Alicia: Hey, just a heads up the episode
you're about to listen to is about

Videotron directed by David Cronenberg
and written by David Cronenberg.

Some relevant trigger warnings
for this movie include misogyny.

Uh, violence against women suicide.

Self-harm racism, ed exoticism,
torture porn and James Woods.

And our host, right?

This movie is.

Huh.

If you'd like to learn more
about the movie, discuss this

evening, please visit our website.

Progressively horrified dot
Truett's sister.fm for show notes.

After the spooky music.

We'll talk about the movie in full.

So before warned, there will be spoilers.

Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast

where we held horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.

Welcome back to Cronember
Crovember, whatever we're calling

it, where we're talking about
the works of David Cronenberg.

Tonight we're talking about the truly
VHS era Body Horror classic Videodrome.

I am your host Jeremy Whitley,
and with me tonight I have a panel

of cinephilesl and Cenobites.

First, they're here to challenge
the sexy werewolf, sexy vampire

binary my co-host Ben Kahn.

Ben, how are you tonight?

Ben: I think the most inspired choice this
movie makes is casting James Woods as its

degenerate scumbag pervert protagonist.

Right?

I do not enjoy James Woods, but that
was some on fucking point casting.

You're ahead of the curve.

Yeah.

Also Trigger Warning James Woods, right?

Yes.

Yes.

Jeremy: And the Cinnamon
Roll of Cenobites.

My co-host Emily Martin.

How are you tonight?

Emily?

Emily: There's so much to
talk about in this movie.

But this movie is like watching
like some HG Wills shit.

It's like if somebody tried to
imagine what it was like to fly and

they're like, What if machines could
fly and also you could fuck them.

Like, It's just so wild.

Jeremy: And our guest night,
my good friend and comic

book artist, Jason Strutz.

Jason, how are you?

Jason: Pretty good.

My my video flesh is exploding with
excitement to talk about this movie.

Ben: Why did that man explode?

Emily: Long live the new flesh.

Ben: Ju Just to get into the
big questions right away.

Why did that man explode?

Jason: Why did the ending
of the movie happen?

Jeremy: We got new sex
from Crimes of the Future.

We got the flesh in the fly and now
we have the new flesh and Videodrome.

Ben: Just one of the many weird ideas
that this movie just kind of throws into

the mix is like, cutting people as sex.

That was so clearly a concept that would
stick with Cronenberg for 40 years.

Hell yeah.

Before he made an entire movie about it.

Jeremy: Still working that one out.

Yeah.

Jason: never say the
man doesn't have themes.

Ben: Four decades.

This man has been wrestling with
the nature of slicing into people

and his sexual feelings about that.

Emily: And also making new organs
that are like evolving you.

Yeah.

Which is also horny.

Yes.

Yeah.

He says a concept.

Ben: There's no way videodrome
and crimes of the future don't

take place in the same timeline.

Right.

Emily: One right after the other.

Jason: This is a, a another
in his early series of things

that grow you, new organs.

Yes.

A few of these to start out
with the shivers, which was all

parasites, slug parasites that
turned you into sex zombies.

And then there was basically
stem cells in a plastic surgery

setting that started rabid.

Yes.

Which is uh, growing a spike
out of your armpit and then like

it would suck people's blood.

So he's always growing new
organs in all the movies.

real new organ guy.

Jeremy: I'm really sad that we're
not getting to rabid and the

terror of women with armpit Dicks.

That's really, that's the,

Jason: it's such an awkward place
to have a, blood sucking penis.

Ben: Again, not, I know
we're not talking about it.

I think Crimes of the Future might be
the ultimate Cronenberg movie if only

for combining his body horror era with
his works with Viggo Mortensen era.

Jason: Per perhaps we don't know that
the people in Crimes of the future did

not have like five or six new organs.

Emily: I mean, one of them did.

Jason: It could've been there.

Yeah, it could have had all of them.

It's like the end game of
Cronenberg movies where all

the organs show up at the end.

Emily: Have you seen Crimes in the Future?

Jason: I haven't seen all of it.

Emily: Okay.

Cuz you just described spoilers.

Jason: like it.

All right.

Ben: Nailed it!

Emily: That's the plot!

Jason: I went back in his
filmography as opposed to forward.

Mm.

Ben: imagine just like that
run that Cronenberg has in

like a 10 year time span.

He does shivers, scanners,
Videodrome, and the fly.

And then I guess in 1987 he just
like wakes up from a haze and

is like, I'm done with that now.

Like I'm, This is becoming way
too much of who I am and I need

to go make a naked lunch now.

Jason: Yes.

I

Emily: don't know if that's too
divergent from the Cronenberg Thema.

The Naked

Jason: lunch, but there was yeah, there
was a progression there from naked,

from Shrs to history of violence.

Okay.

Emily: Assets.

Ben: Yeah.

It took him a while.

Like you still, you know, you still
got like M Butterfly in between,

in that era when he was like,
it, it was a gradual come down.

Yeah, yeah,

Jason: yeah.

So I, I haven't watched his newer
stuff being more interested in these

types of his movies, so it's good to
hear that perhaps Crimes of the Future

is something I should be watching.

Yeah.

Oh my God, it's 100.

Ben: We had a bit of a it was a bit of a
minority report situation going on where

it was like a two V one on that episode.

Me and Emily were big into
vibes and Jeremy was like, Yeah,

but what's the fucking story?

? That's

Jason: optional.

The big

Jeremy: difference between this,
between Crimes of the Future and

all the movies that are kind of
like Crimes of the Future from the

eighties, is that kind of the future?

He was like, But what if
I just didn't have a plot?

What if it was just the ideas and the
vibes ? Do I really need to have a story

Ben: here?

And I would argue he didn't.

No.

Like how the vibes were enough?

I'm sorry.

We should actually talk about
Videodrome instead of just making

this Crimes of the future part two.

Yeah.

Well

Emily: this, I mean, Videodrome
is Crimes of the Future.

Part one on it really

Ben: is, Let's be real.

I mean,

Jeremy: there are, are several,
I don't know if this is one of

them, but apparently Crimes of the
Future was a title that he almost

used for several different movies.

There was

Jason: a, he did, he

Ben: did a crime scene.

He did Make Crimes of the Future in 1970.

And then, like that title so much, he
just fucking reused it 50 years later.

Jason: Yeah.

It's not a remake, it's not a update.

It's just the same title.

Yeah.

.
Ben: Yeah.

Well, speaking of this story, OK Madla,
we stand and othered Twitter lingo.

Bullshit.

Well,

Jeremy: speaking of this story, Emily
is John the, she drew the short straw

for, to do the recap on this one.

So Emily, give it a shot.

All right,

Emily: so you got this.

This is the Videodrome
directed by David Corona Burn.

And Righted.

Righted by David Cronenberg
and starring James Woods.

Debbie Harry, Yes.

That Debbie Harry.

Ben: And what a real thumbs down
to thumbs up on that call sheet.

Yeah, I know that was, that's

Emily: some fucking whiplash right there.

So

Ben: real James Woods Boo.

Debbie Harry.

Oh, fuck.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

And Sonia Smits.

Among others I didn't see who played
Braley, but we'll get to that.

So, Oh, we'll

Ben: get to Braley

.
Emily: Our film begins with Max Ren.

He is an average TV producer.

He runs Civic tv, which is a misleading
title for his niche porn channel.

Channel 83.

This is maybe the future, I don't know.

It's the future of whatever
time it was written.

I think it

Ben: just Toronto.

It

Jason: is Toronto.

Yeah.

Emily: Yeah.

It's Toronto.

It Toronto 20.

Yeah.

Complete with still

Jason: the path remission years later.

Yeah.

Emily: So, Max is everything you'd expect.

He's this white smart ass with
zero class and fewer scribbles.

He's a total slob in
asshole and James Woods.

Yeah.

He starts his day with meeting with the
Japanese producer from Hiroshima video.

And while their dialogue is
surprisingly and thank goodness free

of gong sounds, the racism abounds
as Max and his committee deemed

the Japanese porn is two vanilla.

Max meets up with his egg Ego
spender, Spangler lookalike

TV pirate, Buddy Harlan.

Harlan might be Latinx or
he might just be calling.

James would put thrown like
constantly because he likes to.

We're not sure.

We never find out why.

Harlan alerts Max to a possibly
Malaysian torture porn show that he

uns scrambles from his satellite.

Max is intrigued now it's talk show time.

Live TV Host Re King has Max
on her panel today, along

with erotic radio personality.

Nicky played by Debbie Harry
who is the host of Cram Radio,

Excuse me, C Ram Radios quote
unquote emotional rescue show.

And the other guest is
Professor Brian o Bivian.

He is a man on tv.

He won't appear on TV except on tv.

And he appears via a TV set, which
is very futuristic for the time.

Zoom has not been invented or has.

Brian Oblivion says some wacky
shit like soon all of us will

have special names that will cause
the cathode ray tube to resonate.

Was he talking about internet handles?

You'd be the judge.

Max, you said this occasion to harass
Nikki on live tv that's so professional

you guys later Harlan reveals that the
torch porn show is not in fact from

the exotic and mysterious Malaysia,
but rather the exotic and mysterious

Pittsburgh that's in the usa.

By the way, Nikki and Max have their
first date, and Nikki is down to clown.

She asked to watch some casual porn
and Max throw on one of Hart's excuse

me, Harlan's Pirate recordings,
which now have a name video

drill.

Emily: Nicky is super into it and
wants to do some knife play, and Max

has called on the carpet for being
a lot more vanilla than he claims.

He concedes to some erotic ear piercing
and things get psychedelic for a moment.

Are you ready for it to
get more psychedelic?

Ben: Wait.

No, but naked James Woods
pierced my ears at a mall.

Did he?

That that scene felt very relatable.

. Oh no.

,
Emily: That's a real, Or, but that's over.

Now enter Maha, who is Max's next
oversee, oversees porn contact and

Ben: my favorite character in the movie.

Emily: A classy Dame Super classy
day with high standards and

Max immediately tasks her with
digging up the dets of Videodrome.

Max and Nicki have another date Number.

Question mark.

A question mark And Nikki announces
that she is already on target

for auditioning for Videodrome.

Apparently it doesn't occur to Max
to ask Nikki what he asked of Maha.

He is too busy telling
her what's best for her.

Nikki is all challenge accepted and
does more pain play with Max further

offending Max with her own body autonomy.

Maha then meets Max as at a
restaurant with more exoticism

and a similar conversation.

Ensues.

Maha tells Max Videodrome
is too hardcore for him.

It's not a production.

You see, it's real.

Max is all Now I've never heard a reality.

Just nobody does that.

And after lots of pleading
Marcia's finally like, Fine.

She gives him a name.

Professor Brian o Bivian Max checks
into the local cad ray mission, a

charitable question mark establishment
that provides the needy with access

to television, so that can be
plugged back into the switchboard,

quote unquote, Another such jargon.

Apparently this is where wood
finds Professor Brian Oblivian,

or at least his daughter, Bianca.

Bianca speaks almost entirely
in metaphor like her dad.

She also says, and I quote, My father has
not engaged in conversation in 20 years.

The monologue is his
preferred form of discourse.

Yeah.

Join the club.

This is the only thing, huh?

It's in

Ben: relatable.

Yeah.

Yes.

Also, remember, this is 1980s television.

This is all like Wheel of Fortune shit.

It's not like they're sending
people down and go like, here.

Now watch all with season one of Atlanta.

Like, you know, it's not good

Emily: tv.

They're watching Wheel of
Fortune and videos of surgery.

I don't know.

It's Cronenberg.

So yeah, this whole thing about her dad
doing monologues all the time is the

only thing that she says that is literal.

James Woods drops the names Videodrome
and she's like, I never heard of that.

And he's like, Fine.

And he o's out.

But things are getting really weird.

So Max does the most irrational
thing by introducing a firearm

to the equation as if on cue his
secretary Bridey delivers some tapes

and he hallucinates that he hit her.

and also she's Nicky.

She's concerned, but he ushers it
out acting in no way suspicious.

But hey, he got a response from Brian
o Oblivian after some philosophical

declarations, the prof tells Max that
he's tripping balls because of Videodrome.

He explains that Videodrome may
or may not cause a literal tumor.

And then he has strangled his murderer
shows, ends up to be Nicky, who makes

Max's tv p sa sexually, and he makes
out with it back at the mission.

Max shows up and he is like, Bianca,
what the fuck your tape made me

trip balls and make out with my tv?

And she is like, No shit.

And then explains, explains that Professor
Oblivion has been dead for months and all

that is left of him is archive footage.

Then she reveals that Videodrome is
actually a signal that can be worked

into anything and can induce tumors,
which are actually new org organs.

That further.

Mankind's evolution,
human instrumentality.

And the pro, The professor created the
signal to help mankind evolve human

instrumentality, but his evil partners
wants to use it for nefarious purposes.

And then when he
resisted, they killed him.

He also says things like
public television, Excuse me.

He also says things like, public
life on television is more real

than private life in the flesh.

And of course, who can forget?

The battle for the mind of North America
will be fought in the video arena.

The Videodrome.

Yay.

It's the title.

Okay, so Max watches more.

Brian Oblivion exposition footage
with the knowledge that it may cause

brain damage and hallucinations
while playing with his gun.

Does you hate it when you lose
your gun in your stomach Vagina.

It's also a very relatable situation.

I don't know if, I don't know
about you guys, but anyway,

Ben: to keep Oh, yeah.

I, I gun finger my stomach
vagina all the time.

Nothing more

Emily: American.

Yeah.

Ben: at this point.

At this point.

It's his foreplay.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

. So while trying to wash down his
lost gun with liquor, some asshole

named Barry Convex calls and
summits Max to, to his waiting limo.

Max goes, because of course it's
the best idea to go to a second

location after you've swallowed your
gun in your vagina in your stomach.

And he he shortly commences to the
limo where a Barry is not present

but communicates via tv, like
fucking everyone does in this movie.

Barry Convex represents Spectacular
Optical, a company that makes glasses

and middle missile guidance systems, and.

Videodrome Lowell.

He's a corporate citizen that does not
meet Max in the flesh in a swank mar

colored metropolitan high rise, but in a
humble eyewear storefront, this is normal.

Barry tells Max that his super
seventies upside down fancy magic

glasses don't work with his face shape.

And he's right, but he suggests
something more delicate, you

know, like a full VR headset.

But this headset records hallucinations.

The scene is super wild.

So here's Max and he's finally
airing some second thoughts.

He's not concerned about the health
and safety of the hallucinating

and hallucination and tumor causing
technology, but rather his ability to

maintain IP writes over his dreams.

Yeah, it tracks.

Max agrees to get into the helmets.

Chingy and Barry literally says You
might have some residual hallucinations

for a day, but just enjoy it.

Like you enjoyed the losing
your gun in your vagina.

And

Jason: not losing.

If you know where it is,

,
Emily: I mean it's in there somewhere.

Story.

Ben: It's total like an oversized purses
where you just gotta dig around for

a while, like, you know, it's there.

A tors, someone holding.

Yeah, there's my stone.

The gun, the new organ.

Jason: It's eventually

Ben: That's true.

It's some real.

When did a Kira come out?

Emily: After that or maybe before that?

I'm not sure.

Anyway, it came out

Ben: for no, 88.

Oh wow.

After,

Emily: Wow.

Amazing.

Ben: Especially good on you for doing this
kind of like meat plus machine imagery.

Like before a Kira you get credit for
it actually being original Cronenberg.

Emily: Oh, yeah.

O Tomo has a lot of Cronenberg
and his portfolio, or not his

portfolio, but you know, his

Ben: Inspiration Mind book.

Jason: Yes.

At this point, videotapes themselves have
only been around for six, seven years.

So

Emily: he was Yes.

Early.

And I'm pretty sure a bunch of the
tapes that are pictured in the film.

Are Beta Max tapes?

They

Jason: are Beta Max tapes.

I I of course bought the Blueray up for
this and listened to some commentary.

They chose Beta Max because the
cassettes were smaller to fit in Tommies.

Ben: Yes.

I think one thing that's super, super
key to any level of analyzing or talking

about this film is acknowledging that
Brian obl, that Cronenberg studied under

Marshall McCluen at University of Toronto.

Brian Oblivian is directly based
off Marshall McCluen who famously

said the medium is the message.

And boy is that not just like
this movie writ large, right?

Emily: Yeah.

So, this movie has as much as it is dated.

The the commentary on
mass media is on point.

But let's get back into the thick of it.

Barry puts the the helmet on
James Woods and says here, A

little s and m might trigger a
healthy series of hallucinations.

And with that, he leaves Max alone in
the back of the glasses shop to trip

balls and hallucinate that he is whipping
up pulsating TV with Nicki on it.

Oh wait, is that Maha?

But it was just a dream, or was it
as max or coils in mild confusion to

the corpse of Maia in his bed with
him, he calls Harlan in a panic.

Cuz he needs a second pair
of eyes to confirm whether or

not there's a body in his bed.

Also if you drink every time Harlan
says Patone, you too may shit a gun.

Harlan and Max have a very socially
intimate moment before we cut

to their meeting at the lab.

Then Harlan reveals that there
is no Videodrome broadcast.

He was just showing max some tapes at
the behest of Barry Convex Dun dun dun.

They are using Max to get to his gross
depraved TV station that they hate

on, but also want so bad that they
penetrate Max's stomach with stomach

vagina, with a pulsating tape and turn
him into a Arian candidate and tell

him to kill his partners at sy tv.

Max finds his gun in his stomach
again, and it melts into his flash.

Like, Teo, the Iron Man,
which came out after this.

And he dutifully kills his partners
with very little subtlety, with Bridey.

His secretaries on Wooding help.

He escapes the scene to
go kill Bianca Oblivion.

But Bianca is like, Oh, ho, ho
you finally come to kill me.

And Max is like, What?

No.

But Bianca uses her psychedelic video
powers to shoot the program out of Max and

reverse him back on Harry on, excuse me,
and reverse him back on Barry and Harlan.

She says things like they're
playing you like a tape.

Ha ha, get it.

Also Bianca tells Max that
Nikki is dead because of Barry.

And Barry killed the prof.

No shit.

And finally the most important
line, Death to Videodrome.

Long.

Live.

The new flash.

Jason: New flash

Emily: with this mantra Max goes
back to on the hunt for Barry.

He finds Harlan at the glasses store
and Harlan tries to penetrate him

with another flash tape, but Max grabs
his hand with his stomach vagina like

Ray Iami, and, and turns it into a
flash grenade, which explodes Harlan.

Ben: Oh, that's why he exploded.

Emily: Yeah, it became, it.

That was that was . I

Ben: did not, but I just thought
that was a weird way to show

someone's hand getting, getting

Jeremy: off.

It's the max had minds in

Jason: his stomach.

Yeah, it's, Did it not get
World War One grenade style?

Yeah.

Ben: It's okay.

Well, now I know why he exploded

Yeah.

Do you though, I obviously
thought, truly thought James

Woods exploded him with his mind.

Anything's possible.

Did just, Yeah.

Through Halluc in some ways.

Yes.

Does this movie know
what hallucinations are?

?
Emily: Yes, because we're not sure
what is, What is a hallucination?

That's the whole thing.

The new flesh is the reality
of the television guys.

Whoa.

Okay.

So Max then goes to the Glasses
convention to find Barry after a Buck

Wild Renaissance burlesque number with
both guys and gals, very important.

Barry takes the ballroom stage to
introduce his new Medi Mechi collection.

Max then kills him with his flash gun
and recites his new mantra into the mic.

and then escapes while Barry
explodes into a flesh, monster.

Sorry that this part
is so confusing to me.

I can't even get into the flesh.

Ben: Yeah.

Like this is not even there
to be hallucinating it.

Yeah.

I don't

Emily: any, Yeah.

The reality is the mind of projecting
what the television tells it to project.

Now his dark errand complete max
retires to a condemned boat where he

finds the pulsating TV featuring Nicky.

She instructs him to embrace the
new flesh by killing the old flesh

and shows them a video of him
shooting himself with his flesh gun.

The video makes the TV explode with
guts because apparently now everything

explodes with guts for reasons.

Flesh.

Yes.

And the new

Ben: flesh

Emily: explodes.

Yeah.

It's what it, what it does.

Ben: Even rules are way cooler.

Emily: And with that, Fully
convinced James Woods mimics what

he sees on the television and with
the words, Oh, hail the new flesh.

He shoots himself question mark with
the gun as he pulls the trigger, we

fade to black the end, Or is it, it is.

Jason: Who

Ben: is it?

I will never to The future happened.

A mo I will never say that.

A movie that ends with James Woods
getting shot in the head has a bad ending.

That's a good ending.

No matter the movie, If Spy Kids Too
had ended with James Woods just suddenly

showing up to get shot in the face,
I'd be like, Great ending spy kids too.

Emily: I just wanna say something, and
this is, this is something that I may

have mentioned before and I apologize
if I did because I, I apologize for

bringing this up, but, okay, so you
know how James Woods plays Hades.

In Hercules.

Right.

I do know

Jason: how

Ben: that And in Kingdom

Emily: hearts, Yes.

This is where I'm going.

He plays him like this.

Jason: Yes.

So he he also played the the
moon guy mascot for McDonald's.

No make needed just the long face.

That was Doug Jones just looks like him.

It was Doug Jones.

That's

Emily: great.

Yes.

That was actually Doug

Jason: Jones.

I kept seeing his face in the
movie and just imaginate and get

slightly taller and paint it white.

And he could be the moon man.

Oh, that.

Yeah.

He

Emily: does have a very moon
like face, which is reflected

with the Hades character.

Yes.

But so James Woods does the voice
acting for Hades in Kingdom Hearts now.

In Kingdom Hearts too.

The the Hercules level is changed.

First it was the arena where you'd
have your like shit, what's that

movie with the Ridley Scott movie?

Gladiator, Gladiator,

,
Ben: alien.

The Prometheus the alien.

Prometheus.

Fight Alien, Pro Covenant Prometheus.

You, you

Emily: go, you go to Kingdom Hearts
and you have the, the Prometheus Arena.

That's what people walk
into things, right?

Yeah.

And you, everyone takes their helmet off.

But but in kingdom hearts too,
Hades takes over and everyone

fights in the under drum.

Ben: Oh, that's great.

Oh, I forgot that he
called it the under drum.

And when

Emily: I heard him say under drum it like,
I suddenly, he like put the tape in my

stomach cuz I'm suddenly, I'm like the

Ben: new flesh.

He knew what he was fucking doing.

I'm like,

Emily: Kingdom

Ben: Mars.

The best part about.

Hercules and Kingdom Hearts is that it's
the one world that shows up in every game.

So at this point, Hercules has
recurred enough that it's not like,

Ooh, we're visiting Hercules World.

It's like, Hey, here's Hercules So's
HBO friend who hangs out with him a lot.

Emily: Some great years with,

Jeremy: Hercules has appeared
more in Kingdom Hearts than he

has in Disney merchandising.

So yeah.

I don't know, guys.

I think if we do a drinking
game with this, we should

definitely drink Patron, right?

Like,

Ben: I think

Emily: that's, that's part of the
mini like concepts that this movie is

presenting to us, is that there's also
this hidden drinking game where you have

to drink Patron when he says Patron.

And then when we do that, that proves.

What they say about how the television
projects reality and the public

television reality is more real
than the reality of the flesh.

Ben: I mean, I do feel like this movie's
easy out for all of it's like, why did

this weird, like crazy thing happen?

Is will you, the audience are
hallucinating by watching the movie

because the movie is reality hallucination
and it can just fucking aura bar us.

Its way until you get confused,
until you're like, Wait a minute, I

still don't know why the fuck that
man just turned into a tumor monster

.
Emily: Yeah, there's so many ideas that
people are spouting like the Jeremy that

review that you heard about Crimes of the
Future, where they're like, everyone's

just telling Ted Talks to each other.

And this is very similar where
people show up and they're like,

I, here is my philosophy, but.

It's true.

Everyone has a monologing
is their medium model.

Locking is their medium.

They haven't had a
conversation in 20 years.

Ben: I'm still not the

Jeremy: commentary on

Ben: Cronenberg

Jeremy: from Cronenberg,

Ben: right?

Like do I understand the
villains plan correctly?

Like their plan was to broadcast
this hallucination tumor video.

So anybody who is just like, Ooh,
torture porn, I wanna see that would

just get like a tumor and that somehow
protects, makes the west stronger from.

I'm gonna guess China,
Iran, Russia, I don't know.

Mark.

Jason: You drive the people who
would be inter, it's a honey pot.

They're like putting out this like bowl
of, of s and m to attract those people and

then bring them in, make them hallucinate,
and then yeah, that's where we get profit.

A little bit

Ben: lost, I think, I think I get

Jason: it from, are we hoping
that they kill themselves?

Are these or is it that the brain
tumor nuts, jobs, like using the

medium against, against the people.

Emily: I, I think that this, they're
trying to be able to program people.

and weaponize them, because that's
the most literal thing that happened

with James Woods, is that he was
programmed they used metaphor of

flesh tapes inserted into his stomach
vagina, to represent the program.

Mm-hmm.

. But I mean, this is basically like some

Ben: there is one line that the
fucking Glasses boss has about

how it's like we make glasses
and also missile guidance system.

And I feel like that one line is supposed
to be like the thread we unravel and we're

like, Ooh, we can just pin this all on.

Like, Yeah.

Crazy mil antico, like Cold
War militarization stuff.

Jason: the grand idea.

Like they wanna get
this television station.

So they really just have to get
max out of the way to gain control

of this television station.

I really think if they,
if they did that, then.

There, there would have to be a bunch
of people in vans running around

tossing Beta Max tapes into everybody's
stomachs to reprogram them like

they have to go find these people.

This

Ben: was such a round about

Jason: infrastructure that needs to be set

Emily: up.

Well, I think the idea is that once
they have it on the airwaves, then

they, it's not a matter of inserting
a tape because the, the tape thing and

the gun thing and all that was pretty
clearly hallucinatory, except when he

exploded Harlan because that he totally
exploded the shit out of that building.

Ben: But the thing about
that was it was act three.

So we had rules in Act one and two, but
by act three, I mean, what are you gonna

fucking, do you want rules in act three?

Yeah.

I

Emily: mean, you could say that there,
that may have been an explosion.

I mean, people outside seemed a
little bit, I mean, again, reality

subjective, This is the whole thing of
like, this is what the show is saying.

But Like the Videodrome, the tapes that
he was shown, he was, it was the literal

thing that was happening with him.

With, Let me start over.

Harlan and Barry were showing him
the tapes in order to program him.

And then once they had access to his
station, then they would broadcast the

signal, and then they could program
anybody to become whatever they want.

Now, I think Brian Oblivion whole thing
was that he's like, I want the, I want

to use the signal to make people more
aware, but that's really not, like,

that's the part that I'm confused about
is like Brian Oblivion made the signal

in order to give people new organs,
but his buddies, well, they, they

also

Jeremy: say that his daughter
says that she thinks the signal

was created by the tumor.

and that, that's where like the
original Videodrome tapes come from.

And then the, like the cancer is
then transmitted through the tapes.

Ben: Yeah.

They say if you watch it,
you get a brain tumor.

Jeremy: Yeah.

So this is this is this is
what was, I guess played.

This is

Ben: us trying to, this man's head
totally unravel the plot of video.

Dr.

Ands not going great.

Here's

Jeremy: the really important question to
me Is is Maha dead or is she live still?

She finds somewhere.

Jason: I think she's fine.

She's, Yeah.

I think that was that
waiter she was making eyes

Ben: at.

I want Maha, like I need the
spinoff of Maha, the Pornographer.

Detective

.
Emily: I would love that.

Maha, the Pornographer detective.

And then like Brawley takes over
the um, this spectacular optical or

Jason: whatever because yeah,

Jeremy: we didn't mention
Braley really in the recap.

Braley was Alicia's favorite character
and she wanted, she very specifically

asked all of us to talk about him.

We have

Ben: to, I have to, I
have Braley in my notes.

We have to talk about Broley.

Jeremy: Yeah.

He is a, a Jamaican man who works at
the storefront for the glasses store.

We only meet.

One time, as James Wood is Woods,
is preparing to kill this man

who's turns out to not be there.

He is a spectacularly helpful glasses
salesman who is also incredibly

personable, which is really noticeable
in a movie full of James Woods.

Ben: I really tried, I could not,
he's not in the other credits.

I couldn't find I to be, I really
did try to find out who the

actor that played Brawley was.

Cuz I really wanted to know was
this a Jamaican actor or did David

Cronenberg tell the one person of
color in this film to do a super

over the top Jamaican accent?

Yeah.

Emily: I mean this movie

Ben: and I feel it's really
important and I, cuz I feel like it

matters a lot on which one it was.

Yeah.

Jason: Toronto is a, is a melting pot.

But also, I don't have to
give Cronenberg any credit.

Like based on his his writing of the
line while they're watching the, the

oriental port in the beginning they

Ben: say straight up Oriental sex.

Yeah.

That is a line in the movie.

Yeah.

Emily: They don't just say Oriental sex.

I'm so sorry.

You know, I'm saying, Sorry.

Yes, we are.

Ben: Sorry.

We're we bleep this out.

Alicia bleep us please.

I mean, we're, I don't
know what our policy is.

They say it in the mo, Oh,
this is not going what?

Great bad.

Oh.

Emily: They say Oriental sex, is
unnatural in the film, which is

Jason: said by a guy who is probably
as crappy as James Woods is, Where

Ben: do they think all of Asia comes from?

But yeah, totally

Jason: unnecessary line.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

What?

I don't, I don't like it.

It's, You don't need that there.

Nothing.

Nothing necessitates

Ben: A few more things about.

This character who is only
credited as Japanese Pornographer.

He is played by David Su Ucci, who
he's got a great, great story, was

a former politician in Ontario.

Mm-hmm.

. So

Jason: had to answer for appearing
in this movie a lot, apparently.

Yeah.

Ben: Oh God, That makes a lot of sense.

You probably regret, he probably
greatly regrets doing this movie.

Also, one of my favorite moments in
the movie is when he goes like, No,

you can't watch my porn out of order.

You won't understand the story.

Emily: I mean, I feel,
I feel for that man.

I feel for both

Jason: those men.

I am curious what the story line
was that led to the what part?

13 that they watched.

Yeah.

Which is

Ben: 13 part 0.0 series.

Yeah.

Jeremy: With a girl, partly Samurai.

Do.

And then presumably uses
it to pleasure herself?

Jason: Well,

Emily: its, it's basically with

kimono

Ben: on it, apparently heavily
serialized 13 part porn series.

Yeah.

Emily: And it's, I mean, it is

Jeremy: classy.

I did find a very great
piece of information.

Brawley is played by Henry Gomez, who
is known professionally as King Cosmos.

He is a Trinidadian and to
Tobago Canadian musician acting.

Oh, in

Ben: educator fucking fantastic.

Jeremy: Born and raised
Princess Town, Trinidad,

Ben: in this case.

Bro's.

The fucking man, co braley.

Hell yeah.

Canada's best fuck Caribbean.

Okay, we're go Cronenberg, you're
good in our book quite a bit.

Cronenberg.

Well, let's, I'm doing good.

Crony bra.

Jason: Yeah,

.
Ben: You're doing derk crony.

Jason: But, but as an employee it
bra needs a raise and a promotion.

And like he's probably the only person
keeping that glasses front going.

Yeah.

Ben: However much they are spending
for that fucking convention.

Kind of fucking Wolf of
Wall Street Coke Party.

Fucking like cabaret
convention thing is this.

Jason: I want more stage show dancing
at the conventions that I go to.

That would be great.

I was very happy to see that
it was, was men and women.

And, and men had the

Ben: lead that was their artist

Jason: alley chest hair coming out.

It was great.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

This, there was a very, there was at
least quality of that gaze, I think

Ben: of that moment.

The producer sticking the video tape
into James Woods is probably the

queerest thing we've gotten in a j like
in any of our Cronenberg movies so far.

I,

Emily: Okay, so there's that scene
where James Woods invites Harlans,

or where Max invites Harlan over.

Ben: I'm just calling him James

Emily: Woods.

I don't care.

Sure.

Yeah.

He invites Harlan over and
he's like, did I do a murderer?

And Harlan's like, No,
I have my SLR camera.

Which is interesting that you
want SLR for this evidence, cuz I

would have to develop that film.

Like, I wouldn't know immediately
unless I knew, unless I saw a fuck.

I don't know.

Anyway, I don't know what, there's
a lot of crazy logic, but then they

have an argument and then as they
deescalate the argument, James was like,

Okay, I'll tell you what's going on.

Just please meet me at the lab.

I'm so sorry, I yelled at you.

And then Harlan's like,
Oh no, it's, I'm sorry.

I, I I freaked out.

And they're like yeah, I don't
work with you for the money.

Oh yeah, no, it's cool dude.

I mean, we like, do you want coffee?

Actually no.

Let's, let's, And it's this very like
randomly human moment in this movie

where everyone's like, Live the new

Ben: flesh.

Well also, like they talk
about like satellite pirates.

And before you get like your twist
reveal that Harland works for Videodrome,

it really implies that there's.

This whole eighties VHS hackers
type subculture going on in video.

I mean, there is, there was,
which would've been cool.

That's, that's true.

I just really liked how deep into,
maybe this is just me being like, I

saw hackers, so therefore any kind of
hacking reminds me of the movie Hackers.

Emily: I mean, that's valid.

Ben: Getting real Boss baby
vibes but by far my favorite part

about that scene is Harlan being
like, I know I'm hallucinating.

I therefore need a second unbiased,
non hallucinating opinion.

And yet when hold I'm hallucinating.

I will refuse to believe it.

Yeah.

Emily: I'm like, you

Ben: called him there.

You know, you can't beat your eyes,
can't be trusted, and yet you're

still like, like James Woods.

What the fuck are you doing?

That's why you called him.

Why are you arguing

Emily: with him for the kind of asshole
and like misogynistic bastard He is.

He sure?

Yes.

Ands a lot.

Ben: Oh man, he is so unevenly.

Like just such a fucking sleazeball.

Like there's just so much casual workplace
harassment that isn't commented on.

It's just background.

This may had been

Jeremy: 10, been made 10 years later.

That would be Dennis Miller in that part.

.
Ben: Oh my God.

It absolutely would've been Dennis Miller.

Jeremy: Also, I just wanna
point out Emily, you said he was

maturing candidate, but seeing his
venturian, Ur is a region of China.

I think he was actually
Ontarian candidate.

Emily: Oh yeah, sorry.

And you know, man, candidate is
a misnomer and it's not, Yeah,

it's a, it's outdated term.

Ben: I was like watching the

Emily: candidate is actually pretty good.

Ben: Cronenberg rights and the way.

James Woods plays it.

I can only imagine what like a
godsend revelation Jeff Goldblum

must have been for Cronenberg.

Like I would love to see Koberg
the first time he saw Jeff Gold,

where he is like finally someone
who can make this character type

likable some good fucking food.

Yeah, like, you know, it's like he's
writing the same kinda like nervous

ticks character, but whereas like
there is like not super likable, but

still just like undeniably charismatic
and charming coming from gold plum.

It is just pure fucking greasy
sleeves coming from James Woods.

I

Emily: mean, it's appropriate though,
like he again is that character

Ben: a hundred percent again, like
this isn't, again, it needs to be

likable cuz the fly is supposed to
be a tragedy even if, I don't think

it really pulls off those elements.

So like, as well as it should.

This movie doesn't want you
feeling bad for James Woods.

Emily: No, it really doesn't.

And

Ben: it doesn't have sympathy for him.

Yeah.

Yes, he might be the protagonist,
but it gives you no reason to wanna

necessarily root for him, especially as
like he isn't a character with agency.

He just keeps getting ping pong between
these like mind control conspiracies.

Emily: He is very dumb
of us in a, in a bad way.

Because you know, there's a lot
of very charming characters that

are out there that are, that are
dumb of ass but also big of heart.

Is

Ben: not either, he is, his

Emily: heart is, has no heart.

His heart has gotten, his heart

Ben: is as small as his mind.

Jeremy: only thing he's capable of
loving is Debbie Harry and a TV set,

which, God, we've all been there.

Right.

Ben: Okay.

We again, big mood, great.

Loves Debbie Harry in a TV set.

Debbie Harry goes to Pittsburgh to
audition for Videodrome a what does she

think in audition for Videodrome is like,
Does she think this is something she needs

her agent to set up And they are they
actually even doing shit in Pittsburgh?

I thought that was just a lie.

They told James Woods, What the
fuck is she going to find in

Emily: Pittsburgh?

I think she was in on it.

Like, I think she was, she was part of it.

Or she was like immediately
secreted away by Barry or something.

Cuz I mean they, Bianca told
Max that they killed her.

Who the fuck knows cuz Bianca's like
also got crazy Videodrome powers.

And to, I think she essentially
programs Max to kill himself.

Ben: Like, I need the spinoff
that just before that, Debbie

Harry wandering Pittsburgh asking
bemused, confused Pittsburgh locals

where the torture porn studio is.

Jason: Where the Videodrome you mean?

Where the where the Steelers play?

No.

Ben: Why Pittsburgh?

They put so much focus on that.

It's filmed in Pittsburgh.

Jason: She's, she's effectively as a
character out of the movie, unfortunately.

Really early.

Yeah, I do.

It would've been nice to have her,
show up in the flesh more often.

Oh yeah.

Cause I enjoyed her characters.

She's the only person who seemed
like, seemed like more of a real

person, had had like her own thoughts
before meeting Max slash James Woods.

Like she.

She knew what she was into.

I didn't get the, the read that she was
into that, that she was involved with

Videodrome, but that's totally possible.

Okay.

You know, I I, I, I
mostly just bought that.

She went to go find Videodrome
maybe Ooh, Maha and her teamed

up that for the detective.

Detective is

Jeremy: the movie I wanna

Emily: see.

Yeah, for sure.

Cuz Oh, it's really weird because we,
we cut away from James Woods harassing

Maha after telling her that he won't
air her Classy Dsis in Apollo porn,

which looks like actually really cool.

You know, it's like a, you

Ben: know, I watch that
with the curtains drawn.

Emily: Hell yeah.

Like, you know, some cool shit.

That one,

Jason: Was unfortunately
not on the, on the blueray.

They.

The, the whole of the the
Samurai Dreams video on that.

Did they

Ben: fucking really?

Holy shit.

They did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's, that's awesome.

Also this is a very niche joke, Alicia,
if you cut this, I'll super get it.

One of the producers is Pierre David,
who I immediately thought, Oh, that's

the writer of French Hulk and the fact X

.
Emily: Is that true?

Is that like a

Ben: thing?

No, I'm just making fun of it.

It's like Pierre David.

That must be French.

Peter David.

Yeah.

So he just does all the things Peter David
does, but French, that is a nice joke,

Emily: but

Ben: I think Joey needs joke.

Alicia, you should probably cut this.

That's a great

Jeremy: work phone says

Jason: it's a great joke
for the right people.

Ben: Yeah.

Emily: Which is important because you
need you know, multilingual signage

in Canada and it has to be in French.

Anyway, so.

So, speaking of racism, did anyone
catch the line about that, that James

Woods uses about how in Brazil you
can get executed for making crazy

videos, like underground videos?

So in Pittsburgh, who knows?

Ben: like, Yeah.

Jeremy: I mean, I am Same feelings,

Ben: location's of is, right?

Like, is that a slam on
Pittsburgh or Brazil?

Emily: Yeah.

I don't know.

There's, I know that there's racism in
there, but like, like a lot of things in

this movie, I'm like, hold, I gotta really
like reach in there to find that that

Ben: gun is that like, it's like, well
that's what they'll tell you in Brazil.

So imagine the fucking degen and bets bug

.
Jason: Like what?

I mean the only thing worse
would be being tortured.

So basically for making Videodrome,
you will be Videodromed.

Emily: Yeah.

Which is

Jason: getting machine video.

Drone is a flat

Emily: circle.

It is like time.

I'll long live the new

Ben: True Detective

Emily: season.

Yes.

. But yeah, so like James Woods is
harassing Maia after like, being

really, really dismissive of her.

And then he's like, Oh, I'll,
I'll fuck you if you do this

thing for me, I'll play your show.

And she's like, Oh my God.

Yes.

Excuse you.

That's cute.

Anyway, she asks he, or excuse me, he
asks her these questions, and then fucking

Nicky is like, I know exactly who they
are and I'm gonna go see them tomorrow.

And then he's like, Dylan,
you can't forget the best

Ben: part of the mosy of that scene
of Maia at lunch when she says like,

You're too old for me, James Woods.

And then just, I bangs
the fuck out of the way

Emily: to Oh, bless her heart.

Amazing.

Bless her heart.

Ben: Maha's my fucking hero.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

Like super in charge.

Doesn't take shit.

Classy as fuck.

Ben: I need more of this
porno Detective Gael to

Emily: Yes.

Ben: She and Nicki Koen Burke, I
will buy the license from Maia off.

You can I do that?

,
Emily: Maia, Maha and Nicki solve
the porn crimes of the future.

Ooh.

Ooh.

But that one's, that's taken, That sounds

Ben: like a skin aax, crime, procedural.

And I would write, and I would
both either write or watch

Emily: it or both.

You know, it's important to
be, to watch your own material.

Ben: I know they say, Oh, I
can't, I know people, they say,

Oh, I can't read my own stuff.

I hate my own stuff.

Fuck it.

My stuff.

Fucking rules.

Love reading

Emily: it.

Hell yeah.

Hell yeah.

Also, always remember to make sure
that you have the IP rights to your

own dreams and your vagina, because
David Cronenberg can be your dream

recorder or your gynecologist.

Ben: Oh man.

Yeah, he was, That's right.

It was him and the UN
as like with the helmet

Emily: on.

I don't think he was, I don't
think it was David Cronenberg.

Was it David Cronenberg?

With the hell in the law?

Yeah.

Jeremy: Cause they were,
they were too afraid.

James Woods was gonna get
shocked with the helmet on.

So David Cronenberg was
like, Oh, I'll put it on.

Emily: Oh.

Just like Jeff Goldblum, I wouldn't tell
you to do anything I wouldn't do myself.

Jason: Well, hey.

No, that

Jeremy: was, of course, you
know, he wanted to get in

the pulsating meat helmet.

Oh,

Jason: I'm sure.

Something that was, you mentioned a
couple times in, in commentaries was

that James Woods was apparently very
paranoid during the entire making

of the movie and, and was always
thinking people were out to get him.

So James Woods, I guess has never
changed, but yeah, that, that it was

hated by the, by Cronenberg that James
Woods would not put on the helmet

because he was, he was concerned
that it was going to electrocute him.

And like all sorts of people
put it on and they were like,

It's fine, it's fine, it's fine.

So he eventually refused to put it on.

So yeah, that's Cronenberg in the helmet.

And then later he when he is whipping
the tv, he was supposed to be whipping

it in a puddle of water, but also to do.

Cuz perhaps more reasonably
thought he would be electrocuted.

Ben: Is, is James Woods just afraid
specifically of electrocution?

It's, it's possible.

Did a tell James Woods when
he was like 11, that he was

gonna like, be electrocuted to
death and now wherever he goes?

Jason: Yes.

He's just, he's he's watching out.

Is that,

Ben: is that the answer to
the James Woods and Brittle?

No.

Funnily enough,

Jason: there's a, there's a Woods
commentary where he does not mention

that he was not wearing the helmet.

And conveniently tells you
stories about wearing the helmet.

Ben: No, I had assumed it was simply
like, I guess maybe this is what

they do for more big budget stuff.

, you know, I guess more
hollywoody type things.

I just assumed it was like, Oh, well,
we don't see his face, so let's not pay

our most expensive actor for this scene.

Sure, Yeah.

We don't need him say like, sh say, I, I
assumed it was purely a money making like

way to like try to save a few bucks off
of James Woods's likes fairly purely a, a

Jason: woods paranoia thing.

That's, that's way better.

Didn't know

Ben: James Woods is.

That's way better than mine.

Emily: Paranoid though.

But why don't we have VR
helmets that look like that?

Like, there's no reason
that we don't have that.

And I think that, that, I, I feel sad.

I feel like I have been
betrayed by the future.

Ben: Oh, if, if only the
helmets that looked like that,

the meta would've taken off.

I,

Emily: Well actually those things are fun.

Did you, did any of you ever play the old
VR with the old, like cathode screens?

Oh,

Ben: I think I did at like Disneyland.

Cause they had like a whole VR
park at Disney World or Disney,

whichever one's in Florida.

Yeah, I

Jeremy: played a virtual boy, but
that was never actually like VR

.
Emily: No, I did play a VR game.

There were like two VR games at this.

There's this place in San Francisco called
Cyber Mind, which of course these Yeah.

Which is where people go to
play Shadow Run or something.

It's not there anymore.

It's really sad.

But they had like the little platforms
and they had the VR helmets that

are sort of the, the the ancestors
of the the Oculus Rift and shit.

But these things were super heavy.

Like they, you'd have to hold them up with
one hand and then your other hand would

be like doing the, the gun or whatever.

And I played Dactyl Nightmare and it
was some of the most vertigo I've ever.

Experience in my life.

And I've been on top of a, of a plateau,
looking down in the, on the desert

of Utah, like straight down, oh shit.

Utah's got good deserts.

Utah's deserts are beautiful.

And I was happy to be there.

I hold onto the tree and I was like,
I could step and fall to my death,

but I'm having a very spiritual
moment with, with the earth right now.

The, the VR system did not have that.

There was no new flesh or old flesh.

It was just, I mean, it was cool.

I felt really fucking cyberpunk.

Like I felt like I could hear the syn and,
you know, there was like a bunch of neon

.
Ben: I, I wanna go back to Harlan.

Yes.

Cause I specifically wanna
get back to like him, like

we're entering savage times.

We need to be pure and
strong motherfucker.

It is 1983.

You are just gonna vote for
Reaganomics for the next 30

years and be fucking flying.

Shut the fuck up.

Emily: Yeah,

Ben: I, I dunno what, these are
the dark times motherfucker.

It's the mid eighties.

It was fine.

Nothing bad happened in North
America in the mid eighties.

It was a downright
hedonistic and hubris time.

I mean, I mean there I'm
not that happened world.

I know

Jeremy: turtles.

So I'm just saying, Terry, I said
there, there was, you know, the AIDS

crisis and all a sudden Ninja Turtles.

But

Ben: I mean, it AIDS crisis.

I know what this guy's acting like.

He's like, We're entering the age of
so, and World War II is gonna happen.

It's like, No, you're in
Toronto in the mid eighties.

Just do, do some Coke and relax.

Shut the fuck up.

Emily: That is valid.

What you've just said is valid
because he really was like, You know,

we're all gonna explode tomorrow.

And I'm like, Yeah, the, the Cold War was
like in full swing and, and, you know,

Ben: But with the benefit of hindsight,
we know, like it was fine for, for years.

Oh.

At least then it was fine.

We're, we'll see how
we do with this decade.

Emily: That's the thing about this
movie that is so crazy to me, is that,

I mean, it is basically, predicting
social media and all the problems of

social media without ever thinking,
without ever taking into account the

internet or computers or anything.

It's.

Satellite V or Beta Max tapes
and like hallucinatory chest,

stomach

Ben: vaginas.

Like you can't expect it to
have predicted the internet.

It's not Demolition Man.

A movie that did successfully
predict the internet.

A lot of movies later, quite

Jason: a bit later though.

Yeah.

Ben: I, I just love bringing
up how much demolition man

fucking nailed about the future.

Jason: There's a lot of, I'm
thinking of this whole setup as

like a, like analog four chan.

This is what people were doing to
be assholes back in the the, the

early eighties, late seventies.

You had meant to actually trade
things in real life in some ways.

Ben: So this movie, not to a degree as
other movies, but it does have a little

bit going on of something I've noticed a
lot, which is where the premise of what's

going on before horror shit happens and
fuck shit up, is also, is sometimes more

interesting than the horror premise.

And that's not the case with this one.

But I kind of would love a movie
where it's like, you know, just

these like high, this like super low
rent underdog TV network with like

in the, a era of broadcast pi, you
know, satellite pirates and vhs.

Craziness.

And I don't know, it's like you said,
that subculture did exist and an a

movie that did just actually focus on
it, like, you know, the HAL and catch

fire of V of VHS broadcast piracy.

Like there, that would be cool.

Emily: There's a, there is a lot of DNA
that this shares with Max hedge room,

which combines the, the computer with
like the TV and talking about like mass

media as opposed to the, the computer
internet thing at the, at that time

was more like a point to point thing.

You know, we had the war games, internet
you know, we had the idea of, you know,

geeks using computers and, you know, you
have to be like a very niche person to

be able to use a computer to the extent
of being able to use the internet.

Whereas the, the pro prediction was
that the, the mass media was mostly

going to be ingested through television.

And Max Headroom is interesting.

And I was gonna, I, I just gonna say,
that's one of my recommendations because

it has a lot of the same kind of Cy Punk
mass media commentary while being fun and

not gross and not involving James Woods.

And in this in this show slash movie
Max Headroom, the character Max is

played by Mattru, who plays a CGI
character, but he's not actually CGI

because a CGI wasn't good enough yet.

So it's just him in makeup in
front of a weird laser screen.

. But Max Heru is so of its time and
it's, I mean, so is Videodrome, like

Videodrome has that same commentary
and is also on the mark when it

comes to discussing the, the people's
relationship with media and reality, you

know, and also showing that that shit
was there before we had social media.

Like Facebook is a, is a problem, but
it, it is part of a bigger problem, which

is people not being able to determine,
what is real from media and the The,

like, irresponsibility of portrayal in
media you know, and, and media, people

who produce media not having, not taking
responsibility for the, the work that

they create, which is a, is a very fraught
and complex issue because I'm not saying

that media's, you know, entirely at
fault or people are entirely at fault.

Which is something that, that comes
up all the time when people talk

about like how media affects people.

You know, my, I've, I talked earlier
about how my folks were both professors

at Sac State, they both were in the
coms program and they both taught

classes about com, mass communication.

So it's something that I, this
is a question and a subject

that I've been growing up with.

And it's really fascinating to me to see,
and I probably saw some Videodrome before

I should have because it definitely was
something that was on topic with all the,

the stuff that my folks were researching.

Interesting

Jason: to me because

Jeremy: I feel like some of the concept
of this movie is David Cronenberg taking

the concepts and ideas and stuff that
had been leveled against him about how

media affects people in the real world.

and being like, Okay, but
like, what if that was real?

Like, like what if, what
if that was actually true?

That like stuff you watched on TV
really fucked you up, you know,

the way that people think it does.

And then like just ran with that as
the concept of his movie, which is,

is pretty wild because I feel like the
movie may makes this assumption that

that is how it works, which I think
is pretty clearly not Cronenberg's

actual like feelings on the, the matter

Jason: there.

Yeah.

He that was a, a, a stated a
stated goal of his too with that.

He, he received so much criticism from,
from people who has past gory movies.

And, and this, you know, takes the tech
I mean there's, there's a part of the

movie where they're like, Well, you,
James Woods, you, you watched this.

Why did you watch this?

Why did you want to watch this?

He's Yes.

Sort of asking that of, of an
audience now in his, what, fifth or

sixth movie of like, Hey, why did
you watch all those previous movies?

And, and, you know, constantly getting
that criticism of like, Oh, you,

you make terrible, gross things and
that's going to, to harm society.

And and, and yeah, he took that and,
and yeah, basically said, you know,

what if, what if that were true?

I have to imagine that somebody making,
making the movies that Cronenberg did

up till this point doesn't think that he
is actively trying to destroy society.

I, I would hope that's not his goal.

But but, but yeah, taking that
and, and expanding that into

a, a what if, what if it did

Emily: well?

And, and he mentions that the most, the
closest he comes to acknowledging where.

Where he is on that is the, probably
the, the only thing that James

Woods's character says that is
reasonable, which is, you know,

giving people an outlet is fine.

Like you, you know, art is an
outlet and media is an outlet.

Like, you know, that is definitely you
know, better on TV than on the street.

Right.

But context is important.

You know, I

Ben: I just wonder about this
movie's place in, cuz this is all

about like, oh, if you consume
media, you will live out that media.

How much of that was a thing that was
being thrown at Cronenberg as a general

moral panic versus the degree to which
video games A medium that did not really

fully exist yet when this movie or at
least did in extremely limited ways

when this movie came out the way that.

The question of do violent
video games make people violent?

Would be the subject of so much
social, you know, cultural debate

and topic of scientific study.

Yeah.

I just wonder about the movies inadvertent
place in a conversation that didn't

start until after this movie was made.

Well,

Emily: I mean, I can imagine people
criticizing the movies, just being

in general critical of violence and
weird shit in movies, and they're

probably more critical motherfuckers.

Yeah.

They're probably more critical
of the sex in Koberg movies

that it is like, I don't know.

It's, it's weird.

It's weird sex and therefore bad.

You know, and I think that that hypocrisy.

Is, is also addressed both with James
Woods's character being like, Oh yeah, all

this crazy shit needs to be super crazy.

I wanna see torture porn, I
wanna see it, blah, blah, blah.

But the second that somebody's
like actually into weird

shit, he's super weirded out.

Like the second that Nikki is
like, I'm, I'm into knife play.

And he's like, What the
fuck is wrong with you?

You know?

Meanwhile, he's hawking
this like, torture porn.

That very well could be real,
but he just assumes that it isn't

because like, who would do that?

? Which is a a naivete that a lot of
actual television producers utilize

when they're you know, when they're,
they're hawking problematic content,

Ben: but also always say, Interesting
when they're watching it, when

he's like, Oh, I wonder how they're
doing those special effects.

And she is just like glued
and truly into the Marty porn.

Emily: Yeah.

And then later on when they talk about
his channel, when, when Barry and Harlan

are talking about how they want channel
83, they're talking about how fucking

awful and gross and scummy it is.

But then it is the, their
number one objective because

they know that it's necessary.

And while it's that, that specific,
as much as everything else is

explained and, and elaborated upon
with metaphoric like that, that

hypocrisy of like, we think that this
is gross as fuck, but we need it.

We're gonna judge it, but use it,
you know, is I think another point.

Being made about the judgment
of that kind of stuff.

Cause like my question is this,
how do you know that somebody

is emulating a crowded Berg

Ben: movie?

I think it's when they fuse
the radiator to the fly puppet.

Emily: Yes.

How many news reports have there been
about child tees the fly and turns

himself inside out with a radiator?

Ben: Again, I remember the great moral
panic of my childhood was about the

Mor Mortal Combat Games, and I remember
being like seven and watching these news

reports and being like, Motherfucker,
how am I supposed to freeze people?

Emily: My dad went on TV
to talk about that shit.

He was like a con a, a consult.

Do you think Mortal Combat

Ben: if playing video games makes
me super good at martial arts?

We've got a whole other
thing to worry about.

Yeah.

Mainly how many people are
apparently trained as plumbers now?

Jason: So, yeah.

Def combats is, is using that whole
thing against the people who are into it.

And when he puts the VR helmet on James
Woods, he's like, I gotta leave the room.

The weird stuff, I, I can't
deal with the weird stuff.

Yes.

But if he's not hallucinating,
he's not gonna see any weird stuff.

He's gonna see James Woods
stumbling around and, and mumbling

at people who aren't there.

But like, my, my guess is that
he's a, like doth protest,

too much kind of politic.

And, you know, the people who are are, are
very gay, panic about everything are the

ones who are, have the biggest secrets.

Mm-hmm.

because they just can't tell anybody.

I I'm imagining that convex
is like, this is terrible.

Mm.

But you know, he's left the room
to go watch whatever he's into.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

Or he's left the room to actually watch
the recorded dream because he can't

watch it right there because it's boring.

It's just watching James Woods go, Ugh.

Jason: Mm-hmm.

, ugh.

Yeah.

Or whatever.

And like the spectrum that
they in, in the beginning.

You know, the, the spectrum that James
Woods is TV channel it's supposed

to cover is soft core pornography to
hardcore violence, which is not a full

spectrum, but it's a very American cable
spectrum of things that you can watch.

Ben: Yeah.

I mean, you see the Chan channel
83 does seem to be like one step

barely above like public access.

Jason: Sure.

And, and at this time, like cable, cable
was just starting to, to happen as a,

like, small channels could be broadcast
further out than they could before.

So it basically is a time of public
access channels trying to get big.

Ben: I love the scene where Maia
has with James Woods, which is

like, Have you ever thought about
producing your own television show?

And he has this past, like, what made
No, I couldn't, I was just like, Is

that another spinoff plot where James
Woods makes his own soft core porn

and it's just like, I don't know.

I guess at this point, a soft core porn
like sports manga where he has to compete

against other soft core porn people.

Oh my God.

,
Jason: like Toronto doesn't have
the film structure, the, the film

industry that Pittsburgh does.

No.

Ben: Yeah, look, you, you
just can't get, there's no way

Jason: you could make

Ben: that in Toronto,
non-descript clay pits anywhere.

Like that's a Pittsburgh staple.

, I mean, you about the pit
is you talk about a location

being a character unto itself.

and the way that

Emily: Pittsburgh, Haven't
you seen Pittsburgh?

It's a Pittsburgh with, They have the
clay wall that's electrified and they whip

Jason: you.

Jeremy: Yeah, I think was right there.

Pirate Stadium.

Jason: Yeah,

Emily: that's the Dro right there.

Welcome

Ben: to Carnegie Mellon.

And the,

Jason: The, the, the s and m
in the movie is, is kind of.

Tangential.

It just is the type of thing that,
that you can make people watch in

this fiction of the, of the movie.

It's the type of thing that
creates the right environment

for your body to, to change.

It's some sort of adrenaline, some
sort of whatever happens in your

body when you're watching this.

So it, it could have been,
it could have been anything.

Could have been puppet shows.

It could have been . Yeah, it could have

Ben: been.

Yeah.

What I do think this movie is like on
a thematic level and I think, you know,

we set with fly in Crimes of the future.

I think it's an interesting argument
of like the, Id like identity

being tied to the physical self.

That if the physical changes, like the
soul change is, like the identity changes.

There's no like soul that
transcends physicality.

Like the physical and the identity
are IPO are intrinsically.

Intertwined seems to be the argument
that runs through all of that.

Jeremy: No insect politicians,

.
Emily: I was an

Ben: insect man.

I would hate an insect politician
over some of the motherfuckers

that are running this year.

Some of

Emily: the, I'm sure
some of them are insects.

Ben: Just at least have
the morality of 'em.

Yeah.

Jason: Although that's,
I'm sorry, go ahead.

Emily: I was just gonna say you
know, we don't wanna hate on insects.

Like, who knows?

Insects

Ben: might be That's true.

We, I think we're giving
insects a bad rap here.

Yeah.

Bees.

Jeremy: I'm just taking
def Goldblum's word for it.

I believe anything Jeff Goldblum says.

So I know, that's why I believe
so much in chaos theory.

Emily: Butterfly flaps its wings
that butterfly was politician

and therefore we have rain in, in
Pittsburgh instead of sunshine.

Electrifies, the clay wall.

Also

Ben: there are an like and be queens.

How does that factor into
the insect politician?

And they do

Jason: politics.

Politicians.

They're royalty.

That's true.

Emily: But they do have, there are
politicians, I mean like be queens.

There's hives will split.

I was such thing.

Anyway, be

Jason: Civil

Ben: War, Iron, Beavers, Hornet America.

Emily: Harkening back to Candyman.

Oh boy.

Jeremy: Murder hornets.

I do have to say I think we've
talked a little bit about racial

and social justice in this movie.

I do think that

Ben: it, we didn't talk about the man
with the dancing monkey and the batteries.

What was up with that

Emily: too?

That's last thing.

Yeah.

But yeah,

Ben: there is, I'm

Jeremy: sorry for interrupting.

Dancing Monkey is the tv.

That's my,

Ben: that's my last, like, what the
fuck I need, We need to talk about

this weird ass moment before we
get into the, like, the big themes.

I'm sorry.

I know I'm an asshole.

Jeremy, I do apologize.

Jeremy: No, we, we said we'd talk about
Street Vagrant number one and his tv,

which he refers to as a dancing monkey.

And then he

Emily: keeps calling James.

What's Teddy?

It's

Ben: the batteries.

They don't work in the cold.

I, Is that how batteries work?

I feel like it might, but
I'm too lazy to look it up.

Batteries are

Jason: not great in the cold.

Oh.

The guy towards the end of the
movie, the the, the the man who

looks like Paul f Tompkins, , It's

Ben: just such like,

Jason: it, this looks like Paul f Tompkins

Emily: kinda

Ben: does.

I swear.

Like it's, I just don't like Was that
always in the script or was Cronenberg

filming and it is just like the scene.

There's too much quiet.

It's going on too long.

We need something to break it up.

You vaguely.

Toronto Vagrant.

Give me some local color.

Emily: Pretty sure that was an
actor, but yeah, like that guy.

I guess that part, the

Ben: part where it's an a, Yeah.

The part where it's an actual homeless
person is definitely not true.

I don't even know why I went
down that Imaginary tangent.

Tangents,

Jeremy: sidewalk derelict
played by Sam Malkin.

Emily: That's the nice thing about
having TVs that have really low volume

is that you can't actually charge
people for looking at them as opposed

to, you know, people looking at,
at them or from across the street.

Which is one of those things where
I'm like, Yeah, the monkey dances.

But I mean, I guess that's, I mean,

Ben: that's possible.

It's all works in this kind of like tv.

I don't know, is it a little bit
like TV equals drug, but TV all so

equals religious, awe equals reality.

TV is everything.

Just the cathode tube like.

This movie really gets away with,
like, the theme of the movie is movies.

And I'm like, Yeah.

And I find myself hard pressed to argue

.
Emily: It's the, it's elements of it that
are asking the question, Wouldn't this

be fucked up when it's like, everyday
shit is what's really fascinating to me.

Like the whole idea of, you know, your
media personality being more real than

your, your, you know, flash personality

Ben: or I will say that particular theme,
I thought Perfect Blue did like, Oh yeah.

Like I, I feel like the themes are
always there, but the core thought

is like, Man, wouldn't it be fucking
weird if it do turn into a fly?

Emily: Yeah.

Well, and, but there's also the, the
bit in this movie where Debbie Harry's

character talks about how we live in
overstimulated times and everybody's

always overstimulated and always
getting too much information and too

much emotional input and all that kind
of stuff, and she thinks that's bad.

Which seems pretty obviously like a
you know, an answer that she has paid

to, to reply because she herself is,
you know, she admits, she's like, I'm

always, I'm overstimulated all the time.

I, I don't know how else to live.

You know, acknowledges at least
that that's a, that's a thing

Ben: that was the moment on the talk
show where James Woods like ass her

out and they're flirting, like right
there on the talk show where I'm like,

this is all coming across so scummy.

If it was gold bloom, it
would be so fucking charming.

With some, with some modified dialogue,
not, not the same dialogue, but the

general like James Woods, that's gonna
be scummy no matter the dialogue.

You give global the right dialogue and he
is making that talk show, Ask the other

guest out on the date, like work in that
kind of like charming, eccentric, rogue,

slightly Bill Murray in the eighties type.

But

Emily: here's the thing too, is that
James Woods is the, is a producer.

He is the president of this channel 83.

So he knows how much of a pain in the,
as it is when you're on live television,

having a conversation while the host is
trying to have a conversation with another

guest, no matter whether that guest
is on a TV or not, or on Zoom or not.

You know, like it's fucking
shitty to be sitting there

and it's like unprofessional.

And he knows that because
he has to know that.

So like, it just adds context to
how shitty of a character he is.

And, you know, and, and Nicki
is taking it like a champ where

she's like, I know you suck.

I'm still gonna play
with you, but you suck.

You suck Dick dude in, in a bad way.

. And I

Ben: can imagines are like Reeses.

There's no bad way to suck it.

, I imagine it's, I just to make
that, I just wanted to make that

Reese's Peanut buttercup joke.

,
Jason: Sorry, what did you say?

I think that could be part of why
she left is that, you know, he, he

seemed like he was into these things.

Seemed like he was ready for it.

And then like, once he started, you
know, she wanted to do the cigarette

burn, she wanted to do it herself,
and then he, he was freaked out about.

And, and yeah.

For that bad reaction, you know,
why, why would that character

go back into James Woods' life?

He turned out to be
relatively square Yeah.

In, in his thinking.

And, and the idea that he wanted to
see this stuff, and then once it's

actually presented to you, you,
it's somehow not what you wanted or

not what you thought it would be.

Yeah.

Emily: Yeah, He was not expecting
her agency in that situation.

He was, you know, expecting a like,
kind of a weird flex, and then she just

flexed all over him and he's like, Oh,

Which

Jason: is, I mean, the kind of thing that,
that could produce, you know, a sort of

obsession with that in a, in that type of
character of like, Here's this lady who.

Came and, and, you know, destroyed me.

Now I'm obsessed with her and I, I get
to see her in, in TVs and and all that.

So, yeah, I, I wouldn't wanna go hang
out with him again after, after that.

Yeah.

Encounter.

So it makes sense that
she disappears Yeah.

Off, off to find something cooler,
like the people who run Videodrome.

Emily: Yeah.

Hopefully she isn't actually dead
and, and it's just Brianna or Bianca

or whatever her name is, . It's just
Bianca fucking with James Woods.

I do

Jason: think

Jeremy: like that, that leads to an
interesting thing for me, which I,

I think on our points of progressive
politics here, I feel like both from

the feminism angle of the, the way
that the women are portrayed and the

men are portrayed in this as well as.

From a racism angle.

There's a lot of like racism
that happens in this movie.

And scummy dude, shit that happens in
this movie that like, it seems like

pot wise, the movie realizes bad.

Nobody ever really calls it out or
is like, this is, these people are

shitty and doing shitty things.

But I feel like from context,
you're like, Oh, these people are

shitty and they do shitty things.

Yeah.

So it's, it's, it's hard to say like,
you know, the sort of generalizing of

the, this porn is being oriental and then
you know, this, the general way that the

character of Max treats women, period.

I think the, the movie seems to
know that it's shitty and bad.

But it's never like specifically
called out as like an, an issue.

That's not a theme of the movie.

I don't know.

It's, what do you guys think about that?

Emily: I do think, Oh, go ahead.

Jason: That, that no one, no one
who's, I mean, really the only

person corrupted in this movie
you know, is Max, but he's already

started out at a, a corrupted state.

Nobody's come into this movie
is like, Oh, they're the person

who's a good person and they get
corrupted by this Videodrome thing.

That would seem to be, the greater
contrast of that would be, you know, a

more, a more on theme contrast for a story
of like, here is this good person, you

know, mentally destroyed by Videodrome.

But he's, he's taking somebody who
was already a scumbag and, and making

them, you know, hallucinate to the
point of, of madness, uh mm-hmm.

So, yeah, I guess.

Ben.

Ben: Yeah, I mean, I know.

So definitely edit this.

I'll edit all this.

Dead it fucking air out.

That's good.

It's all good.

I mean, I don't think, I don't
know how this movie is feminist.

Like, I feel like if the movie is
feminists, like, Oh, it shows James

Woods slapping a bunch of women, but
he was just hallucinating it, so not

really, Which by the way, I did not
enjoy James Woods slapping women.

I'm like, ah, that I just already
don't, I'm biased against James Woods.

I don't like seeing that.

Yeah.

Emily: Well, I do feel like the movie
is very aware of how shitty he is

and how shitty these characters are
because it gives, I mean, immediately

when he gets the pizza sauce on
the photos, I You already is pizza,

Ben: crust and porn.

Emily: Yeah.

And those are nice photos,
but like, I think we, we are

introduced to him as being just
a total full of himself, asshole.

And, you know, and, and no
part of him is endearing.

And I You think that the women Go ahead.

Jeremy: I said just like the real

Emily: thing.

Yeah, exactly.

And then the women in the movie are
a lot more interesting as characters.

And the only interesting moment
to me, the, in the whole, like,

everything that Max is about is his
very vulnerable moment with Harlan.

Like that's the most human part
of that character that I saw.

I do

Ben: with Harlan stands up for
a healthy work life balance.

Mm-hmm.

, like, you just can't order me
around outside of work hours.

I'm like, Yeah, Harlan
power to the workers.

But I think it's, Yeah, go ahead.

Jason: Kind of a, a lowest,
a lowest bar and a wrong

focused sort of feminist movie.

And that we, we can look at the,
the women characters in the movie.

They mm-hmm.

are generally all better and more with
it, and more aware of what's going on than

the, the male characters in the movie.

But the movie is about the male
characters, but the, the women, So

there's, but the, the talk show host
is trying to keep things on track.

There's Nicki who knows what she wants,
and once she knows she's not gonna get

it from James Wood, she goes off to
somewhere else disappears from the movie.

There's Maha, who knows what
she's doing, and is a badass.

Mm-hmm.

. And

Jeremy: Oh, Bianca, Yeah.

Ultimately the hero of
the movie to some extent.

Jason: Yeah,

Ben: yeah, yeah.

Jason: She's been, she must be
mixing those oblivion interviews

when they're doing live tv, she has
to put in some sort of tape that

says something vaguely relevant.

Ben: It's like, What up?

I'm the ghost dad.

She's got like, mixing

Jason: up digests.

She's, she's switching between
and doing like the Batman

Wiki, Wiki CD kind of thing.

Ben: Wiki, Wiki cast . I,
I like this movie.

Would I recommend this movie?

Yes.

I think the, this movie would
be much better in every way if

Nikki is the main character.

Yes.

Yeah.

Like, I think that is just absolutely
a better story with a more compelling

character that would inherently
explore more interesting themes.

Jeremy: Yeah, I, I think that to some
extent is a recurring problem I have

with Grinberg stuff, is like the main
characters, and we'll see this again

with the brood next week, are often
the scummy dudes that are experiencing

stuff with, you know, while dealing with
their semi angelic female counterparts.

Emily: Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and that is a good point.

All about the, the fact that these
movies are sort of the lowest bar of

feminism by just making the women seem
better because we're and you know,

that can also backfire because it at
a certain point, It just typecasts

the, the women characters, right.

Where they aren't complete
characters, they are ideals.

I think in this movie that isn't so much
of a problem because you have a variety,

you know, And, and Maha and Nicki seem
to have very real and, and, specific,

wants and all that kind of stuff.

Like they, there's more to them
and you know, that, but it's still

not about them, which is what

Jason: we don't want.

They don't save the day or anything.

They don't, Yeah.

They're not, they're not compelling
James Woods to do anything good.

They're, they're just doing
their own, their own goals.

Emily: Yeah.

So they're not, they're just
putting up with him for a minute.

. But

Jason: Yeah.

And because the story is not about
them, We don't see the, you know,

whatever shitty things they're
up to, like, They're people.

They're people too.

They got something going on.

But yeah, it

Ben: is, it's

Jeremy: interesting.

We don't about 'em.

It's interesting to me and I don't know
how much this was ever his intention,

and this is us putting a lot of stuff
on David Cronenberg, how a lot of these

early movies of his, like Videodrome
and the fly are about like kind of

scummy guys trying to like find this
thing that's gonna be like really

great and make their lives great and
they're gonna like do great things and

the women who have to deal with them.

Whereas like Crimes of the Future
is about a guy who's great and all

the women just want like a part of
him and they want to be like him.

Mm-hmm.

, which is a real weird transition,
especially considering

like kinds of the future.

Current David Cronenberg.

It's like, oh, have we have, we turned
a corner here where it, it's no

longer like, I'm just trying to do
something decent and you know, these

women are having to deal with me to
like, they all want a piece of me.

These women, they wanna be doing what I do

Ben: piece.

I think it's, you're seeing pre and
post 40 years of everyone calling

you a film visionary, ingenious
in every conversation you have.

Yeah.

Jason: At some point
that's gonna get to you and

Ben: of work.

I think any of us would be like, You
know what, maybe I am hot shit , Maybe

I did fucking invent body horror.

How about that?

Is, that's fucking amazing.

I do rule . Well, I

Jeremy: guess let's, I mean, Ben
already answered this question to some

extent, but do you guys, do we feel
this movie is, is worth recommending

to people should people see it?

Emily: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

It's, I think it's, it's certainly a
really interesting index of its time.

And it's, you know, just remember
everything that comes with that particular

criterium is that, you know, it's not
as aware of certain tropes as maybe it

should be, but it's certainly of the time.

I think it's, it's really fascinating and,
you know, fun vibes, Cronenberg vibes.

Jason: What do you think, Jason?

I, I would, I would say a, a light
recommendation in that I, I don't

feel that it's as cohesive enough
of a story to say like, Oh, this.

This is something that's,
that's well thought out.

We didn't really speak
a lot about the ending.

But yeah, like it's, it's an okay movie.

It's good for if you wanna see some,
some trippy stuff, but like, almost

not enough trippy stuff for me.

Like I wanted more weirdness out of
it than, than we ended up getting.

So, yeah, I would say if you like middle
period Cronenberg definitely check it

out and kind of work your way backwards
and see where some of this stuff started.

So light, light recommendation.

Okay.

Yeah.

Jeremy: I, I think for
me it, it is similar to.

Crimes of the Future in some ways in that
it has kind of a like, Yeah, but what

if, and at the end of the movie you're
like, Yeah, but what if, like mm-hmm.

, what's the, what's the point?

,
Jason: It doesn't feel like a complete

Jeremy: thought.

Yeah.

Like, what is the next thing?

Because there's a lot of, there's a
lot of this movie in particular because

it deals so much with hallucination
and everything that like, you're

like, I don't actually know what did
happen in this movie by the end of it.

Like I was saying is, is Maha still alive?

Who knows?

Is Nikki still alive?

Don't think so.

They, they say pretty clearly
that she's dead, but who knows

if you can trust those people?

Yeah, but also like, I don't know,
there's, there's, to some extent it, it

has some, some interesting ideas, but it
is also I think a testament to like the

way that people's minds work that David
Cronenberg is like, Yes, but what if like,

You could fuck a tv, but he can't think
beyond the idea of of VHS at that point.

like, Oh yeah, but still it's a vhs.

Like, you know, you have to have
magnetic strips that we watch,

you know, this stuff off of.

There's, you know, couldn't, couldn't
conceive of the idea of like a, you

know, a, a hard driver, a, you know,
even a DVD or a laser disc at that point.

.
Emily: Yeah.

The, the, the speculative fiction
when it comes to the actual

technology is, is very dated.

And I, I do think it is part of the

Jeremy: Darren Credits is never Yeah, but
what's the next logical step after that?

He's what his is always like, Yeah, but
what if we could fuck that technology

?
Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

That's what I'm saying with the HG
Wells thing is that like, you know,

whereas HG Wells is like, But what
if there were crazy flying machines

and then we went places with them.

David Cronenberg is.

What if we could fuck it . And
then you ask, and then what?

And he's like, I don't know.

Have some guts.

He's, he's the

Jeremy: record alpha
fucking, He's just like,

Ben: on the fuck

Jason: this plane had veins.

Let's get this plane veins.

Jeremy: God, I really don't wanna see
a David Cronenberg movie about flying.

I know that, a big flashy plane

No, no.

Jason: It was nostalgic seeing
all these console TVs, these

wood grain console TVs that

Ben: I, I loved the effect when Brian
Oblivian went from like the distorted

speaking through television sound to
just speaking normal conversation sound.

And it was very good.

It was very editing and this

Jeremy: is fascinating.

Ben: Very good.

You know, film language of communicating
themes of merging reality and television.

Yeah,

Emily: I first saw this
movie on a TV like that.

I just want you to know that.

Jeremy: Very good.

Yeah.

I, I think it's interesting how like
the, how well that sound is, is produced.

That when he gets that tape from oblivion,
it starts, I'm gonna go like this.

And then when it says hello
to him, it's like, Hi Max.

It's like, whoa, wait, what?

But also anytime James Woods walks
anywhere, it sounds like he's

wearing tap shoes for some reason.

.
Jason: But it's such

Emily: a good sound though.

I mean,

Jeremy: there's a lot of it.

It's, it's

Jason: so crisp.

It's like

Emily: race

Jason: crispies.

Jeremy: I guess going from there
what would we, what, what kinda

recommendations do we have?

What should people check out if they
enjoy this, or even if they didn't

Jason, what do you have to re.

Jason: So there's, there's a whole it's a
whole horror genre of haunted videotapes

most famously being ringu or the ring
where things, things that you watch come

to haunt you or things that you watch,
you know, are, are full of ghosts.

So that's, that's a thing.

The the, the, this is very matrixy and
that they could, you know, in theory

be feeding him action movies and he
could start jumping off of stuff.

He could feed him very
early Jackie Chan movies.

That would've been great.

So like, and James Woods would've
been like, I know gun vu and do jerk

And, and, and there is, you would've
called it, there is a digital stomach

vagina in like the second matrix, or
second or third matrix movie like,

Keanu reaches in and restarts Trinity's
heart, like, Oh, that happens.

Ben: That does

Jason: happen.

So it's, it's very downloading.

It's very like, it could
be used to gain news.

Maybe that's the military's
goal in the end of like, Oh,

we could just not train people.

We could just feed them, you know, Arley,
Orme movies and They would be ready to go

Ben: if we give em all with MK Ultra.

If we give 'em all vagina stomachs,
they can fit another gun in there.

Yeah, I think,

Emily: I mean, I don't think they
were trying to do the vagina stomach

thing and MK Ultra, but who knows?

Jason: Who

Ben: knows?

Who knows.

My program got up to
a whole bunch of shit.

Jason: Like, it's kind of silly to
recommend somebody see The Matrix.

I'm anybody who wants to has, But
you know, it, it's, there's some very

similar things between these two movies.

If you

Ben: haven't seen The
Matrix, go watch The Matrix.

Jason: Hey, have you heard this
movie called the Ma The Matrix?

Emily: There's a lot of people I think
that they haven't quite seen the ma.

There's a lot of young people.

I haven't seen the Matrix yet, but
it is, you know, especially young

Jason: people,

Jeremy: mostly the Matrix,

Jason: but it's not like a
deep cut of like, Hey, did you

ever hear about this movie?

Oh yeah.

Ben: Heard of a little
film, Might not heard of it.

Pretty underground,
called The Mate Tricks,

.
Jeremy: Ben, what about you?

What

Ben: would you recommend?

So if you want another movie of a
Hapless Man being bounced between

opposing forces in a cascading series
of conspiracies and events that he

has no agency or understanding of
definitely check out The Big Lebowski.

Hmm.

Emily: That's good.

Jason: That's a sideways,
That's a I like that.

Ben: Yeah.

I always like doing the
sideways recommendations,

coming at it from the ankle.

Jeremy: I was a good recommend sideways.

So,

,
Ben: Right.

I just recommend a wine.

Emily: Yeah, Wine is good.

Also after this movie,
this is more of a liquor

Jeremy: movie, honestly.

Emily: Yeah, true.

It gotta wash that gun
down with something.

Yeah.

If

Ben: there was ever a movie to just
have like, Straight whiskey too.

Malt liquor.

Yeah.

Good job.

Yeah.

Jeremy: Emma, what, what
have you guys recommend?

Emily: Yeah, I've already
done the max, hes thing.

And so what I would recommend, if you want
some more interesting commentary about

the the mass media problems that we have
right now check out the social network.

That movie is horrifying
in a different way.

You don't need guts to be
fucked up by that misogyny.

So, and I think it's a very important
movie to watch, especially in this

day and age because that movie
knew it was evil and it's still is,

Ben: it's absolutely insane.

Like, has there ever been a greater case
of Hollywood jumping the gun than doing

the Mark Zuckerberg biopic in 2010?

In

Emily: 2010?

Ben: I think we may miss some stuff
that turned out to be important.

Well,

Emily: I thought it was interesting.

It was very like predictive, kind.

Same kind of way, not the same exact
way, but similarly to this movie where

they're like, This is a problem, you know?

And then, Oh

Ben: absolutely.

That's cool.

It's just like this was early.

Yeah.

He would go on to do way more
shit that we would need to cover.

Are you going to, For the apartments?

Unless this was the long game and they
are, and Fincher and Eisenberg are

gonna return for like the Meta network.

Jeremy: Just call it meta commentary.

Jason: Maybe.

Emily: Maybe they did create

Ben: legs.

Fincher, you listening,

Jeremy: God, if he was,
could you imagine how

Ben: amazing that be?

We've got like a, we've
got like 200 listeners.

If Fincher was one of 'em,
that'd be fucking incredible.

Jeremy: So the, the one thing I wanted
to recommend it, it occurred to me as,

as we were talking about the commentary
and Ben mentioned that we were sort

of, he's sort of getting out ahead of
the commentary that will happen with

video games shortly there after this.

And he will come back again to
basically make a movie pretty

similar to this dealing with
games and it's called Exist Ends.

And it is as weird and, and
Kronen Bergy as this one is just

a lot of, you know, fleshy VR
machines plugging into your head.

And you know, it does have Jude Law,
which is a nice upgrade from oh my God.

It, you know, it doesn't have
Debbie Harry, which, you know,

unfortunately, but it does have
Will Defoe, which is almost as good.

Ben: Man, j July.

Jason to, oh fuck, I
am, That's a good cast.

And Ian of them,

Jason: so, Oh shit.

And Christopher Kelson.

Sam,

Ben: Fuck.

Oh no.

Fuck.

That's a stacked

Emily: cast.

Yeah.

I was in, I, I saw that movie
in the background at one point.

I think that was another one
that my dad was watching.

And I was like, What the fuck is this?

And he is

Jason: like, Well exist then.

And you're like, Isn't that
the the, the gas station?

Boner pills.

One, one further recommendation
for movies dealing with tv, TV

executives and things like that.

Check out network.

Network is a good, like
behind the scenes TV show.

It's TV network politics

Jeremy: thing, and you want about,
you wanna talk about something that

like, got out ahead of the curve.

Like network is an incredibly predictive
movie of, of like the current media

landscape in a way that is frightening.

Yeah.

But yeah.

And then you'll have a good excuse
to run around saying, I'm mad

as hell and I'm not gonna take

Emily: it anymore.

I'm gonna stick with
long lift and new flesh.

But we'll see how that long that lasts.

Jason: do you think we could change
the the title or the subtitle of your

podcast to, to be progressively horrified?

The one you take to bed at night,
the one you take to bed with you?

Yes.

Emily: The one you

Jason: take to bed with.

Welcome to Progressively Horrified,
the one you take to bed with you.

Jeremy: I'd have to get a little
further up on the mic, I think.

I don't welcome to progressively horrify
the one you take to bed with you.

Jason: I'm glad this is almost over

Jeremy: bright red right now.

All right.

Emily: That's always what happens
when I get you the, Well, I mean

also, yeah, like any, I like
doing the customer service voice.

Don't like hearing it.

. I'm sorry.

That's my hypocrisy.

Jeremy: On that note Jason before
we wrap up, can you let people

know where they can find out about,
more about you and your work?

Jason: Yeah.

So, you can find my main
website@strutzart.com and Strutz

Art at pretty much any social media.

My, my big project right now is currently
releasing some work in progress of my

Medieval horror undead family drama
graphic novel called Returned at my, my

Patreon, which is patreon.com/strt art.

I'm posting some twice weekly.

You're getting script pages
sketch pages with lettering and

commentary and backstory stuff.

This is a book that I've been working
on for two or three years now that

keeps getting waylaid by pandemics
and and jobs and all sorts of stuff.

Mm-hmm.

. But I, I'm finally putting out
work on that so you can follow

the work in progress there.

So that's my big main project right now.

And I'm also doing started working for
a company called Two C Gaming, who makes

Dungeons and Dragons expansion books,
doing art and art direction there.

Emily: Awesome.

Let me know if you need any, any art.

I don't do some.

That's awesome.

I also wanna mention that Jason
did the, the logo for our show.

Yes, I do.

And it's awesome.

Yeah.

So, yeah, so if you're, if you're
wondering what his art looks

like, well now you know it.

I really love that logo too.

I used it for my litter boxed my
profile picture on the letter box.

Oh, good

Jason: luck.

I'm glad.

I'm glad you enjoy it.

Yes.

Jeremy: As for the rest of us,
you can find Emily at Mega Moth on

Twitter and mega underscore moth
on Instagram and@megamoth.net.

Ben is on Twitter at Ben the Con and on
their website@benconcomics.com, where

you can pick up all of their books.

And finally, for me, you can find me on
Twitter and Instagram at Jerome five eight

and my website@jeremywhitley.com where
you can check out everything that I write.

And of course, the podcast is on Patreon.

It progressively horrified our
website@progressivelyhorrifiedtransistor.fm

and on Twitter at Prague Horror Pod
where we would love to hear from you

come tweeted us about uh, Videodrome
and how you love the new flesh.

Speaking of loving to hear from
you we would love it if you'd

rate and review this podcast
wherever you're listening to it.

Five Stars helps us find new listeners
and thanks again to Jason for joining us.

Jason, it was great.

Along with the new flesh.

Jason: Yeah, won the new flesh.

Jeremy: And thanks as always to
Ben and Emily for joining us.

Thanks to you for listening, and
until next time, stay horrified.

Alicia: Progressively horrified
as created by Jeremy Whitley

and produced by Alicia Whitley.

This episode featured Jeremy Ben,
Emily ed, special guest Jason chats.

All opinions expressed by the
commentators are solely their own

and to not represent the intent or
opinion of the filmmakers, nor do they

represent the employers, institutions,
or publishers, the commentators.

Our theme music is epic darkness
by Mario Oh six and was provided

royalty free from Pixabay.

I feel like this episode, you
can support us on Patrion.

You can also get in touch with us on
twitter@procorepodorbyemailatprogressivelyhorrifiededgyville.com.

Thanks for listening.

Bye.

Jeremy: Woo.

Ray,

Jason: get episode

Ben: in the.