Alicia: Hey, just a heads up.

The episode you're about to listen to
is the Queen of Black Magic directed by

Kimo Stamboel and written by Joko Anwar.

This movie contains descriptions of bugs.

Cutting self-harm extreme violence
to women and children, mind and

body control, repeated and intense
references to the sexual assault of

minors, misogyny, intense gore, body
horror, and body dysmorphia and our

hosts rank this movie as terrifying.

If you'd like to learn more
about the movie discussed this

evening, please visit our website:
progressivelyhorrified.transistor.fm

for show notes, relevant links
and transcripts of each episode.

After the spooky music we'll talk about
the episode in full, so be forewarned.

There will be spoilers.

Now let's get on with the show.

Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified the podcast

where we hold horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.

Tonight, we're talking about
the 2020 Indonesian horror

film, The Queen of Black Magic.

I am your host, Jeremy Whitley
and with me tonight, I have a

panel of cinephiles and cenobites.

First, they're here to invade your
house and find queer content in all

of your favorite movies, my co-host
and comic book writer, Ben Kahn.

Ben, how are you tonight?

Ben: Fuck.

You don't need a trigger warning
for this movie you need a

whole damn gun show warning.

Jeremy: Absolutely.

And we picked her up at the
spooky crossroads of anime and

sexy monster media It's co-host
and comics artist Emily Martin.

How are you tonight, Emily?

Emily: Hide your kids.

You can hide your wife actually.

Yeah.

Hide them.

In fact, don't bring
them to the orphanage.

Jeremy: Wives don't
fair well in this movie.

Ben: Man.

I know we're a horror movie podcast,
so no locations are good locations,

but like especially orphanages.

Jeremy: Rural orphanages at that.

Ben: Yeah.

Nothing good happens in an
orphanage in a horror movie.

Jeremy: I want to say first and foremost,
by the time you get here, you will have

heard the trigger warnings at the top.

But I do want to re-emphasize those.

This movie is a hard watch.

And if those warnings make you leery
about watching or even listening

to descriptions of this movie, I
would suggest you to skip this one.

It's rough.

Ben: Like, it's good.

If you want to be frightened
and freaked the fuck out, this

movie is a goddamn 10 out of 10.

Jeremy: I know Ben, you had to like
take multiple stabs to get through it.

Cause you uh, hit us up last
night and were like, yeah, I'm

like 40 minutes in and I've got
to come back to this one later.

Ben: Yeah.

This was like, oh, let's just take-
let's just take a little break.

Jeremy: Yeah.

The two or three most traumatic
things that happen in this movie,

all kind of happen back to back.

This is directed by Kimo Stamboel, who
uh, is director also of Killers and Dara

and Macabre who are all, which are all
like big Indonesian horror movies that

have come out in the last five years.

It's written by Joko Anwar who also
wrote in Impetigore and Satan's

Slaves and The Forbidden Door, both
in Impetigore and Satan's Slaves

are also on like Shudder right now.

They have a whole list of like
this sort of new Renaissance of

Indonesian horror that have come
out of this group of people.

Ben: And I'll give it
for Kimo Sta- Stamboel.

This movie is superbly directed.

Emily: This is gorgeous.

Ben: This is a very
well-made horror movie.

If you feel like I'm advising you not to
see it, it is because it is too scary.

And I don't say that often on this show.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I think it's, it's interesting
compared to a couple of the other

movies we've talked about this month.

I mean, in both Shutter and Sukob,
both of which we enjoyed, but are

much milder movies, they really
kind of feel their age, even

though their age is like 10 years.

You know, in this movie, you
know, it was directed in 2020 and

it looks like a prestige film.

It doesn't look like it was
made on low horror budget.

Ben: No, very good production values.

This is a hundred percent a professional
movie that like you would expect to see on

the screen from a major Hollywood studio.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I think it's interesting because this
and Satan's Slaves are both remakes,

but they're both sort of only remakes
in name only, you know, that those

are names that are evocative of the
history of horror stuff in Indonesia.

And they take kind of a similar
theme, but they're both very

different than the originals which
are all also on Shudder right now.

If, If you know you happen to be listening
to this and want to check this out.

Ben: I know this movie came out
in 2019, but I feel like it had to

have been made in the last two weeks
since we recorded our talk about

Sukob, where they heard me talk about
like, this movie had no violence.

My blood lust was unsatisfied!

And they're like, okay, motherfucker.

You want some gore?

Alright.

Alright, you fucking piece of shit.

Let's see how you like it now.

We went through this whole transit,
like this cycle, this evolving

funnel of no gore to, oh God!

So much gore!

Jeremy: Yeah.

Like it's legitimately hard to watch.

I want to get into some of it here.

I do want to say that it stars Ario
Bayu, Hannah Al Rashid, and Adhisty Zara.

the IMB de IMDb description of this movie
was poorly written an absolute nonsense.

So I just took a whack at actually doing
what theirs usually feels like, which is:

three men returned with their families to
an orphanage where they were raised uh,

when the man who raised them falls ill.

But it soon becomes clear that
something or someone brought them back

here because they're connected to a
horrible tragedy that occurred here.

And now horrible stuff is happening again.

Ben: Except it's not fully
clear if they're connected?

Like they start to be like,
oh shit who invited us?

Someone brought us here
for this curse purpose.

You invited us, oh, wait,
you're actually innocent.

And this is just, I guess, a
coincidence that we are also here.

I'm not clear on that part.

Jeremy: I think it's unclear whether
whether the proprietor of the

orphanage's sickness is in some way
connected to the revenge that somebody

is being is preparing to take.

Emily: Yeah.

I'm sorry, this IMDb summary.

I really- can we just read it?

Ben: Yes.

I need to hear it.

I need to hear the, I need to
know what's actually on IMDb.

Emily: Uh, We begin: families
were terrorized at the orphanage.

Someone wants them dead
apparently with black magic.

That is very deadly.

She has a grudge.

And she was also born because of
the sins of the orphans who formed

her into The Queen of Black Magic.

Ben: That is- Jeremy, I'm sorry.

I know we're both professional
writers, but this fucking kicks ass.

That's way better.

IMDb for the win on this one.

Hell yes.

Emily: That's a different Movie!

I mean.

Ben: I'm not gonna call any
of those sentences, but I

love all of the fragments.

Can we write the movie where this
would be an accurate summary?

Emily: This is the sequel to this movie.

Jeremy: Some One wants them
dead comma, apparently with

black magic that is very deadly.

Ben: That fucking sent me!

Apparent- apparently with black magic.

They're not sure what's happening.

Jeremy: And she's also born because
of sins of the orphans who formed

her into The Queen of Black Magic.

Doesn't it doesn't make any sense.

Emily: Yeah, they did a sin and
then she was born and then after

she was born, obviously they formed
her into The Queen of Black Magic.

So.

Ben: None of that describes
the movie, but it is on its own

very hardcore and very awesome.

Emily: Yeah.

Also like, yeah, someone wants them dead
and then now we know who it is, it's she?

Who is she?

We don't know.

Ben: But like.

There was a a moment And I had
this thought like, oh, what if

the whole black, everything you do
with black magic is a misdirect.

And this is like a totally mundane,
like killer murder, mystery thing.

Like, and, I don't know, I
got really excited for that.

But then the black magic did kick
in and I'm like, oh shit, this is

super terrifying and fucked up.

And oh no.

Oh no.

Oh no!

Jeremy: Yeah this movie, several times
and it made me say, oh no, don't do that.

Oh no!

Stop!

Emily: Shit was rad though.

Like, which when the actual queen of black
magic showed up, I was like, oh yeah.

Kick ass.

Ben: This movie is so intense and
in a lot of ways, super hard to

watch, but man is is every single
set piece for gore and horror and

violence just, oh, so imaginative and
creative and violent and memorable.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, it's fucked up.

And like, you know, if you have any
sort of mental condition um, this

movie is not sensitive about that.

Ben: The only trigger warning that
isn't there, so just assume all of them,

except for on screen sexual assault.

Off screen sexual assault, is
a different story entirely.

Not on screen.

So-

Jeremy: Considering the victims I'm
especially thankful it was not on screen.

All right.

So, uh, Let's talk about this.

I was extremely happy with this
first scene because it's sort of

this- we get this family road trip.

We get Hanif and Nadya who are the main
couple in this and their kids: uh, Sandi,

the older brother, who is there, uh-

Ben: He does nothing.

He contributes nothing.

Jeremy: Sister, Dina, who
is mischievous and horny.

And the younger son
Haqi, who is like, he's.

Emily: The best.

Ben: The MVP of the movie?

The best character in the film?

Jeremy: Yeah.

He's He's good.

He is what every other director
who's ever written a child into a

movie wants but rarely actually gets.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: He is not realistic a child.

They don't care.

They're not trying to be.

He's awesome.

He's great.

Emily: It's relatively realistic.

I mean, he's just really pure.

Jeremy: The car hits something
while they're having their uh,

you know, cute conversation.

Because what horror movie that
starts with somebody in a car doesn't

immediately hit something on the road.

And the dad gets out to check what
it is along with Sandi, who is there.

So they do discover that there
is a dead deer uh, which Hanif

assumes is what they hit.

Uh, And they get back in the car and
continue onto the orphanage only then

do we discover as an audience that there
is a young girl lying either dead or

terribly injured in the gutter on the
side of the road, which is a cruel reveal.

Ben: And then we get centipedes cause
just, that was the point in the movie,

I'm like centipedes on a corpse?

I don't like centipedes.

I'm like now I look back on me
being grossed out at that part of

the movie and being like you sweet
summer child dumb, dumb, dumb mother,

fucking child of a bitch dum-dum.

Emily: I think centipedes
are kind of cute.

I used to own cent-.

Ben: I liked them when they're four feet
tall and on fire and have a mustache

and they're Centiskorch in Pokemon.

Emily: I mean, it's Pokemon
centipedes are generally like cuter.

But you know, centipedes are not
as cute as millipedes and they

really go hard with the centipedes.

Ben: I really- audience, I really
wish you could see Jeremy's face

when Emily said that centipedes
aren't as cute as millipedes.

Emily: They're not!

Jeremy: I mean, I think that's
objectively true, but you are

comparing a dumpster and a tire fire.

So like.

Emily: I used to own giant African
millipedes and they were very cute.

Jeremy: Like?

I would have been like, Nope,
can't sleep here I guess.

Oh, well I'd rather sleep outside.

All right.

So they arrive on the, or at the orphanage
and we meet the rest of the cast.

Uh, We meet Anton whose thing is sort of
that he was frequently left behind by the

other two, you know, when they were kids.

And so he's a bit sensitive about stuff.

And then his wife, Eva who shows
up in this, you know, face mask

who, because she's afraid of germs.

I mean, what kind of a idiot does that?

Uh, It reads a little differently
a few years later because-

Ben: I have in my notes, like,
look at you, fucking Eva.

Won't be seeing Eva getting COVID.

Uh uh, She's got her booster.

Jeremy: Got her hand sanitizer
with her and everything.

I feel like she's meant to look a
little crazy in this movie, but from our

perspective in 2022, she's doing her job.

She's doing great.

Ben: We get, we do get them like
pulling up with a pa- with a close

in, on their expensive Mercedes.

And that is one real criticism
I have of this movie in that it

bites off more than it can chew.

And it throws some class themes
and discussions of class at us.

But then I guess it
doesn't have the space.

It's not like tied into
the horror going on.

So it really doesn't get explored
or have like a cohesive point.

It's just kind of thrown out there without
really co- congealing into anything solid.

Theme wise.

Emily: I mean...

Jeremy: Little bit of a X-Men versus
Morlocks kind of thing because you get

the, you know, you get the two or two
orphans we'll meet that were sort of

never adopted and, you know, have stayed
there all this time and are a little bit

resentful of the rest of the group here.

They are still poor.

They still don't have anything.

And they're a little bit, you know,
resentful of these folks who have

gone out and have, you know, lives
and fancy cars and everything now.

Ben: Haqi's bewilderment at a VHS tape.

Emily: I fucking love that scene.

It's really cute.

Ben: It's the strongest scene for
class because you get to see here's

how it was just like, why not?

Why don't you just stream it?

Jeremy: You know, on the wifi.

What's wifi?

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: Well, I feel like at least
that got a little time to flesh out.

Like, I feel like there was this low-key
thing, like Maman and how, whether or

not he felt resentful to still being a
caretaker at the orphanage and his, and

he didn't seem as close with the other
three, but it really didn't feel like

they had much of a chance to really
properly explore like Maman's relationship

with them or what he had going on.

Like, it feels like they, you know,
maybe that was more in a different draft

or in a longer version of the movie.

But it didn't feel-

Jeremy: Seems like a lot of um, remixing
of what, you know, the three main

characters relationships are to this
orphanage in the first place, you know,

throughout the movie, we find that a
lot more about what it was actually like

and you know, what they went through.

Uh, None of which Maman was a
big part of, he was just sort

of another guy that was there.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, they do suggest that there was
a significant population of, of orphans

there when our three main guys were
there and Maman was there with them.

That story changes a
lot through this movie.

Jeremy: We also have Jefri uh, who is our
muscular kind of overcompensating, third

boy from the orphanage and his wife, Lina.

Whew.

She's a rough one.

Um, She is frequently terrified
that she is fat throughout

this, despite being quite thin.

And it is clear that she has
sort of an eating disorder.

Ben: I mean, you know, we're talking body
dysphoria, I mean, which they show very,

very like how her reflection is literally
different than her in that context.

Like, it was very, I mean, again, the
body dysphoria and the self harm and

all that, like trigger warning, trigger,
warning, trigger warning on that.

God, we get the scene where she just
kind of throws out, like, apropos of

nothing, like I'm on hormone treatment.

And I remember having my notes.

Okay movie.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: You sure you want
to tackle this too?!

Jeremy: Yeah.

I mean, there's, there's also like,
you know, she gets offered some

food at one point in the movie
and she's like, oh no, thank you.

No fruit for me.

It's like, oh, okay.

Emily: It's pretty severe.

Ben: Because she says, she's
trying to skip dinners?

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: She's trying to give up dinners.

There's Maman and Siti, who are the
two orphans who sort of remain there.

They've, you know, they've
taken over working at the

orphanage from being orphans.

Um, Maman is a bit
off-putting personality wise.

He keeps referring to them as sir.

And they're not sure why he's
he's talking to them like they

didn't know each other as kids.

And then Siti has a severe burn scars
on her face that we'll, you know,

we'll find out more about later.

But yeah they're both sort of deferential
and keep sort of disappearing into the

orphanage at various points and are,
are definitely at points, implied to

be connected to some of the bad stuff
that's going on, but it's going to

turn out to be a little different than
what the movie is setting us up for.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: Not to ever accuse this movie of
holding back or pulling its punches.

But I do have to admit, it took
me awhile to realize that those

are supposed to be burns because I
honestly thought she just had pink eye.

Emily: Yeah.

Or some sort of like growth
or something like that.

That was on her eyelid.

Ben: Yeah.

Cause it's really just been, there's
like one, eye, mostly shut, that's red.

Jeremy: When they shoot her straight on.

Mostly what you see is the eye.

And occasionally they shoot her
from the side that's burned and

it's clear that there's a lot
more like makeup on there too.

Ben: That's the problem of
watching these movies on the phone?

I don't always pick up on the details.

Emily: I mean, I watched it on my TV
and I didn't quite notice that there

was more than just the swollen eye.

Cause there was so much going on
that I was trying to keep track.

Jeremy: It was being later where the
two of them are sort of talking in the

kitchen and you're getting sort of a
side view of her face and it, it becomes

a little more clear, like just how big
it is because it's pointed out by Haqi,

who wants to ask what the deal is from
the start and will later ask again.

Ben: Haqi is precious.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And we also have Hasbi and Rani who are
current orphans living at the orphanage.

There's some of, I guess the
older kids that are living

there, they've been left behind.

The rest of the orphans are on a
great field trip to go do something.

I don't remember if they say exactly
what it is, but it will not be relevant.

And Hasbi sort of, his personality is
sort of too cool for school, like, uh,

immediately you know, immediately Dina has
a crush on him and he's sort of playing

it cool throughout the whole thing.

And you know, just sort
of showing them around.

Uh, But then Rani is a demon.

She is determined to scare the
shit out of Haqi at any any turn

possible is telling him all sorts of
horrible stories about the orphanage

and stuff that's happened there.

And.

Ben: Rani's goal is to deliver as much
exposition as she can while also fucking

with Haqi as much as she can, however she
could educate us the audience while also

scaring the shit out of this small child.

Like that's what she's here to do.

Emily: I mean, it kind of rules
like, oh yeah, she's great.

Yeah.

Ben: Like she- Oh yeah, no.

We're big fans of Rani in this household.

Emily: Yeah.

Like she's in a way it's kind of, cute
how she's like telling the ghost story.

And I mean, it would be a lot
more cute if it wasn't true.

Jeremy: It's also like, he's trying to
like listen through we'll find out there's

a door that, you know, there's stuck.

That they can't open.

There's stuff behind there.

And like she's telling the story while
he's got his ear pressed up against

it and just like slams her fist
against the door to freak him out.

Emily: She's a great Storyteller.

Ben: She's got stage presence.

Jeremy: Everybody goes to see Mr.

Bondi, who is, you know, the
man who runs the orphanage.

Uh, They all credit him with
sort of raising them and getting

them to where they are now.

He isn't even able to talk at this point
and he's in bad shape lying in his bed.

It is unclear how conscious he is
for most of what's going on here.

And while they're doing this Rani
is, is showing the kids this door,

this sort of blue door they can't
open to a room where somebody died.

Her name was Ms.

Mirah.

And, um, she was locked in this
room after claiming another child,

Murni, uh, was taken by the devil
while they were out walking.

And she died killing herself by banging
her head against this door until her

skull split while she was locked in there.

Ben: That's not how that doesn't kill you.

That just activate your hidden malignant.

Emily: If you have one.

Not everybody has one, Ben.

Jeremy: Definitely killed
that guy in Bioshock.

That's all I remember.

Emily: Right.

It was interesting because Rani
had a Polaroid camera that she was

taking photos of everybody with.

And that was really cool to me.

Cause it kind of felt like it
was an homage to a lot of the

photography based horror that
we had in a lot of these movies.

I mean, I don't know if it was
intentional, but also it shows

the difference between the kids
who are taking it, like Haqi's

taking photos with his phone.

And Rani's been taking all
these Polaroids of everybody

together that are very candid.

They're not like, okay, everybody
say cheese, you know, it's.

Ben: Photo based, a horror hits
way differently and way less

effectively with a smartphone.

Shutter with a smartphone doesn't
work, especially if it's just like,

woo, check out the new ghost on
your shoulders filter I downloaded.

It puts a ghost on your
shoulders in all your photos!

Emily: Yes.

Yes.

We, we, yeah.

Jeremy: Hanif takes Jefri with him
to go get some stuff out of the car

and while they're there Hanif takes
a look at his bumper where it got

dented in when he wrecked and notices
that there's not deer skin or hair

there that there's like human hair.

And he's like, oh shit, Jefri.

I think I mighta hit
something that wasn't a deer.

We got to go out in the
dark and check this out.

Jefri for his part is like, do we though?

Okay.

I guess.

They go out to go find the
scene of this earlier accident.

Ben: Is this the first time we've
had a horror movie, protagonist

hit something with their car and
actually act responsible to their

best of their knowledge and abilities?

Jeremy: Well, Hanif's
incredibly responsible for

a horror movie protagonist.

Emily: I mean, he does see the
deer and what is interesting to

me is that to me, I was like, oh
yeah, that deer has been dead.

Like that wasn't the thing that they
hit, that deer has been dead for a while.

I mean, like, I guess he, he did
the best he could with what he got.

Ben: I'd feel differently if he'd
been like, oh, I hit something.

Well, I looked around for two
minutes and I didn't see anything.

So I guess it was nothing like
in the kind like, okay, you found

something that logically make
sense as the thing you would hit.

You're driving a car, you're in a forest.

There's lots of deer get hit by cars.

It happens.

You hit something and then you
find a dead deer right by your car.

I'm like, yeah.

I would probably consider
that mystery solved.

And then as soon as he's like,
oh shit, this may be not.

He's like, we have to go out right now.

There's no, like we have to cover this up.

There's no, we have to protect ourselves.

Like, their goal is to get
people to the hospital or contact

the police, like at all times.

Emily: True.

Jeremy: My only problem with Hanif,
he's an incredibly like responsible

horror protagonist, except uh, he has
clearly never seen a horror movie before

because he is perfectly comfortable,
like later on running off with his

wife and leaving their children
at this clearly haunted orphanage.

Ben: They'll be fine.

Like, the other people here.

I'm like this place is not fine.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: Don't leave your kids here.

Emily: Yeah.

So there, right before the discovery
of the deer, the not deer fur on

the on the car the three dudes
have a discussion about what's

going to happen to this place.

Oh, they're gonna sell it.

Oh, they'll never sell it.

And then someone says, oh, you
never know what they'll uncover.

So this is our first hint that
there's more to, I mean that for

sure there's more to it than just
like, you know, Rani making shit up.

They also say something about,
there's always a kid that runs away

each year, which is interesting.

Ben: Oh, that should, that's just
foreshadowing for like horror later on.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: But um, when they said you never know
what they might uncover, at that point,

I wasn't even thinking about Miss Mirah.

Cause in my head I was thinking
like, oh, well I guess she died

in a way people understood.

So she was probably just buried.

I thought like, oh, they
must have killed Murni.

That, as those, a few other things
where I was like, oh, maybe this

supernaturalness is a red herring and
this is just like a really dark fucked up,

like, they've killed people after that.

I'm like just really
hardcore revenge killings.

Jeremy: Yeah.

It's a real possibility at various points
in this movie that they're just kids from

a Stephen King movie that like, you know,
happened to stumble upon some bad shit.

And you know, none of it is
supernatural in like in uh, you

know, Stand By Me kind of way.

Ben: Yes.

This movie really plays with uncertainty.

Like this movie, for a lot of its runtime,
doesn't want you fully knowing what

these guys have done, what they knew
when they knew it and how responsive

and how responsible and deserving
they actually are of what's happening.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I think the major twists in this
movie start in this next scene

where they go to find the dead body.

Like they go to find the girl
and find out what he hit.

He finds the dead body and is like
freaking out about the girl being dead.

Meanwhile, Jefri has wondered off and
was like um, there's a bus over here.

And they go to investigate the
bus from the orphanage, which

is crashed into the woods there.

And uh, they step on there.

And suddenly the one dead kid
doesn't seem like such a big deal.

The entire bus full of dead kids
with horrible, like, head trauma.

Ben: None of them have eyes.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: None of them have
eyes, no eyes, just like-

Emily: Some of them have eyes.

Ben: There.

Some of them have one eye.

Emily: Yeah.

That's a lot of hollow eye sockets.

Ben: This movie is atmospheric
and disturbing and unnerving.

And then just gives you in
your face fucked up gore.

Like most movies only do one or the other.

This one does both.

Emily: Yeah, I'm getting Saw vibes,
like from the uh, gore in this movie,

but it's a lot more theatrical.

Ben: Yeah.

It's like, normally you only get
like Poltergeist-esque spooky

vibes or you get Saw-esque gore.

You don't usually get like this
level of creepy unnerving direction

and like almost psychological
horror with like torture gore.

Emily: With kids.

Cause like there's some, I mean, there
are some darker scenes, like the more

upsetting scenes in the movie Poltergeist,
I feel have some equivalence here, but

you know, nothing bad really have, like
the kids are maybe sucked into a vortex

or like attacked by a clown or maybe the,
you know, but like it's all, you know.

Jeremy: No kids in Poltergeist get shot.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: No, no other movies make
an 11 year old go through some

fucking Reservoir Dog shit.

Jeremy: They, to their credit load
up the dead girl in the back of their

car to take her back to the orphanage.

They do not load up the
entire bus full of dead kids.

They just leave that there.

Ben: That's just a storage issue.

You can't blame them for that.

Jeremy: Yeah.

They want to call the cops.

None of their cell phones are working, so
they're like, all right, we're going to go

back to the orphanage and call the cops so
we can tell them everything that happened.

Meanwhile, we're finding out at
the same time that the phones

don't work at the orphanage cause
they, they tried to call them.

Back to the orphanage.

Uh, Dina is flirting with Hasbi and
Rani is showing Haqi a video of Ms.

Mirah who has this very distinctive gait.

As they say that her left leg was
broken by her father as a baby.

And now she's sort of drags it behind her
sort of walks on her ankle a detail that

I didn't feel it was terribly necessary,
especially since it really projects

somebody who is going to be seen as a
villain throughout those movie as disabled

in a "disability, is creepy" kind of way.

Emily: Yeah.

They do show her leg and how it sort
of perpetually like at an angle.

Real painful.

Ben: Yeah.

I love how after Haqi and Rani,
have had this talk about what

it's like having parents in the
pros and what's not nice about it.

And then hearing the story of how she
got her, he got this club foot from

her father breaking her leg as a baby.

And Haqi just dropping the mic
with a scorcher of the line.

And you still want parents?

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, that was a really good,
that was some good interaction.

Like the interactions with the kids in
this movie are some of the best, like

Jeremy: Except Sandi, who does not matter.

Emily: Well, sandi's just
there, but like, you know.

Jeremy: They did not give them a third
orphan kid to, for him to play off of.

The other two had their person
and Sandi is just there.

Ben: Yeah.

Look-

Emily: They have a phone-

Ben: Haqi is the best.

Yeah.

Dina is witty and thirsty.

And Sandi is.

Emily: He's part of it.

Yeah.

I will believe that Haqi has a
billion followers on Instagram.

I'm hoping.

Yeah.

Like I'm hoping, I'm hoping he
has some legal protections since

he is a minor, but yeah, like the
concept of Haqi I am all about.

Jeremy: Yeah.

We get Hanif and Jefri
coming back with the body.

They call Anton down to show him,
show him this dead girl they've got.

And they're like, "Hey man,
we gotta use the phone".

And then he's the ah, the
phones aren't working.

He's like, there's some
real bad shit out there.

There's a like- like the whole orphanage
full of kids is dead in the bus.

And Anton's like, ah, I'll, let me go
check it out and I'll you know, go on

to, you know, call somebody about it.

Oh, I'll check it out.

And then, you know, I'll deal with it.

You guys just stay here with
your your unstable families.

Ben: I do like how he was like, I'm
not taking the dead girl car though.

I'm not pulling up to the police
station with a corpse in my trunk.

Okay.

I will go.

And if there's some, if there's some
shit, I will then tell the police

there's shit and where to find it.

But I'm not going to a police station
with the dead body in my trunk.

Because Anton in this
moment, at least ,is a smart.

Emily: Except he's like I'm in a
horror movie, I'll be right back.

I'm going to go in the woods by myself.

Jeremy: He doesn't know
he was in a horror movie.

Cause Anton, whoa, God, he's got a real
bad- he's got a real unfortunate death

because he didn't do anything wrong.

As far as we know at this point.

Ben: Does Eva die?

Because if she doesn't then
Anton, I think is like the

only actual death in the movie.

Jeremy: It is unclear
if Eva or Lina make it.

Cause they are-

Ben: Well no, Lina.

Lina makes it because they mentioned
that her and Jefri are coming over for

dinner that night in the epilogue scene.

So we know Lina somehow survived.

Emily: If Lina made it
then fucking Eva made it.

Ben: Like I know, but Eva like literally
turned into a hive, so I'm not sure.

Ah, fuck it.

She doesn't matter.

Emily: A lot of things happen to a
lot of people in that weird, like

once it became like a whole Saw house.

Jeremy: So Anton goes out to this
bus to try and see what's going on

in there sees the bus is like, all
right, let me go check this out.

Gets in and immediately steps on an giant
egg and the egg hatches and is full of

millipedes and other insects and shit.

And they go full The Mummy on him and
just like crawl into him go under his eyes

and his skin and eat him from the inside.

And it's real bad.

It goes real bad, real quick.

Ben: Those centipedes and
the eyeballs popping out.

Like it's so graphic and gruesome
on its own, but it's this weird

combination of nothing is scariest
and it giving you the answer.

And it's still being fucking terrifying
because by doing it to, just to

him, you go like, oh God, that's why
all of them are missing eyeballs.

Centipedes ripped, like, popped out all
of their, these children's eyeballs.

Emily: That's some serious.

I figured it would have been the said
the bugs, like eating their eyeballs

cause you know, bugs everywhere.

Okay.

Yeah, I get it.

Ben: I feel like whether
they're popping them out or

eating them is splitting hairs.

Emily: Popping them out or- I mean...

It just takes a lot of pressure
from a centipede to pop out an

eyeball, unless there's like a-

Ben: It's a black magic centipede!

Jeremy: These are magical.

Emily: Fair.

Ben: Yeah.

They just got magic centipedes.

They gave you a magic Stripe.

Emily: They were in an egg,
which you know, was probably

hatched by a toad or something.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'll give you that.

Jeremy: Meanwhile, things are going
very bad for two out of three wives

back at the, at the homestead, because.

Emily: Real quick, I just want to mention
that when he gets into the bus, all the

kids are standing with their backs to him.

Ben: Especially when you remember they
were all facing front in the earlier scene

Emily: in the earlier scene,
they were all sitting as if, you

know, just lying dead in mortis.

And then when he gets on the
bus, they're standing, he cracks

the egg and then he's trapped.

And then, you know, he
gets all mummied out.

Like with bugs, not actually
like mummified immediately, but

um, well, I mean, who knows?

It looks like

Ben: they're standing and facing the back.

Then he steps on the bugs.

They start swarming him and
then they're facing him again.

Yeah, like they face front it's so scary.

This bus death scene is so fucking
scary, but this is like, fuck, this

is movie is so legit horrifying in a
way few horror movies actually are.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And this is where we're really hitting
just like the fucking gauntlet of this

movie, because this death happens when we
go back to the house and there's various

shit happening with various characters.

But the real important thing is like,
we've got Lina who is looking at herself

in the mirror and she is seeing herself
differently than she actually appears

on the screen and goes over and grabs
the paring knife from the fruit and

eat some of the fruit and then starts
paring away at her skin and like cutting

ch she cuts a chunk out of her stomach
and it doesn't seem to have any effect.

Other than that, she can
just cut this fat off.

And then she does the same thing
to her neck, like to these,

you know, rolls on her neck.

Ben: .Just describing it- it's
like, ah, there's this scene is

probably the most disturbing.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And I feel like we all kind
of know what's going on.

And then like Jefri walks in and
he's like, what are you doing?

And like, she turns toward him and we
can really see like what she looks like

for the first time and just have like
a big chunk cut out of her throat and

like bleeding from her, this part of
her stomach that she's cut all this

stuff out of and is freaking out.

Ben: I feel like that scene was in a
way a baptism of sorts because before

that scene, and during that scene,
I was a naive waif of a different

life who thought, oh, maybe there'd
be discretion shots in this movie.

And then this scene happened and I
was born again in the horrible fact

that there would be no discretion.

Jeremy: I want to take a second to
say, like, this is it's really fucking

horrifying, but the special, effect the
way they do it is so good because they're

like, it looks like she is carving chunks
out of her flesh and she's just taking

them off and throwing them to the side.

And like, you know, clearly
she's got like, fake stuff that

they've built in their prosthetic
wise so that she can cut it off.

But like, you don't see it.

You don't see it as prosthetic.

Cause it doesn't look like she's just,
you know, cutting plastic off of her.

It looks like she is carving chunks out of
her skin in a way that is very unsettling.

Yeah.

Emily: Cause if she doesn't bleed
at first, like when she's looking

at herself in the mirror and sort
of seeing, you know, hallucinating,

I guess she does, I mean, she
looks like she is kind of in pain.

Like as you know, it was very
meticulous and difficult to do this.

But she doesn't bleed.

We don't see her bleeding until we get
her husband witnessing what was going

on and now she could see that it hurts.

She's just all bloody from
this this self surgery.

Um,

Ben: The special effects in this
movie are top notch and seamless.

They fully immersed me in the movie
except for one fucking candle at the end.

And again, I just have to
commend the filmmakers.

They did such a good job,
like props, special effects,

cinematography, directing.

Like this is a really well made movie.

Okay.

Jeremy: This is happening sort
of simultaneous to the thing

in the bus and the scene that
moves directly from the bus.

Anton's wife, Eva is on the bed, chilling
and taking a nap or whatever, and like

looks up and two centipedes fall from
the ceiling directly into her open mouth.

And she starts choking on them and
is sort of like running out, trying

to plead with somebody to help her.

And nobody understands what's
going on or what's happening.

They're in the middle of having
this emergency with Lina already.

And like she's sort of pleading
with Nadya to help her and Nadya

doesn't know what's going on.

And finally she just like vomits
blood and bugs everywhere.

Like this big, huge puddle of, of
really viscous blood and centipedes

vomits in the middle of the floor.

Ben: It is the first
vomiting blood of the movie.

It will not be our last.

Emily: Vomiting blood is kind of like
refreshing compared to the other shit

that people go through in this movie.

Jeremy: That's the nicest thing that
happens to her in the scene, because

then we can still see that the, like the
centipedes are moving under her skin.

And she starts like carving in her skin
with her nails and rips a big chunk out

of her arm and centipedes come out of it.

And I was like, oh no.

Emily: They established earlier that she
had some phobia of flesh eating bacteria

because she had a rash at some point.

Which is why she's kind of hypochondriac.

But as somebody, okay, first of all, as
somebody in this very humid place, and

also like, you know, kind of old building
as someone who has chronic itchiness,

like having any idea that there was
anything crawling on you when you're

already like that upset about stuff.

And then it goes like
right into her mouth.

Oh God.

I mean, put a few more little
*ding ding ding* flags on that.

Also, you know, like self-harm

Ben: The centipedes on their own.

I'm like, Ooh, creepy.

And they're like, what if they're coming
out into people and out of people.

I'm like, I like that even less.

It was like, cool.

We'll do it a

Emily: lot.

The thing is that the bugs crawling
in and out of you is an aesthetic

that like, I use a lot in artwork.

So I'm like, oh, okay.

All right, let's see how
they did it this time.

Okay.

Jeremy: The next note I have on this
is just worst fucking parents ever.

Because Hanif and Nadya were
like, oh my God, these two

women are bleeding horribly.

This is bad.

Shit is happening.

Let's throw them in the car so
we can take them to the hospital.

And Hanif was like, oh, there's
not enough room for our kids and

Nadya's like, the kids will be fine.

And it's like, what on earth
would give you that idea?

Ben: Maman's here.

He's got this.

It's like, what makes you think he's
qualified to handle supernatural

murder, horror nightmares?

Emily: First of all, They're
talking about this and there, the

guys are already starting to think
like, Ooh, this is anything to

do with the thing that happened.

Is this the thing?

Is this the thing that, the thing,
oh, now our wives are like, you

know, just going totally nuts.

And um, you know, burning themselves,
Sandi is solid, Nadya solid, except

she's like, our kids are fine.

Meanwhile, the kids are playing billiards
in a room that has a cabinet full of guns.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Now they are air rifles had been seen,
which like, those are not non-lethal,

especially in short range, but should not
necessarily be as immediately dangerous

as say, you know, gunpowder guns.

Emily: Yeah.

And also there were
knives in that cabinet.

There was a lot of like
weaponry in that cabinet.

Ben: Those are definitely airsoft guns
and I don't know, maybe Haqi for as

awesome as he is just as like a weak
child weak, soft child, body there was

a lot of blood where he, when he got hit.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben: I don't think airsoft
pellets are the most penetrate...

Like make you bleed that much.

Emily: Yeah.

So before that they've been
playing billiards in this room.

Jeremy: Okay.

So yes, the parents all take off.

It's just the kids and the, you know,
people who are already at the orphanage

they're at this point along with
whatever malevolent forces are there.

Ben: They have no idea.

There's even a horror movie going on.

They think they're still just visiting,
like their dad's childhood home and

playing pool with like the cute boy
who hasn't revealed that he's a sore

loser, dirt bag piece of shit yet.

Jeremy: She is winning.

She wins the pool game and immediately,
like, he turns to uh, fucking not cool and

calls her a slut for flirting with him.

And she storms off.

Haqi in the meantime has decided to go
back and watch this VHS, which he turned

off earlier because it was too scary.

Ben: So let's not overlook
overlook the part where he

plunges the room into darkness
and then points a gun at her face.

Yeah.

Emily: He points at first, he's like
pulling out the gun acting super

fucking, we need to talk about Kevin.

And then like he points a gun at
a mouse or rat they've translated

it as mouse but that was a rat,

Ben: another brief adventure into
the wild, the wet and wild world

of briefly discussing class issues.

Emily: Yeah.

Where he's like, I'm not rich.

Like you, I'm going to sh I'm gonna
point this gun it also has a light on it.

And she's like, dude, what the fuck?

And you know, ollies out good for her.

Yeah.

So Haqi is washing the VHS tape.

Now I do want to mention that
Haqi also found a picture of Ms.

Mirah earlier in a photo album that
was hidden under a chest of drawers.

Jeremy: All the photos were turned
backwards so that you could see them.

I was like, as soon as that
showed up, I was like, oh yeah.

Oh no.

Emily: Yeah.

Well, Especially after seeing the photos
that we found later and that I was

like, that was one of those like Blair
Witch moments where I was like, oh fuck.

That's what was happening with that?

Like, that was a fucking dodge,
like, he, I don't want to

say dodged that bullet, but.

Jeremy: No, we know he's not good at that.

Emily: Point blank, c'mon.

Jeremy: Yeah.

So he turns on this VHS and she's limping
toward the screen to the point that

like, we can just see her chest at which
point he looks down because he can hear

her walking still and he can see her
legs under the television, like under

this entertainment center and looks up.

and the actual, woman Ms.

Mirah like leans over the top of this
television and like spews, blood, whatever

else on top of the TV and uh, Haqi.

Good for him gets the fuck out of there.

, And runs in what is clearly a safe
room where his, good where his

sister and uh, he is, you know, good
friend Hasbi, were just playing pool.

And uh, Hasbi is still
hanging out in the dark here.

And Hasbi, has had a rough time.

This VHS has been going on because
he's lost control of his hands

and his uncontrolled hand has
gotten a hold of the staple gun.

And by the time this poor
child Haqi reaches him, he is

stapled his entire mouth shut.

And he has the gun again and is
completely lost control of his arms.

They are being forced to do
something against as will and he

then proceeds to do shoot Haqi twice.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah, that was rough.

Cause like at first I was like, is
that a like, cause we didn't know

it's an airsoft gun and still.

Jeremy: When he loads it, when they
go in, when he's going to shoot the

rat, initially he loads it with the
uh, you know, the airsoft cartridge.

Emily: Oh, okay.

I didn't catch that, but I'm not
very familiar with airsoft gun.

So.

Jeremy: Probably short distance.

They are effectively the same
thing as just a normal gun because

basically it's just firing them
with compressed air instead of

you know, instead of an explosion.

Emily: Right.

Ben: Yeah.

This is just the scene where a
precious small child is tortured and

it's really fucking hard to watch.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, kids, gun violence-

Ben: Now, did we mention that this
is after the older child has been

forced to staple his mouth shot?

Emily: Yeah, no.

This is also like very much in the
black magic, like possession situation.

Ben: That was great.

Like how hard he was fighting against it.

Like how desperate he was like to
avoid stapling his own mouth shut.

And then when it just keeps happening
again and again, and he keeps

fighting back each time, like, fuck
this movie's scary and intense.

I know.

I just keep saying that, but.

Jeremy: Yeah, it is, like I said,
it's a difficult one to watch.

Cause that scene where where it
Hasbi is stapling his mouth shut is

that was the one where I was like, I
don't know if I can keep doing this.

Like, there's been too many
of these scenes in a row.

This is really rough.

And you know, then it gets
to the shooting, the small

child part of the movie.

And.

Emily: That, again, like that's one of
those things where like, this is how, you

know, this movie was not made in America
cause that shit would've not flown.

Jeremy: So meanwhile we catch up with the
parents who are fucking stuck in a loop.

This is maybe the most terrifying
thing, just like existentially to

me is they keep driving and they
keep passing the same mile marker.

And they can't get past
where that bus has crashed.

Like they can't get any further.

uh, Nobody bothers to check and
figure out what happened to Anton.

He's dead near here somewhere.

But at this point they're just trying to,

Ben: it's a real, it's a real out
of sight out of mind type situation.

Emily: I mean, they all, like two
out of three wives are like, you

know, bleeding out of everywhere.

Ben: I mean, it's too late for him

Jeremy: He's not bleeding anymore.

Ben: No.

Yeah, he is fully bled.

It is the past tense.

Jeremy: I'm with Nadya here, because
at this point at this point her husband

Jefri started looking at each other
and they were like, oh no, not again.

She's like, what the fuck do you mean?

Not again, like when did you,
when were you guys in some sort of

continuity loop coming back to the
same place over and over again before?

And why have I not heard about it?

And they're like so there was this thing
that happened where there is this woman.

Uh, At our school, Ms.

Mirah, who was doing black
magic and sacrificing children.

And so like we had to like help Mr.

Bondi like lock her up in this room.

And then she uh, headbutted
herself to death against the door.

So we buried her body in her room
and then covered it in cement.

And Nadya has seen a horror movie
because none of the rest of these

assholes have, and she's like, wait,
the body of the witch that you guys

murdered is still in this house where
all this crazy shit is happening.

And our kids still are
currently, we're turning around.

Ben: Nadya is great.

This is the scene that earns
Nadya, the ultimate status of

main protagonist of the film.

It turns out that the body being buried
there doesn't actually matter, at least

in this one, there's some sequel bait,
but just like that level of genre,

knowledge of wait a minute, you just
told me this whole ass story, and now

this is happening and you didn't think
there might be a fucking connec- you

didn't le- you left the body there?!

Emily: Yeah.

Well, And they know this like
before, like with the bus and shit.

So like, you know, from the get-go.

Yeah.

Like Jeremy, like you said,
they'd never seen a horror

movie because obviously yeah.

Jeremy: Maybe they didn't have
that much access to horror movies.

Ben: They only had VHSes is and
prob- I mean, I guess what's the

average amount of horror movie VHS,
is that an orphanarium should have?

Emily: Yeah.

So like, how did they leave?

That's the thing.

Ben: Okay.

So it is mentioned that Hanif
was adopted because Haqi

mentions his like grandparents.

So he didn't know he was eventually
adopted and either the other two were

adopted or I guess just like aged out.

Yeah.

I mean, they can't keep you there forever.

Jeremy: What they establish is, they tried
to run away from the orphanage at one

point, because this woman was doing black
magic and they couldn't leave, which is

how they remember this, you know, they,
they tried to run away and they kept

ending up back at the orphanage which
is exactly what's happening to them now.

And so they, they turned around,
go back to the orphanage and

things just get worse from there.

Ben: Another important orphanage question.

Do you think orphanages like show
them movies like Annie or Angels in

the Outfield just like give them hope
or did they try to avoid like, just

showing them stuff like Stuart Little.

Jeremy: It's just this and
Welcome to Raccoon City, and

Emily: There's a couple angles there
that I think are kind of interesting.

Cause one is like, this is a
story about orphanages that suck.

So now you know that
this one ain't so bad.

And then also like, remember the,
how this is a thing that's terrible.

That's happening to you
right now, you know?

So there's like two different
ways that you go with that.

Ben: Yeah.

If I'm running the on edge, I am
showing on these kids on a weekly

basis, Matilda a movie, all about
how terrible it is to have parents.

Okay.

How much better off she becomes
for not having to have parents just

to try to ease it a little bit.

Look you see, you have a
parents saying, oh great.

You see that?

Yeah.

Are you on parents?

But you can out of Danny
DeVito for his dad.

Wait shit.

No, that came out wrong.

Jeremy: Okay.

So the back to the orphanage and
they begin their quest to find their

children they find pretty quickly,
Sandi, who's just hanging out.

He doesn't know anything's wrong.

He's he does not know there's a horror
movie going on still at this point.

And Dena who has peaced out
after being called a slut.

But they can't find Haqi because
he's bleeding to death somewhere.

So like all of them are running
around trying to find Haqi.

I loved that the kids here are believably,
useless Dina, I think runs into like

a small entryway and looks at some
bookshelves and like, Haqi's not here.

Emily: She like picks up a cup and looks
under it and she's like, not there.

I don't know what to tell ya.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And so they're all running
around looking for Haqi.

This is where our beloved Nadya
runs up and is checking out Mr.

Bondi's room and decides to look
under his bed just to be sure.

And finds a little treasure chest
under his bed where he has tucked

away his favorite possessions.

Ben: Yeah.

Why did they keep being pig
squeal sounds in this scene?

Was anyone else expecting her to look
under the bed and there to be a pig there?

They're just pig sounds in this scene!

Jeremy: I think that's what breathing,
cause he has like erratic breathing.

There's also various points where
you're hearing the sound of Ms.

Mirah walking.

Ben: I thought in this scene where it's
like, oh no, a black magic like pig boy

has gotten into the old man room and now
Nadya is going to have to deal with this

magic pig, but no, it was the breathing.

I would have been into the magic pig.

I got excited.

Jeremy: Importantly, we haven't discussed
the fact that in, in the dad's version

of events it turns out that Murni ran
away when all this stuff was going on.

We don't know what exactly happened to her
after that, but she disappeared after Ms.

Mirah died and has not been seen since,
as opposed to in the version of the

kids, tell them at the beginning,
She was abducted by the devil.

So at this point Nadya finds
this chest and opens it up.

And there are a bunch of pictures of
the female children from this orphanage

in various states of undress and-

Ben: I think there is an argument to
be made for Bondi being the devil.

Jeremy: I mean, I mean, in one of
these pictures, you can see that

Bondi is the one taking the picture.

He's got his reflection in it.

And uh, you know, they're all, all these
little children, including at one point,

you know, they find Siti's photo in here.

Ben: I think it's reflection is in
all of them, which is pretty wild

from an evidence standpoint, or it's
just like, let me make sure that my

incriminating evidence has everyone knows
that there's no culpable deniability.

Emily: Those are the photos
that he has under his bed.

I mean, the other photo album
was under the chest of drawers.

Yeah.

That other photo album with all the
pictures reversed, that shit suddenly

became like 1000 times more terrifying.

Cause of like, oh, that's, you know,
those are the photos that pull out

in hard candy that they don't show.

Ben: If hard candy was this movie,
it would have done the castration

scene and showed it to you.

Emily: You would have
seen the whole thing.

Jeremy: You would've watched
balls being cut off in that movie.

Ben: Oh one hundred percent.

Yeah.

Jeremy: She goes to show
these pictures to uh, Hanif.

Meanwhile, outside Lina has left the car
and is out in the yard, eating handfuls

of giant furry, poisonous, caterpillar

Ben: Did not like this by which I
mean, this is a very well executed,

very affective horror scene.

That is disturbing the shit out of me.

Emily: She just wanted some grub.

Jeremy: It's one of those things
that watching it, you're like the

special effect for these caterpillars
is not great, but it's surreal

enough in this movie that like
it doesn't take you out of it.

Just like, it feels like an
infinite number of caterpillars

are springing out of this pile and
falling out of her hands being eaten.

And there's just still more.

And everybody's like, don't do that.

Ben: Inherently scary about
eating something fuzzy

because that's a terrible day.

Like I can't nothing good ever
comes from eating something that

can be described as fuzzy food.

You don't eat the fuzzy parts!

Emily: Sometimes if you're her.

Jeremy: I mean, peaches
are a little fuzzy, but.

Ben: A little fun peaches.

Oh, so little bit fuzzy that the
name for just a tiny little bit

of fuzz is called peach fuzz.

Peaches are the exception
that proves the rule.

Emily: I think we should describe
these Caterpillar's as spiny

because they're, I mean, yeah,
they are fuzzy, but they're spiny.

Like they're like little tiny porcupines.

I don't think that they're like stay up
stingers or whatever, but you know, that.

Ben: They probably do.

He says they're poisonous.

Jeremy: And she's going full on
Winnie the Pooh on that shit too.

Just

Ben: she is diving and she
is fucking eating them.

Like she is at the poisonous caterpillar
eating contest at Coney island.

Emily: That sounds like a good one.

Every 3rd of July.

Jeremy: And while this is going on the
dead girl in the back of the car wakes

up, wanders off while all of this shit
is going on and wanders into the house.

And everybody's everybody is surprisingly
glad to see her, because at this

point, if it was me, I'd be like, ah,
zombie and they're all like, oh good.

Ben: Which is crazy.

Like it given everything that has to be
weighted, the craziest red herring of

the whole movie is this girl awakened
to the backseat, palm slaps against

the glass red herring all the way.

And then after everything, it turns
out like, oh no, she's completely

unaffected by black magic.

She's just recovered
from being hit by car.

Yeah,

Jeremy: she's better.

Apparently black magic works on
Sonic wavelengths because she had her

headphones on when the witch walked in.

And so like, she just saw
everybody else started banging

their heads against the things.

And uh, like, so she tells
the story of the bus.

So the bus crashes, theoretically,
the the bus is what hits the deer.

And it caree ns off into the woods
and a large dark figure of a woman

walks in and looks at all of them.

And they all start basically
reproducing the way in which Ms.

Mirah died.

Banging their heads against
things until they die.

And I guess the centipedes come after.

Yeah.

Emily: Centipedes, they're also part
of it or just the black magic is here.

Sup.

Ben: Look, sometimes your
pre-game sometimes you post game.

Listen.

Sometimes you're the star of the show.

Sometimes you're behind the scenes.

Emily: Centipedes are like
backup dancers for black magic?

Jeremy: Yeah.

And then of course we have the wildest
thing, which is uh, Eva comes back.

So she can't let everybody
else like, have all the fun and

come out of the car bleeding.

She jumps on top of the car
and starts telling them that

they're all going to die.

And then being controlled by
this, you know, witch this queen

of black magic, wherever she be.

And we discovered that
what happened is Ms.

Mirah was doing black magic because she
was trying to save the girls from Mr.

Bondi, it wasn't working or was
working only to some extent.

And finally, she had to do something
about Murni because it turns out

Murni was actually her child.

Murni sees her being
buried and Murni takes off.

And we find out that it
is in fact, not not Ms.

Mirah that is doing all of
this, she's still quite dead.

But the Murni is The Queen of
Black Magic that has arrived and is

taking vengeance, on all of them.

And she is bad as fuck.

Emily: She's fucking awesome.

But so this whole sequence, you know,
if you're watching this movie, I

hope you don't blink because shit is
hitting you like immediately, like

you're basically the, you know, all
of these plot points are shuffling

past you like a deck of cards.

Like, okay.

So the first thing is that like,
Nadya just immediately jumps

to the conclusion that oh, Ms.

Mirah was trying to protect the girls.

We find out she's correct.

I mean, she knows relatively little about
the situation, but this is the, the the

conclusion she jumped to, which I'm like-

Ben: Clued into some universal,
unfortunate, universal truths that

the husbands, despite having grown up
in this situation are very blind to.

Emily: Yeah.

You know, which is fucking valid.

Ben: So I would say the most unrealistic
part is that an bus full of kids,

only one of them had headphones on.

Emily: Right.

Well, I mean, they didn't
have a lot of money.

They had VHS tapes.

Ben: They, she was, it was just her
turn to use the communal headphone.

Jeremy: We also, I had mentioned
get the plot point about Siti.

We've found out previously that
Siti is scarred the way she is,

because she fell when she was
carrying hot water as a child.

We find out she did that
intentionally because she was

trying to get away from uh, Mr.

Bondi and, you know, decided that
if she scarred herself, then he

wouldn't continue to abuse her.

She, you know, she, he would lose
interest, which is fucked up.

Ben: Yeah.

I mean, it's, that is something
that goes right under our

existentially disconcerting pile.

Because yeah.

This kind of thing is known to happen.

Emily: Yes.

And they the group, the protagonists
group also jumps to the conclusion that

Siti is the one who is behind this.

Because she's the one, she was
one of the girls in the photos.

And then they um-

Jeremy: Siti was the one who presumably
reached out to them about, you know.

Emily: Coming to visit.

Ben: Presumably we are dealing with some,
the movie maybe commenting on ableism by

their right, by their incorrect rush to be
like, oh, it must be this disabled person.

Emily: Yeah.

These, These slightly off-putting disabled
people that are running the show here.

But like.

Ben: Given that she was burned by
like a pot, by a boiling pot of

water right around her eye area.

I was wondering if she would just going
to start throwing around ice and fire,

like Shoto Todoroki in My Hero Academia.

Emily: But unfortunately, no, she
does not have ice fire powers,

Jeremy: That we know of.

Emily: That's the next, that's the
red magic in this film, red and

blue magic, red mage and blue mage.

She can cross class sometimes.

I mean, it depends on how far
you've leveled up your character.

Oh man.

But

Ben: fantasy war, the red mage is, when
you could do blue and white magic and

the blue mages copies, enemies abilities

. Emily: She learned how
to use the centipedes.

Ben: Blue magic is well-known
in final fantasy because it's

almost always useless and-

Emily: Listen!

Ben: To late in game to be worthwhile.

Emily: Fuck you, no!, frog song.

Siti's innocent.

She was being harassed.

She was being abused and Nadya asked
her, why don't you tell anybody?

And then Siti says that
it was actually Mr.

Bondi that burnt the girls alive in the
room in order to threaten her to those who

are remaining to shut up about the abuse.

And then it is confirmed that Ms.

Mirah was trying to use black
magic to exact revenge upon Mr.

Bondi and protect the girls which
honestly, and still in this day and age

our year 2022, I've considered black
magic to protect young people from abuse.

Ben: What I want to know is given
how crazy over powered, like black

magic is in this movie, what kind
of fucking dark warlock shit was

Bondi packin' back in the day?

Emily: I mean, I think he was
just he just had privilege.

Ben: Oh shit.

The ultimate source for magic.

Oh shit, that would do it.

That checks out.

Jeremy: So Murni, let's talk about
Murni, floating in with her, her cloud of

dark hair and her black goth ass dress.

And her no shoes and lands
in the middle of shit.

And is like, I'm gonna kill everybody.

Ben: Yeah.

Emily: And she liked forced chokes.

Some sh I think it was Hanif that
she starts like fucking Jedi force

or, excuse me, Sith force choking.

Ben: Murni is the most, like one of those
creative horror villains we've seen.

Like the level of creativity that she
puts into all the various ways that she

truly wants it torture these people.

It is a sight to behold
like she is an artist.

Jeremy: And waving off
adults left and right.

Emily: She's forced choking Hanif
and Nadya comes up, she has the

sickle that Maman had it in the
very beginning of the movie.

She like picks it up from the yard
and she's like, I'm going to get you.

And then

Ben: it's Rani betrays, the girl who was
fucking with Haqi the whole time spoilers.

She is a fucking betrayer!.

Emily: She's an acolyte
of the Murni of the witch.

And you know, honestly,
like that's that tracks?

Ben: Yes.

I wish we got one scene.

Like just a little bit, even if it, cause
to me it seems like clear that there's

some kind of mother like, like need for
a mother figure with that Rani needs.

And Rani sees Murni as.

That mother figure, and I feel
like there's enough in the movie

to infer that we don't really get
to see it actually on display.

Emily: Yeah.

I really want to see the movie where
Rani is learning black magic from

Murni and is like, it's this sort of,
I think they seem so Jedi to me because

of the, I think it's just because of
the force chocking, but she's like.

Ben: I think a little more Sith.

Yeah.

There must always be two.

A master and an apprentice.

Emily: Yeah.

Sorry.

Ben: And the apprentices secrets
apprentice that order of other

people, we got to kill Jedi.

Jeremy: We don't get the see all of that
because Nadya takes a two by four to the

back of the head and then we go strictly
limited third person to Nadya because she

wakes up back in the orphanage and there
is screaming and weird lights everywhere.

Ben: She wakes up in nightmare Saw house.

Emily: Yeah.

And I just want to talk about the
various torture rooms that are,

our characters have been found in.

Jeremy: She is dealing with a full on
like a haunted barn experience where like

you're seeing into other rooms and you
can't get to what's going on there, but

there's scary shit going on in all of them
places where everybody's being tortured.

And

Ben: then I wish we could
can edit this movie.

So she just looks in one of the
rooms and it's David S pumpkins.

Emily: We're part of it.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Yeah, she looked in one room and
it's, you know, the other adults

being tortured and she, you know,
it looks and it's her husband and

Jefri being tortured in another room.

And I think the real rough one is she,
you know, looks at a room and finds her

kids being tortured there and is trying
to like punch her way through the glass

to get to them and cannot reach them
and cannot do anything to help them.

Which is the true, which is, I assume
why, if this is how she is being tortured

is because like the most torturous
thing that you could do to Nadya is

make her watch all of this stuff happen
and not be able to do anything about.

Ben: Yeah.

So Sandi is puking blood,
which is the most, he will come

to contribute to this film.

Emily: And bugs.

Ben: Yes.

And I feel like blood and
bugs just go together.

Like blood and bugs are
peanut butter and jelly baby.

And Dina is getting really heinous
looking, invisible whip lashes.

Emily: Also speaking of bugs, we
finally have the thing that got me

with the bugs coming out of Eva because
her back was porous and a whole bunch

of Beatles came out of those holes.

Jeremy: Yeah.

She turns into a fucking hive and yeah,
the hives on her back look like a hive.

Bugs are coming in and out of the
pores of the hive and it is not okay.

Emily: Yeah, it's like they're
blackheads that are coming alive.

Ben: Audience, if you played
Bioshock, think the be throwing

powers, but across our whole back.

Emily: Yeah.

It's not like in if Candyman and the
new Candyman, it was kind of cool.

Ben: It is not cool here.

Emily: It's.

Here it is like, oh God.

And you can see that it's kind of
like that, like, it is kind of a foam

texture thing, but the bugs being
involved in her itching is just like,

Ben: Visceral so much about Eva's
is, oh, I could feel it on me.

Like, ah, it was Ooh.

Again, this movie is so well-made and so
good at making me feel so uncomfortable.

Emily: So here's, this is the part I
really want to talk about is the final

room that Nadya can go in, which has Mr.

Bondi and he's in a chair in front
of this alter full of candles

with a sickle stuck in him.

Hanif is in the- in the corner.

Haqi is in the other corner and bad-ass
Murni is kind of hovering there.

And Rani is kind of in the
corner being like, yes.

And we have the exposition of why
Murni's doing this and why she's you

know, killed all of these innocent
children and stuff like that.

And, you know, she's evil, whatever.

Jeremy: There is this line
where Nadya like then she's

trying to plead their case.

Why she shouldn't be killing her and her
children not, he says, we didn't know.

and Murni says, and that too
was a sin and it was like whoa!

Emily: Yeah.

That bit.

And then her whole thing where she's
like, look, I brought you here to

create hell, because I don't know
if there is a hell after death.

And so I'm going to make sure
that you are punished by going

through hell of my creation.

And that shit is fucking metal like...

Jeremy: That, I think justifies the
whole like kind of precarious setup

that we don't really know how this
stuff happens in the movie, which is Mr.

Bondi is dying.

And so he has to make sure that all of
these people that are involved in the, you

know, the horrible things that happened
to these children and then her mother's

death and burial fucking get what's coming
to them because she can't trust that Mr.

Bondi is going to die and go
to hell, like he deserves to.

Cause she's not sure there is a hell.

So she's decided the chance to go
ahead and fuck everybody up right

now so that, you know, they get
what's, they get what's coming to

them, even if there's not a hell.

Emily: That whole shit
was just so fucking dope.

And so she's like, okay, Nadya,
the reason that you're still like

intact is because you got to kill
your husband with a sickle and when

you do, I'll let your children go.

And I was like, okay.

Ben: Yeah, no, Murni is very much
trading being bad-ass and metal

for being sympathetic and likable.

Because from a moral standpoint where
she's like, look, I know he did this old

man did the abuse, but you who didn't
know who had never visited this orphanage

and had never known about any of it.

And it never known that any of these
people outside your husband even

existed until today, that's just as bad.

So you've got to suffer too.

Like,

Emily: There's a question.

Ben: That's crazy pants logic.

Emily: Yes.

But there's certain the logic
that, because they're family, they

have to suffer like that's okay.

Yeah.

That's evil.

But I think that, you
know, you not knowing

Ben: But bus full of orphans?

Emily: Yeah.

And the reason she said she murdered
the bus full of orphans is because she

thought that they'd be better off dead
than abused and fucking traumatized,

which like no being you, it's better
to be alive and traumatized than dead.

Ben: I think those kids should
get a say in whether or not they

are brutally murdered with magic.

Yeah.

Emily: But she was, she had, so like the
the system had failed her so thoroughly

that she's like, I gotta take this
into my own hands, no matter what.

And I've been traumatized so
badly that I gotta be the judge

jury and executioner of this

Ben: like, again, she is truly like,
and this is only in conversation.

Once again, with Shutter we're in
Shutter, we had a villain whose

retribution was against targets.

That was entirely warranted that fit
the level that severity of the crimes.

And in some cases even showed solidarity
and support with the innocent which

Murni don't give no fucks, she's
ready to kill like whoever comes on

her way, or doesn't come in her way.

Jeremy: In here difference to some extent
is that you know, the ghost in Shutter

is seeking retribution against the
people who harmed her for her own death.

Whereas Murni is seeking much more for
her mother's abuse and then death and

the abuse of all these other girls.

And then the fact that she has then
theoretically been creepy, witch

living in the woods for the last
decade or two um, since all of this

stuff, you know, happened, she has
been living out there in the wild

with no family, no life to speak of.

And she is taking out, she's taking
it out on these people who did get

to have that who, you know, were by
being part of the injustice done to

others and to her mother, or at least
turning a blind eye to it, got to have

these wonderful families and lives.

And she needs to take all
of that from them as well.

Emily: Yeah.

That's where I was going with her.

You know, th this definition of justice,
of course, it's not reasonable, but

like, you know, it's understandable in
her, you know, complete and utter rage,

Jeremy: She's not the queen
of good justice and logic, she

is the queen of black magic.

Emily: She's the queen
of black magic, which,

Ben: yeah, I'm not saying
she has to be likable.

No.

She just has to be hardcore
and metal and bad-ass and evil.

And like, she doesn't have to be
a sympathetic villainous figure.

I would just argue that there might
not be a lot like once you're murdering

orphans by the bus full where your
unit of measurement for how many

orphans you've murdered is by the bus?

I'm just saying lots of people have gone
through pretty horrific abuse and they

haven't killed bus, a bus full of orphans.

Emily: Yes.

Yeah.

Jeremy: She hits her fever pitch
of bad-ass here actually, which

is because she is, you know,
getting ready to force Nadya.

She's not going to force Nadya to take
his head, to take her husband's head off.

She's going to let her do it herself.

And to Hanif's credit, he is still.

On the right page here, which just seems
like, yeah, kill me to save our children.

That's absolutely what you should do.

Those are my children, which
I was like, "same buddy."

Emily: yeah.

Yeah.

I was like, all right, you get it too.

All right.

Cool.

Ben: Okay.

Vengeance against a old man.

Creepy pants, like monster.

Oh, a hundo percent, a thousand percent.

I will give you I'll
even give you like, yeah.

Let's extend that vengeance to
like Hanif and Jefri and Anton, I

think once it's like, and now I'm
just gonna pray on a woman's eating

disorder and make her mutilate herself.

I'm like, ah, I'm not as
into this plan anymore.

Emily: Oh yeah.

That, yeah.

I was just hung up on the orphans and
now I'm like, oh yeah, that's the wives.

Jeremy: Well, I mean, this sequence
here is pretty bad-ass because she gets

distracted because our boy, Haqi comes to
the rescue, puts a giant screwdriver in

her back, and this gives mom the chance
to turn that sickle on her and full on,

cut her head off and just cuts Murni's
head off completely with that sickle and.

Ben: Ah, Nadya went full fucking
demon Slayer cuttin that head

out, Aw, fucking Mom of the year.

Jeremy: Everybody's
fucking ready to celebrate.

And Murni's like, no, fuck that.

Picks up her own head.

Puts it back on.

Emily: Come on.

She's a witch you need more than that.

Jeremy: She's you know we're fighting,
we're in castle Dracula right here.

She's moved on to the second
stage of of the boss battle.

Put the head back on
and we're trying again.

At which point made me the weakest
thing in the movie happens,

which is Nadya grabs a candle.

And apparently apparently magic
black magic type is weak against

fire attacks because she just like
stabbed her with the candle and

fucking Murni goes up like she's
like, she's just covered in gasoline.

Emily: Well, she's a witch.

She's more flammable.

Ben: This is the one area where the
special effects fall short because

the second that Nadya picks up the
candle, the normal looking actual

flame is replaced by video game fire.

Emily: Listen, she had
the power of resolve.

Jeremy: And the way, the way that
she is burning, the whole orphanage

should then, you know, collapse in on
her as they have to run to get out.

Ben: That happens like nine out
of 10 times in this situation.

Emily: Yeah.

But guess what?

Fireworks on witch, witch burns up.

Everybody runs out, including Hanif,

Ben: except for Bondi who is old and
sick and evil and awful that he does

reach out like to Hanif and like
non-verbally begged to be saved.

And Hanif is just like, no.

Emily: Yeah.

It's still happening.

It's not happening right now.

Yeah.

Ben: There is a portion of the movie where
it's not clear how privy to which and what

secrets and evil things Bondi had done
that our trio of orphans made rich knew.

But ultimately it does seem that the movie
comes down to like, they did not know,

like they believe the story they were
told and they were completely unaware

of Bondi's crimes is what it does seem

Jeremy: like.

It does.

Even from some of what they say that
they think maybe they should've known,

you know, It's clear from the beginning
of this movie that they all kind of

worship the guy like you know, he
is credited by each of them as the

guy who raised them, who, you know,
gave them an opportunity to make it.

Ben: Yes.

There is no Shutter style reveal
that they are not good guys coming.

Like they are, they're just, they
were children made accomplices in

evil by the lies of the man who
should have been protecting them.

Emily: So after everyone runs
out now we switched to the

later and everything's okay.

Jeremy: It's sometime later.

And we're uh, Nadya is picking up
Haqi from uh, from school and he's

had a great day at school and.

Ben: Of course she's had a great day.

He's Haqi.

He's the fucking man.

Emily: I'm sure he's out there on his
Instagram being like check out all

of these scars from when I was black
magic-ed at I stabbed a witch with a

fucking two foot long screwdriver bitches.

Ben: Just nothing but a Haqi crushing it.

Emily: But like, what are they
saying to their therapist or what did

they say to their fucking doctors?

Cause like Lina had her shit all
tore up a fucking Dina had her.

Ben: Gas leak!

Gas Leak GAS LEAK,

Jeremy: I mean, that might be Eva's
least problem, cause she does have to

explain where her husband is because
nobody ever, as far as we know, finds

Anton whatever's left of him, presumably
at some point after this all happened

Ben: Did they go back for the bus.

Is that bus full of Anton
and orphan just still lying.

Emily: Right?

The, at the very end after like,
you know, we find out that Nadya

and Haqi and every one are good.

Jeremy: Siti and Mamon
are living with them now.

Yeah.

Yes.

At least in their car,

Ben: we don't know what happens to
Rani for like, she's just very upset

when Murni dies, but that's about it.

And we don't.

So we don't know what becomes
of her after being complicit in

horrific black magic torture murder,

Emily: but the guys are
going to sell the orphanage.

They have a sign up that says
it's going to be a hotel.

Yeah.

Ben: Deep in the bowels of the hotel,
the club foot, maybe there is a ghost

Emily: also nadya sees Murni in her rear
view mirror, and then she's not there.

Whoa.

And then.

We get the credits, which have scenes
stills from the original queen of black

magic, which looks fucking amazing.

Ben: Like, yeah, we might
have to cover that one day.

Emily: Yeah.

Like that one.

There's like a, some of the skull head.

There's like a ritual circle.

There's a guy with like
balloons on his face.

Ben: Technically, we all have skull heads

Jeremy: You're not wrong.

Emily: I think the original
queen of black magic was about a

woman who was slighted by a man.

And that sounds also cool.

And the witch looks a lot like Murni

Ben: familiar said her
name is still is Murni.

Like that's the connectors
that still Murni.

But yeah, it's much more a woman's scorned
taking revenge and like, you know, being

left for dead and then learning magic.

And then, you know, how far, you know,
losing herself to magic and vengeance.

Yeah.

You know, a good time in
Vegas is what I'm saying.

Emily: I mean, the clips of that
movie really do look like a good

time in Vegas, fire dancers and shit.

Anyway and that's that's
queen of black magic.

Ben: It's real scary.

Jeremy: Would not say in any way
that it is queer there's no sort

of LGBT representation in there.

Emily: No,

Ben: it's sure it's just
dealing with so many themes.

Jeremy: Yeah.

It makes some feints at class.

Like it starts tackle class between,
you know, the kids, especially

doesn't have time for that.

Ben: I don't know what it says about
class, other than the experiences of

poor and rich people are different and
they don't always understand each other.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: Cool.

Emily: I don't know if this has as much to
do with classes much of the representation

of uh Siti and, and Maman, but like,
there's a scene where they discuss, like,

you know, you don't have to be jealous
of them and their lives and Siti's.

Like I'm not jealous.

And she's like, there's this
really cute interaction between

them where they're flirting.

Ben: Oh, well there's the whole scene
where a Haqi like calls her pretty.

And then she's pretty much like
to ma to Maman and like, well, a

child complimented me time for sex.

Emily: She, there were joshin' each
other, but that scene with Haqi where

he's like, I think you're handsome.

And I think you're pretty.

And I was like, fucking Haqi.

Jeremy: Yeah.

It starts with Haqi sort of coming up
and being like people say, I ask too

many questions, but I really did want
to know like, what's up with your face.

And she's like, oh, you
know, I burned it as a kid.

I spilled water on it.

And he's like, I think you're pretty and
kisses her on the cheek and runs off.

Ben: I mean, I did love this.

Like that felt very realistic child
to me being like, Hey, I know I'm

not supposed to ask you about your
face, but what's with your face.

Emily: Yeah.

Like I'm still a kid.

I If you prick me, do I not
ask questions all the time?

Yeah.

Ben: I feel like, we're not, if there's
anything race-related we are once

again, not qualified to speak on it.

This movie takes stabs at class
discussion without hitting anything.

Nothing queer.

What I feel like this movie spends a lot
of time with, and I'm not, and feels very

complicated to discuss is this movie's
approach approach towards feminist issues.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: The movie is
definitely aware of them.

And wants you to, know
how bad all of them are

Emily: and Murni is like, again,
her motivations are understandable.

Her methods again are extreme
and horrifying, but like,

Ben: yes, the motivations, like, I
mean, institutionalized child abuse.

I mean, fuck how often
have we heard about that?

Whether it be in churches or in these um,
schools or all of these terrible, like,

these people are supposed to be protecting
children and just in the position of such

high institutional power where they're
free to just be a predator for decades.

Emily: Yeah.

So I think, I struggle with that,
like certain elements of the child

abuse, the pedophilia and all that
involvement in the story, like

whether it really needed to be there.

Because it, there, there was
already a lot of dead kids with

their eyeballs gone, you know?

And

Ben: I know that, I feel like that
maybe that particular twist would

have worked better in that version
my brain ran off with where it's not

supernatural and it's all just like,
who's killing who in revenge for what.

And it's very much the
worst monster is, man.

Emily: Yeah.

Like if black magic is really
involved, I want this to be

a full, like revenge fantasy.

Like I want less or more deserved.

Ben: So what you're saying is we
need to feel like this bus full

of orphans deserve to be killed.

Emily: Or if you don't kill
the bus full of orphans.

Ben: That's not an option.

That will never be an option to
not kill the bus full of orphans.

These orphans.

So goddamn racist these are
the most racist fucking or

infants you've ever seen.

Emily: Sure.

Like torturing animals and shit.

Yes.

That's the one thing is this movie does
not have a, I mean, there's a dead deer,

but there's not animal torture, which.

Ben: Just shy of torture.

Emily: Yeah.

No dogs died.

Jeremy: I don't think any
centipedes even died and centipedes

are doing great in this movie.

Oh yeah.

Ben: No, no one people are
powerless against these centipedes.

They're swatting.

They're reaching out.

Like no one can do shit.

Emily: Yeah.

They're impervious to everything.

Even the caterpillars.

Jeremy: Like beyond it being kind of
rough to watch I feel like the end moves

a little quick which also goes along with
the one thing that would be my biggest

problem with it is, is I want more Murni.

Like she shows up and is bad-ass.

But she doesn't have a lot of screen time.

You know, we don't even get any
peeks at her until she just floats

her ass in there and is like, hi,
I'm here to kill fucking everybody.

I don't care who you are.

Ben: What a fucking intro though.

Again, I can't do that when I say, oh,
Murni's methods are extreme or she is not.

It's quote, unquote, sympathetic
protagonist, none of that diminishes

from the fact that she is a terrifying
bad-ass, who is in metal as fuck.

And I love every second of her onscreen.

Emily: I will say that her, the
reveal of Murni and the actual, like

visual reveal of Murni was well timed.

Like those were, you
know, nice and adjacent.

Like, we didn't have to wait very long.

They were like, oh fuck.

It's Murni.

And then she's like, dragging her
feet across, like her toes across

the floor, like Baron Harkonnen.

Ben: You're very right about how rushed
the end with the fire is, which makes

me think her cutting off her head
with the sickle is already so much

more dramatic and intense a scene,
that I almost wish they just stretch

that out a little bit longer and have
that actually be like the climax.

Jeremy: I mean, picking up her head
and putting it back on is bad ass

and it feels like, all right, we
just elevated this another level.

And then like, it's like, oh, I'm on fire.

That's all.

Ben: So it's a very cool trick,
but it's almost not worth, it

would be it being immediately
after being like, ah, ha CGI fire.

Jeremy: I mean, I I feel like once you've
cut off somebody's head and that hasn't

killed them, there needs to be a payoff
there that has been built up in the movie.

Right?

Like that, you know, we've found
out something that, you know, we're

only now realizing at this point is,
has the potential to do this thing.

Ben: I think it's simple, black
magic works by the same rules as

the hydra of, Greek mythology.

Emily: I mean, fire kills, witches.

Ben: Fire kills most things.

Emily: Yeah.

But like, especially witches.

Ben: Witches too, yeah.

Yeah.

So I always love that like,
oh, a vampire's weakness is

a stake through the heart.

I'm like, whose weakness isn't
a stake through the heart?

Jeremy: I mean, fire theoretically
kills me, but if you hit me with a

candle, I'm not going to burst into
flames like I made out of gunpowder.

Ben: Yeah.

That's why wizard of Oz
has the best weaknesses.

Cause it's like, shit,
that is a real weakness.

If I get wet, I will not die.

Oh, wicked witch of the west.

I guess don't go on any good dates.

Emily: All the essential oils that
she's using, because she's a, witch

is what makes her more flammable.

Ben: Is that what we need?

Did we need like, Chekov's, like black
magic, like flammable skin ointment?

Emily: I think it's like implied
because of her fly ass outfit.

Like, you know that she's got some
fucking sweet scents and she's

been living in the woods and they
still couldn't smell her coming.

Of course, I don't think any of them has
a sense of smell cause they couldn't smell

a bus full of dead kids, but you know,
again, black magic, she's the queen of it.

Ben: Yeah.

That's all they do.

Not like they step on that bus
and they do not register a smell.

It is not until they turn on
their lights and they're like, oh,

something's not right in this bus.

Emily: Here's an 8 million
dead bodies in here.

Full of bugs.

Ben: Yeah.

How were they?

Not immediately, like, this is the worst
smell I've ever smelled in my entire life.

Like 10 feet away from the bus.

Jeremy: You know, they're
very freshly dead children.

Apparently.

I mean, there's been a couple
hours I guess, but I don't know.

Maybe those giant centipedes
to a great cleanup job.

Ben: You know, to be fair.

I do not know the decomposition rate.

Of dead children.

I don't know the decomposition
rate of dead people of any age.

Jeremy: And the only one we haven't
really touched on here that I think we

did mention in the, you know, when we
were talking about it is they don't do a

particularly good job with their portrayal
of physical disability in this movie.

Emily: Or mental condition like.

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, there is an
understanding of it there and it's just

really used for the value of horror.

Like, you know, eating disorder is
not addressed in a way that is, I

don't know, is sympathetic really
or important for story sensitive,

other than that, it exists and is
the basis by which he is killed.

That death and all the stuff that happens
to the other wife are very nightmare on

Elm streety it's like this character is
introduced and has one fatal flaw and, oh,

there it goes the killer exploiting it.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Through nightmare logic.

So guys, would we, I guess this is
one of the tougher ones I feel like

we've had with this question, would
we recommend people watch this movie?

Ben: I recommend this for the
one who thinks to themselves

like a horror movie, afficionado.

You know, this is a horror
movie fan's horror movie.

If you want to, this is the ghost
pepper, hot sauce of the horror movies.

Emily: Really well said.

Jeremy: It hits a real interesting
spot for me because like I love

horror movies that are like
supernatural and creepy and weird.

I hate horror movies that are
based so heavily in torture porn.

Like I dislike tremendously the
hostel series, but this movie hits

a spot in between where like there
is genuine horror body horror stuff

makes me incredibly uncomfortable,
is difficult to watch and genuinely

frightening and is done with that sort
of black magic, supernatural edge that

I'm like, I'm still into plot-wise.

So like, I think overall it
comes down with like a, yeah.

If this doesn't sound like a horribly
traumatizing thing to you just from

our description of it which I'm
sure a lot of people will then.

Uh, Yeah.

I mean, if, if you're, if you're cool
with what we've told you in it, then

yeah, it's definitely worth watching.

But man, that's a lot to get over.

Emily: I feel like if I saw this when
I was 14, I would've been all about it.

Ben: There would have
been so much fan art.

Emily: Well, I would have been
like, I'm going to get that

dress I'm gonna never wear shoes.

Ben: Murni would have been a Tumblr icon

Emily: yeah.

Well, I, I did like write a bunch of
this shit, like bunch of quotes from

the, from Dune, like the original
Dune from the Baron Harkonnen

in my bathroom when I was 14.

So

Jeremy: but speaking of which uh, Emily,
what would you recommend people, what

have you got to recommend this week?

Emily: I may have recommended this before,
but I'm going to go in for it again,

because not enough people know about it.

It's a series it's a mini series from
Finland called kingdom or the kingdom.

And it's about a hospital it's different
from kingdom hospital as far as I

know, but it has a lot of the same
kind of spooky vibes and the, and like

cinematography that this movie does
without like the Saw gore that we have.

But there was something about this movie
that reminded me a lot of that one.

And so I would check that out.

It gets upsetting, but it's not
as upsetting in terms of like

the sheer amounts of child death.

And yeah.

Ben: I am going to recommend a lemony
snicket's a series of unfortunate

events, both the book and Netflix show,
because like this it's about orphans

Emily: shit happening to them

Ben: and secondary connective thread.

Maybe some box car kids.

Mysteries.

I don't know.

That's got orphans Batman.

Batman's got orphans out the wazoo.

No, Simba's mom is still alive.

So lion king doesn't count.

Alright, Bambi.

Wait.

No.

Bambi's dad comes back in
the straight to DVD sequel.

All right.

Forget that.

What are some good Disney orphans,
iron man to another orphan.

Cause winter soldier killed his
John Slattery in the nineties.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I mean, I guess he was a teen orphan.

I don't know.

We don't get any

Ben: thankfully again, you know what?

Stick with angels in the outfield.

It's great.

Danny clever adopts that
like a super cute kid.

Joseph Gordon Levitt.

Also I also heaven is real and they use
celestial powers to cheat at baseball.

Emily: Well, That's what they
were missing in this one.

They just needed those angels.

Like if they were like, okay,
Murni, let's play baseball,

Ben: please bring back the sub genre
of supernatural creatures using their

talent to help teams cheat at sports.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

Teen Wolf.

Ben: Where is my reboot of the sixth man?

The movie where there's
a basketball player.

Yup.

Oh yeah, of course it is
the classic of the genre.

Jeremy: Technically we do
have the second space jam.

I mean,

Ben: did he not, he didn't cheat.

They won with their own
God-given talent and hard work.

Emily: I mean the sheer charisma, the
supernatural charisma of Jackie Daytona.

Jeremy: What I recommend I'm actually
in the middle of the second to last

season, the last season has just started
if you want something that is in some

ways, way less violent, but also will
elicit the same feelings of panic.

And you as this movie, better
call Saul is a fantastic show.

If you've watched breaking bad, it is
basically a prequel slash sequel it's

breaking bad, but with less drugs in
more legal drama but like it's Vince

Gilligan and his writing staff are
so good at characters and so good at

having at building these characters
and this, the character of, of Saul

Goodman um, in, in this series is so good
and the way in which he just infects

other people's lives and ruins them.

Uh, Despite being a generally
well-meaning guy just like Walt in

breaking bad is sort of incredible.

It's one of those shows that like,
it elicits panic in me when watching

it and is one of those things that I
super admire the writing, but I don't

think I could ever write anything.

Like, it's just, they're so
mean to their characters.

Things go so bad so often.

I would just feel bad.

But yeah, it's an incredible show and all,
but the current season are on Netflix now.

So I'm watching the second-to-last season
because it just popped up on Netflix.

Emily: I do know something else.

We're a bunch of really horrible
things happen to children.

It's...

Evangelion.

Ben: Oh man.

Bad things happen to kids like crazy!

Emily: Slide just fucking power.

Slide it into the base with my angel.

Jeremy: And now that Emily has mentioned
Evangelion we know that the show is over.

Uh, You can find all of us online.

Emily is on Twitter, mega underscore
moth on Instagram and megamoth.net.

Ben is at Ben the Kahn their website
at Ben Kahn comics where you can

pick up all of their books, including
Immortals Phoenix rising, and the

GLAAD nominated Renegade rule.

And finally, for me, you can find
me on Twitter and Instagram at J

Rome five eight, and my website
jeremywhitley.com, where you can

check out everything I write.

The podcast is on Patreon at,
Progressively Horrified our website at

progressiveluhorrified.Transistor.fm
and Twitter @proghorrorpod.

Come talk to us, tell us what
you thought of this movie.

Tell us why you hate us
for making you watch it.

Because man I'm sure will.

I'm sure somebody will watch this before
listening to the podcast and we'll have

to hear the trauma this caused them.

And then speaking of loving to hear
from you, we would also love it.

If you would rate, our podcast and review
it wherever you're listening to it so

that we can get some new listeners.

They can find us wherever they
are searching for podcasts.

Guys, it's been a ball.

This was a real experience.

This one.

Ben: This is the movie.

Watching the movie may not have been
fun, but talking about it sure was.

Jeremy: Thanks to all
of you for listening.

We will see you next week and
until then stay horrified.

Alicia: Progressively Horrified
was created by Jeremy Whitley

and produced by Alicia Whitley.

This episode featured the horror
squad, Jeremy Ben, and Emily.

All opinions expressed by the commentators
are solely their own and do not represent

the intent or opinion of the filmmakers.

Nor do they represent the
employers, institutions, or

publishers of the commentators.

Our theme music is epic darkness
by Mario Cole oh six and was

provided royalty free from Pixabay.

If you liked this episode,
you can support us on Patreon.

You can also get in touch with us on
twitter @proghorrorpod or by email

at progressivelyhorrified@gmail.com.

Thanks for listening.

Bye.