Jeremy: good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast

where we hold horror to progressive
standards that never agreed to.

Tonight we're continuing our
Asian-American and Pacific Islander

Heritage Month by talking about Pacific
Islander Director, Taika Waititi.

We'll be talking about his work sort
of broadly, but specifically about

the original film, what we do in the
Shadows, not the, not the show, we'll

probably talk about that a little bit.

But the movie uh, which he wrote and
co-directed with Jemaine Clement, also

a Pacific Islander Director and writer.

I am your host Jeremy Whitley.

And with me tonight I have
a panel of Chil and Cytes.

First they're here to challenge the
sexy werewolf, sexy vampire binary.

My co-host Ben Khan.

Ben, how are you tonight?

Ben: Dead, but delicious is
the line I'm stealing for the

title of my autobiography.

Emily: Post humus it would have to be.

Publish posthumously.

Ben: be dead inside.

Well before then.

Emily: Okay.

As somebody who is challenging the binary
of sexy werewolf and sexy vampire, this is

gonna be a movie where we need your voice.

Ben: Yes.

Look emotionally devastated,
but fuckable is a vibe.

I think I can pull off.

Emily: Okay.

Sounds good.

I'll see you at the unholy masquerade.

Jeremy: And speaking of which,
the cinnamon roll of Sino

Bites are co-host Emily Martin.

How are you tonight, Emily?

Emily: just glad that I don't have to
go to any unholy masquerades ever again.

Ben: It's more a get to.

Emily: I I don't feel compelled to.

Jeremy: No one is compelling you.

Emily: No one is, I, no, nobody's thro.

Jeremy: Yes,

Ben: So I do like how this movie themes
of the creative process and how works

of art are built upon what's come past
best exemplified when they do a lost

boys and then add a snake penis to it.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: yes, yes.

And also, before we get too deep down that
particular rabbit hole, our guest, our

friend, and the writer of the Kamikaze
Comic series, Carrie Tapper, welcome back.

Carrie, you are on mute.

Ben: So super mute.

Carrie: I would, yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

Uh, I'm really excited about coming
back and being here, and I'm really glad

that my last appearance didn't scare
you guys, send you guys screaming into

the hills of please not another book.

So

Emily: Don't worry about that.

Jeremy: you're here to do our
dark bidding on the internet.

Emily: Yes.

What are you bidding on tonight?

Jeremy: Mm-hmm.

Carrie: I am bidding on, Hmm.

I'm bidding on old books that are
at least from the 17 hundreds.

That's what I'm bidding on.

Emily: Where?

Where can I find that be a hookup.

Ben: The,

Carrie: You'll need to go to the dark side

Emily: I have to go through the duck whip.

Ben: fucking mental high five that
Taika and or Jemaine must have

given themselves when they came
up with that dark bidding joke.

Jeremy: Oh

Ben: Like that's the kind of
joke where you're just like,

Fucking we're gay in line.

Shirley, you fucking did it.

Jeremy: That's the one, that's
the one that me as a writer,

I didn't even laugh at.

I just went, nice.

Emily: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's,

Carrie: I feel like Jeremy and I had a
moment like that when we were working on a

project and he suggested a name for a city
and I was like, no, no, we can't do that.

And then Jeremy was like, but we
do, like, there's a moment where

it's like, that's too on the nose.

We can't do that.

And somebody else says, shut up.

We're doing it.

Emily: yeah.

No, go forward.

Move ahead.

Carrie: Yeah.

Jeremy: the, the basics of this
one, as we mentioned it is written

and directed by Taika Waititi and
Jemaine Clement, weirdly, at the time.

I feel like Jemaine Clement
was the bigger name, and it's

kind of switched since then.

Ben: definitely was because he was
the one who was in flight of the

Concords, which was the more well known.

Emily: was Jemaine the,
hiphop atomist or the rhs.

Jeremy: I think he's the hip hop atomist.

His rhymes are bottomless.

Emily: Oh, that's right.

Ben: Jemaine Clement, also
the sparkly crab in Moana.

Oh, roll.

I assume he will be
reprising in live action.

Carrie: No.

Ben: Just him scuttling around
on all fours of just a big

fucking shiny shell on his back.

All practical effects, baby.

Carrie: Is it weird that I wish that
they wouldn't make those anymore?

Like if they're gonna do little
live action, can they do the stuff

that they fucked up on the first
time and then redo it better?

Emily: yeah.

Or just go to like Broadway with it.

Carrie: Yeah, like I wanna
see Atlantis on Broadway.

Emily: Yeah.

Carrie: Please

Jeremy: there aren't
any songs in that show

Emily: Atlantis is cool though.

Carrie: There's some things
that need to be fixed.

That's

Ben: I want them to go all the way
back around to where we just start

getting like crazy animated remakes
where it's like, Fucking, what the

hell we're doing like full animat
2D animated Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Let's do it

Jeremy: I mean, the thing about
Atlantis is if you were to do that

in animation, it would have to be
rated PG 13 if, she's built anything

like she is in the cartoon version,

Ben: man.

Carrie: Absolutely.

Ben: I really wanna see Disney
Sink 200 million into a live

action Treasure Planet remake.

Carrie: Yeah,

Emily: Yes, I have to stick to my guns
with Atlantis because it was all the,

the character design in that movie, all
the, most of the design actually in the

movie was Mike Minola and fucking rules

Ben: Alright, what?

What if Live action Toy
story, but it's horror.

We let David f Sandberg direct it.

Carrie: Absolutely not.

Jeremy: I, I refuse.

Carrie: That is awful.

Why would you do that?

Jeremy: unless we get to see
Tim Allen's arms get ripped off.

Ben: Ye

Jeremy: And then uh, alright, so we're
not talking about Atlanta's or Toy Story.

Carrie: or Tim Allen's
arms getting ripped.

Jeremy: Uh, we are talking about what
we do in the Shadows, which it also

stars Taika Waititi Jemaine Clement
and Cori Gonzalez-Macuer uh, Jonny

Brugh and eventually a nice good size
cameo for Rhys Darby who I feel like

at this point was not nearly as big
of a name either, but, you know, has,

has since become much better known.

Ben: also turns out that thanks
to Our Flag Means Death it is now

physically impossible to put Taika
Waititi and Rhys star on screen

and for me not to 'ship them.

Carrie: Hmm.

Emily: Yeah, it's uh,

Ben: they are Alpha wolf
dandy vampire boyfriends.

Emily: Okay.

A oh three just telling you right now.

If that's not there, then I'm
commissioning some of you for exposure.

Carrie: Okay.

Jeremy: for two guys who don't immediately
on their own, have a lot of I don't know,

they're not immediately characters or
people that you're like, oh, very sexual.

As soon as you get the two of
them together, they're like,

Emily: I know,

Jeremy: there's got a thing going on here.

Emily: Taika Waititi is incredibly sexual.

Jeremy: Taika Waititi might be.

Now he was not at this
point when he was a, a

Ben: Are you telling me that

Carrie: He was a closeted.

Pansexual,

Ben: are, are you telling me
that Taika doing threesomes?

Waititi is a bit of a horny dude.

I do appre.

I do appreciate.

Jonathan Brugh uh, Deacon's, quote
unquote erotic dance for his friends.

Emily: Oh, good.

So shall I go into this recap?

Carrie: yes.

Jeremy: do do your erotic
dance for your friends, Emily.

Emily: I

will

do it.

Jeremy: which I mean, tell us the

Ben: for, for the record, Jeremy
says that and explicitly not me.

Emily: I am using the words
embarrassingly, horny in this recap.

So, um, but you know,
that's only for these

guys

now.

Ben: I mean, look, Stu, Stu
will have that effect on anyone.

Emily: That's true.

Okay, so, our recap, we start
with a very cleverly placed bony

New Zealand documentary board ient.

And the uh, explanation that every
few years in this, in this town of New

Zealand, there is an unholy masquerade.

And this is a documentary put together
for participants of that masquerade.

And we're gonna see how
they live and who they are.

And

Jeremy: specifically, this town
is Wellington, which will not be

terribly important in this movie.

Except for that.

The people who will then later be
the cast of Wellington PD will show

up in this movie as themselves.

Emily: yes.

So.

We focus on a select group
of vampires living together.

The documentary crew is protected from
their vampiric powders with various

talismans, just so we know that, you know,
the proper rules have been followed.

So, you know, this isn't
just a blood fest yet.

We meet our found family.

We have Viago Von Dorna
Schmarten Scheden Heimburg.

He is a fancy German lad and
he's played by Taika Waititi..

We have Deacon Brücke, the Less
Fancy and less German young bad

Boy played by Jonathan Brugh.

We have Vladislav The Poker, which
is he is the Dead but Delicious.

Ancient Blood, the Impaler kind
of guy played by Jemaine Clement.

And then we have Petyr.

The 8,000 year old Nosferatu
Vampire living in the basement

who is played by Ben Fran.

Not a lot of lines other than
various hissing from the guy,

but he's an important part of the
family as he is the sire of Deacon.

Ben: Some great yes and

Emily: Yeah, he is very good at hissing.

Knocks it out the park.

So we quickly established that they're
a lot more human than you might think.

These vampires, for starters, they're
petty idiots that fight over chores.

They are, as I have said,
embarrassingly, horny, very human trait.

And uh, they hang onto petty old outdated
ideas, which is also a pretty human trait.

This vampire coterie has come from central
Europe to New Zealand for various reasons.

Love political, asylum, boredom
and through their eyes we

meet the Wellington community.

Ben: Asylum, a Nazi specifically.

Emily: Yeah, yeah.

Deacon was of Nazi vampire.

We have some anachronistic ideas also,
Vladislav does suggest that they get

slaves to do their dishes but at least
they know that those ideas are outdated.

I mean, I think they're all like
400 years old at this point.

Ben: Oh, no Deacon is the uh,
bad boy who's only about 180.

the young boy.

The young boy of the group.

Emily: he young, bad boy
who has to do the dishes.

we start to see some of the local
vampires of the nightlife, and we meet

Jackie, who is Deacon's Human Familiar.

She has been tasked with
finding victims doing various

chores, mowing lawns, et cetera.

In exchange for, well, she's mostly
hypnotized, but she has also been

promised eternal life by way of
Deacon's eternal vampire kiss.

We also find out that powers
of poking and, and hypnosis at

all have been diminished lately
because of some emotional baggage.

You know, just the day in the
life, excuse me, night in the life.

Jeremy: Night in the afterlife.

Emily: thank you.

It's very important.

Our story starts more or less when
Jackie brings over some victims

for dinner including Nick, who
was a simple loser, accidentally

turned into a vampire by Petyr when
he was uh, intended to be eaten.

Two months after being turned, Nick
has returned to the Vampire House

to try to be part of the crew.

His integration as Deacon's Brood
mate is a bit rough, but the other

VAs appreciate his ability to get into
clubs, and also he has brought his human

best friend, St also meet Anton, the
uh, self-proclaimed alpha male of the

Werewolf Pack Werewolves, not Werewolves.

Who are the rivals of the Vampire House?

Stu is quickly a favorite
of the Vampire House.

He takes the news that Nick is a vampire
and the fact that vampires are real pretty

well and everyone agrees not to eat him.

He also helps introduce them to
things like the internet and texting.

Um,

Jeremy: They love Stu, but also
how much Stu is just a dude.

Emily: Yes, Stu is just a dude, possibly
a virgin, which can only mean that they

are incredibly conflicted about, I mean,
there's a lot of discipline going on

here because virgin blood is like prime

Ben: Stu is played by a real high school
friend of Taika who was told he was

just being brought on for small bit part
role, and he was not told how important

the role actually was to the movie
until he got to the actual premiere.

Emily: amazing, I did not know that.

I actually don't know a lot of
trivia about this movie because

I've been behind the scenes of this.

In a big way, but I don't
know any of these people.

I don't know.

Taika,

Ben: it it started out as a kind of comedy
performance bit, then like a short film.

Then this movie,

Emily: Yeah.

So yeah, the movie was based off a
short film called What We Do In The

Shadows Interviews with some vampires.

And that was uh, sort of a, a short
version of this from what I understand.

Ben: It started with, like, they
would go to a standup clubs with

one of them performing as a vampire
and the other also as a vampire,

but in the crowd heckling him.

Emily: that is the bus.

This is the, just the most brilliant thing
I've ever heard in my life, for real.

Like, I can't get over that.

Like, I keep thinking about
that and I'm like, what's my

Ben: But imagine being in that crowd.

We have no idea about what, what
we do in the shadows or who the

fuck a Taika Waititi is, aside from
Maybe Wait, was he Ryan Reynold's

friend in Green Lantern, which Yes.

Yes he was.

Emily: I haven't even seen Green Lantern.

But that's incredible.

Ben: crazy.

Emily: I mean, I heard about it.

Ben: This is a movie with a cast,
including Ryan Reynolds, Taika Waititi

and Mark Strong, directed by Martin
Campbell, and it is just hot garbage.

Emily: That's, that's really weird.

I mean like, just because you have
all the right ingredients says

it mean that you can make a cake.

Right?

Carrie: you can really fuck it up.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: These were some uh, great tastes
that did not taste great together,

Emily: Too bad.

But anyway, back to our vampires.

Uh,

Ben: Which is a great taste.

Emily: Yes, the great ta It's
Stu, I'm sure is a great taste,

but they all exercise incredible
discipline and decide not to eat him.

So now with the new found power of the
internet, Vigo start stocking his crush.

Crush.

The now elderly Catherine Nick starts
spreading around the fact that he's a

vampire causing conflict in the group.

He then begins to feel some regret
regarding his new state of being as he can

no longer imbibe human food that is chips.

And Jackie is duly pissed that Nick is
now a vampire instead of her real intense

consequences do occur as Nick's loose lips
have caused Petyr's death due to a vampire

hunter house invasion turned fatal.

Sunlight accident.

Rest in peace, Petyr.

Deacon then tries to kill Nick and the
subsequent racket alerts to the police.

That is Officer O'Leary.

And Officer Minogue.

Fortunately, the vampires barely
managed to escape a citation

with the CN use of hypnotism.

Nick is not killed, but rather banished
from the Vampire house, but not Sue.

Sue can still visit several months later.

We are amping up for the unholy
masquerade, the un, the annual

gathering of the local undead community.

We've got zombies, Banshees vampires.

No werewolves though,
and definitely no humans.

Although not specified on the invitation.

Vladislav thinks he'll be the guest of
honor, but finds out that it is actually

the beast his old rival and ex-girlfriend.

This sends him into a , depressive
episode and he decides to skip

the party for the time being.

At the party, we catch up with Jackie, who
is now a vampire with the help of Nick.

And Nick has brought Stu as his plus one.

Did not get the memo.

Since Stu being a predeceased human,
marks him as a delicious snack the Unde

community really wants to eat Stu and
does not have the collective discipline

of the smaller group at the Vampire house.

So Vigo et all defends stu and the
camera guys even though uh, Vladislav

who shows up at the last minute that
they can one of the camera guys,

but all the camera guys escape,
including Stu and everything's great

until they encounter the moon madness
of the werewolves, not werewolves.

We lose some camera guys, and Stu and
the vampire crew is devastated, but.

Park, Nick has a big
surprise for all of us.

Stu survived.

He is now a werewolf.

His friendship with the vampires has
brokered a piece between the rival

groups and they can drink together
and make jokes about penises.

As a bonus, Vigo has turned his
elderly crush into a vampire so

they can live happily ever after.

And Jackie has now turned her
husband into her familiar.

Good for her.

And that's essentially the story, but
like with the many documentaries, because

this is a real documentary based on events
in real time, real, what's the word?

The meat is in the presentation.

I think.

Carrie, when did you first see this movie?

Carrie: I saw this movie in what I
think was Maybe 2017 it was Halloween.

I had, or it was like, it was like
the day or so before Halloween,

and I was just like, fuck it.

I wanna watch something dumb and goofy.

And I saw, I had seen like some things on
Twitter talking about what we do in the

shadows, and I was like, you know what?

I've, I've heard people make
interesting things about

this, so let me just watch it.

I'm in the middle of this film
and my husband comes in and

is like, what you watching?

And I'm like, you're not gonna understand
a damn thing unless I rewind this.

So they have to stop it in the middle
of the film and rewatch it from the

beginning, which we absolutely loved it.

We actually quote it quite often.

Ben: I mean, that says a lot
right there that you were like,

well, this is only gonna make
sense if I rewind it all the way.

So clearly we act.

I'm down to watch it all over again.

Let's go.

Carrie: Basically.

And then the next day we
went to a friend's Halloween

party which was amazing.

she's like this cook, They were
like, what should we watch?

And I was like, what we do in the shadows?

And everybody's like, what?

So I, I had to sort of explain what
it was, and they were sort of like,

okay, I guess we'll give it a shot.

The music and all that sort
of stuff starts coming in.

And that's when like, I go into the
kitchen and I'm like, oh, there's snacks.

Cool.

And there is a, I swear to God,
she took a life size human fake

skeleton and covered it in like scudo

and had little, and then had
like little olives for the eyes.

Ben: Ah.

Carrie: like she had a bowl in the
ribcage with like little veggie sausages.

It wa it was it, she just did the most

Ben: incredible.

Emily: Does she have fake jam?

Ben: speaking of the theme, I
do really just wanted to talk a

little bit about what an amazing
song and what a perfect find.

You are Dead by Norma Tanega is,

Emily: Ah,

Jeremy: Yeah.

Enough so that they kept it for the show.

Ben: I mean, how can you, yeah,
how can you top that song?

Emily: Yeah.

The downloads, the uh, the
playlist editions, like that

song's was trending hardcore.

Ben: It is

Emily: a good Beatle drop.

Ben: Now,

Jeremy, Emily, when, when did
y'all first experience this movie?

Because I definitely watched this like
pretty close to when it came out in 2015.

So I, I was on that cult classic
train from the beginning.

I get to be a little
hipstery about this movie.

Jeremy: I don't remember when I saw
it first because I know that I watched

it before it came out because like
it got a release in New Zealand and

didn't do particularly well and then
didn't get distributed internationally.

And then became like one of the
most pirated movies of 2014.

I saw it from somebody else's,
like, burned copy of it.

And I was like, this is the most
brilliant fucking thing I've ever seen.

I gotta get a copy of this movie.

And then it was not available.

And I was like, how, what?

It was like a while before there
was actually like a version of it

available so I could like throw it
at people and be like, go watch this.

I remember watching it and being just
devastated because I had had this concept

for like a vampire comedy comic story
that I wanted to do it was called of

the Dead, and it was just about like,
Being a vampire and just sort of like the

pain in the ass of just like the normal
parts of being alive after being alive

for several hundred years and having,
another vampire roommate and all that.

And I, I just could never figure
out like what to do with it.

And then I watched this
movie and I was like, fuck.

They figured it out.

They figured out what to do with the
idea that I had, but they also had it.

And I, I, I was so like jealous
and, and devastated by it.

Because it, it's so, it's so fun.

Ben: It's such a pure
comedy, like it really is.

I doubt they had much more than like just
the loosest of plots in their head versus

just coming up with as many funny Things
and moments and scenes and reactions,

and then just like putting it together.

Jeremy: Yeah, apparently like Taika and
Jemaine wrote like 150 pages of script

and then just didn't show it to anybody,
and they just, you know, gave them a rough

idea of what the scenes were supposed
to be about and improvd everything.

Ben: From what I understand as a
creator, Taika doesn't, at least in

his directing doesn't so much be in
like the concept of filming on script.

Emily: Yeah, and that works sometimes.

In this case, I mean, with something
like this where you have everybody

just pretending that they're
stupid vampires, it was brilliant.

this is like, I talk about, you know,
all the, all the ingredients that

necessarily make a cake, sometimes
you measure with your heart.

And this one was, these, this
one was measured with the heart.

my experience with this movie speaking
of the heart, it's very close to mine.

Because when it first came out I had seen
ads for it and I had organized this big.

Outing to go see it at the local
indie theater because I was involved

in a community of pre-deceased
live action role players who

had their own unholy masquerade.

That is, we were playing
Vampire the Masquerade.

And so this shit is basically like that.

It was like watching a documentary
about all of my friends who took

themselves super seriously in
game and I just ate that shit up.

We couldn't actually do the, like,
the outing to the movie theater.

So we ended up just doing a, viewing party
when it was uh, released on like Netflix

or whatever was streaming on at the time.

uh, It was a huge hit.

There's some colorful times
in, in a large community.

The LA community is huge.

There's a lot of people that are
cool people that game, and then

there is a lot of people who
are really up their own ass and.

It's really great to play like a
murder mystery, shared storytelling

thing with a lot of people.

But then there's some people
that, you know, this vampire

game was set up in , the nineties
to be like the most goth shit.

Like, it's every vampire trope ever
with not a lot of humor brought to it.

And everything is super grim dark.

This movie felt like Taika and
Jemaine were talking to me and

they're like, look at these assholes.

And

Ben: the absurdity of just the
campiness of these fucking vampires.

Emily: yeah.

Yeah.

Ben: I must only drink blood, which is why
I can only wear skintight leather pants.

Emily: yeah.

Ben: There was some drip, there was
some drip in this movie, specifically

Taika's floral pattern jean jacket.

And I know he was ripping off
Deacon style, but Stu looked way

better in that like red, Black
Parade jacket he had going on.

Emily: Oh yeah, like the Adam Ant, like

Ben: Honestly, that was probably the
best outfit in the movie was like casual

wear with the red black vaid jacket.

That was a look and it
was fucking banging.

Emily: Taika with the um, or
I should say Vigo with the

Victorian lace with the cravat

Carrie: This little cravat killed me ever.

Ben: And the camo pants
mix And the with the camo

Emily: But that's the thing is that like,
this is the kind of shit that you go to

a larp and people who are like, can't
afford a whole fucking period costume.

They're like, I'll just do, and it's.

I'm not dragging anybody for that
because it's, you know, it's fucking

brilliant and Tyca pulled it off,
but like the kind of like, oh yes, I

was turning into a vampire when I was
16, that's why I always looked 16.

And

Jeremy: I was, I was born in
the dark, ages 16 was very rough

Emily: it's a rough time.

Like that

Ben: Oh my god.

Oh so many great moments.

Oh,

Jeremy: I, I love that.

Like, this is a movie that I, I don't
know how many people can see it the way

that I think we see it, but like that
you can very much see the seams of that.

They were like, all right,
vampires live a really long time,

so like, these guys could be from
very different times in history.

What if we just basically made a
movie where it was like Dracula.

Very specifically like the Gary Oldman
style Dracula had to like share a

house with Louie from Interview with
the Vampire and Nosferatu, like Count

or Luck from Nosferatu and I guess
the guy from Lost Boys and maybe we

pull in like a guy, you know, a guy
who's basically the guy from Twilight,

like, you know, later on like, well,

Emily: So yeah, according to, I'm
looking at the Wikipedia, so take

that with that grain of salt.

Ben: Well, again, the one about.

Vlad has a citation,
so I will citation it.

And Vlad.

Isla, the poker is explicitly
based off of Gary Oldman's Dracula.

Jeremy: yeah.

Ben: Well, Vigo is mostly based, oh,
don't wanna steal your trivia thunder.

Emily: Oh no, go.

You go.

Ben: Vigo is apparently primarily
based after Taika Waititi's Mother

Emily: Which is wonderful.

Jeremy: Apparently it's a mixture
of take-away T'S mother and C3 po.

Which,

Ben: Ghost

Jeremy: see C three PO in there.

Ben: It's such a dumb joke, but his
delivery on Ghost Cup gets me every time

their delivery is so good like this.

Like this.

is writing, acting, and
it's Christopher Guest.

This is without a doubt one of
like the titans of horror comedy.

Emily: Yeah.

And, and having all these actors
kind of, you know, do they choose

these actors because they're having

fun?

Ben: oh yeah.

Like this is in the pantheon of
Evil Dead Two and Young Frankenstein

in terms of horror comedies.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: I mean it's, it's very little
actual horror with the exception of

like the werewolf attack and the like,

almost a montage of them doing bits as
they chase Stu around the house, like,

Ben: the one bit that's kinda
scary is when the hand comes out

of the bag, comes outta Stu's
backpack while he is wearing it.

That's pretty creepy right there.

Emily: that whole sequence had some
good stuff, although it was a bit

like, it was a bit softened by Taika
doing like a really bad vampire

impression as a vampire like, That's
another thing that I love about it.

Ben: Well, just that you
get the killer, you get.

you get.

the continuation of the heat keeps
striking a, like a vein and causing a big

mess.

Jeremy: It keeps hitting arteries.

Emily: that's the thing too, is that
like you have, like I've, I've been

around so many people that pretend
to be vampires and there's like a

Ben: I haven't that, that is a
sentence I've never had to say before.

Emily: what that

Ben: I, I've been around so many
people who pretend to be vampires.

Jeremy: I mean, we know
where you live, Ben.

Just go outside and walk down the street.

I'm sure you'll bump into two or three.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, university campuses are
crawling with them after 8:00 PM just

go to the uh, the theater department.

Just go to the theater
department anywhere,

Ben: No, no,

Carrie: even if you're in a theater
department, like you're, everybody

wears black because that's what you
have to wear when you're backstage.

No one really fucks around with the
lights because that's not your job.

Like you're not supposed
to be seen in the light.

You may as well have stage hands
are like the perfect vampire cover.

Emily: Yeah.

Carrie: Because they're always
drinking stuff from a can.

You have no idea what they're drinking,
they're not gonna share anything with you.

And then if they, if you have no idea
what you're supposed to be doing, they'll

point at something and just say, move it.

And you do it because
you're under their thrall.

Emily: Yes.

that's a

really,

Ben: experience was not a time in my
life when I could handle being at places.

At times, I, I was in the uh, smoke
weed and play Mario Cart department.

Emily: When I was in college
there were multiple attempts to

drive me into the vampire thing,
but it was too serious for me.

I was, I was the like Deacon
brooker, like trying to be dumb,

but also serious kind of character.

My more recent experience, I had a
little bit more fun with it because

I wasn't taking it seriously.

and also I got to play with a lot
of accents, really bad accents.

If you wanna go, if you wanna go
somewhere and practice it, like

doing a bad accent, just join a lark

Carrie: Yeah.

Emily: do a, do a, a
murder mystery because

it's very

forgiving crowd

Ben: I would just go to other schools.

parties and speak in a
fake Irish accent the

Emily: that is also brilliant.

Just make sure they're European accents
that you're not like appropriating,

Ben: Oh no.

Always went Irish.

Always went Irish

Emily: I can't even do an Irish accent.

I like,

Ben: I'm not saying I can either.

I'm just saying I can, I'm
just saying I can fool drunk

people in North Philadelphia.

Emily: I mean, everything has its

Carrie: I mean, Americans are pretty
easy to impress in that department, so

Emily: I did.

I did convince a lot of people in my
crew that in my, like in that group,

when I first started that I was British
because I was using a British accent.

But then they were like,
wait, you're American?

And I'm like,

Ben: Yeah.

That's, that's, that's,
that's short term thinking.

That's not something you can keep up.

a lie.

You're gonna like, you
can't keep that up forever.

You're just British.

Now you have to invent a whole new life.

Emily: no,

Carrie: Okay.

It's so

Ben: You'll, you only pull the fake accent
game on people you are never seen again.

Carrie: It's a funny story on
that front as far as accents go.

I was born in Britain so there's
like all these really cute tapes of

me when I was a kid talking in this
like little baby British accent.

Emily: Oh my God.

Carrie: But then kindergarten happened
and kids are mean, but anytime I'm around

another accent, like a legit accent for
any of, like, I'll pick it up almost

immediately, especially if it's British.

Yeah.

So there was a time where, you
know, Alan could be like, you know,

you've been watching, you know, Dr.

Who or God knows what else.

Uh, and yeah.

And then it Bluey is another one.

That'll, that it'll happen too.

And it, it, Luther is definitely
one that it happens to.

That was really good.

Oh my God.

Jeremy: That's what I do.

Anytime I watch, anytime I watch
Luther for a good, solid after

hour afterwards, I'm just going.

Carrie: But anyway I hear you on the
accent thing, and I think that's one

of the things that I really find about,
funny about this film is because like

they go pretty and even in the, in the
series, like they go pretty hard on the

accent and just how in some cases good.

And in other cases it's just so bad,

Emily: Yeah.

Carrie: they just sort of embrace it and
it, it makes it all the more charming

Jeremy: I think they lean into the, like
the, accents don't have to be right, they

just have to like, seem like the type of
characters that they're pretending to be.

Like, what is Jemaine
Clementson this accent?

In this movie it's Gary

Oldman.

Like that's,

you know, he's, he's
doing a Dracula accent.

Ben: It's a lot less being accurate and
being more how we, Ima want it to sound

Jeremy: Yeah, some,

Emily: Yeah,

Jeremy: sometimes Vigo
forgets that he's German.

Sometimes he gets more
German than sometimes he

Ben: love

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: has an accent that belongs to no
country, but it is a great Dracula accent.

Emily: Yeah, and I feel like
Deacon has a slightly, like

more cartoony Dracula accent.

Like I don't know where Deacon's from

or he is supposed to be, I mean I
guess Germany, or he was in Germany

cuz like I, you know, those of

us who've read he's a Nazi vampire.

Those of us who've read Hellboy know
that a lot of vampires were targeted

by the Nazis during that time.

And vampires having low humanity
and um, you know, I'm not saying

not all vampires are Nazis, but

Jeremy: not all vampires.

Emily: hashtag not all vampires

Ben: I was gonna say, who
are these real vampires?

You're worried about offending,
but then I remembered the stories

you've already told in this episode.

Emily: Yes.

Again, I want to reiterate that there
are LARP groups out there that are cool.

There are, they're cool people,
and the shitty people that I

encountered in those groups we're the

Ben: We, we here progressively horrified,
want to endorse the one to endorse the

belief that not all vampires a fictional
creature are in fact members of the

not of the national socialist movement.

Carrie: But wait.

We gotta talk about the fictional
aspect of the, of what a vampire is.

Like how do you define a vampire and
where did the idea of them come from?

Emily: well, the, the interesting thing
here is that our vampires are like

these are vampires that have immigrated
to New Zealand from Central Europe.

Ben: where do vampires
come from to that question?

Having done zero research into it,
but just kind of now sensing the

general vibe of European history.

I'm just gonna go ahead and guess.

Hmm.

Probably from something anti-Semitic,

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

Carrie: not wrong.

Ben: it probably ties back to
hating the Jews in some way.

It almost always does.

Emily: well, whenever there's,
I mean, it's basically whenever

there's a monster, there's
generally like a, a racism in there.

Jeremy: I mean, they were more broadly,
it's a more broad hate of people

from Eastern Europe generally who
are moving into Western Europe and

Ben: Oh gee.

Oh gee.

I wonder what Eastern European
subgroup might have been routinely

kicked out Eastern Europe.

Jeremy: Yep.

Carrie: anyway.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: I, I wonder what group could
possibly have been facing a thousand

years of diaspora at the time.

Jeremy: It's, it's, I feel like
the actual, like the invention of.

Dracula and, and the concept of vampires
is so weird because it's so caught

up in these two conflicting things
going on inside Bram Stoker, him being

afraid of Eastern Europeans coming to
the west, and also him being afraid

of really willing to fuck other dudes.

And like

Ben: it's, it's such a crazy mix that
really just, it's that right mix of

hating others and hating yourselves.

That sometimes what you
need for a literary classic,

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: ask glove craft.

Carrie: Yeah, there's that for sure.

So there's a couple different things
that talk about it, but what I find to

be the more interesting one is actually
explained medically not necessarily the

getting back up from the dead shit, but
the drinking of the blood the wanting

to bite people, the hypersexualization,
all that kind of stuff.

The aversion to water.

It all sort of convalesce into this
idea of what happens to the human bodies

when it buddy when it gets rabies.

Emily: Mm.

Ben: Yeah,

Carrie: So if you've ever actually seen
this happen uh, there's some videos

out there that I'll show you, like
what happens when somebody who has

rabies or is being treated for rabies
actually has to drink water, like, It

it is, it does not look comfortable.

It looks

awful.

Ben: and if someone's at that
point, there's no treating him

Carrie: I mean,

pretty

much.

Ben: understand, like.

It is.

I've seen what I've seen
that, and it is horrifying.

Carrie: it is horrifying.

And then there's also the whole
idea that they want to eat meat.

Like meat is what they're after.

They're biting people because they,
in many cases those symptoms will make

them do that because it's like fucking
with the neurological sy pathways and

Ben: totally.

Just like the sense of an animal
bite makes a human being feral,

Carrie: exactly.

Which is also very interesting when
you get into, that's where that, where

really interesting crossroads of both
Lyn therapy and Vam Prism sort of come

together and it's sort of like they were
almost born out of the same original idea,

but they were just
taken two separate ways.

Emily: there's also the
the tuberculosis uh,

Ben: autoimmune

Emily: epidemic.

that kind of created this, that added
this very, like the, the ghostly

pale you know, undead, quality of the
vampire, you know, rather than just

a monster that ate you in the woods.

Carrie: Yeah.

And a lot of that came time came
around the time of the 18 hundreds late

17 hundreds, early 18 hundreds when
consumption was actually considered

in many cases romanticized because as
you started to die, you became more

beautiful in this ghostly, ghostly
way, which is so sick the more I

Emily: yeah, yeah.

Well,

I

Ben: 18th, the eight, the 19th
century was uh, it's kind of a

weird fucking time, wasn't it?

Emily: yeah, I mean, there were a lot
of, those times were fucking weird.

And, you know,

Ben: I know, but it's weird that we
think about an entire historical era.

It's like, yeah, things got
kinda morbid and got for a while.

Carrie: I mean that's where a lot of
our ideas of what current I the current

sort of social amalgam of what vampire
actually is, comes from in a large part,

what we thought of in the 19th century.

Emily: Yeah, when they
were printing gothic horror

Carrie: mm-hmm.

Then

Like Bram Stoker stuff, and that's
what I believe that this film is

really, at least from my theory, is
that it's really, really rooted in

Bram Stoker's sort of rule book of
what a vampire is and rooted in that

sort of idea of like this sort of rich.

Vampire dude, Aras Dracula esque
with all this, like, it's sort

of like if you took Bram Stoker's
Dracula and just made him stupid

Emily: Yeah.

Carrie: a normal guy completely
out of touch with reality.

Ben: There's a three stooges
element to it where like none

of them is the straight man.

They're all just differently dumb.

Emily: Well, they're all
vampires, so none of them is.

Ben: Like they're all dumb.

They just take turns thinking that
they're smarter than the others.

Carrie: It makes me wonder what
their d and d stats would be like.

Is their dump stat just all intelligent?

Emily: Yeah, I

Ben: I don't know.

I mean, how incredible is
Jemaine Clement face Cat?

Carrie: Okay.

First of all, you were talking
about things that were scary.

That terrified me the first.

Ben: Just a cat with Jemaine Clement.

Just again, get ready
for more of that in Moana

Live Action.

Moana coming to an IMAX soon.

Carrie: No.

Emily: another thing about this movie
is that, that they actually use like a

lot of these central European medieval
imagery as part of their like historical

documentation of like, the kind of
shit that you see in in documentaries

about European history and we see these
illustrations and things like that.

And then we have all of these
images from grimoires and and like,

Ben: Honestly, grimoires Sounds
like the name of a French vampire.

Jeremy: Yeah, it's, it's like
they took literally like every

historical reference to a thing that
might be a vampire, and they were

like, let's toss this in for lows.

Just, you

Emily: yeah.

Well, and there's some whack
shit in there that's hilarious.

Like there's some dore and there's some
Abrook du in there, but then they have

like the weird, like when they talk about
the bees, did they show that weird thing?

That looks like a, like an
otter with a dick in its chest?

Ben: Oh, that's such like weird.

That was such like weird monk,
like horny monk notebook.

Scrawlings.

That's like all over those old ass books.

Emily: Yeah.

Well, a lot of those

Jeremy: we're on Tumblr now.

Emily: yeah, the, all those B series
from like, back in the day, a lot of that

was like word of mouth kind of stuff.

So the people would make these B
series, like the original description

of a manticore is it has a body,
like a cat, a face like a man.

It is covered in red fire patterns,
and it has a tail that lashes,

like a scorpion, that's a tiger.

What they were describing was a tiger.

But somebody's like, I
don't know, it's like a cat.

It's kinda like a lion, but
it's got a man's face and

Carrie: Like that's the
part I don't understand

Emily: Because tigers, the stripes make it
look like it has eyebrows and a mustache.

Ben: The guy was probably like, look,
if you saw my uncle, you'd understand.

He looks just like this big ass thing.

Emily: if like, you see that
face in the woods and you see

like, just coming through.

Yeah.

Because it, like, they look like they
have eyebrows and a mustache and a beard.

So people was, were like, oh, it's a,
it's a lion, but he is got makeup on.

Like I think that's what they were.

Carrie: God damn it.

You're right.

Oh my God.

Emily: A tiger is like a drag lion.

Ben: I mean, that does check
out because tigers are cooler,

better, and stronger than,

Emily: Yes,

Ben: so that does check out that
they would be the ones in drag.

Emily: Yeah.

Although

it's, it's really cool cuz

Ben: nudge.

Emily: will grow a

Ben: Drag queens are stronger
than the troops except for the

troops who are also drag queens.

they are the strongest of all.

Emily: so vampires, we've got this
very cartoony idea of vampires,

immigrating to regular ass New Zealand.

And I think that it's important
to talk about this because we have

Taika Waititi in Jemaine Clement
who are Pacific Islander, right?

And, a lot of our characters are
very like, white New Zealanders now.

I don't know the, the background.

Ben: feels very like, The place you
would fly into where the airport, the

city, where the airport would be when
you're flying to see Hobbit stuff

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: like this is where you need
to fly into and then the bus

would take you to the Shire.

Emily: And the show is set in
Staten Island, which is where the,

the characters say that their boat
dropped them off and they just

Ben: I've lived in New York for years.

I'm still not convinced that's a
fucking real place that an island.

I've never been there.

Emily: Well probably for the best,
cuz apparently there's a, you know,

these really serious vampires.

Ben: I do feel like the movie
does not have much in the

way of like politics at all.

It's just a.

Collection of the funniest
fucking vampire moments.

I do feel like its deficiencies
and representation are mostly

just felt in comparison to the
show, which is with, its explicit.

Everyone is queer

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: And really just the fact that like
there are like the most prominent woman

character in the movie is Jackie, the
he familiar who is not a main character,

like the familiar is in the show.

Whereas in the show we get the
comedic force of nature that is Naja.

Carrie: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy: Yeah, I, I remember the first
time I saw the show I was like, yeah,

when I watched the movie, I felt like
we were missing any sort of like female

vampire stuff that like should be there.

Cuz I mean, there's so, there's
such a long history of female

vampire

Ben: crucially not, not using the
woman character as the straight man

of being like, stop being dumb fun,
vampire, fun vampires like that.

Naja gets to be as absolutely
batshit crazy and as fucking dumb as

Carrie: Night club.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: club.

Emily: Yeah.

No, not just great,

Ben: Or just setting it on fire
but not know cuz she doesn't

know how insurance works.

Emily: Jackie, the familiar in this
movie has an interesting comment.

About how like, well, if I had a penis,
I would've been turned into a vampire

years

ago.

Yeah.

Thetic biting club.

Which is interesting

cuz like,

Ben: that on.

I want that on T-shirt.

Emily: yeah,

Jeremy: I don't want that on a t-shirt.

Ben: T-shirt.

Emily: I definitely want

Ben: It's gonna, it's gonna
be like the Hell Fire Club,

Emily: hell yeah.

Ben: Biting Club.

Emily: It's like the, it's
like the anti health fire club.

Jeremy: Weirdly, Emma's in both.

Emily: But the if we're talking
about like, you know, is this

movie Feminist, there's not a lot
of women represented in the movie.

We have Jackie, who is, you
know, defined as a familiar but

she resents her precision and
is, you know, ultimately like,

Ben: Oh yeah.

It's not like it's, it's not like
the sexist depictions of women.

I want it to be
conditional in saying this.

Movie's deficiencies in that
regard are kind of exposed only

by the existence of the show.

Emily: But I think that, that, that choice
for Jackie also is an interesting joke

about like the, the brides of Dracula.

You know, like you have this idea
of the brides of Dracula who are

centrally familiars, like, you know,

Ben: it's more like, I'm sorry
to be arguing with you on this.

I'm sorry to be an argument.

And maybe this is just because,
you know, with the upcoming uh,

Nicholas Cage, Nicholas, how Nicholas
squared double feature really

anything with those familiars and
Jackie, I always kind of connect

back to uh, the Renfield archetype.

Emily: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

But like Jackie, you know,
we have that going on too.

And that's the thing is that there's
like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of

shit that is made fun of in this movie

Ben: While.

Oh yeah.

And while this movie, and while they're
not textually queer, this movie does

a thousand percent nail just the
homoerotic over and undertones that

come with just being any vampire story.

Emily: Yeah.

And, you know, but the fact that
Jackie is you know, an accessory to,

like Deacon sees her as an accessory.

And she is not like, particularly
sexy until she becomes a vampire.

You know?

She's, but

she

like

Ben: vampire rules.

Emily: exactly.

Ben: who's a man, saw
Deacon's erotic dance,

Emily: I mean, this dude could dance.

That dude has some good moves this hips.

Like The stage move where he's like
on all fours, but he's got his, he's

like doing the hip ration, like on

Ben: This is what

Twitter does to me is that before
Twitter, I watch Disney be like, ha ha ha.

It's funny because it's just such
a not sexy dance now after Twitter,

I'm like, I know people that go
absolutely fucking Ferl for this scene.

Emily: Yeah.

It's, I mean when you go to empire, you
would always sexy and he just kind of is

Ben: He slaps his thigh like

he

or

no, he doesn't.

Does he

Emily: like,

Ben: thighs or just kinda
like present himself?

Emily: generally presents himself
and he is like, take a look of this.

Ben: I love the detail
that he lives in the

Emily: Sisi,

Ben: in the broom closet too.

Emily: right?

Yeah.

He's, but he's the young
bad boy of the group.

He turned into a dog and had sex.

According to the Wikipedia, this character
is based off of Deacon Frost from Blade.

That does not

seem to have,

Ben: have a citation.

Emily: yeah, but considering the
amount of blade references that are

throughout

Ben: Taika

Emily: verse

Ben: Taika Cosplaying Blade.

Emily: Tika as Vigo as blade,

Ben: Yes.

Emily: which is hilarious.

Also, these it's interesting how these
vampires are so like synchronistic and

just inappropriate and the kind of jokes
that they can get away with, like yago

cosplay as Whoopy Goldberg from Sister X

Ben: And sister Act

two back in

the habit

Jeremy: And it was offensive
because she was a nun.

And vampires and nuns don't get along.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

No nuns, none.

Jeremy: No nuns, none.

Uh, I, I think interestingly, this movie.

Like, it's a lot of fun.

It does kind of fall short on the places
where you'd expect it to excel, like L G B

T stuff, like social stuff and race stuff.

And it, it pokes fun at things, but
like, I think at least what, you know,

certainly by the time we get to the show,
but you would think in this movie that

there would be something more explicitly
homoerotic than what's in this movie.

Ben: I will say though, in terms of
representation, this movie does have

Taika Waititi in a karate uniform doing
Luke Kang's bicycle kick in the air.

So five stars.

Emily: Oh yeah.

You know, we don't get enough moral
combat representation in our films.

Ben: I was going to say I need more
vampires and Mortal Combat, but they did

that one character and she wasn't great.

Emily: They have a lot of
vampires in Mortal Combat.

I think I saw a thing where the
Joker was in Immortal Combat and

he was making fun of new Cybots.

So

Ben: he is in Mortal Combat and they
also had that Mortal Combat Game

show up in all the Arrowverse shows.

Which L leads me to wonder
if the Joker is also a D L C

character in the that universe.

Emily: I mean, probably, but I
wanted to say something about

the about like representation.

You know, a lot of what this movie,
especially with the characters playing

vampires, a lot of what this movie
feels like, you know, kind of making

fun of what white people think is funny.

Especially like old white people, right?

Carrie: Actually, yes.

That's one of the things that I
was actually just thinking about

too, is like, Being up north where
I am at the moment you kind of are

surrounded by a bunch of people you
know, who are inevitably old money

Emily: Mm-hmm.

Carrie: and just how completely
detached they are from the reality

of what everything is right now.

Like there, there's some folks that
you meet at the grocery store and

you just look at them and go, I know
you dance to music on a gramaphone.

I can't prove it, but I
know that's what you do.

Like,

Emily: I mean, and that's another
like vampire trope, right?

Is the, you know, the,
the elitism and the the

social Yeah.

And gramophones,

Jeremy: I hate CDs Notoriously.

Ben: I also just.

Just love the earnestness with which
the characters deliver the line.

Fatal sunlight accident.

Emily: I think the earnest is earnestness
of a lot of lines in this movie.

There.

That is the, the delivery of
which is one of its greatest

Ben: There is the one moment that I think
is full of legitimate heart, which is

Deacon's speech to Nick about like the
pain of like seeing everyone you know die.

And you know, especially the part where
he is like, and you wish they were dead.

But it's still hilarious for how
completely ineffective it is.

A, a speech to cheer nick up in any way.

Carrie: Yeah,

Ben: Also just cracker
mask and attack my ducks.

Carrie: Yeah.

Jeremy: yeah, I, I, it's so interesting
to me that it's just like, They're

like, this is the big inspirational
speech moment, you know, because

of the way that we're staging it.

But also, he kind of sucks.

He's very bad at this.

You know, he, he still doesn't
really like him and he feels

like he should say something now.

But he still, he didn't suddenly
get good at giving inspirational

speeches in the last five minutes.

Ben: How about fucking
Jemaine Clement Blake?

Look, when he shows up at the masquerade,

Emily: I mean, that is
dead, but delicious.

Like, I

Ben: how

Emily: what he ate.

Ben: fucking everything is that look

Emily: Yes,

Ben: glistening.

The

Jeremy: And then him not being
able to get the mask off is just,

Emily: yes.

I like how they have, they have the sting.

Everybody's like, hold on, hold on.

And they don't cut any of that shit out.

And then he like does
the, they have like the,

Ben: That had to be the g I mean,
that had to be the, just the improv

and just ever being dumb and God,
and Stu being, I love the chant

afterwards, like, Stu Stu, Stu Stu.

Emily: I also wanted to talk a
little bit about like, cuz we've

talked about the L G B T, like the,
you know, the vampires don't, other

than the, the fact that they're just
they just emanate the queer vibes.

Ben: It, it does seem to be
a very healthy group living

Emily: I

Ben: attempts to address
breakdowns and responsibilities.

I mean, when vi when they're all
being sad about Stu and, and like,

and Vigo is putting Deacon like back
in his closet and Deacon saying,

sorry for staying asleep with a.

Like curtain open, like
the, like you're right.

There is like this found family, like
these vampires are fond of each other.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

They flat together and they
take care of each other.

When the chips are down, they're,
they're really upset about Petyr.

Carrie: Oh,

Emily: Um,

Ben: big.

Mad about Petyr.

I do love the casualness with
which that one guy's like.

I'm a vampire hunter.

Like, fuck you.

No you're not.

Yeah, I am.

Emily: I, the guy who plays Nick, his
performance is so brilliant because

the way that he kind of mumbles
everything is so fucking funny.

Where like, he tells the guy at the
like Quickie Mart or whatever, that

he's a vampire, and the guy at the
registers like, oh yeah, me too.

Ha ha ha, you're funny.

And he like, does the actual
like crazy vampire His thing like

they would call it dread gaze in
fucking vampire and masquerade.

Jeremy: He vamps out.

Emily: he vamps out at him and
he is like, then the cashier

like just is fucking terrified.

And he does this like, don't, don't
lie about transforming into shit.

And I can't even eat chips.

Chips are my favorite food.

I can't even eat chips.

Don't believe the hype.

It's so fucking funny.

Ben: I mean, I get that because by
far one of the worst things about

like not being able to like, Be of
having to be a vampire and maybe this

is why you don't see French vampires.

They can't handle the pain of this
is not being able to eat garlic.

Emily: Well list

Ben: That's one of the biggest
deal breakers is garlic.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean,

Ben: Oh yeah.

You do get French.

You do get French vampires
in the interview and they're

so deliciously France too.

Emily: I mean, I, the Luta, I don't
know if Lista was originally French.

I don't know what the
fucking, I haven't actually

Ben: Let's start As is very French.

Liad is extremely French.

Jeremy: stat is French for the stat.

Emily: yeah, he's got

Ben: Liad is French for,
look at Liad is French for.

Look at how fucking French
this fucking vampire is.

Emily: I mean,

Jeremy: Yes.

Louie Gay.

The stat

is he just

Carrie: French

Emily: maybe just French,

Um,

Ben: that is my favorite part about.

That pilot is just being like, look,
maybe gay French people can stop time.

I don't know.

If you haven't seen an interview
with the Vampire yet, go get your

week trial to the A to the Showtime
streaming service and then binge the

season, the first season of interview,

Emily: I think you can, I think
you can see the first episode.

If you just have Prime

Ben: binge the whole
fucking fucking season.

It's great.

And I will say that pilot episode
is one of the greatest episodes

of television I've ever seen.

Pilot's incredible.

Emily: Good to know.

But I wanted to talk about
how in this movie, what

Jeremy, okay.

I wanna talk about how in
this movie, Jeremy's trying

to like hypnotize me, I think.

He's doing this thing with his hands now.

He's

voguing Now I'm just gonna
describe what Jeremy's doing.

No.

Okay.

So in this movie, stop.

In this movie

Carrie: It's chaos.

Oh, chaos.

Emily: so one of

Ben: Fitting.

Emily: uses the f slur.

And I'm trying to talk about slurs.

Jeremy, I know why you
would wanna run away.

Ben: Jeremy, get back here for slur talk.

Carrie: You back on

Emily: Yeah.

You go pull that rope,

Walking

against the wind.

Ben: use slurs.

Get

Emily: I don't, I don't want to use slurs.

I wanna talk about slurs.

Goddamnit, man.

Ben: That's true.

That was a willful
misinterpretation by me.

I was being shitty.

Emily: and

Ben: I'll fess

Emily: you.

Ben: that one.

Emily: Oh, okay.

I did, I liked how they said that they,
they called out the effler as a swear.

And Anton was like, you
don't use that language.

That's a, you know, and that's a
stupid word, and, and you shouldn't

use that slur unless you're
talking about a pile of sticks.

Carrie: Yeah.

Emily: And I'm like, yay.

For werewolves, not werewolves.

Ben: Which is why one of the few times
when using the F-word that's still okay is

that Simpson's joke about how to separate.

We are put into humble twigs, but
together we form a mighty blank.

Carrie: The transformers, the sticks,

Jeremy: Yeah.

Uh, Rhys Darby knows on what side his
bread will eventually be buttered.

Ben: Oh yes.

Oh yes.

I mean, it is, it is crazy.

You just want them to share more of the
screen together, knowing just like how

fucking sizzling Taika and Rhys Darby's
chemistry is like, it's right there and

it's like you can't quite have it yet.

Jeremy: And they, they're playing
opposite parts at this point.

Emily: yeah, and like

Jeremy: And as much as we believe
that, and as much as we buy Darby's

character as the alpha of anything,
I mean, he's giving people orders,

but he is still very much easterby.

Emily: yeah, and I think that's part of
what's funny about it is that like, you

know, because the werewolves, another
thing about the werewolves is that they

have this like, you know, alpha male
like toxic masculinity thing that is

associated with werewolves and movies.

We don't have any girl wolves in
the pack, which is in, in this

movie, which is unfortunate.

We do get that with the, with the show.

Which one of my favorite characters she's
always calling Nadia out on her outfits,

which I think is really, really hilarious.

Yeah, but the fact that the, all the
werewolves, like, I think it's forgivable

that all the werewolves are men because
they're all like trying to be like

toxic masculinity guys, but they're not.

Ben: feels like that.

Yeah, it feels like this very
like interesting bro group.

Emily: Yeah,

Ben: This is a group where
everywhere, you know, they all own

multiple pairs of cargo shorts.

Emily: absolutely.

And they're all like, Playing themselves.

Like they're not, they're not
toxically masculine dudes.

They're just dudes that are like, they
like to, you know, they like to fish,

they like to drive a car, but you know,

also they like to chase the mailman.

Jeremy: Appreciate that they
keep from turning into werewolves

with breathing exercises.

Emily: yes,

Jeremy: They just,

Carrie: I feel like they're sort
of like the Labrador retrievers and

golden retrievers of werewolves.

Emily: yes.

I think, I think that's part of it.

Is that,

Carrie: very wholesome,
but very little bra.

Emily: yeah,

Jeremy: So I, I guess, I mean this feels
superfluous at this point, but would you

guys recommend this movie to, to people?

Emily: absolutely.

Ben: only would I recommend
it, I'm actively scolding you

for not having already seen it.

If

Carrie: There you go.

Emily: Hit me up.

I'll stream it to you.

Carrie: Yeah.

Emily: I just, not for money, but.

Ben: hit me up, I'll drunkenly
recite quotes out of context to you.

Emily: I'll just recite the whole film
to you because I probably have that

much of it and memorized at this point.

Jeremy: Don't hit me up.

Leave me to my dark internet bidding,

Emily: Yeah.

What are you bidding on?

Jeremy: Very small puppets.

Emily: Did you know that the eraser
head baby is actually legally a muppet?

Carrie: that's not allowed.

Emily: It's

Ben: Did you,

that sounds like something that
would be on a fucked up Snapple cap

Carrie: I agree, Ben.

Jeremy: I only drink fucked up Snapple.

I mean, they, they could make a lot
of money after that, you know, make

fucked up flavors and then put fucked up

Ben: like that.

Like that's what, that's the real
fact you'd get when you get like the

Snapple energy drink tea iced tea.

Jeremy: I feel like there's been a lot of
uh, recommending already, but uh, Carrie,

did you have anything specifically from
this that you, you wanted to recommend

people check out if they, they enjoy
what we do in the shadows, the movie.

Carrie: If, okay, if you like what
we do in the shadows and you want

more interesting sort of vampire
kind of stuff, it would less

comedy, but it would be oh crap.

It's the one about following you
home in the dark or something like

Jeremy: A girl walks home alone at night.

Carrie: thank you.

Ben: Great.

Oh, fantastic movie.

Carrie: Yeah.

And then I would also suggest
just in general a book called On

Monsters by Steven t Asthma, a
s a A s m A which is about the

UNL histories of our worst fears.

And it actually talks a lot about like
where where the idea of monsters come

from, what kind of monsters are out
there, and then how union and Freudian

and psychology and neuroscience and all
that sort of stuff sort of mixed together

within history to create and sort of
talk about like how, what, how monsters

in many cases make us more humans.

Jeremy: Thanks.

Emily: like a legit awesome book.

What is it?

Was it called.

Carrie: Uh, It's called on monsters.

Emily: Okay.

Yeah, cuz with a title like
that, I would think it would be

like a Shape of Water situation.

Carrie: No, this is

a,

Jeremy: on top of monsters.

Emily: Oh yeah.

Carrie: it's an Oxford
University Press book.

So, it's really, really
interesting and fascinating.

So definitely suggest getting that.

And if you cannot find it at your
local bookstore uh, you can usually

find it at a college bookstore.

Emily: Awesome.

Jeremy: Can't find it.

Go to college.

All right.

Ben, what have you got to recommend?

Ben: If you want more Aries
and comedies of this kind of

Mile a second Jokes nonstop.

I'm gonna recommend the works of
Christopher Guest specifically.

This is Spinal Tap and Best in Show.

Carrie: Best in Show is amazing.

Also, simply Ballroom is pretty good too.

Emily: I haven't seen that one.

I've seen a mighty, no, I haven't
seen a Mighty W but I've seen

a Best in Show in Spinal Tap.

Jeremy: Uh, Emily, what
would you recommend?

Emily: I'm gonna go with a
very, very specific deep cut.

If you can find them, there are a
series of comics that Jhonen Vasquez

did before the Invader Zim situation.

So Johnny, the homicidal maniac.

But in those comics there are
these little interludes called

meanwhile, and there is one if you
can find, look up Eric the Vampire.

And there is a very short comic about
this team kid who's really obsessed with

vampires and being goth, and he is turned
into a vampire and it is hilarious.

So I would, it's sort of, I think
it's a predecessor to a lot of these,

but it is one of the funniest comics
especially someone who has known so

many people who pretend to be vampires.

It's, it's some of the funniest
shit I've ever seen and read.

Carrie: It's Johnny the
homo homicidal maniac.

Comics issued number seven.

Emily: Yes.

I think that's the final issue of
the Johnny Set before he goes over

to que and then the rest is history.

Jeremy: Yeah.

As for me, I wanted to recommend a a
TV show, which is actually a spinoff

of this, what we do in The Shadows.

The TV show is sort of a spinoff,
sort of a tie-in remake kind of thing.

But Wellington Paranormal uh,
which you can watch on H B O Max

among other places is follows
Officer Mano and Officer O'Leary,

who we meet briefly in this movie.

Who are, they're just named after
the actors, Mike Mano and Karen

O'Leary, who, who play the parts.

And it's to me uh, sort of everything that
I feel like what we do in the shadows is,

but like that it, it doesn't always do.

Like, Karen O'Leary is specifically gay,
uh, very like normal gay person who also

happens to be like a, a cop in this thing.

So like, you know, it doesn't
come up for a long time.

But there are a lot of like very like nod
things to, you know, her, her sexuality.

Like her mom doesn't quite understand.

And you know, there's uh,
little bits and pieces in there.

So we get some of the vampire
stuff, but we also get.

Everything from some like invasion
of the body snatchers kind of stuff.

We get demons and they do a really
interesting job of, of doing something

that the, the movie doesn't attempt
to, which is really engaging with

New Zealand and New Zealand culture.

And uh, ethnically New Zealanders.

Sort of the third main character of
the show is, is their sergeant Sergeant

Maaka, who is you know, a native New
Zealander and who's gets a chance to

be just as funny and goofy as they are.

But also there's a lot of, like, a lot
of things pop up throughout the show

that are like actual, like folklore from
Native New Zealand myths and, you know,

things that he knows about from being
raised that he'll he'll have an idea

about or he'll, he'll have a some sort of
myth that his grandmother told him about.

He really desperately wants to be like
in charge of the X-files, but they're

like, they're not very good at their job.

And that's kind of like the joke of it
is, they're dealing with these x-files

like situations, but so very much within
the world and feeling of what we do in

the shadows of like, you know, even, even
the most malicious and terrible creatures

are still kind of funny and stupid.

You know, they, run across Satan
at one point who is running a

scam at the mall with Santas.

you know, somebody is accidentally
summoned Satan instead of a mall Santa.

So he is sort of filling in as a mall
Santa, but it's still obviously Satan.

, it's a funny show and fun and sort of
like fills in some of the stuff that

feels like it's kind of missing from
the greater world of what we do in the

shadows in a way that really works.

Emily: It's also a documentary, the
like a documentary format, right?

Jeremy: yeah, it's specifically done like
cops where it's like films sort of from

the backseat and, you know, following
them around when they're on the street

and, you know, they'll stop and narrate
to the camera what's going on while things

continue to happen in the background.

And, you know, because it's.

Because they're cops in New Zealand.

They're not running around with guns.

They have one taser that they
share between the two of them

and have several fights over.

Who gets who's to earn
it is to use the taser.

So yeah, it's, it's a lot of fun.

There's three seasons of it and it's
just like, it's a ball to watch.

Emily: I haven't seen it, but I've
heard a lot of good things about it.

it, it, yeah, it sounds like a a
pretty like similar spirit, a much

more similar spirit to the movie in
terms of like the new zealandness

Jeremy: Oh yeah.

It,

it's very New Zealand and they um, you
know, they, they do a nice share of

like, stuff that's sort of a reference
to a movie and, Rhys Darby does at one

point show up working as a park ranger.

But they're they're sure that
they've met him somewhere

before and they can't place it.

Cause they have of course met his,
his met Anton from this movie.

Ben: I think what you have is,
you know, someone who is certainly

willing to go off script in order
to get the best out of that scene.

Like his ideas will always be
something unique and super funny.

works perfectly for something
that's just a pure comedy,

like what we do in the shadows.

But for something that's a little
more, less a pure comedy, like what we

do in the shadows and a little more,
you know, plot heavy or arc heavy.

I think that maybe over-reliance on
the strength of his moment and moment

may, there may still be some weakness
in that larger picture story structure.

Carrie: I can kind of agree with that.

One of the things about working in comedy
film, at least from a lot of the folks

that I know who work in comedy they,
they kind of come with a general idea.

There is a script, but then they kind of
riff off of different things and then, At

the end of the day, they have like this
massive dump of all this, this footage.

And then really the film is
kind of created on the editing

room, editing room floor.

Ben: It's, it really, oh, sorry.

It just really seems that it is this
philosophy of let's film everything

we can think of that might be good,
and then let's just put together a

sequence of our best moments and scenes

Carrie: yeah.

Ben: versus, I have a very
specific, Story and theme in mind.

And every scene is designed to
forward the plot or communicate

the themes in a specific way.

Carrie: Yeah.

Ben: It's just, it's a different
style and creative process, and

neither is more wrong than the other,
but it just has to be well suited.

It just either style has to be, has to
then use stories and projects well-suited

to each method's respective strengths.

And again, something like what we do
in the shadows is fucking strength.

Emily: And when you have something
in a documentary for the documentary

format, you have actors, you have
these incredible actors in character,

and they're also enjoying themselves.

And I think that enjoyment is something
that's really important for comedy

like this, especially like something
a little bit more fantastical

because that joy is infectious.

Like when you see an actor chewing
the scenery, it's really awesome.

We've watched plenty of mediocre movies
on this podcast that have one or two

incredible performances in them that
made that movie, a memorable and great

experience for us, as opposed to a
slog, which, you know, It could've been.

I like my share of like
weird campy movies.

Like I love Blood and Donuts but like,
I think that you have to have a little

bit more when you're weaving like
an epic, like something like Thor.

Thor Ragner Rock was a nice change of
pace and everything that was there it

showed how much those actors were just
having a great time doing some crazy shit.

You know, Thor Love and Thunder,
it was a little too reliant on that.

And it had this, that weird like,
circumstantial awkward, like sitcom

energy that just flattened the
entire heartbeat of the entire movie.

Jeremy: Yeah,

it's,

it ends up kind of weirdly
unbalanced in that case.

I, I think as much as, as much as
Ragner Rock is one of my favorites of,

of the sort of M C U love and thunder
and a lot of ways didn't work for me.

Because in, in trying to have fun,
it, it sort of misses some of the more

important dramatic beats of the story.

Or they, they don't
land quite the same way.

The one other problem I have with
td, which is certainly something

that's come up over time and I think
bothered me more in something like

uh, hunt for the welder people than
it did in, in, some of the Thor stuff.

He's come a long way on, on L G B
T representation and he does a lot

with sort of, race and stuff in
his movies that, that works well.

But he has a weird antipathy to fat people
that like really throws me off sometimes

that, you know, will, you'll be watching.

Especially that movie is so,
is so mean to, its, its lead.

And it's, you know, it's somewhat
intended, but it is something

that I think pops up sort of
again and again in his work that

like feels off for the character.

He seems to want to be as a creator.

Carrie: Yeah,

Emily: Yeah.

Carrie: that's one of the things that
I actually notice a lot with within

more, you know, progressive films.

They have all this diversity,
whether it's, l g bt Qia

or, so many Bipo characters.

They're talking about real issues
and all that kind of stuff.

But the instant, , There's
a larger person on screen.

It's like we're back to the
1970s talking about how fat

people eat stuff all the time.

And it's just so obnoxious and annoying.

Especially just like even in
how, like, okay, fat jokes.

Fat jokes are something that
kind of get to me because I've

always been a larger person.

And I mean, yeah, I think talking
about our bodies and just in general

how the human body is ridiculous
in so many ways can be funny.

But it also feels like in many cases
when you're talking about comedy

and diversity, that whole idea of
body diversity is almost always just

shoved to the side and feels bad, man.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, in Hollywood especially,
just there's nothing, and even

when, like there's, I, I don't know
anything about that movie, the Whale.

Carrie: Oh no.

Emily: Um,

Carrie: don't.

Emily: yeah.

And that sounds like a, just the,
the discussion around that, it sounds

like a horror show in and of itself.

Carrie: The title

Jeremy: I, I'll just go ahead and
put my joke out there, which is, we

talked about when we talked about
Satoshi Cone, his weird antipathy

toward fat people, and Darren Aronofski
ripped him off on that one too.

Emily: Yeah.

yeah, like

Ben: Aronofski even steals his bigotry.

Emily: yeah, I mean, it's,
it's unfortunate too because

like, there's so much there.

There's a lot of discussion
of diversity now.

It's like a big thing now, but the camera,
like whoever's behind the camera is just

still so afraid of wide people and it's,

Carrie: Yeah.

Emily: it, it is ridiculous.

And what, and especially women, I,
I've been watching Yellow Jackets and.

There's a, actress in that who's they
always talk about how she's plus size.

she doesn't read to me
as plus size either.

Like, she just is a normal,
she's not like super skinny.

But bottom line is that we can't really
change those aesthetics unless we do it.

You know, you can't make the excuse.

Well, like, that's just what looks good.

No, what looks good?

This the beauty's in the eye
of the beholder and that's

the, like, art is subjective.

That's the bottom line.

Carrie: Yeah, I absolutely
agree with that.

And there's also the fact that, you know,
beauty is in the eye of the beholder,

but in many cases the eye of the
beholder is the person behind the camera.

So if we can't actually have people,
like behind the camera say, I'm gonna

make this big beautiful person look
fucking gorgeous and have the actual,

you know, fortitude to follow through
with it and make them look gorgeous.

I mean, like, look, not
all of us can be Lizzo.

I'm sorry, I hate it.

I'd love to be Lizzo, but I can't be her.

There can only be one.

It's like I'm getting so tired
of any time like you see that

and how artwork portrays.

Fat people, whether it's in media
of, you know, any type of media

whatsoever, especially in books, my God.

It's just so, it just feels like that,
like I would love to teach a class

on film and say, I'm gonna give you a
person that is not, is not attractive

at all in the conventional way.

And I want you to look, make
them look fucking gorgeous.

The end

Jeremy: Yeah.

Carrie: Sorry.

Jeremy: I, I just wanna, I just wanna
shout out a show that I have been

watching recently, which is Grand Crew,
grand Crew is sort of a, an effort

to do in some ways, a an updated,
you know, living single or you know,

black friends people have called it.

But it has like a much more diverse
cast as far as like body types, uh,

Nicole by is one of sort of the main
group of friends and Carl Tart is, one

of the main group of friends as well.

And they're both, bigger people.

And it's not like it's something
they pretend isn't there.

They don't pretend that, you know,
these guys are, are bigger than the

rest of the group, but they're still.

Cute.

They're still attractive, they're
still friends with these people.

There's not this thing that I, I
think, tends to occur in a lot of these

movies, or, or shows even where it's
like they're friends, but the people

who are fat are like lesser friends.

They're like not on the same
level as the other people.

And it's a real weird thing that uh, has
sort of infected a lot of this stuff.

And I think it's definitely
something that Taika is guilty of

and really rubs me the wrong way.

in, in his stuff.

Emily: Are there, I feel
like there's a little bit of

progress with flag means death.

But again, you know, it's also
very genre and very like, funny.

And they, they certainly can make it
more they, the, you know, decisions

could have been made to make it more
everyone's skinnier or whatever.

But that's another show that has a
lot of that, that really relies on the

talent of the people, you know, and
all of the the ad-libbing that goes on.

Jeremy: And it, it's a question mark on
that one as to like, which came first

thrilled chicken or egg kind of thing.

Because a lot of the characters, the
crew, the extra people on there are sort

of introduced as sort of this motley
crew of ugly scoundrels and sort of

throughout the course of the season,
you get to see more of who they are.

And it's, it's hard to say whether that
is the actors or whether that's having a

writer's room as compared to, you know,
just one person or two people writing

this or having multiple directors.

And it really shows the value of
collaborative storytelling in a

way that, you know, is, is not
always present in a feature film.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Not that they're
not collaborative, but

Emily: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeremy: there's a writer's room as
compared to a writer and a director.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: I think that's, about as
much uh, about as much energy as we

got for taking on this one tonight.

Emily: talk.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Emily: coming to talk

Carrie: Yep.

Emily: the podcast, podcast.

Jeremy: Yes.

Carrie, could you let people know
uh, where they can find you and find

out more about what you do online?

Carrie: They can find me online
everywhere mermaid Shelf.

And you can also find the comic I work
on@kamikazecomic.com and we are all also

on, unfortunately we're on Twitter, but
we are also on Instagram and MAs on.

So if you guys wanna check us
out there, you can find us.

Emily: Awesome.

Jeremy: Being on Twitter is
increasingly like being in water world.

See other people floating by Hello,

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeremy: sea of bullshit.

Alright uh, as for the rest of us,
you can find Emily at Mega Moth

on Twitter and at mega underscore
moth on Instagram and@megamoth.net.

Ben is on Twitter, Ben Macon on their
website@benconcomics.com, where you

can find all their stuff and pre-order.

L Campbell wins their weekend,
which is coming out from Scholastic.

And finally for me, you can find me on
Twitter and Instagram at j Room 58 and

on my website@jeremywhitley.com where
you can check out everything I write,

including picking up the dog night, which
uh, by the time you hear this will be out.

So go get it.

It's from me and Bree Indigo
our, our frequent guest.

Carrie: and it is adorable.

Ben: Yeah,

Carrie: It's so cute.

Ben: It's got doggies and they nights.

Jeremy: absolutely.

Emily: all of the above, baby.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And of course you can find the podcast
on Patreon at progressively horrified our

website@progressivelyhorrified.transistor.fm
and on Twitter at Prague Horror Pod,

where we would love to hear from you.

Speaking of loving to hear from
you, we would love it if you

rate interview the podcast, so,
uh, new listeners can find us.

Thank you so much to Carrie
for joining us tonight.

Carrie: Thank you, so much for having me.

I love this.

I like being your guest.

I thank you.

Emily: We like you being our guest.

Wow.

Wow.

Jeremy: We like it when you be our guest.

As much as I can

Emily: I'm a vampire.

Now it's me as a, as a vampire.

The, I'm inviting you in.

Jeremy: The most invite

Emily: What

Jeremy: Dean.

Carrie: Hmm.

Jeremy: All right, and thanks to
all of you for Always is listening

for What the fuck was that?

Thanks to all of you as
always for listening.

Thanks Ben and Emily for joining me,
and until next time, stay horrified.