Jeremy Whitley: I think both Ben
and I are on the like, That's a

thing we're going to do someday.

A narrative podcast.

Yep.

Going to happen.

Ben the Kahn: They're hard.

but I already sleep so little.

Sara Century: Yeah.

Yeah.

They're worth it.

It's hard.

You get really into the world of
it, like listening to all of the

other horror podcasts, like the
old classic radio shows and stuff

like that, where like Vincent Price.

On a ship full of rats or like
whatever, like that, those old

stories from the fifties and sixties,

Jeremy Whitley: listening to
Steven cam talk about how much

time they spend on old gods.

I'm just like, that sounds like a lot.

I'm just like, I just want to write the
stuff and maybe do the, speaking part.

And I want somebody else
to do all the production.

I just want it to sound

Ben the Kahn: good.

I want to voice characters, but not
like any of the cool characters.

I only want to voice like the annoying
characters that the audience is

gonna absolutely fucking despise.

I feel like being really mean.

Give me the real Josh

Jeremy Whitley: Gad type roles.

like, I know it's not true, but I
really wanted to be like, like on

this podcast, just seem too mean.

All right.

I

Ben the Kahn: am what I am.

Jeremy Whitley: Good evening and welcome
to progressively horrified the podcast

where we hold order to progressive
standards that never agreed to tonight.

We're talking about the movie
that we all learned this week.

You can't watch while doing the laundry.

It's a tale of two sisters.

I am your host, Jeremy Whitley,
and with me tonight, I have a

panel of cinephiles and cinebytes.

First, they're here to challenge
the sexy werewolf, sexy vampire

binary by co host Ben Kahn.

Ben, how are you tonight?

Ben the Kahn: Jesus, movie.

Buy a gal dinner first before
you completely mindfucker.

Jeremy Whitley: Oh

Ben the Kahn: my god, I'm almost glad
I didn't take any notes because all

my notes in the first like hour and
a half of this movie I would have

had to have thrown away as soon as
I got past like at the hour 20 mark.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, and the cinnamon
rolls, by our co host Emily Martin.

How are you tonight, Emily?

Emily: Well, apparently you can't do
your laundry to this movie, but I tried

to work out do this movie and I was
using that 15 second back button a lot.

However, for this movie, if, I
think this movie bought me mind

dinner because, It is gorgeous.

Upsetting, but gorgeous.

Which is how I like to be.

Ben the Kahn: Very bold.

To go both psychosis and ghosts.

Jeremy Whitley: I like my
women, I like my horror movies.

Upsetting and gorgeous.

Ben the Kahn: Well, I gotta say, a
good chunk of this movie required

me to root against the mean,
commanding, like, mommy type figure.

You know, there was some definite
cognitive dissonance going on.

Jeremy Whitley: I understand that.

And our guest tonight, friend
of the podcast and writer of the

new narrative fiction podcast
Medusa Masks, Sarah Century.

Sarah, welcome back.

Sara Century: Hi, I'm so happy to be here.

I did take notes, but all of my
notes are just like the colors.

Oh my God.

Can you believe it?

Ben the Kahn: The colors.

Look at

Sara Century: this angle.

It's like so beautiful.

Saying something just because it's
like where it's at, you know, it's

the notes are not good Or they are
there but they definitely are like the

notes of a high person for sure This

Ben the Kahn: is definitely a movie that
I would have liked to have Rewatched and

really taken time to sit with instead.

I finished it 15 minutes
ago, so you're just getting

another raw processing episode.

Sara Century: Yeah, I just rewatched
it, but I've, I saw it a long time

ago and rewatching it, I gotta
tell you, it still is surprising.

Jeremy Whitley: This was one of
those movies where as I was watching

it, I was like, I've seen movies
by people who have seen this movie.

Ben the Kahn: Yes.

Yeah,

Jeremy Whitley: absolutely.

It's not unlike watching Casablanca
for the first time where you're like,

Oh yeah, I've seen people do that.

Before we dive too deep into that,
Sarah, why don't you tell us a

little bit about Medusa mask?

This is pretty exciting.

Sara Century: Yeah, it's really fun.

I am always have been a fan of writing
horror stories and of course reading

horror stories both reading them
and then also reading them aloud.

And so I was thinking, you know, there's
so many narrative horror podcasts, but

there's, uh, A lot of them that have
like really good sound design, but

because I'm only one person, I was like,
let's do a minimalist one and do like

just my voice, just like one story, one
narrator, like that kind of situation.

So I'm going to see how that goes.

I'm going to do some old
stories that are public domain.

Like we're starting out with a Bram
Stoker did a story called Dracula's

guest, which was, I guess, like
supposed to be the intro to Dracula.

But it got cut and but they never say
that it's actually Jonathan or not.

So it's like a very interesting,
like, weird, creeper, like, that

era Dracula story, basically.

Like, Dracula flirting, which
is Dracula, like, trying to

ruin Jonathan's life, right?

Another definitely

Jeremy Whitley: not gay Dracula story.

Sara Century: Yeah, definitely not
gay Dracula is the star of the show.

Ben the Kahn: I'm just imagining that
it is a completely separate person,

and it's just a guy couch surfing,
like, with Dracula, and all this creepy

seduction's going on with Jonathan.

He's just like, kind of in
the background eating chips.

Emily: Glass onion kind of situation
with the dude on the couch.

Yeah, exactly.

Ben the Kahn: 100 percent the glass onion.

Yes, that was exactly what was in my head.

Yep.

Sara Century: It's like that.

I like your

Ben the Kahn: flirtier, gayer
version a lot better though.

Sara Century: It's basically that there
will be some old stories and then there

will be some new stories, like there's
a story by me, there's a story by a

couple of other people who I'm friends
with that have submitted stories,

and that's pretty much it, I guess.

I'm just gonna do it.

For a while, there's gonna be a Ko fi for
it, and uh, you can listen to me reading

the whole novel of Carmilla, which is
one of my favorite stories of all time.

Lesbian vampires are go.

Jeremy Whitley: Let me ask you because
I have seen this floating around a lot.

Have you watched the, uh,
the Carmilla web series?

Sara Century: I never have, and people
ask me this literally every time.

I did just read the, uh, Amy Chu comic.

I've heard

Ben the Kahn: fantastic things.

I really want to read it.

Sara Century: It's great.

Yeah.

Um.

The web

Jeremy Whitley: series is, I
guess, very big with a certain

subset of gay, well, gay women.

Sara Century: Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy Whitley: And like,
it's one of those things.

You would think me.

Like, I

Sara Century: love lesbian
vampires, like, more than I love

the air that I breathe, honestly.

Yeah.

Jeremy Whitley: It's one of
those things that I was like,

Sara Century: it seems

Ben the Kahn: to really
survive in 2000 culture.

Yeah.

Now, normally I love to bandy
about all the silly things in this

movie and all that stuff and delay
us until we get to the recap.

But not so much this week.

A, because there's really not much of
anything that's silly in this movie.

And B, because we really can't
even begin to fucking explain it.

Like even talk about it until.

We get to the recap or else it's
going to make extra no sense.

So everything is

Sara Century: a spoiler in this movie.

Yeah.

So if this is

Ben the Kahn: more so than most, if
this is a movie, normally I just don't

even fucking bother with the spoiler.

Fuck it.

You know what the show is.

This is one where if you haven't
seen this movie before and you

really do plan on seeing it.

Like, go, go and see
it and then come back.

This is a lot of spoilers and this is a
movie you do not want spoiled for you.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, I will say as far
as funny things in this movie, I gave

up on taking notes in this because like,
there's just a point where a few minutes

into this movie where it was like,
Okay, I recognize that they're fucking

with me, so I'm gonna just not bother
taking notes until I finish the movie.

But the one note I have is,
there's a ghost in this house

and it fucking hates birds.

Emily: Yeah warning, sad bird death.

There's dead birds

Jeremy Whitley: everywhere.

Emily: Yeah, well, there's a part
with live birds that they really

do show a lot of those dead birds.

Ben the Kahn: My one note was,
damn, this person who's suffocating

sure is screaming at the top of
her lungs for a really long time.

Emily: Yeah, I, okay, so this is one
of the very few times in my life,

that I'm going to say, Wikipedia MVP.

Because of the plot synopsis in Wikipedia
that definitely helped me in this case.

Ben the Kahn: Oh, there was definitely a
lot of, like, watching a scene, then going

back to Wikipedia and being like, Okay,
now what the fuck did I actually just say?

Emily: Yeah, cause I mean, they
really play around with, like, the

unreliable narrator, the non linear
story, you know, all this crazy shit.

Ben the Kahn: Again, we've watched
a lot of movies where psychosis

causes unstable reality and you
questioning what you're seeing.

We've seen a lot of movies where
ghosts are causing crazy ghost shit

and making you unsure of what you're
seeing and questioning your reality.

I have never seen a
movie that said Fuck it!

Completely unrelated psychosis and ghosts!

Emily: I don't think it's unrelated.

Ben the Kahn: Well, unrelated in the
sense that it's not, yes, they're stemming

from the same trauma but it's compared
to other stuff where, you know, like

Stephen King style, oh the bully is crazy
because, it's not like ghost powers.

Are causing it, it, are
causing mental instability.

That's just pure trauma response, baby.

Yeah,

Emily: We got ghosts.

And PTSD shock and various,
other things, complications.

So not only

Ben the Kahn: can you never be sure
about what you're seeing, you can

never even be sure about why you can't
be sure about what you're seeing.

Emily: Yeah, which normally
I'm like, I'm all here for it.

And the movie was pretty enough
that I'm like, sounds great.

Ben the Kahn: Oh, this is a
level of just indulgence that

I will never fault a story for.

Ever.

You want to do PTSD and ghosts?

Yeah, do it.

Go for it.

Fucking, most reviews would say pick
a lane, I say fuck it, you drift

it, you double drift that lane.

Go for it, movie.

I don't care if it makes the movie even
more fucking baffling and indecipherable.

You do you, you fucking gorgeous beauty.

Emily: Yes, exactly.

Like talking to the movie

Ben the Kahn: and all of
you listeners at home.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah.

So, uh, I'm going to do the recap on this.

If you guys read the Wikipedia,
you may recognize some of it.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah.

It's kind of necessary.

Referring back

Jeremy Whitley: and forth to this.

Okay.

So it is directed by Kim Ji Woon.

It was also written by Kim Ji Woon.

You may recognize that name.

They've done a lot of very well
regarded Korean, mostly horror movies.

But there's some crime
stuff there as well.

They've done a lot of very good stuff.

A lot of which they've also written.

The star is Im Soo Young.

Moon, Yung

y and Kim Kasu.

And that's it.

There's a very small cast in this movie.

There, there are a couple people that pop
in and out and throughout, but um, it's

mostly those four characters in this.

small space of this house.

So we start off with two teenage
girls Sue Mi and Sue Yoon both sort

of coming back to this house that
they've been away from for a while.

This movie is very good at not
saying things and giving you

bits of information throughout.

We'll eventually find out that, uh,
They are, they have been away because

of Sumi has been in a mental institution
dealing with shock and psychosis

and their stepmother, Eunju, who is
a little creepy in spots, but also

just sort of, a boss in some spots,
and also is just Seems unnecessarily

mean at times, especially to Su Yun.

The phrase

Ben the Kahn: all over
the map comes to mind.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, there are spots
in this movie where you're like, Oh,

the children are tormenting her and
there's spots in this where you're

like, Oh, she's tormenting the children.

And there's spots in this
where like, you're like, Oh,

they're all being tormented.

But who by?

It's unclear.

The thing we know for sure is it's
not the dad because he is checked out.

Oh my God, this dad is holy

Ben the Kahn: shit.

At one point he says.

I know I'm a bad dad and it's
like, I guess points for self

for not knowing that, but

Jeremy Whitley: Nobody argues.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah.

Yeah.

Like he's got big, I tried
nothing and I'm all out of ideas.

Energy

,
Emily: basically.

Holy shit.

Like I, yeah, we talk about Chip, the
trope of the, incredulous boyfriend

or the cr incredulous friend, you
know, the person who is just so

incredulous that they are, just a
detriment to the, uh, protagonist.

This man is like the vacuum of
action that this man represents

is incredible and profound, but

Jeremy Whitley: he's like Hamlet wandering
around in the middle of the Tempest,

like in the middle of Romeo and Juliet,
like people are dying everywhere.

And he's like, I don't know,
maybe I should do something.

I'm not sure.

It's like Hamlet wandering around.

Fast 10.

Like,

Ben the Kahn: yeah, he literally
like Charlie Brown sad walks

his way through every scene.

He's like,

Emily: yeah, like the difference between
him and Hamlet is that Hamlet says

funny things like Hamlet says stuff.

This man does not say jack
shit other than like, I guess.

I'm sorry.

And that's it.

Like,

Ben the Kahn: well, I am trying to
imagine because again, this is where

I need the rewatch so I can try to
see what's going on through his eyes

because from our side, there is 3
people's worth of insane drama going on.

That is all just 1 person.

Emily: But haven't you
had those days though?

Jeremy Whitley: His daughters
want nothing to do with him.

It would seem at least.

Sumi seems to want nothing to
do with him and she is the only

one he seems to want to talk to,
uh, which will be plot relevant.

Yeah, he, he rarely, if ever, talks
to Suyun and Eunju is like trying to

throw herself, her entire body, And
he is not interested despite the fact

that they are married, presumably, and,
uh, we'll find out that there's some

Ben the Kahn: Which, again, post twist,
what the fuck was that in real life?

What was going on in actuality?

Emily: Yeah, yeah, that that was
one of those moments that I was

like now looking back on it because
the Wikipedia says that they're,

Ben the Kahn: the Wikipedia is
good about maintaining spoilers.

I am not.

I already gave you the fucking warning.

Emily: Well, that's fine, but like,
the Wikipedia says about the Injo

the relationship there, but then
if she was never really on screen

until later, what the fuck was that?

Exactly.

Yeah.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah.

So Su Yun has a nightmare
about her late mother's ghost.

she's giving the body
language of Hung herself.

But there's also like, she's bleeding
from under her dress and a hand

comes out from under her dress.

It's generally an unpleasant scene.

a little unsure what's going on there.

Uh, the next day, Sumi finds
a bunch of family photos.

I don't understand how that

Ben the Kahn: works post twist.

Again, a great scene that
creeped me the fuck out.

Now looking back on it, I
don't understand how it worked.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah so Sumi finds
a bunch of family photos and this

is where we learn that Yunju was
formerly the nurse of their mom.

Their mom was, like, very sick.

She was the live in nurse.

And at some point, we sort of get,
get bits and pieces and I have to put

together that the dad was sleeping
with the live in nurse while the mom

was still sick and being cared for.

This motherfucker.

Very much alive.

Ben the Kahn: Hold a full Newt Gingrich.

Yeah.

He did a John, he did a John Edwards.

Emily: I guess he did do one thing.

I guess he did one thing in the story,
and that was Yes, he cheated on his

Ben the Kahn: dying wife.

Emily: Cheated on his dying
wife, which caused a bunch

of other shit, you know James

Ben the Kahn: Sutherland would
be like, Damn, dude, you suck.

You'll get that joke,
look up Silent Hill 2.

Oh,

Jeremy Whitley: yeah.

Sumi discovers that, uh, there are
bruises on her sister's arm, and she

confronts Yoon Joo about it refuses
to apologize, and like, they have

just this super vague conversation.

There's a lot of super vague conversations
in this about like, oh, that's,

that's what she gets, basically.

That night, their aunt and uncle
arrived for dinner which is the

craziest fucking scene in this movie.

it's incredibly awkward.

The Yunju and the dad are talking
to the Aunt Knuckle and mostly

Yunju is doing all the talking.

She is Ranting and raving and
telling this really involved story

that the uncle should remember.

He does not.

He does not remember any of this.

And, uh, they are all looking at her
like she has lost her absolute mind.

And she is very upset by this.

But that is quickly slapped
onto the table as the aunt.

Starts choking falls onto the
ground and later, like, has serious

seizures and is suffocating.

And eventually, like, they leave
and she tells the other guy that

she saw, or tells the uncle, her
husband, that, uh, she saw a girl

ghost or a creepy girl under the sink.

Ben the Kahn: Oh, that sink
girl is so fucking creepy.

Yeah.

The sink girl is

Jeremy Whitley: very creepy.

Yunju goes to, uh, goes to check it out.

And we have a story.

Series of jump scares.

That was one of those.

I haven't had a good jump scare like
that in a while on this show where I

was like, I know what's coming if I
can know what's coming and still like

jumped halfway across the couch when it
actually happened because they drew it

out and faked me out a couple of times.

Yeah, this is like the, one of the
wilder heights of the movie here.

So, uh, yeah, the thing grabs Yunju's arm.

We don't see what happens
after that though.

Yunja's relationship with her
stepdaughters gets even worse when

she goes to confront Siyun and, uh,
finds her dead bird in, in her bed.

And then when she doesn't apologize
or then doesn't apologize right,

she locks her in a cabinet.

Well, locks her in the, the wardrobe.

She does not go to Narnia.

Ben the Kahn: Also, they've been throwing
up weird flags about this wardrobe.

This is a plot relevant mystery wardrobe.

Emily: Because dad is like,
don't talk about the wardrobe.

And I'm like,

Ben the Kahn: This dad fucking sucks.

Jeremy Whitley: What is so great
about that fucking wardrobe that

he kept that after this shit?

That's insane!

That wardrobe would be so far gone.

That would be fire.

That wardrobe

Ben the Kahn: should be ashes.

Emily: Maybe it's like worth a lot, but
I would just sell it and be like, yeah,

nothing bad happened to this wardrobe.

Don't ask questions.

What's that saying?

Ben the Kahn: It really speaks to the
level of just checked out the dad is yeah,

Emily: I mean, I think he's
in shock But that's not that's

no excuse for his bullshit

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah so Sumi apparently
sleeps through this whole thing that and

you know ends in Su Yun getting locked in
the wardrobe You and find, she finds her

crying and half asleep in the wardrobe and
then pulls her out goes to tell her father

about the abuse, Sumi is going on and on
about all the things that her stepmother

is doing to Su Yun, and the dad keeps
saying, stop this, knock it off, I don't

know why you're doing this, and finally is
like, I don't know why you're doing this

because Su Yun is dead, like, she's dead.

She died.

Ben the Kahn: Bombshell number

Jeremy Whitley: one.

Sara Century: Yeah, that's just like the

Ben the Kahn: first one.

Right?

Like you think it's like, you think
now you're in the movie, like,

no, this is just like the first,
this movie is fucking full on just

shelling you with plot twists.

Emily: That is fully where I
like paused it and looked at

how much time there was left.

I was like, Oh fuck.

Ben the Kahn: Well, that's when the
movie really clicked for me because

there was this weird sense of like, Okay.

What is this go?

Yo, what the fuck's going on and sometimes
it's intentional and it comes together

and sometimes the movies just truly
weirdly or poorly in and you so but

that was one where I'm like, okay every
instance of I don't know What was the

fuck is going on is entirely intentional

Jeremy Whitley: The first,
that reveal made me feel smart,

because I was like, I clocked it.

I clocked it that the dad
never talks to Su Yun.

Like, he's treating her like
she's not there, which she isn't.

that point I'd been like, Yeah, but
why the fuck does the stepmother

see her if like, like, because the
stepmother does talk to her, she

fights with her, she locks her in a
cabin, like bombshell number two on

Ben the Kahn: its

Sara Century: way since another bombshell.

Yeah.

Jeremy Whitley: yeah, even though
like she sees Sun Yu like crying

next to her uncontrollably at this
point, she, finds out that she's dead.

The next morning she wakes up to Yunju
dragging a bloodied sack through the

house, just beating it which she is, Sumi
is dead certain is, like, that Suyun is

dead or beaten inside this sack they get
into a fight over it, Yunju and Sumi are,

like, fighting all through the house,
Yunju beats her ass and is threatening

to, like, Drop a statue on her.

And get

Ben the Kahn: a knife going
through a real ish looking hand.

Yeah.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah.

And like, we caught her, like
dropping this statue on to Sue me.

We get the dad coming home and
discovering Sue me unconscious

in the middle of the floor.

With like the sculpture broken around
her and inside the sack we discover is

a, uh, is a doll a big like porcelain
doll which, uh, is wild because We've

been getting these bits with the dad
throughout, importantly, where he is

talking on the phone to somebody, and
we don't know who it is, but he keeps

being like, I can't do this on my own.

I need somebody to come help me,
despite the fact that his wife is there.

Ben the Kahn: He's like,
attempting to do it on his own.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, I mean,
everybody in the house seems very busy.

Yeah, so he, he finally,
like, makes this call.

Is ultimately, like, we get the
reveal that Sumi and her father were

alone in the house the whole time.

The whole length of this movie so
far, Yoonju was never there so she

was imagining herself as all three
of these people, it's revealed

that she has DID, dissociative,
dissociative identity disorder

Ben the Kahn: A good chunk of this
movie was her split personality

abusing her hallucination.

I'm not quite sure what to make of that.

Emily: Well, the hallucination,

Ben the Kahn: all

Jeremy Whitley: three characters.

Ben the Kahn: There's a ghost
and there's a hallucination.

Unless the hallucination is also a ghost.

I don't know.

This movie just does not.

Emily: I think that, I think the ghost.

Jeremy Whitley: I think
the ghost is separate.

I think,

Emily: yeah, the ghost is
separate, but part of it.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, I think so.

It's the Su Yun that we're seeing
the perspective of throughout

the movie because she does
have several scenes by herself.

I think it's still Su Mi, as is the Yun
Ju that we're seeing throughout the movie.

We do learn that Yun Ju is a real
person and is still very much alive.

When she can fucking pull off a suit.

Holy shit.

Emily: She's very glamorous.

She's she is a gorgeous
and upsetting person.

Jeremy Whitley: She comes to visit
Su Mi at the mental institution.

And she's trying to reconcile with her.

They're trying, she's trying to get
along and I guess, you know, be a good

stepmother but Sumi is, is not having it.

So Yunju decides that she's gonna go
back to the house, and now that we know

there is nobody else there, she is alone
by herself, we are still, she is now,

the real Yunju is hearing footsteps and
things closing and stuff from upstairs.

So she goes up to investigate and, uh,
opens the wardrobe and the real Su Yun's

real ghost crawls out of the wardrobe, all
the ring and, uh, very much kills Yun Ju.

Ben the Kahn: Oh yeah, she dead as fuck.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, Su Mi,
apparently can tell this is

going on from the, the mental
institution, is very excited by this.

That's just

Ben the Kahn: natural twin tuition.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, well, I mean,
they're both, there's a point where

they both are hearing Su Yun whistle
this tune that their mother used to

love they're both hearing it from
where they're at, respectively.

So, uh, yeah, she's, I guess, apparently
happy that her sister is, Finally at peace

which we then finish, we finish with a
flashback, uh, which is a wild decision.

So, it's revealed that We

Ben the Kahn: need more
bombshells, we've got that Yeah.

Is Ghosr also real bombshell 3?

Haha, we thought you understood why.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah,
there was an intact ghost.

Ben the Kahn: I definitely, yeah,
I definitely had the thought of

like, Oh damn, and ghosts are real.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, this is,
this is where we really get the,

like, the explanation, I guess.

It's very little explanation that
like, the dad was sleeping with Yun

Ju while his sick wife was still
alive and she was nursing her.

And the girls found out about it.

And Sooyoon was not happy about it, and,
you know, went upstairs and threw herself

on her bed, her mom came to comfort her,
her real mom came to comfort her, and

Sooyoon fell asleep, and when she woke
up, found her mom Had hung herself in

that wardrobe and also, I guess, taken
a lot of pills so some combination

of hanging herself and overdosing
caused her to die in the wardrobe.

Very sturdy wardrobe, this, which then,
like, when she goes to help her, to try

and help her mom, the wardrobe falls
on top of Soo Yoon she is trapped under

it, being crushed Yoon Joo hears what's
going on, goes up to go help, discovers

what has happened, and decides Maybe not.

Maybe she's not gonna help.

Starts to walk away, and then
decides, well shit, she can't walk

away, she's gonna go back and help.

At which point she runs into the real
Sumi of this time, who's like, bitch

I hate you, get out of my house.

I'm leaving.

You suck, you're a terrible person,
and Yoonjoo's like, you're gonna

regret saying that, and then proceeds
to not go help her sister not die.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah, to prove
she's not a terrible person,

she lets an innocent girl die.

By far the most terrifying and unsettling
part of the movie is Sooyeon under this

bookshelf, got her fucking fingernails
scraping from the underneath it.

Cleaning for Elf is fucking,
ugh, just god awful terrifying.

Now, the mother.

Emily: I The actual mother?

Ben the Kahn: The actual mother,
who is dying and being cheated on.

And I really hate to criticize
a character like that.

And I'm not even And I definitely
don't want to criticize the

depression and what that drove her to.

Jeremy Whitley: But hanging yourself
inside your daughter's wardrobe?

Yeah, yeah,

Ben the Kahn: doing it where your
child, where you're like, your

child daugh where you're like, girl,
daughter, is Your younger, already

Jeremy Whitley: unstable daughter

Ben the Kahn: Is guaranteed to
be the one to find your body.

Emily: Yeah,

Ben the Kahn: well, I mean I've got
a, I've got a quibble with Oof, well,

execution's not the right word, but oof.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, I mean, so we,
I mean, we close with Sumi leaving,

presumably this being the instance which
has sort of caused her to dissociate.

Not, yeah, at this point she has
walked away from the house, not

knowing about what happened to her
mother or her sister, and having

inadvertently caused her to leave.

Not their death, but having caused Yunju
to not help her her sister so obviously

she feels some guilt over this, and
then as we get the credits, we see

like, there's a scene earlier where we
see the two girls sort of sitting out

at the lake together at the beginning,
and it becomes clear that there was

no second sister there, so it's just
her sitting out at the lake watching.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah, also, when it comes
to blame for deaths Sui did nothing

wrong, Yunju is a fucking monster.

Emily: Well, everybody who was
having, the dissociation and

everything solid reasons there.

I, yeah, I can't, the mom's choice
of place, I mean, that's drugs.

Like, I, who knew if she was
even aware of where she was, but.

Ben the Kahn: I mean, like,
I don't want to, I don't want

to criticize the mom joke.

The, look, this movie is so fucking
bleak that the only room I have for

jokes is the dying woman's suicide.

That's what the, that's the material this
movie's giving me to work with, okay?

Emily: you.

Ben the Kahn: Not a rabbit
hole, like, again, I, please

don't read too deeply into this.

Emily: I mean, it is pretty
fucked up that Siyun had to like,

Ben the Kahn: No, the real, no.

Sack Kahn in her

Emily: own fucking closet, no, the

Ben the Kahn: real fucking monster
is Yunzhu, is Yunzhu for, Seeing an

overturned fucking wardrobe where a girl
is being crushed to death and not just

instinctively, no matter what, immediately
rushing to try to lift it and help her.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, because
you're tempted to be like,

Oh, she was gonna go back.

But then you realize that she saw
it first and decided not to, and

then had a change of heart to being
the bare minimum of decent person.

That

Ben the Kahn: alone, the time it took her.

To change her mind to go back?

Hell.

Hell.

She's going to hell.

Emily: No, yeah absolutely,
like, decided to ollie out there.

Like, when she walked up and found the,
like, toppled wardrobe and just stood

there and then turned to fuck around.

Like, there's, that's, there's
no two ways about that.

Ben the Kahn: No, that is good.

I, I am glad you were
retroactively ghost murdered.

Emily: Yeah,

Sara Century: Even if you know

Jeremy Whitley: how to wear a suit

Sara Century: Yeah, you start to kind of
be like, I'm a little bit on your side

at certain parts, but then you're like,
nope, I'm just entranced by her beauty.

Ben the Kahn: Look, is she terrible?

Yes.

Would I let her lock me in a wardrobe?

You fucking know it.

Emily: Depends on the wardrobe.

Sara Century: That was
the whole thing, right?

Like, it's as you said, very sturdy.

It's calling to them.

There's like a whole, like, the
wardrobe is like a character in and

of itself in this movie almost, which
I think is really cool and weird.

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like
the centerpiece for everything

that's happening in a weird way.

Emily: Yeah.

And the other thing that now that
we've sort of wrapped up the wrap up.

The interesting thing about this movie
that it starts with, like, the first,

from the get go, you have a very, you
have like a William Morris style design.

You have this, this arts and crafts
movement design and this house.

Ben the Kahn: Gorgeous looking movie.

Emily: Yeah, absolutely gorgeous.

This very beautifully designed
house is, probably been retrofitted

for this for filming because the
colors are bold and gorgeous and.

There's patterns and
all this kind of stuff.

And this wardrobe is basically
like, a, uh, art nouveau wardrobe

or like an art nouveau painted.

Wardrobe with the, or I should say
arts and crafts movement with the

same kind of William Morris style.

Stuff it's a little bit more kitschy, but
it's an interesting aspect of the movie.

I don't know what it would
be saying culturally.

I don't know if that really
matters at this point.

I But it's interesting to me that you
have this like these Western style

rooms and a Western style, like,
furniture that is I was gonna say,

Ben the Kahn: Sumi's outfit when
she gets out of the hospital, which

is like the red coat and the hat.

Oh my god, the fu Like, what
an incredible late 90s fit.

Yeah,

Jeremy Whitley: virtual insanity that hat.

It's very Jamiroquai.

Yeah, I think the two scenes in this
that really stuck with me afterwards,

because I was trying to like, put
them all together is the scene where.

The stepmother discovers the
dead bird in the sister's bed.

And I was like,

no, those, neither of
those people are real.

Like

Ben the Kahn: I said, it is a split
personality abusing a hallucination.

Cause

Jeremy Whitley: there's literally
this point where the stepmother

goes to like lean on the bed to,
I mean, she's mad at her about

something or other, but has no idea.

I'm so mad.

We

Ben the Kahn: don't get a full, like.

Fight club time showing sumi fight
clubbing herself like it just smashing

herself over the head with the statue

Jeremy Whitley: a couple of the scenes
were like sue me is not in them,

but we know that somebody was there.

Like the scene with the aunt and uncle,
there's this moment where like at the end

of that, where something happens and then
it flashes to like Sumi waking up in bed.

And we

Ben the Kahn: do later
get flashes of that scene.

And it's Sumi having dinner.

Which again, what is that scene
that it's like, look, you and me,

we're gonna have my new wife's
brother come have dinner with us.

What is that?

Emily: Was that her brother?

Jeremy Whitley: I don't know.

I was having trouble figuring out in what
way he was the uncle to these children.

If,

Emily: yeah,

Jeremy Whitley: it was,

Emily: because I'm pretty sure Sumi was
sitting there acting like, her stepmother.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah.

And the implication was that,
He was Yunju's brother, but

also, I mean, I don't know.

I mean, look, I'm not going to say you
can't have be tight with your in laws,

but I feel like if your wife's not around,
it's weird to be like, well, my brother

in law and his wife are going to come
have dinner with me at my very table.

I

Jeremy Whitley: can totally see
the actual Yunju being like, Hey,

my husband just brought back our
like crazy My crazy stuff daughter.

I don't want to go there.

You should go have dinner with them.

You just go check on them
and make sure they're okay.

Okay,

Ben the Kahn: fair.

That's fair.

Yeah.

Jeremy Whitley: She is staying away,
which I'm guessing is like A result of

the fact that, like, the last thing we
see that she did before having this,

this split is like, tell her stepmother
to go fuck herself, like, yeah,

it is unclear how much, if anything
Sumi knows about the stepmother

knowing that the being able to
save Su Yun and not doing it.

No, but she's

Ben the Kahn: definitely.

Smiling when she gets ghost shanked.

Emily: Yeah, Sumi is, is some, it's
kind of can sense that shit going down.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, the other thing
that I still keep thinking about is like,

the first scene where they're having
dinner, that's like the stepmom, the dad,

and the two girls, and the dad leaves,
and then Sumi leaves, and it's just

the two people who aren't real, they're
sitting at the table, and the stepmother

says, Shouldn't you follow your sister?

Or, your sister left,
shouldn't you follow her?

Or don't you follow her?

Or something like that.

And she, she gets up and leaves.

Ben the Kahn: Which is like, of course
we get our period on the same day.

Again, neither of you are real.

The amount of this movie that takes place
between Where both characters are not

real is both disturbing and hilarious.

Jeremy Whitley: And the
fact that, like, I don't

Ben the Kahn: The scenes are very
upsetting, but then you're like,

oh, like, this is very upsetting,
like, unflinching view of an abusive

relationship, but then on the
rewatch you're like, that isn't real.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah,
it's fascinating to me.

that like, the stuff we see with the
stepmom, she's not a good person,

but she seems Like a, you know, not a
maniacally evil person, but like the

No, she just landed a girl that crushed

Ben the Kahn: to death to
spite a different teenage girl.

Yeah.

A lot

Jeremy Whitley: of the, the bits of
her that get projected through, like,

through sue me in the early scenes
are like, Emma Frost, or Hellfire

Club, Emma Frost levels of like.

I hate you and I'm gonna
set your pony on fire.

Like, that kind of Yeah.

Emily: Yeah, no, she she is very
cartoon evil when she shows up.

Like, when the first time the
introduction introduction of

that character, which is Sumi's
projection, is like, evil stepmother.

Ben the Kahn: I forgot Emma
Frost killed that horse!

I didn't know it.

Frost Horses

Sara Century: Never forget Butter Rum.

Jeremy Whitley: Never forget Butter Rum.

. That horse burned like it
was made of Butter Rum.

Sara Century: Oh my God.

wait, I thought she does ice
stuff, does she not Emma Frost?

Yeah.

No.

Ben the Kahn: And Diamond stuff.

She does.

Oh, she ment stuff and Diamond
stuff, but she, her name's Frost

just 'cause she's a cold ass bitch.

Yeah, right.

Jeremy Whitley: We love her

.
Emily: Yeah.

Like.

Jeremy Whitley: She
definitely set a pony on fire.

Ben the Kahn: She's our
horse burning mother.

Emily: Yeah.

I am very curious about this horse
burning, but I've, I'll save that for,

like, we explain the X Men or whatever.

It's definitely

Jeremy Whitley: cross it.

It's what you get.

Miles has definitely
talked about the horse.

Ben the Kahn: Like, it's what happens when
a character that spent 20 years being a

villain then spends 25 years being a hero.

You have a lot of shit that you need
to just be like don't worry about that.

Emily: Yeah, I mean,

Ben the Kahn: don't worry about that
time you murdered Firestar's horse.

Anyway, we're off topic.

Emily: Yeah, I mean, so, the way
that these scenes play out with

the characters that are Essentially
figments of Sumi's imagination.

I, I feel like that is consistent
with, a lot of this is happening

within Sumi's imagination.

So she's, we're going
to see as the audience.

We're going to see her vision of what's
going on with all these 3 characters,

Ben the Kahn: presumably
from the dad's perspective.

Sumi just threw a dead bird into a
bed and then just started screaming.

Emily: Well, she brought the,
yeah, she brought the dead bird.

I don't know how many, because I
thought that there were two birds, but

apparently there's like several birds.

Ben the Kahn: Birds are like red shirts.

You can always kill another one.

Emily: I disagree.

Birds aren't

Ben the Kahn: real, it's fine.

Emily: I like birds.

Ben the Kahn: They're fake.

Emily: No, they're real
and they're adorable.

No, they're

Ben the Kahn: not.

It's

Jeremy Whitley: animatronic.

Ben the Kahn: I've decided to pick
one conspiracy to get really into

and it's the birds aren't real one.

I'm truther now, y'all.

Sara Century: So like, they like,
real hard went off on this movie,

Fur Color Theory, so we could
talk about that a little bit.

Oh my God, yes, yes,
yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Ben the Kahn: Please, yes.

Sara Century: I saw this before in, I was
probably early 20s or something, and to

me, I think the first time I watched it,
it was basically like, somebody took the

others and was like, hold my beer, right?

Like, good, nice twist,
the others, but guess what?

We've got 17 more to add to the formula.

I

Ben the Kahn: loved, the movie
did such a good job pacing and

laying out the twists one by one.

It did such a good job making you
feel like, you know, you were on a

foundation of smoke and shifting sand and
constantly just knocked you on your feet.

And as soon as you got back up,
it was knocking you over again.

Just such a effective and
satisfying mindfuckery experience.

Sara Century: Isn't it?

And it's, I was gonna say heartwarming,
but it's actually whatever the

opposite of heartwarming is.

Heart

Ben the Kahn: stopping, yeah.

Heart stopping, heart chilling.

Upsetting.

The level of craft and
artistry is heartwarming.

Like, it's heartwarming that such
a wonderful, that like, film,

that such a passionately made
film was allowed to be made.

It's heartwarming.

And got to be made.

The film itself, no.

Not heartwarming.

I feel bad.

Emotionally, I am worse off.

Emotionally, I am worse off
for having seen this movie.

Emily: Yeah I mean, I feel like that
the visuals do kind of soften the blow a

couple times because, you know, especially
if you're in there you can definitely,

maybe much like the dad, kind of look at
the background and be like, that's nice.

Sara Century: If you look at the
dad, he's like the character that's

always wearing gray in this, like
none of the other characters are

wearing a neutral color whatsoever.

So the dad being, everybody has in this
conversation being like, he's boring.

He does nothing.

And it's like, yeah, he's gray.

Like his whole color, like layout is gray.

And he's like the only thing in
the entire movie that is gray

colored, like everything else,
even like the house, the walls.

Wardrobe itself has that like
really vibrant, wood color.

And then you have, uh, love

Ben the Kahn: that wood color.

It's

Sara Century: like, Sumi is like, has,
uh, red and blues a lot of the time.

And so you'll see like the color palettes
kind of last from one scene to the next.

Like they'll drag through it.

Like you have like strong reds and
blues, and then it kind of goes into red

in the next scene and stuff like that.

Ben the Kahn: Remembering
correctly, you see a lot of.

Sooyeon in a lot of like
white or like cream colors,

Sara Century: the, uh, repeating patterns
behind like the wallpaper and all of this.

So she starts to blend into that.

Like, as time goes on, like,
you start to see how her dress.

is like a repeating pattern.

So she kind of starts to like seem like
she's becoming a part of like the house.

So another thing too is, is a lot of like
innocent, like inanimate objects have this

kind of ominous nature to them in this.

So it's kind of like when I was on
recently and we talked about the haunting,

it's like very much like the house itself
has like this very ominous feel to it.

So I think that like the reason that
all of us were trying to take notes and

failing is because it's just like vibes.

Vibes.

There's so much vibes all over this thing.

And that's kind of like
the best part about it.

I think, I think that that's kind of what
pushes it over into what makes it as well

known and well loved as it is, I think.

Emily: Yeah.

There's a lot of DNA that I can see that
it's like grown from other films from

things like David Lynch, from things
like ha Sue from all sorts of setup.

Oh yeah.

All over the place.

What if ha

Ben the Kahn: Sue was serious?

Yeah.

Emily: What if ha Sue wasn't wack as shit.

Like, this was God.

Ben the Kahn: I love ha u this.

Should we do ha u again?

. What can we do Another ha u episode.

Sara Century: Because there will never
be a movie like it, so you might as

well just talk about it more than once.

Emily: Yeah, but I mean, but that's
the thing is, and it's something

that I love too, when someone takes
an idea that is, borderline goofy.

And really, like, dresses it up, and
that can be disastrous in some cases,

but in this case, like, every, they,
I think they leaned in to what they

needed to lead into, and, you know,
yeah, the presentation was a little bit

disjointed, but I feel like all of it.

Altogether, it works.

Like,

Ben the Kahn: I think that Well, this
is something I feel like in general

for the genre of psychological horror
is you really can't take half measures

when it comes to psychological horror.

Emily: Yeah.

If

Ben the Kahn: you're going to
go all, like, there's no one

foot in in psychological horror.

You have to be all in.

There's no winking to the audience.

There's no being meta with it.

There's no, like, You know, wise Craig,
like if you are trying to make the

character and the viewer themselves
question reality and just feel unsettled

to their core, you, you have to commit.

Yeah.

Like this is not a, this is not a genre.

You can half-ass.

Sara Century: The sound

Ben the Kahn: effects

Sara Century: are so good.

And like, they have those scenes where
like, once again, just merging from scene

to scene because it's so dreamy, right?

Like, the whole thing is just kind
of like, you don't know what's

real and what's not, but she drops
that fish out of the refrigerator.

And then it's like a piano
chord being like crank.

Ben the Kahn: I love when, after her fight
with Yuen Zhu and, She's flashing in and

out and where the blood trail is changes.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben the Kahn: And just hammers home
just to the extreme degree that you

cannot trust what you're seeing.

Emily: And I think that the a lot of
the dreaminess, everything else is so

clear, all of the scenes are so clear.

And also the sound
effects are clear enough.

The music stains are clear enough.

It's not like a.

I mean, there's some flashing in
the dreamscapes and things like

that, but it's vague enough that
it's not giving anything away.

Ben the Kahn: It's all explainable
by fucking concussions.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah the sound effect.

The other thing I wanted to talk about
specifically with sound effect that I

think was very interesting is that, and
this is a very like specific thing that

stuck with me is that when she was walking
through the blood trail, it sounded

like she was walking through water.

Whereas other movies would
definitely give it a squelch.

Noise.

And the fact that it was this very
like, kind of disjointed sound effect,

but also less funny sound effect I
thought was a really cool choice.

Jeremy Whitley: There's a lot of things in
this movie when, which as you're watching

them, you're like, it's not quite right.

Like, you were talking about
the fish and the amount of just

fucking blood on that fish.

It's like fish aren't like that.

Like it's not like pork or
beef where there's just like.

It's fucking raw blood all over it
and I was like, when I was watching

it, I was like, what the hell, like,
what was the thought process there?

And then you're like, oh, you
go back and think about it.

You're like, oh, it's all
like, it's all hallucination

and it's all symbolic to her.

So like, Okay.

Sara Century: Creeping around like
corners and stuff through the whole thing.

Or you'll see her legs
coming down the stairs

Jeremy Whitley: slide around that door.

Ben the Kahn: It's once you
understand why fingernails.

Yeah, that's why you can't take notes
for this movie because the movie makes

you feel like a dumb dumb Because
you're being all smug and being like a

stupid movie doesn't know how fish works

Movie got me

Sara Century: Yeah, the way that so much
of it is just like a seg to the next

scene, like, they're so good at just kind
of transitioning to like the, from the

scene to the next, in a way that's kind
of discordant, but like, it works somehow.

For how disjointed it

Ben the Kahn: is, it has a
nice flow, like, It's both

disjointed and flows nicely.

Yeah.

Again, as a flashback at the
end, wild as it is, but I agree

that's the correct ending.

That's it.

Like, that you don't, like, that
you wait until the very end to

play, like, your last cards.

Emily: Well, and that's the mystery
ending, you know, like, that's the

other aspect of this is, it's a mystery.

And, you know, it's less of
a mystery as in a whodunit.

But mystery is in what the fuck?

Yeah.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah.

Emily: But the nice thing about that
flashback is that now we have that piece.

You know, it's like, we're building
around this centerpiece and then we

now, once we put that piece in there,
every, we have the whole picture.

Which is, the way that
mysteries are, paste.

So I felt like.

That was also a really good
choice and especially because we

don't have anybody who's going to
like, we don't want exposition.

We don't want anybody explaining
anything in this movie.

I mean, if we did, I don't know
if it would be as effective, but

it is um, pretty masterful the way
that it does give you all these pieces.

And yeah, maybe you're still struggling
with the end but once you think about

it, you know, it, it respects the
intelligence of the viewer, which

is one of those things that I, I
really crave in a mystery story.

Sara Century: Yeah, I like that
they don't make it all be Sumi's

mental health that's the villain
or whatever because that's what the

last scene effectively does, right?

Is to be like, okay, yeah, like, this
kid's been struggling this whole time, but

this lady killed her sister, basically.

So, I mean Yeah, you and Ju, that's

Ben the Kahn: The villain.

Sara Century: Yeah, but you don't
really know that until the very end.

And then it really does kind of put
things in perspective in another way.

It is very bleak because
it's like, no one's good.

No one comes out of this looking good.

I mean,

Ben the Kahn: I'm going to say
murder ghost did nothing wrong.

Emily: Okay.

All right.

The murder ghost is fine.

So Yen is, is innocent.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah.

But long, long dead.

Yeah.

Long dead, but, uh, the
ghost is killing it.

Yeah.

So

Sara Century: to

Ben the Kahn: speak.

We stan a murderous queen.

Sara Century: The aunt and
uncle seemed basically innocent.

Yeah.

Yeah, they just didn't want

Ben the Kahn: to be there.

They were having the most awkward moment.

Now having understand the context,
yeah, I also would want to be there.

Fucking rude.

Emily: The ant had that reaction.

And I think the reaction was to the house.

Like, I don't think she
was poisoned or anything.

It was just the reaction to the
house that she was just having.

It was such a fucked up place.

And that's where the ghost comes in.

Is that she is just, and you know, it's
also, that was like one of the most

awkward dinner scenes, like, movies have

Ben the Kahn: I like just cause it
almost sounded like a TED talk, like,

and this is where the ghosts come in!

Yeah.

Sara Century: I liked that it was just
such an uncomfortable dinner, and then

it's like, There's this eruption of
this horrible sound, like they're all

kind of screaming and it's really loud
and bright and colorful and then it

like cuts to her in the car and then
she's telling you, Oh, this is what

was actually scary about that scene.

Yeah, I thought it was scary just
because I was screaming on the floor

and all this other stuff was going on.

But whenever she's telling her husband.

They're she's in this like dark car
and like the lighting is very sparse

and like they're mostly in shadows.

And so just like, yeah, the way that
it just bounces from scene to scene.

I think that that's like what I
picked up on the rewatch of this

was just being like, Oh, it's
not just a pretty movie though.

Like, if you kind of know what's going
on, then it helps you be like, Oh,

you're telling me what's going on, but
you're doing it with like, visual cues.

I see.

Emily: Yeah, for sure.

Which is that's my jam.

It's good.

It's

Sara Century: good.

Emily: I love it.

I love it.

like being able to interact with the
movie in the particular way, being able

to interpret that you know, not being
told a story so much, but also being

allowed to interpret I, I love that shit.

Sometimes it gets a little too opaque,
you know, and I recognize that.

I love it.

I love it when it's opaque too, but
this was I felt like this kind of

all fit together and talk about it.

Yeah.

I mean, and at the end of the movie,
when you're done watching it, maybe

you don't get everything, but like,
especially now, as we're talking this

is where, as you're mentioning these
various things and I'm like, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

That was there in the beginning.

Yeah, very much like glass onion.

Sara Century: Repeating patterns like
they use the wallpaper to get us.

Yes.

These people are stuck
in repeating patterns.

It's amazing.

I really enjoyed this movie.

Emily: Yeah.

And it's, it's so reminiscent of so
many things, but it basically like

takes, I mean, it's very original
and it's, and it's execution and

everything, but like, I can see the
influence of like Lars von Trier.

Yeah.

And representing trauma and just
how fucking traumatic this is.

Like it's, and we don't need any
ghosts to represent the trauma, but the

ghosts are there just to, I feel like
for a sense of justice at this point.

Sara Century: Yeah.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah.

Yeah.

Ghosts are cathartic also.

Again, to get add tension
to add jump scares.

and some creepy bits.

And also, I think, to, a bit to throw
you off the trail, again, to make you not

sure what's ghost stuff and what's uh,
hallucination, PTSD, mental illness stuff.

So I, I think it was helpful as a
additional curveball to further just,

keep you on your toes and just make you
constantly unsure of what you're seeing.

Emily: Yeah, and honestly, at the end
of the day, what are ghosts, but trauma,

like, that's what ghosts are like,

Sara Century: what are houses, but trauma,

Emily: what are houses, but trauma, you
know, like, yeah, they'd say houses.

Remember?

Yeah, um, I'm waxing very political
here, but, like, the whole idea of

ghosts and hauntings is about that
memory, whether it is a manifestation.

Of whether it is something real
that affects a lot of people,

or it's something that is in the
mind that people kind of perceive.

Or feel just from instinct, or
from what they've heard, you know,

like, on a subconscious level.

And in a case like this, where you have.

A very traumatic event, and then
you have, like, all of these

people interacting with it.

And, you know, the person at the center
of it, whether there's a ghost or not.

Does it really matter?

The people are gonna sense
that shit's fucked up.

And,

Ben the Kahn: but also Ghost Ghost, but

Emily: also Ghosts, ghost, ghost Haunted.

Ghost.

Ghost.

Ghost.

Ghost, ghost Ghosts.

Ghosts are good.

And you know, I mean, this is, and, and in
this case it's a film and it's a fiction.

And we're using symbols
and that's awesome.

You know?

Mm-Hmm.

. It's allegorical.

But, and it's, I think that's the
other thing that, that is sticking

with us so much where we're
like, it was trauma and ghosts.

Because they compound the allegory
being like,, there is this other

thing that is affecting people
objectively, even though we're, subject

to the unreliable narrator of Sumi.

Jeremy Whitley: The wild thing about this
to me watching it and then like rethinking

it after you know what's happened in it,
is that like, I found out reading about

it that it's based on a Korean folktale,
which is much older than the movie.

And thinking about the like, this
next to all the Victorian novels we

have where, Somebody gets gets pulled
from the insane asylum and then

dropped into the house, the family's
country house in the middle of nowhere

where that's like, where they're by
themselves or with one other person.

And yeah, that's definitely
going to go well, totally.

Something horrible has happened to them.

They had a, mental episode.

They finally got to the point that
they're okay enough to go home.

And you just like.

Drop them at a secluded house in the
middle of nowhere with like Nobody to talk

to and ghosts, it turns out, uh, although
I feel like even if, even by the end of

this movie, even like finding his, second
wife's dead body upstairs, the dad's still

not gonna believe there are ghosts there.

Sara Century: Nope.

Yeah.

Like a classic useless horror dad.

Jeremy Whitley: He's so fucking useless.

He might as well be a cop.

Emily: I think.

Honestly.

How do we know he's not?

Jeremy Whitley: Do they
say what the dad's job is?

Emily: I don't remember.

Sara Century: There was a job involving

Jeremy Whitley: paperwork.

Piece of

Sara Century: shit.

Yeah.

He's a piece of shit all day long.

He does it for free.

He does it for the love, for the passion.

Emily: For the passion of being
like, just completely useless.

Ben the Kahn: Do what you love and
you'll work every day of your life for

minimal pay and maximum exploitation.

Emily: Yeah.

Honestly though, like for the
dad, if there were ghosts.

He'd probably be like, okay, that's
that, like, that would be a relief

for him because that would at least
be like some kind of explanation.

Like, he would

Ben the Kahn: definitely be like
I'll deal with the ghost tomorrow.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy Whitley: I do have to say for all
of the, like, color theory and shots that

really matter in this movie, even when
you don't know they matter, they make

a big deal out of, like, watching him,
like, Put his razor together to shave.

And I was like, somebody getting cut
with that razor and then never came back.

It was like, huh?

Emily: I mean,

Ben the Kahn: I think that was maybe just
a product placement that they had there.

Emily: There was just
like the Korean equivalent

Jeremy Whitley: of Gillette,

Emily: yeah.

Look at this old razor.

It's neat.

Ben the Kahn: Look, not everything
can be double team saving babies

from explosions using Coke machines.

Emily: I think I'm lost on the reference.

Ben the Kahn: Uh, the movie Devil Team
starring Jean Claude Van Damme and Dennis

Rodman were in the climax of the movie.

The col Not the coliseum,
just a coliseum is exploding.

But Dennis Rodman protects the
baby from being exploded because

he shields their bodies using the
power of a coke vending machine.

Sara Century: This was like my
brother's favorite movie with

Emily: Yeah,

Ben the Kahn: why would it be a fucking
rules go watch double team fucking rules

Dennis rodman is either dressed like a
jojo character or a dick tracy villain.

Those are his only two outfits.

It's great No, it is

Jeremy Whitley: one of those two things

Ben the Kahn: His only two
modes of outfits he has

like 20 outfits in the movie

Emily: Well, his name in the
film is apparently yes no notes.

That all makes sense now, like when
you said Dennis Rodman, I couldn't

remember if he had ever acted because
he was such a character already.

I'm like, was he in a movie?

Ben the Kahn: Look, he was in movies.

Has he ever acted?

That's up for debate.

Jeremy Whitley: Look, nothing, nothing
in the world is ever going to be.

Taco Bell doing product placement
in the post apocalyptic Wesley

Snipes vehicle, Demolition Man.

Ben the Kahn: Demolition Man, yeah.

Okay, but Demolition Man fucking rules
so hard, and I love the Taco Bell.

The Taco Bell was like,

Jeremy Whitley: yeah, we would
exist after the apocalypse, sure.

we're fucking Taco Bell.

Ben the Kahn: by the time this
episode comes out, I hope Waffle

House will have been announced
as an official stage in Tekken 8.

Emily: With Tekken, who knows?

The creator of Tekken

Ben the Kahn: straight up went
on Twitter and was like, Why

does everyone keep telling us
to put Waffle House in the game?

Emily: I'm sure it's already in Fortnite.

Oh, dang.

Catch up.

Catch up, Tekken.

Jeremy just dabbed.

I need to tell everyone that
Jeremy just fucking dabbed.

I feel

Ben the Kahn: like that's just Jeremy's
right as the one that is like the most

southern of us and therefore the one who
has experienced the most Waffle House.

Jeremy Whitley: I used to live across
the street from a Waffle House.

Ben the Kahn: Ah, fuck yeah.

I've never been to a Waffle House, but
I've seen street fights, so, you know.

Emily: It's the Waffle House,
Waffle House is the bonus stage.

There we go.

So yeah, is this movie feminist?

Ben the Kahn: Sure.

I mean, in that it is grounded
entirely in women characters.

women perspectives, fully fleshed out
three dimensional women characters, and

women who are allowed to be very flawed.

Emily: Yeah, there were a lot
of women's wrongs in this movie.

Ben the Kahn: I would not say this
movie is explicitly dealing with

feminist themes, but is it feminist
insofar as delivering well told

women stories with women characters?

I'd say yes.

Sara Century: The fact that the
dad is so intentionally useless, I

guess, and like all of the Oh, so

Jeremy Whitley: useless.

Sara Century: Yeah.

All of the rest of the characters are
women, including his wife who dies.

And so it really is just about the women.

The dad really doesn't have
anything to do with it.

It, it might be Ms.

Andrews, I don't know.

Jeremy Whitley: And there's,
there's two male characters.

The dad who, who's in whole function
is to suck mostly off screen.

Yeah.

And the uncle who is also there.

For a couple of scenes.

I don't, I think he might have two lines.

Emily: Yeah, I think his two
lines are, no, I don't remember.

Sara Century: Yeah, Sue me, I think
not being the scapegoat for the

movie is a little feminist, at least
because I think normally it would be.

And on the character, you know, the
female character who's suffering a

mental breakdown and like for a lot
of the movie, that's what's happening.

Like, you're just like, Oh,
it's it's all her fault.

The movie's definitely building

Jeremy Whitley: you up for that.

Sara Century: Yeah.

And by the end, just being kind of like,
turns out it's a web of complicity.

But this person is actually a huge
asshole who caused pretty much all of it.

And you're just like, okay.

Like, yeah, it is like, it's that way.

It is more about the women, but it's
not just like one teen girl, like

kind of having their shoulder, the
blame for all of these decisions

that the adults are making.

Emily: I think there's, it's like, usually

Ben the Kahn: it's like, this is a good,
terrible comparison, but it's like,

everyone in Stalin's inner circle sucks.

But then there was Laurenti Beria
who extra super duper sucked.

I

Emily: I think that the, in terms
of, like, the feminist narrative, the

commentary on the dad's inaction and his
inability to take responsibility, like, he

says he's a bad dad, that's one thing, but
he also doesn't really listen to anything.

And he also shuts her down when she
wants to talk about certain things, like

the wardrobe, and it, there's a lot,
like, in, in that context, the narrative

actually benefits from the idea that he
is just being, he is like, gaslighting

her, because you still believe her,
because you're aware that, like, even

though the dad is denying all this shit
is going on, he also is just so out of

touch that he could be just as wrong.

Right, like, or he could be exaggerating
or, speaking hyperbolically, like, she

is dead or, to that point, because at
that point in the movie, is she dead?

She's right there, right?

Sara Century: Like, sobbing.

Emily: Yeah, she's right there sobbing
and, like, denying that she is alive.

Like, in, another movie would have had.

To me, like, look over and she'd be gone,
but in this case, they committed to that.

And I think

Ben the Kahn: I mean, it took a lot of
work to establish is how much the dad

sucked for the movie to be like, yeah,
but she's just not going to believe him.

Emily: Yeah, and, but I
think it's a red block.

Yeah.

And that, that comment on that
particular aspect of masculinity and

also like the, this sort of idea that.

Oh, this, these are women
with women problems.

This is none of my business.

I'm still gonna like, stay partners
with this woman who, she was definitely

a part of, like, involved in the death
of my wife and my daughter, but I'm

going to stay with her because she's
hot or whatever, and we don't know

how much time has elapsed between.

The deaths and returning
to the, to the house.

So, that is another element
there that I think needs, the.

Should be addressed, like, or just
considered when we think about just how.

Inept the dad is

Sara Century: yeah, he's
very she'll be fine.

Yeah, she's out of the mental
institution, so we're good.

Yeah, it's hard on me.

It's actually really hard on me.

So could you come home, babe?

Emily: Yeah, like, like,
I don't know what to do.

I don't know what to do.

And, maybe listen to your daughter.

Sara Century: Yeah.

He's like, but I am not going
to ask you a single question

about what happened that day.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

And I don't know if the interview that
the movie starts with is actually before

they go back to the house or after.

What's going on there?

So, there's, there is a very big
question mark between the events

that kicked all of this off.

And the return to the house where
the present story really occurs.

But I'll kind of bringing it back
around all that is what we're saying

here is that the, uh, ineptitude of
the dad is definitely like, we're,

that is, a commentary on the struggle.

Sara Century: And sharing
the blame among the women.

It's like, yeah, it could be everyone.

It could be all of their faults, I
guess, to some extent, but except for

the kid who's like innocent who died.

Yeah.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah.

Sara Century: Yeah.

I mean,

Jeremy Whitley: the two big things that
we deal with in this, I think are the.

The aspect of, feminism to some extent.

We don't really have much to do with class
or race or queer identity in this movie.

We don't get enough information.

Yeah, we, we know they're, they're rich.

We don't really have any exposure
to the world outside of this house.

And, you know, other than
like the doctor that we meet.

I mean, I, I guess the big question
with this is like, how do we feel about

how it deals with, Mental illness.

I mean, which is pretty central to this.

Yeah.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah.

I mean, it's definitely first and
foremost a tool for atmosphere

and tone and destabilizing
the viewer sense of certainty.

It's definitely a store.

It's definitely psychosis as
story tool versus an exploration

of life with mental illness.

Emily: Yeah, the mental illness
is certainly a I mean, like,

it is also the ghost, right?

It is sort of an antagonistic force.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, although I would
say, I mean, it's certainly when you,

when you think about dissociative
identity disorder and horror movies,

like, obviously psycho is a movie that
comes up to talk about and that is like,

certainly a different and less good way
of going about it than what we have here.

The psycho is like, yes, he.

I think in that they say
that he is schizophrenic.

But he has, you know, a
dissociated identity, but like,

and that's why he kills people.

Which like, thankfully this movie
doesn't do even in as much as there

are people being killed and there is
horror involved like that the mental

disorder is a result of the horror
and the trauma, not the cause of it.

Emily: Yeah.

And I think in that way.

It, you know, isn't so vilified, right,
because her reactions are understandable,

especially within the the context of her
psychosis and what she's been through.

Jeremy Whitley: And also,
ultimately, it's like, we are

seeing this from her perspective.

We don't always understand that it's
her perspective with, you know, with the

exception of some of those final scenes
where, you know, the, the stepmom is,

is killed by the ghost she is, Sumi is
present in all of the scenes, we realize,

even if it is her talking to herself or
her believing herself to be one of the

other characters at that point, it is
not something where she is Sort of put on

display, I think the way in which the the
disorder interacts with the plot is very

much is like, We're seeing it from her
perspective as she is trying to work her

way out of this sort of horrible maze that
has been built for her of trying to figure

out what is going on and what is real.

Sara Century: And it's the
arguably sane person, right?

Who commits like the worst crimes in it.

So that was kind of nice, I guess.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, she's definitely
the, uh, the one who made his

decision that you had control of.

I mean, and also the dad, like the dad
certainly made decisions and he wasn't

like, yeah, he's a little bit sympathetic
if this was a situation that was as

convoluted as what is presented initially
with, like, all 3 women in the house.

But, the, once we know what the real
context is we know that he's made

decisions and they are bad ones.

Sara Century: Yes.

Emily: So, um, talked about
mental, yeah, not a lot about race.

Actually,

Ben the Kahn: yeah, not race.

Is there anything queer in the movie?

Only my feelings towards mean mom.

Sara Century: Yeah.

Jeremy Whitley: Only the
design sense in the outfits.

Yeah.

Emily: Yeah.

And ultimately, I'm glad that there's
not a lot of queer anything in the movie.

Yeah, any direction it could go.

It's dicey.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, I think
that pretty much covers all of it.

I mean, I guess that leaves us with the
question of like, do we recommend this?

Oh, hell yeah.

Fuck yeah.

Emily: This is a fantastic
film and deserves an Oscar.

Honestly, like, this is a gorgeous movie.

And you know, I'd watch it
more if it wasn't so upsetting.

But I'm definitely going to be showing
it to a couple of my, my buddies.

Jeremy Whitley: It's definitely a
sit down and strap in for this film.

Cause like trying to watch it while doing
anything else, uh, you're, you're going

to miss stuff and, or you're not going
to have a good, No, this is, you gotta

Ben the Kahn: focus on this one.

Sara Century: Look at the time when
this came out, 2003, this is a banger.

Like this movie rules.

I'm not going to say that the horror
market was like bad during that time.

But I am gonna say that
like this movie was rad.

Like whenever I first saw it, it like
was airing on cable or something.

It was really good to see at that time.

It is

Ben the Kahn: crazy that this came
out in 2003, given how much it feels.

of the A24 era.

Yeah,

Emily: right?

100%.

Yeah, because it has like the
crawling girl ghost, you know?

It has that shit going
on, but like, So much.

Jeremy Whitley: It's

Ben the Kahn: got so much more.

It's got so much

Emily: campy.

Yeah.

It's

Ben the Kahn: got so much more debt.

Well, we covered Ringu last week and
we talked about how like as engaging

and as the plot was and as creepy
and as effective as the horror was,

there really wasn't a lot of true
depth to it beyond the surface.

This movie.

It's fucking pathos for days.

Y'all

?
Emily: Yeah.

Sara Century: Good.

High rewatch value.

If you watch it once and you're
like, what the hell did I just see?

Almost require as a rewatch.

Yeah.

Check it out again in six months
or a year when you've forgotten

half of the details of it.

Or like, I did wait like
10 years and watch it again

and, uh, you'll have a blast.

Like I had a great time just
rewatching this being like, oh, . Yeah.

Things I didn't notice.

Whoa.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, and the director
has just continued to make great films.

I mean, you know.

Two come out last or a TV series and a
show come out last year and then I saw

the devil is consistently ranked among
like the best Korean horror films as well.

So there's definitely a
lot to check out there.

I mean, speaking of which, speaking
of a lot to check out, Sarah, did you

have anything you wanted to recommend
to people after checking this out?

Sara Century: I sure do.

I have a hell of a list of things
to watch after you watch this.

Uh, so I guess one of the ones is
Kayla Janisse did the book House of

Psychotic Women, which just talks about
women, psychosis and horror films.

That is an incredible book.

I think everybody should check
it out pretty much whenever.

And I think I probably brought it
up during the haunting conversation

too, because of course, anything
that has to do with like, The house,

it's haunted or is it psychosis?

Like that's basically the subjective
house of psychotic women, but

it's a groundbreaking work.

It's a really good book.

I would say any of the late career
Liz Taylor movies like secret Ceremony

or Ident Ident Kit, those are weird.

Who's who?

Like what am I, what is
identity kind of movies?

Good.

Goodnight.

Mommy and the Lodge are movies
that are a lot like this where you

kind of are questioning reality.

There's like a.

Weird mom figure, nobody really knows
what the kids are up to Ingmar Bergman's

persona probably would be appealing to
anybody who liked this, Belladonna of

Sadness, maybe, The Haunting, which we
talked about, I think you would like.

Um, there's an old Yallow movie
that's really underrated called

Footprints from the 70s that's just
like, Same deal, like, who am I?

What's going on?

Kind of, uh, like, I went missing
for three days, but all of these

people seem to know me now and
like all of that kind of stuff.

Yeah, all of these movies that I just
listed are basically that, like, they're

like, uh, interrogation of identity.

And I think for like the weirdness
themes, like maybe some Charles Burns

comics just to like top it all off.

Emily: That's a good list.

That's quite a list.

That's a good list.

Charles Burns, definitely.

Like, that is definitely the same kind of,

Sara Century: yeah,

Emily: mood especially at a lot of the
the more like psychological horror stuff.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah.

I would

Ben the Kahn: say for my recommendation
is The interview with the Vampire

TV show, cause the fuck else are you
gonna watch on the AMC subscription?

You got to watch this movie.

Fuckin 20 seasons of The Walking Dead.

Yep.

Sara Century: Watched Tales of
the Walking Dead and it was the

sleeper hit, in my humble opinion.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah, Tales of
the Walking Dead, Walking Dead.

Rick and Michonne do a
big date, Walking Dead.

Yeah, Daryl, Daryl and Carol.

Enjoy all the showings of AMC that
you now got to watch this movie.

Jeremy Whitley: Boy Emily, did
you have anything to recommend?

Emily: Well, I finally watched Ju On,
The Grudge, which does, yeah, has a

lot of DNA in common with this movie.

Although I don't know if it came out.

Well, there was the Yeah, I think it came
out a year, a full year before this movie.

this movie is leaps and bounds visually
ahead, but it, um, in terms of, like,

trauma, ghosts, the house remembers
it, all of that, it's definitely,

like, if you want to watch another good
influential horror movie about ghosts,

houses and ghosts that's a good one.

They're all just happy in

Jeremy Whitley: house, too, anyway.

Emily: Yeah, well, these are all

Sara Century: Another Housu ripoff.

Houses and

Jeremy Whitley: Ghosts sounds like the
HGTV Discovery Channel crossover we need.

Emily: If it was cool, yeah.

Jeremy Whitley: I would watch a
show called The House Remembers.

Yeah, The

Emily: House Remembers.

Housu is also, like, I would
never not recommend Housu.

If we brought up Housu,
go watch that shit.

It is fantastic.

It is not the same kind of
upsetting as this movie.

That movie is just wacky cartoon.

Nonsense, and it's absolutely exquisite.

Jeremy Whitley: Always
be checking out Haosu.

Sara Century: Talking to you, Gen Z.

I think Gen Z would really love Haosu.

Jeremy Whitley: Oh, Gen Z
would fucking eat up Haosu.

It's absurdist as fuck.

It's what y'all love.

Gen

Emily: Z's all over.

Yeah.

There's

Jeremy Whitley: wacky references to
stuff you don't even know exists.

It's great.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

I, yeah.

All the, I have a lot of
Gen Z people coming to me.

We're like, Oh yeah.

All of this old, like shoujo
and like old 70s stuff.

And I'm like, yes.

What would you like to know about it?

You have come to the right place.

I've been preparing for
this my entire life.

Jeremy Whitley: as for me, I'm gonna
recommend something unrelated because

as we were talking about this, it this
has come to light only a few hours

ago that, uh, we lost Trina Robbins,

Sara Century: hi.

Jeremy Whitley: She, uh, passed away.

Hi, Pete.

If you're not familiar with Trina
Robbins, she was, uh, trailblazing

cartoonist, uh, an incredible
writer and an incredible person.

If you haven't checked out her
work, there's a lot to check out,

including quite a bit of Wonder Woman.

Yep.

And just about everything else, what
I would recommend feels a little

self serving, but also I think
it's what Trina would recommend.

Trina spearheaded and edited a comic
anthology called Won't Back Down, uh,

which is a pro abortion anthology or
pro choice anthology, uh, which I,

was lucky enough to write a story in
just came out in the last couple years

and is all the proceeds from that go
to fund the cause to help people in

need and to hopefully Get things fixed
that are not fixed in this country as

it comes to the pro choice movement.

So, yeah, do yourself a favor
and check out Trina Robbins.

Do Trina a favor and go buy
a copy of Won't Back Down.

And, uh, yeah, she was great.

I had the Luck of being
able to call her a friend.

She was the sort of, old lady who
was wonderful, brilliant, and would

also tell you if you were full
of shit, which is, the greatest.

So,

Sara Century: yeah.

Wonderful interviews this person
has conducted over the years.

Highly recommend.

Jeremy Whitley: She's fantastic.

she was 85 and has decades
worth of work to go check out.

So definitely do that.

to wrap up again, uh, Sarah, can
you remind people where they can

find you online and, and, uh,
what they should be looking out

for as far as your new podcast?

Sara Century: Yes, everybody, please
just go to my website because I don't

really be on social media anymore.

So, saracentury.

com.

There's no H in Sarah or in century.

but you can just look at that
page and there will be updates.

I also have a newsletter that I highly
recommend signing up for because it

has cute anecdotes about my pets.

The whole time we were recording this
podcast I had four little rabbits

running around my feet and they're cute.

Maybe I'll do a newsletter about that.

Who knows?

Or maybe I just told you here
because this is exclusive content,

but I recommend saracentury.

com I'm nowhere else on
the internet right now.

And it is wonderful.

Jeremy Whitley: Solid decision.

Emily: Yes.

Jeremy Whitley: Speaking of, of
which Emily, can you let people

know where they can find you online?

Emily: Megamoth.

net has pretty much everything.

Megamoth on Tumblr, Blue
Sky, mega underscore moth on

Instagram, megamoth on Patreon.

It's fluttering, baby.

Jeremy Whitley: Fantastic.

Not creepy at all.

All right.

Ben, what about yourself?

Ben the Kahn: Debating if I want
to out creepy Emily on that one.

Nope.

I don't think I can pull it off.

Yes.

Find me at occasionally still
on Twitter when at Ben, the con

blue sky, Instagram at Ben con
comics, my website, Ben con comics.

com.

This I will be what is this
coming out again, Jeremy.

Jeremy Whitley: This should be
coming out at the very end of May.

Ben the Kahn: Okay, in that case, I
will have already been at TCAF, so,

but uh, my next convention will be at
FlameCon in New York, so catch me there.

Nice.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, absolutely As
for me, you can find me on Twitter and

Instagram still J five eight, but on
even Better on Blue Sky and Tumblr.

Jeremy Whitley.

My website is jeremy whitley.com.

You can obviously find me here every week.

You will also be able
to find me at Flame Con.

I'm, I'm looking forward to that one.

This is my, my first year at that show.

So, it's gonna rock.

If you're listening to this, I'm
probably already at MomoCon, so if

you're there, also see me if it's
after it comes out, then yeah, come

see me, uh, either at FlameCon or
at the American Library Association

show in San Diego this year in June.

It's going to be a good time.

All right, that wraps
it up for us tonight.

Be sure to rate and review this podcast
wherever you're listening to it.

Helps us make more.

Helps more people find it.

Thank you so much to Sarah for joining us.

Uh, and for jumping on for this one.

This was, uh, a fun movie to talk about.

Sara Century: This was fun.

I was glad to have an
excuse to watch it again.

Ben the Kahn: Yes, no, this was a treat.

Jeremy Whitley: I think we're keeping
you pretty busy for the next month.

You're on for a couple more pieces.

Yeah, I didn't

Sara Century: mean to sign
up for all of your episodes,

but I are, we are very happy

Ben the Kahn: to have you here,
so we are glad to have you aboard.

Once

Jeremy Whitley: we get into that
June pipeline of queer horror

movies, it's like, everybody
should be on every episode.

Sara Century: Certified lesbian Sarah
Century, I, the official lesbian

correspondent of at least one podcast.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, I feel like there
were several years that like when we

were trying to do stuff for Pride, we
had trouble finding lesbian horror.

There's a lot of like gay guys in
horror and now it just feels like

several of the movies we're talking
about this year have just like come

out in the last like two years.

Sara Century: Yeah,
there's been some bangers.

Damn, there's been some
good movies coming out.

Horror is killing it.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah, we're, I mean,
we're talking about, that was Sarah.

Uh, attachment, Medusa, and good manners.

Um, and then also we're going to
be following that up by talking

about Assassination Nation.

So, like, it's all it's all pretty gay.

From here on out.

It's all pretty

Sara Century: gay.

It seems to always get a little bit
gayer when I show up to something.

I'm not sure why.

I can't quite put my finger on it.

Jeremy Whitley: Just that queer aura.

Yeah.

I mean, next week we'll be, next week
we'll be finishing up our May run

talking about audition, which isn't
gay, but is supported by the gays.

I feel like

we'll be, we will be there to support it.

Yeah.

Emily, Ben, have you
guys seen Audition yet?

Emily: Not yet.

No!

Jeremy Whitley: Okay, alright.

I have seen Audition.

I'm

Emily: holding on to my butt.

This one is gonna Yep, this one.

Jeremy Whitley: 1999.

It's an interesting one.

Ben the Kahn: Oh, okay.

We're doing our first Takashi Miike film.

Oh, consider my butts held on to.

It's

Jeremy Whitley: also, this is a movie
that the first time I watched it,

I was like, I don't think this is
a horror movie until it fucking is.

And

Sara Century: then it fucking is.

Yeah.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah.

Like, Oh,

Sara Century: this is kind
of like a sad guy rom com.

And then you're like, Nope.

No.

Jeremy Whitley: Yeah.

So come back.

And then, uh, let's do a talk
about audition next week.

And then we're going to have a
whole run of great movies to talk

about throughout June as we, we
have our pride month celebration.

Uh, and until next time stay horrified.