dead

being the result of some kind of racial
trauma because they talk about the, the

curse and the people who once lived in
Salom and all that kind of stuff, which I

looked up and it's not very, there's not
a lot of information about that curse.

And I don't know if that's just something
that was made up for the film or if it

had comes from, the greater culture.

That's something that I missed.

And so there's something there.

And you also have this very complex story
about a bunch of guys who are mercenaries

who are working against the military
to save a drug, Lord, , who was also

responsible for killing a lot of people.

And you know, you, you could tell that
they have no respect for this drug,

Lord, but they are taking the money.

And in this case it's a means to an
end for Chaka to get back to bail ba.

Ben: God, mercenaries with
a code of honor is a trope.

I'm here for all day, every day.

Emily: yeah, but we don't know, like for
sure, because you see them like putting

their cards on civilians or something.

But then later Chaka says that
they don't kill civilians.

So I feel like there's a lot of
information that's presented, but

it's not really presented in a way
that I think is, is super clear.

And I think that's where

Ben: Well, he says they were already
dead, so I interpreted that as them.

Just taking credit for a massacre
that already happened and just like,

just to raise their reputation and my.

Emmanuel: so we've been talking about
this idea of this underlying trauma

to sort of, you know, these children
have been secreted away and Chaka

in his own past has this trauma.

I think what's kind of interesting
about Chaka is when you first see

him, He seems really cool and on
top of things and super capable.

And he is.

And we don't really realize
that there's some trauma there

until he gets to the water.

And even Matt isn't clear.

It's just like, why do
you need to knock him out?

And then there, I think there's a
throwaway line of like, oh, he still

can't cross water or something like that.

But Baba itself, before you realize
how ous things are, seems almost like

this little like, you know, communal.

Paradise.

Like it's a neat little hotel where
like, yeah, you can stay here.

You just gotta, you know, pick your chores
up and you wanna have a beer, that's fine.

You just gotta clean the bar.

But it is much like chaka kind of hiding
this trauma, hiding this thing underneath

the surface that you don't really realize.

And I think that's kind of interesting.

Uh, The other thing that I kept
coming back to is, it seems to me that

there were two quotes about revenge.

There's the one that is, they keep
saying, they say it a couple different

times in a movie, but it starts out here.

They say revenge is like a river
whose currents direct your actions.

And then they follow that by saying,
we say revenge is a river whose

bottom, you only reach for new drown.

And it, I couldn't, I, it was difficult
for you to discern if those were

two parts of the same quote or two
different ideas regarding revenge.

Like, this is their idea about revenge.

And it's, you know, it
leads you down this path.

It's a current you can't ignore, but ours
is just, you know, you get to revenge

when you yourself succumbed to it.

I, I, I, that's the thing that
I just kept thinking about.

Emily: Yeah.

Now I feel like that through all of
this information that we're getting,

and especially like the river, the
whole river imagery and the, the

river idea, I think is really cool.

And I think that makes sense to me.

It's just I feel like the spirits of
the Unquiet dead or whatever, they

are kind of come outta left field.

Like there's not a lot that
would prepare us in this movie.

Like this.

Your, your comment about two movies
in a trench coat is pretty on target

because, you know, you're seeing
this guy who's like, you know, this

big guy in a trench coat and then
he opens it up and then there's like

a weird zombie thriller in there.

It's such a small part of the movie and it
doesn't feel as like, strongly connected.

And I think, you know, that's
where it looses it for me.

I still can kind of put it together
and I still think it's a cool idea.

I just don't think that the, the execution
was clear enough for me to really

Ben: that's what I'm saying, like
it, it's enough of a dark, disturbing

twist for this guy to be a child
soldier raising like human trafficker.

You don't need to throw, he
found the entity on top of it.

Jeremy: I will say, this is gonna sound
kind of like a knock on the movie, but

it's quite the opposite in that this is
the rare horror movie that I wish was

a little bit longer like, , there's a
lot of horror movies that I'm like, you,

you just could have been, it could have
been 84 minutes, it could have been 88

minutes, it could have been 90 minutes.

This one is 84 minutes.

It is in and out, and it does a
lot of shit in that 84 minutes.

It could have been a, you
know, an even hundred.

Ben: Like I, I agree.

Like, because once it shifts to
horror, it moves really fast, I think.

But I think before that, like
there's like, like an hour

50 like thriller in there.

Emmanuel: What we need is a prequel
mini-series that's showing that they teach

witcher style jobs like this all the time.

This is just their thing.

Emily: Yeah.

Like I wanna see them use the,
they have papain, we right.

Emmanuel: how you joined up with them.

Emily: Yeah.

And like, you know, he's got his methods
and things like that, and I think that

it'd be cool to have some Nicole or
like, some spiritual elements there.

I think that would be really interesting
if they did a magical realism thing where

there's, you know, it's not literal.

And I think that's one of

Ben: Yeah, that's magic realism.

That's, Ugh.

I just, I wish so hard.

It had leaned harder into the magic.

Real.

Into magic realism.

Emily: yeah.

Although the, the day, the night, becoming
day and having like the weird soft light

of the, like, spirit day or whatever,
the spirit realm really was cool.

Like, I, I hadn't

Jeremy: Yeah.

Emily: before.

Ben: Agreed.

Emily: And the way that they, leaned
into that I thought was really cool,

and how they, like, when they sailed
out of that zone, the color returned.

You know, there was some
cool stuff like the.

Crazy soldiers.

I think there's also something to do.

Like there's, there is something of
a an allegory with child soldiers

and sacrificed to evil, these kids
are sat, like literally, like,

these kids are sacrificed, you know,
and they're treated like fodder.

They Are currency.

Ben: I mean, Chaka describes the shack.

He was kept in like
explicitly as like a cattle.

Emily: yes,

Jeremy: yeah,

It is made of like rough sheet metal
and it got super hot during the day.

Emily: Freezing at night.

Jeremy: yeah, I, I wanna go back a
little bit to, to something uh, that

that I think both Emily and Emmanuel
have brought up a little bit and that,

like, you know, there's, there's plenty
of things to be said about the plot and

whether or not some of the horror stuff
works, but I think one of the things that

seems, that feels almost revolutionary
to me about this movie is the, like

caring and compassionate masculinity
of these action heroes these are dudes.

Who, like, specifically fucking Raha
runs around with a fucking cleaver.

Like this is not a,
like an elegant killer.

He's not a dude who, you know,
he, he's not wearing gloves.

He's a dude that's, you know,
running around, fucking people up.

But like not only do they not make a
big deal about either of them being

like, oh, midnight, he does fucking
magic, magic is scary and this is

bullshit, or something like that.

But like, they all, they
all believe in each other.

They all care about each other.

And that moment after, like, Chaka
shoots Omar, and like he says, everything

that's happened to him and like, Rafa
who to this point has been sort of

like a goofy longhead in the group.

Like goes, you know, forehead to forehead
with him and is like, Hey man, I am sorry.

I'm sorry for what happened to you.

Like, that's fucked up

Emily: Yeah.

The most, the most intimacy.

They hold each other
and the, visceral tears.

Like it, you know, I've seen plenty
of movies where somebody like

stoically sacrifices themself.

Ben: I love the three way like head bump.

They do.

Jeremy: yeah.

Ben: And God, and when Chaka and
Rafa, when they shoot min, we like,

the word that comes to mind when I
think about that scene is tender.

Like there's a 10.

Like it's not a badass sacrifice.

It's a, it's an emotion.

Like it's a tender moment of goodbye.

Emily: Yeah.

And these guys are really
really fucked up about it.

You know, they're crying
and they're sobbing.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And I I I think.

Emily: a sip of her lip.

Jeremy: That, that compassion that
they have for each other I is,

is something that I don't feel
like I see in action movies ever.

Like,

Emmanuel: can't think of a horror movie.

I've seen it in between two dudes like.

Jeremy: they can be friends, they can
care about each other, they can be bros.

But like that like moment of
just being like, Hey man, that

thing fucked up, that happened.

He was fucked up and you didn't
deserve it, is like something that

feels revolutionary in this case.

And I think then adding to that, like
having a male action hero lead who

explicitly has experienced sexual
trauma also feels un like very unusual,

very revolutionary to me because I
mean, that's, that's not unusual at

all with female leads and, you know,
suspenses or action horrors or things

like that, but like for a, a masculine
male character to explicitly have

gone through that is very unusual.

Emmanuel: Well, they don't tie it
also directly to his badassery, right?

It is, it is pure trauma.

It should not have happened.

It is a thing that he has not gotten over
and they just sort of leave it at that.

It's not, he becomes this force
of, you know, revenge and anger.

It's just, it's still living.

He hasn't over, he still dealing with it.

Emily: And you know, they're
initially pissed off about how he,

manipulated and s sabotaged the
mission and everything like that.

But then once they fi figure
it out, they're like, damn.

You know?

And even though like night has become
day and there's a fucking ton of

monsters outside, they still have
the time to be like, let's talk.

that's a more important thing
is each other, you know?

And you don't, you don't see that
kind of communication even like with

characters like the, I I feel like a
lot of horror movies are so preoccupied

with being funny or quirky these days
that you don't see that kind of genuine.

just

Jeremy: Love, like these
guys Love, each other.

That's a, that's a thing you don't
see much in these sort of horror

or these sort of action movies.

I feel like

Emily: yeah.

Cuz there's romance.

You have people who have romance
and then you have like the stoic,

like, I'll love you forever.

Or you have like a very special episode
where they talk it out, you know,

you don't have this vulnerability.

Ben: There is more true affection shown
between these characters in an hour 25

movie than in all three expendables films.

Jeremy: Hmm.

Emily: Yeah.

And that's another thing about this movie
is that it's so stylish at the beginning

where like it introduces the characters,

like they're action heroes.

Emmanuel: Well, they're wearing
like Gilly suits in the beginning,

and you still get this style right.

You still see the gloves, you still
see the shoes, you still see the locks.

Even though everything else is
covered up, you can tell them apart.

Emily: yeah,

Ben: I mean, just the three
of them working in unison.

They're like, fuck, they're like
metal gear solid bosses when they

drop in in that opening scene,

Emily: And when they're fighting
the zombie things, whenever they're,

they're fighting the, like swarm
ears or whatever, like they're,

Ben: again,

Emily: moving as a unit.

Ben: whole fucking prequel,
franchise full of action and shit.

Emmanuel: Six seasons in a movie

Ben: Give it to me like
fucking, like again, the hyena's

anime, like studio bones.

What's you up?

Emily: Yeah.

trigger even.

As long as I figure out how
to draw back black people.

But the

Ben: yeah.

Oof.

Oof.

Emily: Hey, Japan.

Ben: Dragon Ball finally figured it out.

Good for you.

Dragon Ball.

Super.

Manga

Emily: it took them too many years.

Like here.

Emmanuel: They've had
Namekians the whole season.

Emily: uh, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ben: Look, I get the coding, but
at the end of the day, Piccolo and

Martian man, hunter are both green
no matter what actors you get.

Emily: We don't have to, we don't have
to do substitutions, guys, you know,

it's okay to have actual black people.

No, that, I don't mean to be
dismissive of all of Japan.

There's a lot of really fucking
awesome stuff and, you know, mixed race

Jeremy: We all know that you are
not dismissive of all of Japan,

Emily: Oh, thank you.

I'm, I just, I have a
lot of thi feelings about

Ben: Nah, that's the quote, not
to be dismissive of all of Japan.

Jeremy: but I

Emily: progressively horrified.

But seriously,

like,

Ben: new slogan.

Emily: Gosh, I'm just gonna pat myself
on the, my back for being so woke.

But seriously, . I feel like when I
first saw the, these characters, I

thought that this might've been based
on like a, a comic that had been

published like a bond published comic.

This, especially the fact that it
was in French and stuff like that.

And you have a lot, there's a lot of
people working that are publishing

out of like France and Spain and
Italy that are people of mixed race

people from KO Diva and, and like
North Africa and stuff like that.

And I think it would make a fantastic
comic if they haven't already done it.

Like think of the, you know, the
cinematic quality of this movie

and the, the stylishness of it.

I feel like you could have a ton of these
big full color watercolor bond bik books

about the hyenas if there isn't already.

In fact you guys all talk, I'm gonna
check on, on Stuart Ang right now.

Emmanuel: Well, I just wanna see how
Rafa becomes Rafa and how min we becomes.

Min, we right.

We.

.Even the gap between CHA'S
trauma and becoming chocolate, the

hyena, there's a lot there, right?

Like the when do you become this badass?

The face of the group, like
that's really fascinating.

Ben: where's like their one
shot comic book Origin stories.

Emmanuel: Yes.

Do it yesterday.

Ben: Where did Rafa get his Versaces?

I know they must be emotionally
important the way all articles

of clothing are in prequels.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And I, I think like even with, you know,
I, I said well I was looking forward to

a sequel and they don't really leave room
for that at the end, but I feel like even.

Even the sequel where, you know, you've
got Rafa training alwa to be the,

the new, you know, version of this.

I mean, I would watch that too.

Like

she's,

Ben: did really think it was going to
be like, okay, Minu, Minu is gonna die.

Chaka and Rafa are gonna survive, and
then AUA was gonna be the new third hyena.

Emmanuel: Or

Ben: I definitely

Emmanuel: Rafa

and they

just continue their
inventing the afterlife.

They're just undead mercenaries.

Emily: Oh, but, and they come
back and it's like a drive angry

situation where they drive angry
out of, out of hell or whatever.

Jeremy: They die and then they drop in
the hell and take out the devil and,

Emily: yeah, they

Ben: I like this idea of them
becoming like almost like B P R T.

Emmanuel: Yes,

Emily: Yeah.

Oh my

God.

Yes.

Ben: I'm very into it.

It's like supernatural, heroic,
supernatural soldiers for hire.

Emily: and also in Africa.

And like, tell us where
stories about Africa.

You know, they don't all have to
be about war, you know, it's this

war's important storage, child
soldiers support story to tell.

But like there's a lot.

It's a fucking continent.

Ben: Look, sometimes there can be a
chapter where, you know, they help a

little girl prepare for the talent show

Emily: my God.

Ben: and they do a whole dance number
at the end, and it's just delightful.

Emily: And they're all
in like costumes and

Emmanuel: Say the hiatus
are her backup dancers,

Emily: yeah.

Ben: Like, I need the, like
hyenas, I need the b, the like the

movie where it's the hyenas, but
it's also three men and a baby.

Jeremy: I was thinking with the, the
talent show and everything, I was

like, oh, I think you're describing
the Baymax Disney Plus Show.

Emily: or it's like psycho goman

Ben: sounds delightful.

I should watch

Jeremy: Yeah.

Everybody should watch the
Baymax Disney Plus Show.

Go.

That's, that's my recommendation.

The episodes are like five minutes
a piece and they're fantastic.

Ben: Oh, that's how that.

size, fun.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Baymax uh, helps the girl figure
out her period, so, you know.

Ben: I will go on record.

Uh, Big Hero six is a Solid, is a
very solid Disney animated movie, and

I think it's definitely underrated.

Emily: I I would not disagree.

Ben: Glad we all like big Hero six.

Emily: Um, So do we think
this movie's feminist.

Emmanuel: I think it's feminist.

Emily: I, I think it's not, not feminist.

You know, I do like AWA does
have some cool qualities.

She could definitely be like, have more
agency and not be like bound and gagged.

But she is bounded gags because they're

like, she's the biggest threat.

That's true.

That's true.

So, you know, I'm gonna say it's not,
not feminist, but like, it's hard to have

a movie about three dudes be feminist.

Jeremy: I was thinking
about this because I was.

I don't know.

Is it, is it feminist or are they okay?

Is it all right that like, Chaka
beats up the only like major woman

in this story and ties her up?

And I was like, well, he treats
her exactly the same way.

He put a guy in the same situation.

I think so, like, you know, she's
gonna blow his cover and he really

wants to kill this guy who he's been
dreaming about killing for almost

his entire life at this point.

Emmanuel: Chaka doesn't see Jim.

Emily: Yeah.

And honestly, chaka, is helping her by not
like exposing her to the gunfire, although

it's, it's fucking violent and horrible.

But also she's not like, she's definitely
not afraid of them because she immediately

goes out and is like, you know, I know

you guys are like the, yeah.

Then the, and she's like, I will out.

You and I will tell everybody who
you are if you don't let me join you.

Ben: I think it's not so much that
this movie is feminist or explicitly

feminist, like you said, what I think
this movie really is, is it's very much

lacking in or almost antiox masculinity.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben: Like we, like we just talked about,
like that bond between the hyenas.

Like even Rafa, I feel like so many
movies like that character would be

like, you know, your showy, toxic guy,
gardener, machismo, or he'd just like say

some like really bad things to ua, but
like, You know, he goes up to the line,

but he never really crosses that line.

And you know, with the hys
especially, I think it's just a very

not toxic depiction of masculinity.

Emily: Yeah.

Which is interesting for a
story about three dudes who are

mercenaries that kill people

Ben: I love it.

Oh, they're such good characters.

Jeremy: Yeah, and I think it's also
definitely suggested that like while

they do things that are of questionable
morality for money, they then put

that money back into helping people.

So like,

Ben: I also took it as like, yes, they
are mercenaries, but they also only

take jobs they think are also morally
right, or at least not super wrong.

Like just getting like, you know,
escorting a drug dealer out of a country.

Emmanuel: I was gonna say, I, I think
like our alludes to that, right?

The, the jobs that they're
taking are things regarding like,

you know, revolution and, you
know, political regime changes.

Like they're getting involved in
things that, while maybe not purely

moral, they, they seem to be tied to,
you know, doing the right thing in

some convoluted sense of the word.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, I can't tell what is
going on exactly with the uh, the

Felix situation because they're,
they're really racist to that guy.

And really, and I think, you
know, that has more to do

with him being a drug lawyer.

You know, it's

Ben: I took that as like a,
you know, sometimes you just

gotta take a job for the money.

Look,

Emily: yeah.

Ben: take that

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, he Is is
explicitly Mexican and they call

him a variety of racist names.

They're mostly just dumb.

Like I Rafa definitely calls him Taco face
at one point, and I was like, that's just

what,

Ben: I shouldn't laugh

Emmanuel: not how that works.

Jeremy: that's just some, some,
real mediocre racism right there.

Emily: I mean, yes.

Ben: I like the idea of Rapha trying
to be racist, but being bad at.

Emmanuel: is too nice to be racist.

Jeremy: yeah.

I mean, usually at this point
we'd be asking about like racial

representation and social justice,
but like this movie's got that down.

I mean, partially because it is
an African made movie with African

actors, but it's also like,
interestingly, pan-African, like it

takes place across several countries.

They're from several different countries.

Um, It acknowledges all
these places separately.

So it's, it's it's sort of
interesting in that regard.

And sort of like it just flies.

our expectations for that stuff.

Emily: and because Salom is a, reserve,
there's also this whole narrative about

them, like preserving that land and how
they're there to like, keep poachers

away and all this kind of stuff and

Jeremy: I don't think that it is a
coincidence that the only uh, white

men we see in this movie are poachers.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeremy: That they have to
shoot in the ass with a BB gun.

Emmanuel: I immediate thought
of Jordan Peel ho, like no

good white people and get out.

It's just, yep.

Yep.

There come the poachers there.

Go the poachers.

Jeremy: Mm-hmm.

Emmanuel: Uh, What about disability?

One of the things I liked about this
is that they just sort of take in

kind that she's definitely like,
okay, well we'll start signing.

That's fine.

And I was trying to
think of another movie.

Other than the Quiet place, I can't
think of another horror movie where

I've seen signing, and even in the quiet
place, it's more of a plot device as

opposed to just a fact about a character.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I mean there's also Hush, which is
very specifically about a girl who

is deaf, and it's like, how does this
deaf girl do deal with a slasher?

But yeah, I, I think it's much more
rare for it to be like a, a trait

of a character within a larger story
rather than, this is a story about how

somebody survives because they are.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: I think both the prominence of
it, yet the casualness with which

it's treated, I mean, I am not
deaf, I don't know, sign language.

So, you know, the eternal caveat that
I may always be talking outta my ass.

But I think with Awa, I think honestly
think we have some of the best you

know, disabled representation that
we've ever gotten on this podcast.

Jeremy: It, it does also have the
same issue almost any depiction of

deaf people in movies does, which is
their ability to read lips is magical.

People can be facing away from them
looking at the other direction,

muttering under their breath, and they
still know exactly what they said.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, can we forgive that though,
for the sake of storytelling?

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, I, I
think in this case it's fine.

Ben: I mean, that's kind of up
there with like, just the concept

of people being knocked unconscious

Emily: Yeah,

Ben: it sure is narratively convenient.

Emmanuel: You can knock someone
out and there are no consequences.

Ben: A way to just make people be.

Not awake for a temporary amount of
time consequence, instead of every time

being like, oh my God, you've done so
much brain damage like this concussion.

They can't do an action movie now.

Are you kidding?

They need to get straight
to a neurologist.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I, I think that along with
the way that it, it deals with

trauma , is incredibly interesting.

Like the, I think where the ending
works for me is that I, I don't think

that it's saying don't get revenge.

Revenge isn't necessarily good revenge.

I don't think it's making a sweeping
statement about revenge so much as it's

saying like, yeah, you can get revenge.

well, you can't escape the trauma.

Like those things that happened to you
still happen no matter what you do.

Um,

Emily: is not gonna
make the trauma go away.

Jeremy: Yeah.

which I, I think is, is a really
interesting thing to say in what is

essentially an action horror movie.

Emily: Yeah.

I, I do think that there is a very
valid criticism of how that interacts

with ghosts with, with swarm warriors.

you know, I feel like the messaging
can be definitely clearer.

That said, for, for me personally,
it didn't take me out of it.

I just felt less like engaged with
the battle with the ghosts but what a

fun, what a fun movie to watch we did.

We wanna talk about, I mean,
I don't think we need to talk

much about any of the other

Jeremy: there's no real L G B T
representation except that in it, in

that they're not afraid of like, there's,
there's no like, weird gay panic between

male action heroes, which is a thing that
I think happens a lot with male action is

it's like, they're forced to share a room
because there aren't enough rooms there.

So like, and we, and Rafa are staying
together and there's no moment of like,

you know, don't lay too close to me, or
There better be two beds or whatever.

It's just like, cool.

It's fine.

Um,

Emmanuel: Come cuddle.

Jeremy: Yeah, which is like
a real low bar to cross.

But like, you know, like we said,
these are characters that are

affectionate and loving toward each
other without their having to be like

a no homo insertion in there anywhere,
which is uh, a nice change of pace.

Ben: It was nice to see them
embrace the, you know what,

maybe homo and maybe's, okay.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, and Prometheus
didn't make it over that bar.

Ben: Maybe the real homo was the friends
we made along the way, in which case, homo

Emily: Yes, please, homo.

Ben: That was a long train to, I
don't even fucking know where I went.

Emily: Listen, it's,
this is, this is real.

Jeremy: so I guess that comes down
to would we recommend this to you?

Should people go check this movie out?

Ben: As harsh as I have been to this
movie tonight, it still comes down.

It still does enough unique.

It's still so well shot and
directed and still is gripping

enough that I would recommend it
as much as I've had Mike Fetches.

Emmanuel: I think absolutely.

There's so much cool here and so
much that could be really neat.

I just, even fan fiction at this point.

Like I would love to just
see someone writing in this

space with these characters.

Emily: Absolutely.

I agree.

Jeremy: and you can watch this
twice in the amount it takes

to watch one avatar movie.

Ben: Oh yeah.

Fuck.

What's on A oh three?

Maybe a oh three.

Maybe Fanfic can fill
in the holes we need.

Oof.

Maybe.

Okay.

Yeah, that I, I heard, I heard it as soon
as I said A oh three Can fill our holes.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Cut

Jeremy: No, don't Cut

Ben: Cut that.

Emily: don't cut it.

Jeremy: Keep it.

Ben: Cut that.

Jeremy: Keep that.

Yeah.

I mean, you can watch this uh, two to
three times in the amount of time it

takes you to watch either Avatar movie
with, and it's by far better than that.

So I, I, I honestly haven't seen the
second one, but I'm sure it's just as bad.

Ben: I mean, it's a sequel to a movie
whose first installment I didn't.

Is it that crazy for me to
not wanna see the sequel to a

series I'm already not a fan of?

Emmanuel: Well, andwe locks
are aren't cgi, they're real.

They belong to the actor, as we've

Jeremy: yeah.

Ben: And there's no children
voiced by Sigourney Weaver.

Emmanuel: tell you what.

Ben: Oh yes.

Sigourney Weaver voices, A
chin, a teenager, an avatar too.

Jeremy: I also enjoy watching
the Unreal demo reels when those

come out, but those aren't movies
either, so whenever a new Unreal.

Engine launches.

Seeing, seeing Marcus Phoenix push
around a meat cube that really jiggles.

I'm like, wow.

That's good.

That's good stuff you're doing there.

But I don't know how, it doesn't
have to be three hours and I don't

have to go to a theater to see it.

Emily: Sorry.

I don't know why we're
talking about Avatar.

I got so dis, I was so distracted by
looking up Salem on, on a oh three.

I didn't find anything,

Ben: Aw,

Emily: I mean,

I feel

Emmanuel: now check Deviant Art.

Ben: yeah.

Emily: wanna

Ben: Fair

Emily: How about Elf?

I don't think this movie, I
don't think well, hold on

Jeremy: note, is that your recommendation
for this uh, this movie, Emily?

Alfred?

Emily: Absolutely not!

Absolutely not.

I will not.

Okay.

I'm a, so there's a, there's a book
called, I think think it's been

recommended before, but fuck it.

It's called Black Leopard Red Wolf.

And it is a really, yes.

a really interesting, weird, weird,
violent, magic queer story about

two I think they're mercenaries.

It's, it's interesting.

So, check that out.

And yeah, I think I, can I do another one?

Cuz you talked about cowboy bebo And I'm,
if, if we're gonna talk about Cup would

be about please go watch, try again.

But not the new one.

Emmanuel: Yes.

Emily: The new one.

Spoils all of the original try
again in the first episode.

So like, just watch the first one.

Ben: Ooh.

Emmanuel: I really think my
cowboy bebo thing is that

Rafa looks like jet, like this

Emily: Well, they're,
their designs are so good.

Their silhouettes.

I mean, like, I'm looking at the whole
idea of the design silhouette and those

guys have really solid silhouette,
really solid color blocking, like

even when they're all wearing the
parks, they still have like visual,

the, like we talked about with the
gloves and the dreads and everything.

I feel like you can teach a class about
design based on these three characters.

Ben: Oh, they're so fucking good.

Emily: yeah, and, you know, strong design.

wild design, very fashionable.

There's a lot of good stuff out there
and it's, it's a very anime thing, but

Ben: Like n Normally, one of the things
that that turns me off about war stories

is that failure of the silhouette test.

It's here's all these people who
wear the same uniform, so they

all have the same silhouette.

and then it's usually very functional, so
there's usually not personality or flair

or style, but these like very distinctive,
almost high fashion military outfits.

Like fucking hell yeah, all day.

Like I love these designs.

Like if this is what fucking characters
would look like in Call of Duty, I

wouldn't play that single player.

Emmanuel: Call of Duty
should let you wear.

Design your shoes

Emily: yeah.

Ben: Now that's fucking D L C

Jeremy: Emmanuel, what do you recommend?

Emmanuel: Yes.

So in looking at places that just have
something fucked up going on with them

Aaron Benson, Justin Moorehead Resolution
it's a movie they made for like $20,000.

It's this wild horror movie but it has
a stealth sequel called The Endless.

And the two of them are really
interesting and really explore places

that you probably shouldn't have
returned to, but now it's too late.

Jeremy: Awesome.

Emily: Sounds good.

Jeremy: Ben, what about yourself?

Ben: alright.

Guess do actually remember to make
a real recommendation this episode?

Yeah.

En me.

Uh, I am going to dig back into the
Vertigo Comics archives and recommend

the 25 issue Run of Unknown Soldier by
Joshua Dysart and Alberto Ponticelli.

Jeremy: good to.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: Thank you.

Which

is,

Jeremy: to this as well.

Ben: yes, very relevant to themes of
war and child set soldiers in Africa.

Emily: Yes.

Ben: So, you know, uh, really
just absolute top-notch uh,

comic book storytelling.

Jeremy: Yeah.

So I had one thing I wanted to
recommend just after seeing this movie

and another thing that recently has,
has sort of popped up in, in my head

but my, my first recommendation for
this is if you like this movie, and

especially if you like the first half
of this movie and you haven't seen

City of God that's an incredible movie.

Yeah, it is.

It's Brazilian rather than African,
but it still has the same sort of like,

Ben: of God.

Jeremy: it's good.

Ben: I should do so.

Jeremy: yeah, absolutely.

And this we talked about how stylish this
movie is, that movie's incredibly stylish.

It's got cinematography coming out, the
Wazo, like it's a beautifully well made

movie about horrible, gritty things.

You know, about growing up in
Rio and the, the gang culture

there and, and everything.

But like, it's, it's a really good movie.

That's, that's everybody.

That's it for us.

Emmanuel, before

Emily: wait,

Jeremy: oh, sorry.

Did you,

Emily: I just wanted to say one thing
because I was waiting to see if you

guys would recommend it, but there's
also a mentor bas Instagram which

I wanna recommend mentor BA 2 2 25.

That's three, twos and a five.

Mentor.

Ba, like the term Mentor and ba

Jeremy: yeah, he's, he is
the actor who plays midnight.

And he is seemingly just
really that cool in real life.

Yeah, I I threw his Instagram in the
chat while we were talking here cause

I happened to stumble across it.

That's,

Ben: Yeah.

Yeah.

He seems super fucking cool.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben: know if they wrote the
character around him or if he

just never stopped method acting
or the most likely explanation.

He's just the, is the actual most
interesting man in the world.

Jeremy: Seems like it.

All right.

With, uh, With that outta the
way Emmanuel, you wanna let

people know where they can find
you and get ahold of you online.

Emmanuel: Sure.

I'm on Twitter talking about
education stuff and books

and whatnot at e Lipscomb two

Jeremy: Fantastic.

As for the rest of us, you
can find Emily at Mega Moth on

Twitter and mega underscore moth
on Instagram and@megamoth.net.

Ben is on Twitter at Ben the Con and on
their website@benconcomics.com, where you

can pick up all their books and you can
click the pre-order link to pre-order.

L Campbell wins their weekend.

Ben's debut middle school
grade novel from Scholastic.

We're, we're super excited about it.

You should go pre-order it now cuz.

pre-orders really matter, which
is the thing you find out when

you make books and comics.

They matter intensely.

And finally you can find me on Twitter
and Instagram at j Roam five eight

and on my website@jeremywhitley.com.

And do keep an eye on that cuz
hopefully I'll have some stuff

to announce coming real soon.

So may, may even be announced by the
time this comes up, but we'll see.

Yeah.

And of course the podcast is at
progressively horrified on our

website@progressivelyhorrified.transistor.fm
and on Twitter at Prague Horror Pod.

We would love to hear from you.

We would also love for you to
rate and review this podcast

wherever you're listening to it.

And help us find new
listeners, help them find us.

We're all a big web of humanity here.

Just, you know, make sure they, make
sure they find us and we find them.

And thanks again to
Emmanuel for joining us.

This is a great chat.

I really enjoyed talking
to you about this.

Emily: Yeah.

Thanks for joining us, Manuel.

This

Emmanuel: Always happy to be here.

Thanks y'all.

Jeremy: And thanks as always to Emily
and Ben for joining me, and thanks

to all of you for joining us, and
until next time, stay horrified.