Emily: Now that I finally have turned my
maglite on my etching and I'm like, oh

my god, everything is so much easier now.

That's the wrong tool.

I also have my trusty recap right here.

Jeremy: All right.

Well, you guys want to
go ahead and jump in?

Emily: rock and roll.

Ben: yes, let's fuckin do this one.

I,

Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
progressively horrified the podcast

where we hold order to progressive
standards It never agreed to

We're finally breaking the seal.

We've done 190 episodes without
talking about Takashi Miike.

And tonight we're diving in the deep end.

I hope you've brought your lines because
tonight it's time for our audition.

I am your host, Jeremy Whitley.

And with me tonight, I have a
panelist in the files and Cenobites.

First, they're here to challenge the
sexy werewolf, sexy vampire binary.

My co host, Ben Kahn.

Ben, how are you tonight?

Ben: uh, I get why Eli Roth says
this movie's an inspiration.

That checks out.

Jeremy: Yeah, um, makes sense.

And the Cinnamon Roll of Cenobites,
our co host, Emily Martin.

How are you tonight, Emily?

Emily: I mean, this movie compared to
other Miike installments pretty tame.

Jay: heh

Ben: it really condenses it.

You get a really long stretch of not
rough at all, and then you get a real

stretch of every minute is a battle.

Emily: Oh, yeah.

I feel like having it rough
from the get go is better than,

like, false sense of security.

Maybe the dog will survive.

does

Jeremy: And

Ben: man, I had a bad day y'all
today, and a dead dog was kind of

the last thing I needed on my screen.

But, you know, Miike go Miike!

Jeremy: Our guest screenwriter
and educator, Jay Joseph Jr.

Jay, welcome back!

Jay: Hey, thank you for having me back.

How's it going?

Jeremy: Oh, doing good!

So, uh, you were absolutely thrilled
about jumping in on this one.

You were like, Let me, let
me get in there and then talk

about audition with you guys.

What was it about audition that
made you want to jump in here?

Jay: you know, think it's the first
time I was ever exposed to Miike and

then I became a little bit of a fan, I
think it's interesting because it's

sort of weird way it goes hand in hand
with, I feel, One Cut of the Dead,

but I feel like This one really looks
at, like, the darker and scummier

side of, filmmaking, especially with
Japan's industry approach to it.

It has some very, like, complex
thoughts on it, in terms of, its

subject matter, and I'm trying to
think of the best way to put this.

I'm wondering

Ben: It's a dirty

Jay: uh,

Ben: Like, it's an aesthetically
dirty, feeling movie.

If you are indoors, somebody
will be smoking a cigarette.

Jay: Looking at it from kind of
like the social perspective, right?

there's a few films out there
that you watch them and you're

like, did I just watch something?

I'm not quite sure if it's like
very misogynist or if it's very

feminist or both at the same time,
so that's what I wanted to get into

Ben: I'm gonna go on a limb and think I
actually think this movie is feminist.

Emily: I

too.

Ben: it very much depicts wildly
misogynist things, but the way

it's handled in the movie I feel
is, such a stark portrayal and

condemnation of it that I think the
movie overall is a feminist work.

Jeremy: It's really
fascinating in a lot of ways.

I mean, the, the most fascinating
being how much of it I think

could pass for an eighties rom com

like in the U S yeah.

I mean, particularly like.

the whole setup of it, of him setting up
this audition with his, friends, so that

he can meet somebody to marry, is wild.

And it feels like it could have
been, the topic of a, you know,

a movie where the third act is
just them finding out about this.

you add that to like these long shots of
like them walking through the city that

really reminded me of like when Harry
met Sally, like the way, you know, Rob

Reiner would shoot them from like a long
distance, just having a conversation

as they walk through New York.

Jay: yeah.

Ben: honestly, God, this movie is
like if You Got Mail and ended with

Meg Ryan saying, eat the rich and
then slitting Tom Hanks's throat.

Jay: it's nowhere close to his first
film, but it's like one of his earlier

films, and considering where his work
goes after this, I feel like, first

of all, he gets a lot more interest,
I think, in like action and over the

top kind of stuff after this film.

But this one, is very kind of slow,
not in a bad way, but it's kind of

thoughtful, you know, really kind of
lays out the romance, the chemistry

between the two leads, and then you
get this insane final act that I think

is, just a tiny bit of a window into
like his future work as a filmmaker.

Jeremy: And I think it's interesting
that even during that romance section in

the second act, you get these like, cuts
where like, it looks like you're switching

sides of the table, but suddenly you
realize you're in a different restaurant

than you were previously with, or like
suddenly the restaurant is empty, or.

You know, you're, going at
things from a different direction

and it's just this like, these

little bits of unnerving
in the background.

Jay: Yeah.

Ben: keeps you unmoored, is what it does.

Jay: it does.

I don't quite think it plays with the
unreliable narrator stroke, but you

know, when you get to the end and you
kind of see the I guess the kind of,

flashbacks or dream sequences that the
lead character starts to have, while he's

being tortured, it really recalls that.

editing that we got early on that
I think early on it was supposed to

symbolize to us that this is a series
dates or maybe we're getting like their

relationship in a condensed amount of
time, but then I feel like that final

act changes the context a bit and it's
like, okay, well, well, how much of

that was the actual kind of, romance,
how much that was like in the real time

and how much of it was him reminiscing
and how much of it was You know, was

even real or some of this in his head.

I think it leaves you with questions for

that,

Ben: this is gonna sound strange,
but I feel like this movie is

almost of of pairing with American
Beauty, in that they are both about

exploring, mainstream, middle aged
masculinity and ennui in the late 90s.

I felt like the sense of like, this
movie is about the lost decade was

almost palpable, that this movie is
coming from guys who like, who felt

like they just missed the last train.

And unlike generations who couldn't even
see, who like, don't even recall a time

when the trains were running, these guys
watched the last train leave the station.

Jay: she's quite young compared to
him to like 24 or something like

Ben: Yes, they, they say 24, yeah.

Jeremy: there's these, um, long moments
in, in really the first act of the film

where you're seeing like, the sort of
isolation of these, two guys of, you

know, him and his, buddy, who's the
producer, they live in this sort of

world of men where, you know, they, they
don't really associate with women much.

Like the one conversation that
he has with the woman who works

for him seems like isolated.

It seems like he has no
idea how to relate to her.

Um, and you know, the two of them
sort of sitting at the bar and staring

at the girls from a distance and his
buddy being like, ah, women today.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: fascinating to me.

Jay: just before we get there,
especially, you know, when he's

sitting in the, bar with his son
I'm sorry, it's sitting at, dinner

with his son, they're eating the sea

Ben: I love that he had, him and
his son had a good relationship.

Like, when the movie
began with like, dead mom.

I'm like, okay, nine movies out of 10.

Now the dad and the son are going
to be distant and have trauma.

But like the next scene,
the son's grown up and like,

they're going fishing together.

Like they have such a wholesome
relationship, the dad and the son.

Jay: that's true.

so to relate that point back to what
we're saying about kind of masculinity

and all that, I think what's very
interesting is that after they finish

eating dinner, uh, you know, the son
heads out to what he's going to do.

He says, by the way, dad,
it's your turn to do dishes.

And then we, linger a
long time on the dad.

I feel like, in the year 2024, that
doesn't have a lot of context for

audiences, especially kind of like Western
audiences, where if you're in a younger

generation, you're, you know, a lot more
used to kind of like being alone and

handling your own chores or splitting them
with roommates or whatever it is, right?

But I think for the
time period it was made.

with a generation that it features, right?

this is more of a scene of, here they
are, exchanging the woman's work, right?

Here they are, doing what the mom
in the household would typically do.

And I feel pretty confident in saying
that's what that scene is supposed

to be about, because literally, right

Ben: you're totally right.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Jay: yeah, right before the scene,
they're eating that sea bream, and

they have this conversation, like, Oh,
did you know all sea breams are born?

males.

they, change their biology
later on and some of them become

like females and all that.

So, that's a really interesting sequence,
I think, to get across that, here's

the man doing a woman's work and then
that, context, increasingly makes

more sense as they go into like the

actual audition portion.

Ben: I feel like all the dynamics
of the relationship make sense.

And like, a feudal or a medieval
way, where it's like, Bye Joe!

Like, it's like, look, this man
has his own television castle.

He's in need of a lady of
the house to help manage his

affairs and pick up his spirits.

Emily: there's that line when they
talk about the sea bream and he's

like, so which one is this one?

And the son is like, we got
the fish, we saw its ovaries.

And he's like, I don't know
anything about ovaries.

Jay: Yeah,

Emily: and that was one that I
was like, put a pin in there.

Ben: That was one of those, I'm like,
damn, dude, I'm like, fucking gun to my

head, you couldn't get me to admit that.

Emily: and then the fact that there was
another line in there that was about

like a man who needs a woman's support

you know, especially at this
age, he seemed exhausted and

he

needed a woman

to make him feel younger again.

Ben: Yeah, the son tells
him he looks worn down.

Emily: yeah.

Jeremy: thread of like the son being
like, you look tired, I think you need

a wife, to him being like, my son says
I look tired and I should get a wife,

and that being his entire motivating
factor for it, is hilarious to me.

Um, but like,

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Also, there's just a, it's
interesting to me that I think like,

I mean, we'll talk about it in the
actual recap, but like his relationship

with his son ends up ultimately
being his salvation in this movie.

And I think.

That is not unintentional, and that
you know, he is a guy who is alone,

who has a troubled relationship
with how he interacts with women,

and he has one terrible friend.

but you know, he is, he is a good
dad, and he has, taken care of his

son, and, that is like, redeeming
quality that he has that these other

two guys that we know she has murdered
do not have and ends up being, you

know, the thing that saves his life.

Ben: when he's with friend, the scumminess
of their plotting together, is so casual

that I think the movie lulls you into
this false sense of it doesn't know

how fucked up what they're doing is.

That it then really hits you extra
hard over the head when they go

like, No, we realized exactly
how fucked up what they did was.

Emily: I think that's where the
unreliable narrator kind of comes in.

It's the movie is the unreliable
narrator here, where the

Ben: movie plays a trick on you.

Emily: yeah, the movie is, tricking you
into thinking that it's this kind of movie

when it's actually that kind of movie.

Ben: The movie is kind of
hard candying the audience a

Emily: Yeah, I mean, Hard Candy was
gonna be one of my recommendations,

but, uh, I mean, Hard Candy is a little
bit easier to track at the very get go

with the whole, like, pedophile thing.

Ben: If you're the kind of person where
hard candy is like your background

viewing, then I would say, I don't
want to know you, and you scare me.

Emily: I mean, I'll hang out with you, as
long as we can talk about multiple things,

other than how fucked up the world is,

Jeremy: I mean, I'm pretty sure that's
what Asami watches when she's on her own.

Ben: Again, hard candy,

great movie.

I'm just scared of the person that's
like, oh this is just my comfort

show, I I'm cooking a chicken piccata,
let me just put on hard candy in the

background, have some comfort viewing on.

I know that person exists and
I don't want to meet them.

Jay: Before we go off, I'm interested
more in this idea about the film itself

as an unreliable narrator, kind of.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: It literally tries to trick you
with an, uh, It was all a dream twist.

Jay: that's

Ben: it does it so effectively that,
again, Me, honestly, I went in blind.

All I knew was that, at some point,
The fucked upness would begin.

And then it did.

I got to the point where I'm like, Well
shit, I don't know, maybe it is a dream.

Emily: yeah, at that
point, you really couldn't

know what was going on.

Ben: Yeah,

Jay: Right, because it's so
kind of like down to earth,

sort of, before that, I guess.

Emily: yeah, yeah, and that's why I think
it's an unreliable narrator, because

this movie starts with this conceit.

Jay: Hmm.

Emily: but it's also, that's the kind of
movie that that person would make, right?

And Like that guy would make, yeah,
would make that kind of movie about

his, you know, meet cute audition

Jay: Ah, interesting.

Okay.

Ben: what I mostly knew about Takashi
Miike before going into this film was

that there is a shitload of references
to his work in the No More Heroes series.

And anybody who's such an influential
figure on a series as fucked up as

No More Heroes I was probably, you
know, strapping myself in for a ride.

Jay: You know, uh, yeah, it's interesting
because No More Heroes, which I love,

I, you know, it has a lot of the

Ben: Oh, love, love, love,
love, love that trilogy.

Jay: It has a lot of, uh, some of the
same traits, I think, not just of his

kind of, like, action films, but his,
commentary on society and all that, like,

Travis Touchdown a virgin, initially,
you know, obsessed with kinda like,

having sex, but he has a weird moral
code where he'll never hurt a woman,

where that, you know, really comes in
to kinda screw him over in a way, right?

uh, there's a villain in the game.

dark Star or something like that,
and you find out he's actually

a, she, which is his sister and
has a bit of a comedic twist.

she tells you her backstory and
the game fast forwards through

it because it's too hardcore.

This is something that came out
originally on like the Nintendo and,

Back then, they were still playing
the kind of family friendly angle.

She rushes through her story, you
can't hear it, Travis is like, Whoa,

this is super fucked up, right?

but if you take that scene and you
slow it down and you play it in

slo mo, you can hear her story.

And it's basically the same kind
of shit that goes on in auditions.

She's like, first of all,
your father Travis is my dad.

He abused me when I was a child.

He did this and that.

I went back and I, murdered him.

And it's really, really crazy.

but the interesting thing about it is,
for everything that No More Heroes kind of

like touches on, that's a bit out there.

And that's a bit fucked up and all that.

I think there's this strong undertone
that, the director, Suda51, Still

really believes in supporting, these
humanist issues and all that, right?

you know, I mean, the co star of
No More Heroes for a Japanese video

game is a teenage black woman.

So, very interesting game.

Ben: Oh yeah, if you've never
played No More that's my

recommendation, is No More Heroes.

Jay: yeah, No More Heroes
1 and 2, I haven't played 3

yet, but those two are great.

Ben: It's cool, I really like three.

I like that it brings back the open
world elements, but I feel like one

They're all good, but I feel like
one was the one where everything

was just firing on all cylinders.

Jay: Yeah, it's a really
strong standalone story.

Um, and a great game in general,

Ben: Uh, one of the best.

One of my all time classics.

Jay: to get back to the
audition, I was saying, you know,

Ben: It's only a semi tangent, it's
work directly inspired by this.

It's not not a tangent, but
it's not a full tangent.

Jay: Well, reason I find the,
unreliable narrator perspective

about the film is interesting because
when I watched it, right, I did have

an idea of what I was going into.

I was like, you know, I've always been
like a big horror nerd and all that,

and people were like, Oh, you gotta
watch addition and all that, so I never

had the chance for it to lull me into
that like false sense of security.

I didn't see it, where it premiered
at like Ken's or anything like that,

you know, I kind of always knew that
something fucked up was going to happen.

It is great in that, this is before a lot
of the stuff that I think has desensitized

audiences to these kinds of films.

You know, it was before Saw,
you know, it was before The

Purge, all that other stuff.

I think it was before Human Centipede
too, which is like, you know, yeah.

but I knew it was horror going in,

Ben: I really feel like this really
kicked off the torture porn genre.

I mean, Eli Roth has said
this directly inspired

Jay: yeah.

Eli is directing inspired by it.

I think Eli Roth missed what
made the film so good that

,
Ben: I would love to see Eli Roth do even
two thirds of the rom com like this does.

I

Jay: I feel like he tries and like
hostile but then gives up very quickly,

Jeremy: yeah.

Jay: But the point is I think what
caught me there was it felt like the

exact kind of Corrupt kind of scheme, a
less than professional film studio would

kind of come up with, to find this guy
a potential wife and all that, right?

without saying any names, I actually new
film students who use the actual audition

process as more of a dating process.

They do not keep it professional
and all that, right?

so it is a, it is a thing that, happens.

There's like a type of underlying
corruption, like in the film

industry, especially back when this
film was made, where, the idea of

the casting couch, was very real.

And, that's what Audition's harping
in on, and so I saw that, and I was

definitely uncomfortable throughout
the film, just by that alone.

I'm like, well, you found her under
dishonest circumstances, and you

revealed the truth to her, and, she it,

Ben: like how at first the guy's
like, Nah, it's not totally fraught,

I don't know, the script's pretty
good, maybe we'll make the movie.

And then he's like, Eh, nah,
we're not making no fucking movie.

Jay: Yeah, it felt like I
was waiting for that come up.

It's the entire time I was
watching it due to that

Ben: I mean, that is the thing.

I mean, I do like how we
get all those interviews.

Like, we did get to see, like, Not
even in a romantic sense, like, we, he

took 30 women, truly stoked their hopes
for creative fulfillment, celebrity,

you know, a new, better life, and it
was all a lie so he could weed them

out for his own sexual gratification.

It's deeply fucked, and the movie plays
it so Lightly and playfully that, again,

this is why I do call it feminist is when
the movie finally overplays its hand and

was like, no, this was so fucking fucked.

Jeremy: Yeah, I think that it plays
interestingly into, like, I'm fascinated,

like Tia was saying, the idea of this
film as sort of an unreliable narrator

because I do think we get a lot of stuff
directly from Shigaharu's point of view,

where, like, he is clearly editing, and
we'll, we will see that later in the

movie, that he is sort of editing his
idea of what he's doing, because, we see

certain bits from their conversations at
dinner, we don't see other bits that then

come in later, we see this character at
the office who, we see as his obsessed

secretary, And we learn later that, oh,
he had sex with her and then just bailed

and never said anything to her about it.

he's editing the way that,
like, he's viewing this story.

This is sort of, like, his version
of it up till the point that, like,

literally the point where he gets
knocked out and we get all these,

like, this train of flashbacks.

Which is a little hard to tell what's
real and what's not, but I feel

like that whole chain right there is
all like telling bits of her story

and the bits of his story that are
missing and chaining it all together.

Ben: it kind of reminds
me of, uh, Shudder,

Jeremy: yeah,

Ben: the way it intentionally
withholds what you know about its

protagonist and his relationship
to the characters around him.

Jeremy: it's also really depicting
him in the auditions as like, oh,

he's the guy who's not talking.

He's hesitant and he's holding back.

And, his buddy, uh, Yoshikawa is
doing all of this, this stuff that is.

Damn sketchy.

He's like, take off your top.

Do you, what do you think about sex work?

Do you like to have sex?

And

Ben: Yoshikawa has so
many, has so many lines.

Like, God, in that audition where he says,
on, essentially says, unhappy girls make

for better actresses, and I don't even
know how to begin unpacking that one.

there is one line that's so scummy, but
it's delivered so fucking funny, is when

One of the girls goes to the act for the
audition says my agent specializes in

porn and he turns to an assistant and
says We'll use her in a different part

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Ben: So scummy, I laughed.

I laughed really hard.

I'll give this for Yoshikawa.

At every turn, like, he is hearing
Aoyama, like, describe Asami and

these dates they're going on.

And at every single fucking turn,
Yoshikawa's response is, Damn bro,

she sounds like a red flag factory.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: yeah, I mean that he's and
it's interesting because I think that

goes with the editing and that like
Yoshikawa is projected throughout

the story as like unreasonably
skeptical right like he's like really

digging into this stuff that he has
no reason to be digging into, right?

Like, it's weird that he's checking up
on her, contact at the record label.

It's weird that he, you know,
is looking into all this stuff.

But like, we find out that, he is
absolutely correct in his suspicions.

He, that still doesn't stop him from
being an absolute asshole, though.

Ben: Yeah,

Emily: so should I, should I go into

Ben: Yes.

Let's get a recap going, Emily.

Emily: all right, cool,
cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

Now, I just, I mean, this is done, this
is taught off the press right here,

so, yeah, I mean, we've talked about,
it's directed by Takashi Miike, uh, the

screenplay is by Daisuke Tengan based
on a novel of the same name by Ryo

Murakami, starring Ryo Ishibashi, Eihi
Jun Kunimura as our main characters.

And we start with the death of Ryoko.

Shigeharu Aoyama is, uh, loses

Ben: Well, the real star of that
scene is Ayama's young person wig.

That hair he has in that
hospital scene is fucking wild.

Emily: His hair is great.

Also, whatever, uh, Shigahiko made
for his mom, like, I don't, like,

he made her a diorama of Hawaii?

I don't know.

It was like, there was a volcano.

Ben: I'm not sure.

Jeremy: That was for school.

It has a ribbon on it.

He won

first place.

Ben: if you, haven't seen it,
I need to paint you a picture.

This is an actor who is, like, how
old would he have been at this point?

He is, okay, yes, he's very much in
his, like, mid, like, late 40s at

this point, and has been smoking for
like 30 of those, like, 35 of those

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

Ben: they just have him
in, like, a J pop star wig.

Emily: He's gotta be cool.

He's gotta look cool.

It's Visual Kei.

Ben: he is, his wife is dying, and I am
just losing my mind because of the wig.

Emily: Yeah.

But this scene ends quickly because the
real story hap starts seven years later.

He's looking to shi Aama looking to
remarry and, uh, his son Shiko is giving

his blessing and, they discuss it over
the fish that we mentioned earlier.

So, who I will now Heather
refer to as Aama, he.

is a film producer and works with his
friend Yoshikawa, who's also his wingman,

Ben: It's not confirmed that he
knows James Woods from Videodrome,

but it is implied by me.

Emily: Okay, yeah, I mean, there's,
there's given a lot of James Woods

character from Videodrome and James
Woods in real life colleague energy.

Aoyama is, considering remarrying and,
uh, Yoshikawa suggests that he should

hold an audition for a new partner,
disguising it as a TV show casting call.

Sounds legit.

It doesn't.

And Yoshikawa works fast.

Giving, uh, Aoyama one weekend to
choose 30 girls after, uh, out of

precisely 8 million fortunately,

Ben: And Yoshikawa, he's
so practiced at this.

You know he's pulled this shit before.

Emily: yeah, yeah, yeah, because
he has fucking precisely 8 million

resumes, CVs to share with Aoyama.

But fortunately, Aoyama's
coffee has chosen for him.

He still does the audition.

Also his son is a player and he's got a
sweet, he's into dinosaurs and, girls only

want one thing, starts with a P, ends with
an S, that's right, it's Parasaurolophus.

Ben: love that the son is
just really into dinosaurs.

Emily: yeah, he's into
biology, he's into dinosaurs,

Jeremy: I love that he finds a girl
who's also, like, fucking dinosaurs.

Ben: rizzes up this girl
with dinosaur knowledge.

This kid's fucking cool as shit.

I'm so happy he, like,
he lives throughout this

Jeremy: These two are gonna play so
much Sonic the Hedgehog together.

Emily: and bless him,
bless him all the way to

Ben: I'm not sure what Asami's
perfume plan was, but I'm glad

it didn't work because he's cool.

Emily: Yeah,

Jeremy: They're gonna look at

trains.

Emily: the audition starts
to begin to commence.

Aoyama says he feels like a
criminal and then they laugh it off.

And despite the coffee, he still
decides to interview 30 ladies and

they're subject to all sorts of
invasive questions and requests.

Probably typical for
this sort of thing, but

Ben: Nobody fucking reads a script.

Nobody performs a fucking monologue.

Emily: there is no script.

There is a, uh, like a radio casting
call that is like public, you know?

And

Jeremy: like they're casting
for Sailor Moon, like,

Emily: it's like you're

Ben: We, we get boobs.

One girl just straight
up takes her clothes off.

Emily: Yeah, and we don't know

how

Jeremy: of, of of Yamaza, or what's his

name?

Yoshikawa.

Yeah,

Emily: they, they look at the girl in
their underwear, they look at girls, they

ask these girls all sorts of questions
about their families, and how much sex

they've had, and if they are into sex,
and if sex is a thing, and sex, sex, sex.

Really cool things to ask at an
audition where there's no script.

Jeremy: But Ayama is only really
interested in the truly gothy questions.

like, he is into this,
girl's very goth essay

about the, passing nature of life.

Ben: like, tell me, tell me more
about what you learned from death.

Emily: Well, that's because
the coffee spilled on it.

Ben: like, I liked how

you described your life's
dreams shattering around you.

Tell me more about that.

Emily: Yeah, but like, again, his coffee
spilled on that particular resume.

Who knows how many goth resumes
he looked over because he couldn't

fit like 8 million, but he
chose this one and so it goes.

So, um, enter Asami Yamazaki.

She is the one chosen by the coffee.

She is clad in a virginal white
and continues to interest Aoyama.

And Yoshikawa, however, senses a red
flag or seven, but courtship commences.

Yoshikawa advises caution.

Do we need to talk about Asami or Aoyama's
fundamental misunderstanding of golf?

Either way, there's a lot of fundamental
misunderstandings going on there.

Yeah, actually,

we

Ben: did we see Asami?

Yeah, did we see, I think we see Asami's
apartment at this point, I think.

Emily: yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, we
need, we do need to talk about Asami

and her taste in interior decorating.

Because she has cool moving furniture that
looks a lot like a beanbag with a guy in

it, or maybe just a bag with a guy in it.

Anyway, let's not worry about

Ben: Look, three out of five couples
that go to Ikea do wind up like

them at, like, the end of audition.

Emily: I

haven't

ever been to an Ikea.

Jay: Yeah, I can explain it.

I I can explain that sack pretty well.

My dad used to have a habit of
buying vegetables and overcooking

them and keeping them in the sack.

One time he did that with onions, and,
there was growth in there, you know?

He could've planted them in a field and we
would've been set, so, I think that's it.

I think it's just a sack with
some old vegetables and it's

Emily: Oh, the one in her apartment?

Yeah.

Ben: That's what I'm saying, you go to
Ikea, you order the, like, the weird

sounding, like, Swedish sack, and they
never give you enough parts to finish

putting your moving sack together.

You

Jeremy: It's called Man, Mansak.

Emily: Mm.

but we're not gonna worry
about that because now Ayama's

finally called her back,

Ben: Yeah, Aoyama's not worried
about it, so neither will

Emily: Well, he doesn't know about it yet.

He calls her back finally.

He's, been, jonesing to see her again.

And so they go on a date and Ayama
admits the quote unquote film for

which Asami quote unquote auditioned.

Is quote unquote postponed
indefinitely, and Asami takes

it quote unquote pretty well.

There is no mention that this
audition was never real to begin with.

It was just like, you know, yeah, I
mean, but contextually, we'll find

out how much she really does know.

So after a very small amount of
deliberation, or a very truncated

amount of deliberation Aoyama decides
to propose to Asami over their weekend

trip to Greece or Italy or somewhere
filmed there that wants to be there.

Asami does a totally normal seduction.

It actually is kind of sweet at first,
but that could be the piano talking.

In fact, I think it is the piano
talking because the next morning she's

Ben: Okay, I do love this scene
where she is just full on stripping

naked and he just keeps going
like, Well, we could probably make

it to the art gallery in time.

Emily: Yeah,

Ben: He has learned nothing from his son.

Emily: no, and he's also like
definitely Just talking around the

thing like he is so preoccupied talking
around thing and she knows what the

thing is and The next morning she
goes some with the white sheets and

Ben: Well, she, well, there's an
important part where she makes

him swear to love only her.

And if you, the audience, are
going, Wait, but doesn't he have

a son and a dog and a deceased

Jay: Don't spoil it.

Yeah, it's fine.

Yeah.

Emily: Assume that she means I would
like to you to devote yourself to me.

Oh, how

Ben: yes, a normal person would,
but we're in a Takashi Miike film.

Why would you assume the
normal interpretation?

Emily: I mean, that's a good question.

Aoyama sets off on his search for Asami
despite Yoshikawa's continued words of

warning which has included some weird
information he's dug up about her.

One of her references
is apparently missing.

No big D.

yeah, that's fine.

So, they continue to, or
Aoyama continues to use, CV.

Ben: I love the scene where
he asks her to explain that.

And he's just like, Hey, we couldn't
find that director you said is

like, essentially your agent.

And she just goes, Oh,
that's cause I lied.

And he goes, Oh, well, I'm glad there
was a perfectly logical explanation.

Emily: yeah, because he's like,
well, I'm lying this whole time.

So like, she lied just a little bit,

Ben: Uh, the way, oh god, the way
she just like, Puffs him up, And

he's too just horny and oblivious.

To realize like there's a scene later on
where he's just like so what you think?

I was just like an old man taken
in by like I was like a young

woman Whispering sweet nothings and
then taking like her fancy meals

and the French is like yeah, man

Emily: yeah, this is when, yeah,

Ben: I guess is a thing slash trope
because I know I've seen it appear in

other stories most notably odd taxi

Emily: yeah, so you have, Yoshikawa's
trying to look out for his buddy, but,

you know, also in the context of, like,
the worst form of guys being dudes.

and then Ayama, of course, gets
angry and he's like, you don't

know me, you're not my dad.

So, yeah.

And so that's when he goes on the next
step of Asami's search using Asami's

CV to track down her old ballet studio.

Oh, what's this?

It's apparently the set of Suspiria.

The ballet studio is decrepit as
fuck, and he finds in the corner on

the piano a crazy old pervert dance
teacher who used to assault Asami.

He scares the shit out of everybody,
including us, revealing that he

is the source of her leg scars.

Jeremy: scene is anime as shit.

Emily: It's a pretty, like, I mean,
this dude is like on a piano in the

corner of his dilapidated ballet studio
and then he turns around and he's

like, Do you, have you seen Asami?

Jeremy: pretty sure I saw this in
part of Final Fantasy 7 at some

Ben: yeah, just the, full on,
on camera, child abuse, just,

Jeremy: Well, and That this

Emily: part is not in Final Fantasy VII.

I want to be very, very clear.

Ben: They would've been teenagers
by the time they got abused.

Jeremy: no, this guy goes from like,

guy creepily playing piano in the
corner, to like, he turns and he's

like, oh, he's in a wheelchair.

Oh, he has boards nailed to his feet.

Ben: When he was taking, well, no, not
even that, boards, was it boards under his

feet, or was that he was wearing, like,
prosthetic legs wrapped in human skin?

Emily: Who knows?

I thought it was, thought it, was

like his feet were
forever glued to boards.

Ben: I thought it was, like, Like, a
peg leg wrapped around, with like, human

foot skin wrapped around a peg leg.

Emily: Either way.

Ben: Audience, go with whatever
freaks you the fuck out more.

That's what's canon.

Emily: Imagine the grossest
thing, it's probably that.

Ben: This is not an important
detail at all, but was he taking her

out to like, a French restaurant?

Because I noticed that everyone there
was eating with a fork and knife.

Emily: It was definitely a West quote
unquote Western style restaurant because

there was a bunch of different Western
style restaurants that they went to with

wine and food that was in bowls that are

Ben: That feels like well off, that feels
like some well off Japanese businessman

trying to impress a younger woman.

You're

Emily: was literally whining and dining

her.

So, yeah, the crazy
dance teacher he's scary.

And he, we see some flashbacks with him.

And either way, Aoyama's
like, well, fuck that noise.

And so he's like, I guess she's not there.

And then he finds the next stop
on Asami search, which is the

old, uh, bar, the Stonefish.

Oh, no, it's closed.

It's down, like, five sets of stairs,
which is not uncommon in, dense

cities in, uh, Japan, where you
have, like, your, like, third level

basement floor with ceilings that
are much too low for me to stand in.

This is, I have never encountered the
stonefish, nor do I want to, because

The owner was murdered and chopped into
little pieces and she was chopped so hard

that there were extra body parts there.

Ben: Oh, I love this random passerby
who knows, like, every fucking

detail about this murder case.

Emily: Yeah, well, I was like,
so what's so what happened?

Oh, you know, just like it's he's
the NPC that you know You you know,

you have to go to one more time and
you turn to him and go to him one

more time And then he's like, oh,
yeah, and she was murdered grizzly.

She had him.

She was grizzly murdered Murdered

Ben: well, it reminded me of the
joke in Futurama where they have

the bank security camera testify,
and, uh, he has the line, Well, my

memory's a little hazy, but I believe
it went something exactly like this.

Emily: Yeah he was good.

Ben: Futurama's funny.

That's also my recommendation.

If you like Takashi Miike,
Futurama's not similar.

Emily: Um, most of the time.

Ben: Most of the time.

That'd be, the B episode's
pretty fucked up.

Emily: yeah, that was fucked up and
Ayama sees, like, he hallucinates

what that must have looked like and
it's gross for everyone including you.

But meanwhile The monster from Evil
Dead has apparently snuck into Aoyama's

house and drugged his liquor, causing
him to trip balls about Asami's

abusive history and how she has a
pet guy in a bag whom she feeds her

own vomit, and also she killed her
dance teacher with a piano wire.

Get it?

Because he was playing piano.

also she killed their adorable beagle,
Gengu, and that dog didn't do anything.

How dare you?

You know, I'm all

about Punishing the
wicked dudes who prey on

women.

Yes,

Ben: can handle most gore, but like,
gross out stuff, honestly, like, Like,

all the violence I was good with, puking
into a bowl that a man then ate from,

made me pause and take, like, a ten
minute walk around the block break.

Emily: Yeah, I definitely had, it
wasn't quite as bad as Dead Alive, but I

definitely had a little bit of a, almost
a Dead Alive lurch in my stomach of like,

Yeah, because you don't see her, but
you hear her and there's a lot of sound

effects in this movie that are extra.

Jeremy: I will say I had seen this
movie before and I had apparently

erased this part from my mind.

Like, I had, I remembered all of it.

except for the vomiting and
then making a man eat it.

Like, I feel like I've seen that on
the internet in certain places, but

Emily: the

other.

Yeah the other thing here is that as
this is going down and as Aoyama is,

his body is hitting the floor with this
paralysis agent, Girls Only One Thing

starts with a P and ends with an S, your
paralysis the mishmash of visions that we

see about her, her childhood, about her,
like that she, she told him about abuse

and he just sort of like waved it off.

and

Jeremy: actively edited that
bit out of their conversation

in his, in the

telling of the story.

Emily: yeah, we also see that he's
been up to no good there's been

all sorts of crazy nonsense that
is suggested and appears here in

this, somewhat psychedelic, but not
psychedelic enough to be not upsetting.

Ben: Yeah, like,

it's psychedelic, but not so psychedelic
that you feel totally untethered

from reality, which kind of makes
it more upsetting and disorienting.

It's very much in that.

There's lots of movies that I feel
like capture the sense of dream like.

This is the rare movie that's really,
I feel, captured that sense of like, I

keep waking up and thinking I'm not in
the dream, but it's still the dream.

Emily: Yes, and also that sense of
when you wake up and you remember a

bunch of shit, like, after a traumatic
event, and then you've had that, like,

full sleep cycle, and then everything
kind of comes back to you in fits and

starts, and it's kind of out of order.

I feel like, yeah, that was

Ben: Or just like, that dre yeah.

Or when he like, started
reaching for his foot.

Like that relief that the terrible
thing that felt so real in the

dream didn't actually happen.

Emily: yeah, so, well, he, he trips out,

Jeremy: And I think like we get a lot of
stuff here the all of which is like we

don't know what's real and what's not he
I think like we get this series of what

feels like a lesson of like he's picturing
this series of women who have been in

the movie including his son's girlfriend
is like these people who are you know

sexual objects to him who are pawing at
him, including his secretary, who we've

been just, who has just been depicted
as being like thirsty this whole time.

And it's like, Oh, well, yeah, actually
he slept with her and then just failed

and didn't say anything to her about
it, despite like her being his employee.

Ben: we get that scene
with the son's girlfriend.

Tell me I'm not completely on base
with my American Beauty connection.

Emily: The American beauty
thing is, I mean, it's,

Ben: I know nobody was arguing
with me, but I'm arguing with the

straw man that did argue with me.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I mean, I'm assuming that interaction
that we see there is like, it's not

something that actually happened,
but is, his mind going, Hey, this

is how you treat women, fucker.

Emily: yeah, yeah, no, I
mean, because a lot of that is

Ben: this is definitely him
being punished by his own

Emily: his,

Ben: desires.

Emily: and he is realizing the overlap
between his dismissal and her abuse,

Like, his role in that kind of abuse,

Ben: She does have that line of pain
being the thing that lets you see what

you are, which, again, isn't a message
we endorse here at Progressively

Horrified, but, thematically it does
fit with what we're shown on screen.

Yeah, unless that's your fucking
thing, in which case, God bless

you, kinky bastard, we love you.

Emily: um, just, take care of yourself.

Ben: Aftercare, motherfucker.

Emily: Yeah, for real.

Okay, so anyway, in this, bit we find
out his, shady audition process was just

only the surface of his corrupt behavior.

We find out about all this other shit.

And then Asami shows up in some sweet
fetish gear with a lot of big rubber

bands and leather, yeah,
like a leather apron.

And, uh, she does some not
so sweet torture with needles

and yadda yadda yadda, gets a
tummy ache and a headache, but

the, yeah, this scene goes on
a long time and it's full of

Ben: well, she has that great moment
where she, when she's like playfully

smiling and jiggling the needles in

and the subtitle translates it
as deeper, deeper, deeper, but.

I looked into that one, and you know,
different translations, and with what

she's saying, there's no, it's a more
cutesy wordplay pun stuff, so there's

no one to one translation, but from
what I read, I think like, a closer

translation that would have captured
what she's saying is essentially like,

going like, Tickle, tickle, tickle!

As she's driving in these needles.

Emily: Yeah.

And she has such a wonderfully Delicate
inflection, when she does that, you can

hear the smile in her voice as she's
like, Oh, giggity, Like she's, feeding

a baby bird or something, but no, she's,
she's driving needles into his stomach

and his, his face and all this kind of

Ben: it's like the movie uses discretion
shots, but it almost doesn't even matter.

Emily: Yeah, while this is
happening Shikihiko comes home.

Oh shit, his friend situation
was cut short because someone got

sick and there was an ambulance.

It sounds pretty fucked up, but we don't
talk about that because he comes in and

watches sees his dad on the floor with
needles sticking out of him and his foot

off and he's like, And then oh shit,
it's Asami, she's coming from behind,

she's got binaka, she's gonna shoot him.

Oh wait, it was a dream.

Oh no, actually it wasn't a dream, sorry.

And then, uh, so,

Ben: I don't know what
she was spraying him with.

I don't not understand how a zombie's

plan was

Jeremy: it's, I assume

it's, some of the same stuff that
she, she used to knock him out.

Like,

Emily: Yeah,

Ben: That made sense.

Did not work before she got a
fuckin Hitmonlee level mega kick.

Emily: Yeah, she got kicked down
the stairs pretty hard by Shigehiko,

and then, you know, her neck broke.

And started squelching in a way
that I thought that there was,

like, a parasite in her or something

Ben: Audience, I, if you're imagining,
this was like a desperate struggle,

and he like, Shugga managed to get a
kick in and shove her with her foot

and she rolled down the stairs in
a bad fall and she broke her neck.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

This man, In the throes of, like,
being attacked, gets such a fucking

solid, powerful kick, She flies
all the way down the stairs.

She does not hit a step on her way down.

She just flies all the fucking way
down and then breaks her neck on

Jeremy: he does full five year old
who doesn't want to go to bed kick.

Like,

falls on his back and doesn't up kick.

Ben: It is wild, like, he gets such
a he lands such a blow, and she

just goes flying like she just got
hit by a with a shotgun in Doom.

Emily: yeah, she was just K.

O., like, she was basically, and it goes
in slow motion multiple shots, like,

she's doing the, uh, uh, uh, like, her
whole, final, like, wealth and glory to

Ben: oh, the scene where he gets
his foot cut off, though, oh my god.

You know James Wan is watching
this and being like, I feel like we

can make a whole movie about this.

Emily: it's,

Jay: thought it was a
ripoff of, of Misery.

Emily: yeah, there's a little bit of that,

Ben: yeah.

No, I, I'm sorry, I say it corrected.

Uh, James Wan's buddy said, I bet
we can make a movie out of that.

And James Wan turned to him and said, I
bet we can make ten movies out of that.

Emily: There's a couple lines here
that I do want to focus on a little

bit, just shine a little spotlight on.

There's a line where the, in the
dream sequence that almost convinces

us this is all just a dream.

She says to Aoyama's dream self that,
she feels really lucky that she was

the one called for the audition because
she's not tomorrow's hero on TV.

She's the hero in real life.

Which I think kind of ties up her whole
motivation in a nice little bow for me.

Um, and, well, how she sees it, at least.

You know, she's obviously not a
superhero, or like, super anti hero

or whatever, because she kills a dog.

Ben: She's got some, like, Dexter
stuff going on, but with a much

lower threshold than Dexter.

Emily: yeah,

Ben: we do get the most disturbing
part of the foot getting cut off,

which is we cut back to the ballet
teacher's stepdad fuckin masturbating

while his foot is getting cut off.

Emily: Yeah, and that's, I
mean, there's a lot of ways you

can see that, but, like, it's

Ben: I don't know how to interpret
it, but it's very upsetting.

Emily: it is upsetting.

I think it's, from her perspective,
she is taking that experience out as

torture, she is feeling the joy Of
cutting off this guy's foot as retaliation

for, like, all of the shit she endured
with that, that fucking dance teacher.

I'm pretty sure all of those bad
guys are dead, but now she's dead

and Ayama is, you know, he's got one
foot, but He's, as far as we know,

still alive, and so is Shigehiko, and
Shigehiko goes on to become a scientist.

And he, he signs up with a company
called International Genetics and

is, uh, subsequently hired by Mr.

John Hammond to take care of
his, all of his dinosaurs.

And he ends up being the only
character in Jurassic Park

that is in all of the movies.

The end.

That last

Ben: Fuckin canon.

Emily: But Shigehiko is fine.

Now, there is a moment that you could
see, especially in that, like, second to

last dreams, or the last dream sequence,
where he, quote, unquote, wakes up in

the bed with her at the weekend retreat.

And I actually, as I was writing
the, uh, the recap, I was

like, oh, Now it's all a dream.

Ayame, you better shape up or
else, the evil lady is gonna

come and take your feet off.

I'm glad that wasn't the case, but that
is definitely a, uh, a cop out ending

that another, a lesser film would, have.

So, that was, uh, Audition.

Respect women.

Ben: Yeah y'all, we, we, we sure
did cover a Miike film, and it,

yeah, so is this movie feminist?

Jeremy: I

referred to this on Twitter as a movie
where a woman does nothing wrong.

Emily: She

kills a dog.

That's wrong.

Jeremy: The dog is wrong.

Yeah.

Ben: she's got some Jojo
villain energy there.

Jeremy: she could have just sprayed
the dog and, you know, made him

Emily: the dog's neck was

Ben: I mean, her look with
like the leather apron and

the gloves, I mean, like.

Would.

Emily: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if
I'd let her stick needles into me Yeah,

Ben: a few needles.

Not that many needles,
they're not in the eye, but

I'm probably getting to three
needles before I'm like, I'm

not sure if this is worth it.

Emily: look at if ladies if you
want to stick a needle in me You

can be my mommy my Dommy mommy
but You got to respect animals

Ben: I know my level of
decision making, and it's poor.

Jeremy: I feel like she took
care of the, like, him looking

tired part, though, right?

Emily: Yeah, she did

Jeremy: It doesn't look
nearly as tired by the end.

Ben: Moisturized, refreshed, thriving?

Jeremy: she, he did, they did a little,
uh, needlework right here around

the bottom of the eyes so that, you

Emily: yeah

Jeremy: it looks

Emily: It's like in the end of,
uh, Kung Fu Hustle, where they

transform him with acupuncture.

Jeremy: Who's to say this wasn't
just acupuncture, honestly.

Emily: He was, actually,
because acupuncture's not

supposed to hurt that bad.

And you're not supposed to go
that much deeper, deeper, deeper

with the, uh, the acupuncture.

And you're not supposed to sit
on the needles, I'm pretty sure.

Jeremy: They're like
slapping those needles when

she's

Ben: Oof.

Jay: Yeah.

This is supposed to be very,

uh,

sterile.

Ben: my god,

right?

Oof.

Emily: I mean, if, sticking needles
in will make me less tired probably

should add some caveats to that.

Anyway, I do think this movie's feminist.

The reason being the, way that
it's shot in the film being the

unreliable narrator starting out
with this is like a goofy, funny very

casually sexist like, romance film.

Even to the point with that scene, because
the scene, the scene in the, uh, hotel,

the European, like, via hotel, is actually
very tender in another film, because

she dresses it as her being honest.

Like, she has these scars, and she
wants him to look at her and sort

of be like, okay, this is me, You
don't necessarily touch me, but

look upon, look this, look at me,

Ben: In another movie, this is a
very tender, beautiful scene of

communication, consent, and disability,
or atypical beauty advocacy.

In this movie, it's just
prelude to it's just unsettling.

Emily: Yeah.

Um, and it

Ben: And I think it I think it's just a
change of score and different lighting.

Emily: and it's seen
through his perspective.

Like this is the version of his
relationship that he is directing,

right?

That he is producing.

Yeah.

She's a little, she's very.

Mysterious and a little bit daunting
in her, just how mysterious she is.

But also she's very demure.

She is almost like this medieval
courtesan kind of character.

Or, you know, or not, not even a
courtesan, but like a princess or

something where she is like, oh,
I've been through so many things

and I just need a man to save me.

and even then, like, he doesn't,
we don't know about the extent

of the abuse until later.

Um, but we do know that she's
been through some shit and she

has cool moving furniture that's
probably her last director in a bag.

Jeremy: Yeah.

It's the, uh, the studio exec, the

record guy.

And it only now occurred to me
as you guys were talking about

that last point she does say, You
wanna know how I got these scars?

Emily: Yeah,

Jeremy: is, really a question
that leads to good stuff.

Ben: Takashi Miike's Joker.

Holy shit, I need to see it now.

Emily: well, it is, it's in the movie,
Ichi the Killer, that's where he is,

he's right there.

Ben: God, okay, gotcha.

Emily: He is not Ichi the Killer, despite.

The movie being called Ichi the
Killer and he is on all of the

covers of the film, but it's a
different, that's a different guy.

Ichi the Killer's a different guy.

Also, the movie Displays its feminism
because it calls into question

like, especially, like, showing
you, the viewer, and getting you

into that sense of complacency with
what's going on with these guys,

they are still being deplorable.

But it's all kind of funny, and so
you're not quite sure what the tone of

the film is, so you're, just kind of.

Waiting and kind of like,
okay, where does this go?

Okay, maybe the, you know, this
will be a morality tale, whatever.

But from her side, as we see her
side, you see just how fucking

horrible it's been for her.

Jeremy: Right, and he is, this is
not an isolated incident for her.

Like, he thinks, this is just me doing
this thing that maybe isn't 100 percent

ethical, but like, it's, Mostly harmless.

Like, she has been, like, we're
shown she has been taken advantage

of since she was a child by men
who, put their own needs over hers.

Emily: yeah, and it's also a
really important point about.

He, considers himself a good
guy, so he can do this 1 thing.

Right?

He's doing this because.

His son wants it, his friend is
helping him, but he's generally

a good guy, you know, he's not,

Ben: It's,

Emily: about the things that he's, the
other things that he's done, because

this is what's important right now.

And, he's dealing with the death
of his wife and wasn't that sad.

We're not talking about any of
the other things that he's done.

Jeremy: Wasn't that said

Ben: it felt very realistic
in that, again, I talked about

how it's presented so casually.

Like they don't even act like they're
doing this big terrible scandalous thing.

It's just like, yeah,
we'll set up an audition.

It'll be fun.

And I think that, I know, where I
think you get benefit of that from,

you know, a discussion standpoint is
that I think it speaks less to the

standpoint of like, Ooh, here's like,
two sexist assholes, Look at how just

these characters were bad people.

And it speaks to just, How ingrained
and societal attitudes towards women,

Towards dating, towards marriage
were, That, These two guys would, Do

something this fucked up, And never
even stop, And actually even realize

they were doing something fucked up.

Like, I think it did a good job
speaking to this as a systemic issue

and not we're pinning this crime
on just these two individual guys.

Emily: Yes.

Jay: Well, he, he does pause for
a moment to question the plan.

He, he says, this doesn't seem ethical,
but his acceptance of the excuse

as to why it is, I think is what.

Ben makes it problematic because
he does question it, right?

He does go, wait a second, I,
I don't think this is cool,

Ben: There's some nice comedic
timing where he's like,

well, isn't this unethical?

He's like, well, not if we
actually make a real movie of it.

He's like, well, are you going
to make a real movie of it?

He's like, well, no, but if we did,

maybe it's like,

well,

Jay: he does

kind of, so, This is, how I read it.

This is how I read it.

Like, I don't think he was
worried about the efforts of

casting a woman to do whatever.

I don't think that's why
he asked the question.

I think he was worried about the legal
consequence to him and his buddy, right?

That's how I kind of read that line.

Because they did piggyback it off another
film they were supposed to work on.

At least at first or whatever, right?

He said, because he said, you
know, so I think it was more like,

can we cover our asses if this
kind of goes south or whatever,

Emily: And also, he says,
I feel like a criminal.

And then the other guy just kind of
laughs it off and then we get a bunch

of very casual editing and kind of
comedic editing of all of these women

enduring all sorts of invasive questions
and, you know, essentially assaults.

Jay: that's one thing I want
to say is that, you know,

they are invasive questions.

I think that the addition scene
actually has a higher level of

absurdity than people kind of realize.

And I think, it's very,
very heightened in how.

uh, sexist and, objectifying
these two men are, right?

Emily: yeah,

Jay: they frame certain women, certain
body types in a certain type of way.

Sometimes they just have them sit there
and say nothing, and it's clearly that

they're judging them on their looks.

And it's like, almost a thing
where you can see the gears working

behind their head, like, Oh.

Look at you.

How dare you even show
up for this audition?

You're not like, you know,
you're not star material, let

alone like wife material, right?

And then there are scenes of people who
I think were actually quite talented.

You have someone who
is, um, a baton twirler.

You have someone who knows how to um,
dance the samba or whatever, right?

And they're quite skilled.

And then, These two look at each other
like, man, what the fuck are they doing?

They're just wasting our time, right?

There's like, an absurdity where we're
s We're subjectively we're supposed

to be with these men and thinking,
oh, look at these absurd women, but

if you kind of get it It's more like
oh, no, look at these two absurd dudes

and how they're judging these women,

Emily: yeah, and then,

Ben: Look at them sit in a room and smoke
an entire pack of cigarettes an hour.

Emily: yeah, and, um,

Ben: at Art Spiegelman levels, and if
you have ever seen Art Spiegelman smoke,

you know how much smoking that is.

Emily: comics deep cut.

Ben: I went to see that man speak.

He finished off, he literally
finished off an entire pack of

cigarettes in a 90 minute talk.

Emily: is he still kicking?

Ben: Oh yeah.

Emily: Good for him.

So, yeah, the, cognitive dissonance of
that whole scene is really fascinating

because, yeah, that is, they are in a
completely different world as these women

are, and I also accept as horrifying
as it is that a lot of that stuff

is probably, is pretty commonplace.

Yeah.

Jay: So, I think each film
system is different, right?

They're fundamentally different.

So the film system in Japan is gonna
be different from the film system in

America, which is different from Britain,
New Zealand, India, you know, South

Africa, wherever you go to make a movie.

and so we don't really have a lot of.

Roles that are universal internationally,
but we do have roles that are

kind of, consistent nationwide.

Right?

Emily: Yeah.

Jay: so I think.

Over the course of time,
even though it doesn't seem

like it, especially.

it doesn't seem like it, especially,
you know, when you have documentaries

that just came out, kind of like
quiet on set and show what the film

industry was like in the 90s, where

Ben: know.

Oh, you want, you want horror?

Go watch Quiet on Set.

Jay: yeah the United States, I
think through a couple of different

mechanisms, whether it's, you know,
local government, or if it's, you

know, one of the guilds, right, or
if it's just like Studio Protocol.

They'll create these
protections over time.

And, for things such as sex, I remember
going into the film industry, um,

I'm sorry, I went to film school.

At the same time as another friend of
mine who decided to, you know, he wasn't

going to school or anything like that.

He was going to jump straight into
doing it at making movies out of like

Seattle and all that kind of stuff.

And so he took two very
different paths, right?

And there's a protocol if you're, if
there's like, if you have like a, a nude

scene or sex scene or Anything like that.

There's a protocol that you're
supposed to follow, right?

There's a series of different protocols.

Generally you have to
keep the question private.

You have to alert the actors
ahead of time, that this is going

to involve nudity or sex scene.

So it's not even a question that you
can ask them when they're In the room

with you, you're supposed to, you know,
make it very clear when you set out when

you send out the, um, the breakdown for
the role and then they come in, right?

There's a way that's just not to
discuss it, and even when you film

it it's changed to this point we
have a very, very specific way

that we film those scenes, right?

Now.

I'm I have no idea what
Japan's system is for this.

I have no idea if they have any kind of
system remotely like this but to relate

it to my American friend like I said, I'm
not gonna name names, I'm not gonna call

anyone out, but I know when he went out
there and started making films, he's like,

yeah, we had to shoot it commercially,
like, we had to ask every girl to,

like, show us their breasts, right?

Like, wearing their bras and all that,
but he's like, you know, we had to

ask them to take off their tops and
it was awesome and all that, right?

And, you know, I was like, I I don't know
if that sounds too awesome to me, right?

and It sounded wrong to me at the time,
but we hadn't yet, talked about all of

the kind of legal procedure and stuff like
that when it came to scenes like that.

at the time, I didn't even think
I would shoot a scene like that.

And then, of course, being me,
so years later, I actually,

you know, shot two of them.

So I became very familiar with the roles
and, it occurred to me how outside of

a setting where they make sure people
kind of are safe and that they know the

rules and all that kind of stuff, that
this stuff really runs rapid, right?

It even runs rapid in a safe setting.

I'm not saying that, If you go
on the professional route, the

protections are, like, rock solid.

People will still find ways around it.

But it helps.

It helps to have that structure
and all that stuff, right?

so the idea that's in there and asking
them, like, uh, do you mind doing sex

scenes, and then I think the question,
do you mind doing sex scenes in itself?

That is very sketchy territory, and it's
not something that you should probably

do, but, it's not quite too far out the
realm of reason yet, but then they go

really far outside the realm of reason.

They're like, Do you know
anything about adult films?

You know, what's your past sexual history?

All this kind of stuff that,
you would never fucking ask.

Ever, right?

That would just like For
all sorts of reasons.

And yeah, it's really insanely gross.

And, as I, you know, like the entire world
found out in 2013, 2014, whenever it was,

the casting couch culture, was very real.

Um, you know, I'm sure people
still try to get away with it.

yeah.

Emily: that's good to know for sure,
because, I mean, I just know that

in any sort of creative field where
somebody wants to do the, has their

dream job, and to that extent, any
field where somebody is, invested

enough that it is their dream job.

Yeah.

but I know creative fields, especially
because of the, subjective nature of,

art, that kind of corruption is incredibly
rampant and it's easy to exploit somebody

who sees getting the job as the reward.

As opposed to, being held in esteem
to do a good job and being trusted

to do that job as, in, like, making
something that they're proud of as

the reward, because a lot of people,
who have wanted to get into artistic.

Fields, there's a lot of, Excitement
and nervousness and, all the stuff that

does not allow us to really you know,
to see past the moment of the, of the

review or the audition or whatever.

and now a lot of people I'm
sure are very jaded about it.

Like, I have definitely am, but

Jay: you know, I have some of that too.

The one thing you said that I really
want to touch on is that, people

are so eager for these, careers.

I, think it's universally
true of the arts, right?

I, I can speak, more professionally as
a, as a writer and a filmmaker, but, I

know in film especially, the big secret
is, is that like everyone is terrified.

Everyone is either trying to
get the job or everyone is

afraid of losing a job, right?

Um, and so when they hear these requests
or these orders or something from

someone kind of like higher up or more
powerful or who is at least perceived

to be in a position of power, right?

It's basically like
their word is God, right?

And, uh, uh, there are some people who are
very aware of that, and there's some other

people who are just, like, aren't aware
of that, and then there are other people

who are, like, very, very callous and
are willing to exploit that and all that

right, and so I definitely have my moments
where it's like, Well, can you do this?

And I'm like, okay, I, don't
know that that sounds kosher.

I don't know that that sounds
like something that I should be

doing, but what am I gonna do?

I can't, I'm not really in a
position to say no here, right?

I, I gotta keep this job.

I gotta, you know, keep working my
way up and all that and and you can

get into a lot of trouble that way.

I think especially to kind of like take
it back to the movie, The Audition, and

with young with young women in particular,
who I would say that there's a culture

where they tend to be, on average, a
lot more kind of like serious and driven

and guided and all that, right, and
professional, and so, they're willing

to really just go in there and be a
team player and all that kind of stuff

and then there are definitely people
who are willing to kind of abuse that,

I think, just, just really quick, I
guess since, since we're discussing it

I'll very quickly go over the current
protections as I know it, right?

So, like, You create a breakdown for film
the breakdown is when you go through,

you take all your characters that you're
casting, and you create kind of like

a brief blurb about them, what you're
looking for it's generally very specific

in terms of age, ethnicity, etc, right,
usually some of the casting directors

put it on a website, And then if there
is nudity or sex scene or even just

like underwear and all that you have
to be very specific and that has to

come up front and let people know that
that's going to be part of the role.

You send that out, you get your
auditions, you are not allowed to

ask them to take their clothes off.

in the audition, like this anecdotal
friend of mine did uh, that is against

the rules, and it's just pretty behavior
anyway, because what's going on is when

you're in those rooms, it's often two or
three people behind the desk, you know,

the director, uh, casting director, maybe
a producer, agent or something, right?

And then one actor on the other side
usually alone, sometimes another actor

to read with them, but that single
actor is always going to be the odd

person outside of the productions.

So they're very vulnerable.

and your job is to help
them relax and kind of be as

comfortable as possible, right?

Same thing with the rehearsal, there
is really no great excuse if you're

on like a table read or you're gonna
rehearse or all that to say, okay, top

off, we're doing this, et cetera, right?

When you actually get to set, and
by the way If an actor has to get

naked or perform a sex scene, they
are allowed to say no at any time.

I don't think a lot of People know that.

even if they agree to the role,
they can say no at any time

and you have to call it off.

The end.

You know, I actually almost got
into that situation and my actor

was like, I don't know about this.

I'm like, I'm thinking in my head,
well, I wanted that, but let me go

ahead and reorganize this shoot really
quickly in my head and see how we

can pull it off without that scene.

Right?

And then she said, no, no, nevermind.

It's okay.

I'm just nervous.

I'm like, are you absolutely?

Sure, I asked her like three
times, said Twitter, it's fine,

and she wanted to call it off.

But you know, she went ahead with it
fantastic performance and all that, right?

But they are allowed to say no.

When you actually get to the day
of the scene the rules are that

it needs to be minimal crawl.

So, so you only have absolutely
necessary people for the scene.

You know, no one else can
be on set at the time.

And then you have to match the gender
of the person involved in the scene.

You have to have at least one person
on set who is there to kind of, be

their, I guess, advocate almost, right?

And make sure that they're comfortable
so that you don't have, like, a young

woman in a room all full of, like, glaring
men and all that kind of stuff, right?

So they have at least one
ally that they feel on set.

you get the scene and then, you're done.

That's kind of, so it's not like, oh,
you can't go out and do those scenes.

It's just that, there are ways to be,
very careful about who you're protecting.

Uh, there are, um.

Additional rules and laws, depending
on the age of the actor as well, right?

Minors absolutely not allowed under
any circumstances, which is why you

get a lot of like films where you'll
hear someone is like, you know, 16

year old and they'll be like a 30
year old actor and I know it's like a

hilarious, and all that, but there's
very strong legal reasons for that.

Emily: Oh, totally.

Like, that's one of those things that, you
know as I grew older and became a little

bit more aware of that, because when I
was a teen it frustrated the shit out of

me, because I'm like, what's this, this
is un, this isn't like, un, fair beauty

standards, and then I realized like,
oh, you know, and now I'm like, yeah,

Ben: I mean, we talked about
that one, uh, Spanish horror

movie, uh, what was it, Piggy?

Is that what it was?

Where, again, the whole concept of the
film is just an hour and a half of this

teenage girl main character belittled and
shamed for her body and her appearance.

And I'm like, and we even talked about it,
I'm like, I'm very okay with this teenage

role having been played by a woman in her
early 30s and not actually subjecting a

teenage girl to this level of body shaming

Emily: Yes.

For sure.

Ben: But yeah, did this movie
have anything queer going on,

Jay: Oh, uh, before we move
on, can I say one more thing?

Emily: oh yeah, please.

Jay: so, I'm curious on this
podcast, have you ever covered

the original I Spit on Your Grave?

Yeah,

Emily: I have, I haven't watched
all of it, but I have heard about

it and a friend of mine did some,
pretty in depth reviews of it.

So,

Jay: it's a very, very intense film.

I give like the strongest sugar warning
possible for that movie, for the original.

I mean, the remake is pretty bad
too, and I think the remake misses

some things that the original had.

But, I think in terms of an interesting.

capsule of culture and how it's received.

I, I spit on your grave.

It has like a spiritual relationship
to audition where, while it's doing

one thing and you got to keep in mind
the error when it was made, it was

made during the exploitation era when
people were being more risque and when

they were trying to use these films
to make a statement that was like anti

Hollywood and all that kind of stuff.

For people that don't know, it is a
film about a woman who was assaulted and

then she goes again, goes out and gets
revenge against people that assaulted her.

One of them is kind of neurodivergent,
and so there's a lot of like, ethical

shit there that's, kind of doesn't jive
so much, but when the film came out It

was protested as this gross piece of like,
misogynistic fantasy and all that, and

then over the years, it, the perception
around it changed, and people started

to embrace it as almost like a feminist
revenge film against, attackers and

rapists and all that kind of thing, and
so, it's very interesting, Like I said,

it's not something I advise that you just
jump out and see, especially if you're

very sensitive to this kind of stuff,
it can easily be triggering, I think.

But I do think that, it uses that
initial setup to put her in this

position where she gets, like, this
really exceedingly violent, but, very

cathartic revenge against these men.

I think I've always seen both
of these as one of the same.

Audition for as gross as it is,
and for as violent as it is, is

actually the tamer of the two movies.

Uh, so if you can't, like, if you can
barely handle audition, definitely

do not go see I Spit on Your Grave.

But I think it's interesting, because I
think when it comes to film, there's a

lot of things People aren't quite sure
that like, that anger and frustrated and

upset people that they don't quite know
how to like kind of vocalize and show in a

way on film you know, that's really going
to kind of like resonate with people.

Other people just really do want
to kind of like shock and all that,

but I don't feel either film is
really out there to shock you just

for like, The hell of it and for
the uh, the spectacle of it, right?

I do I could feel they have these
strong points they want to make.

And the reason I bring it up is
because I did mention it's one of

those films where as you're watching
it, you question yourself, is it

misogynistic, is it feminist, or is
it like both at the same time, right?

and both of them are very, very
much products of their time.

One was made in the 1970s,
another was made in, like, 1999.

I think if you were to
make, same with Hard Candy.

Hard Candy was, late 2000s, early
2010s, or something like that.

So, um, they're all really time
capsules, and it's a topic I

think films keep returning to,
unfortunately, because it's a topic

that needs to keep being addressed.

Um, so that's all I wanted to say on that.

Emily: that's super valid We were
talking about the, hostile and the human

centipede and all this kind of stuff.

These are films that Are there to be
are like, basically exploitation and

films, like, I spit on your grave.

I feel, again, I haven't seen it,
but the review that I've seen and the

discussions I've had with people about it.

A lot of the, uh, current, like, the
reaction as much as it is problematic.

It is more of a revenge story.

if you look into the director,
and the inspiration that the

director had in making that film.

Jay: Yes, exactly, exactly.

Exactly.

Emily: and there is a important
difference between having a movie

that is shocking that has all of these
really, really shocking elements.

But it's saying something, um, and
then a film that is just shocking for

the sake of being a shock that, like,
you know, like a human centipede.

Although I haven't seen human centipede,
but maybe there's some sort of really,

like, you know, important class commentary
and human centipede about trickle

down economics or some shit, but like,

Jay: funny you say that because, uh,

Ben: I

think, I think there's a strong
argument to be made that the

entirety of human centipede is a
metaphor for trickle down economics.

Jay: God yeah, thank you.

I think, I think that's a really
great way to to vocalize us.

Thank you for that.

And it's funny that you say that
because I just stumbled on a film

series the other day accidentally on
The Purge and The Purge is something

that I had like no interest in before.

And they were like, oh, but it's
actually like, about, classism and

corrupt politics and, uh, and one
party trying to, create a fascist

nation, and I'm like, oh, wow, okay.

I think that changed my
mind about the movie.

I need to go watch these now.

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, The Purge
as a series is of varying quality.

You know, and The First Movie
is a completely different film

than the rest of the series.

I think we've covered, and I would
definitely recommend, the movie

called The First Purge, which is not
the first movie in the series, but

Ben: Oh, I love, I love First

Jeremy: infusingly titled The First
Purge, which is, is like, takes

place during the first time that The
Purge happened, Specifically follows

like these sort of purge goings on
in this, black neighborhood where,

Jay: Oh, wow, okay.

Jeremy: everybody, yeah, all all
the people who would do those

things, if they could all sort of,
roll into this, this neighborhood.

Jay: Ah, I get what you're saying.

That sounds really interesting.

Yeah, I will check that out.

Yeah,

Jeremy: yeah, I would say, uh,
jumping back to audition for for a

minute, just to look at other stuff.

I mean, I don't think.

We're in a particularly, uh, good
situation for us to talk about any, racial

politics there may be in this movie.

Not to mention, if there is anything
queer in this movie, it is, so

Ben: yeah.

Jeremy: uh,

Ben: I definitely think there is
something, not necessarily with

class, but I definitely think
Japan's changing economic fortunes

in the late 90s definitely plays.

a role or as a through line in the movie.

Jeremy: And there's a lot of them talking
about like, oh, everything's down.

Well, you said that last year.

Ben: back before calling it only
The Last Decade sounded ambitious.

Jeremy: yeah, I I don't think
there's much useful in the way of.

of mental illness or anything in there.

There's, like, she definitely is dealing
with trauma, but there is no indication

that our, that she as a character is
anything other than, like, consciously

deciding to wreak havoc on these guys
who are specifically fucking her over,

but generally fucking women over.

It's not a mental illness question.

She is not a This is not psycho.

She is doing this because it is
what she wants to do and they

may or may not have it coming,
depending on how you feel about that.

Emily: yeah.

Jeremy: They definitely
have something coming.

It may or may not be grotesque murder.

And then, grotes, torture and then murder.

Emily: Listen, if you want to do
revenge, that's fine, just keep

the kids, the innocent children
and animals out of it, okay?

Jeremy: in fairness, she did try to
keep the kid out of it and he just,

Emily: No, she, she, fully said, I
may just fuck your kid up because

you're, that's the only thing that
will, that you will it's the only

kind of reasoning you'll listen to.

She was, while she was sticking
needles in him, she's like, and

also your kid, how about that?

And he's like, no, don't!

And she's like, hey, who knows?

She killed the dog.

She probably would have
killed the kid just as much.

If not more.

Yeah,

Jeremy: obviously with
caveats, recommend this movie

Ben: Again, if the idea of the
movie that inspired the genre

of torture porn Appeals to you?

Yeah, fuckin you'll have a you'll
have yourself a great movie

watching time, you fuckin sicko.

If the idea of sitting through the
inspiration for Hostel gives you

pause, maybe listen to that pause.

No, like, it's a good I think
this was a very well made, very

interesting movie, but when it gets
going, it is, uh, it is a battle to

Jeremy: does.

Those last 20 minutes will, if they
do not make you squirm, you have

a much stronger stomach than I do.

Yeah, it's it's rough going
even, you know, quite some time

after that movie's release.

watching somebody get their foot sawed
off with a wire is, is not, easy.

Emily: Yeah I mean, good
revenge movie more or less.

But I mean, I definitely would
recommend it over I Spit on Your Grave.

And although I Spit on Your
Grave does have a little bit

more of a clear, like, cause

Jay: guess, yeah, con
exactly A consequence.

Yeah.

Emily: Yeah, whereas this movie is a
little bit harder to parse just because of

how edited it is, uh, in various places.

But, I, it's definitely an important
movie and it's definitely a movie

I would recommend to somebody who's
interested in, in important movies

like that, as long as they have, you
know, they take some Potebismol and

Jeremy: It's one of those movies that
I feel like more guys need to see,

Emily: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Jeremy: a lot of women who have already
undergone this sort of stuff may or

may not want to see it, may or may not
need, I mean, definitely don't need

to see it but, you know, you, you may
want to, uh, I do feel like this is

maybe something more guys that are
like our main character in this movie

should maybe watch and think about,

Emily: Yeah.

Think about

Jay: You may maybe even like deprogramming
red pilled people, but like at the

end of their deprogramming, , I spent
on your grade will not be it because

it is extremely difficult to watch.

I think Miike is.

Incredibly interesting director.

uh, I think, yeah, I think Miike is an
incredibly interesting director, Someone

I don't think is talked about often, and I
actually think Audition is one of his much

stronger films because it is a lot more
thoughtful in terms of its pacing, right?

A lot of stuff that comes out after
this is very kind of like falls

to the wall, don't have a chance
to catch your breath, you know, as

the action just kind of goes down.

So I'm actually, I guess I'm going to be
the odd one out, and I would give Audition

a very strong recommendation to people,

Emily: By the way, Jade, we missed a
couple of things that you said before.

You said that Takashi Miike was a
really interesting actor or director.

Yeah.

Jay: No, yeah, I noticed my connection
went unstable, so I just repeated

myself, so you got everything.

Emily: cool.

Thank

you.

Oh my God.

Jeremy: Sorry, I was just noticing Takashi
Miike directed a live adaptation of JoJo's

Bizarre Adventure, Diamond is Unbreakable,

um,

Ben: yeah.

Jeremy: and Ace Attorney.

Jay: In the

That one, unfortunately,
I can't recommend.

Emily: that's

too

Jeremy: a wor he is a working
ass director, I will say that.

He's got a lot of stuff on his resume.

not everything can be Ultraman Max.

Jay: Yeah.

Ben: It definitely checks out that
he did Blade of the Immortal, though.

Emily: Oh my God.

Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, I
do think I recommend it.

I think it is one of those like, you
know, if you're gonna enjoy it or not

Before you watch it if you know if the
idea of somebody being tortured by having

a series of needles driven into their
eyes and chest and then Having their

legs sawed off is the thing that you're
like, I don't know if I want to see that

then yeah Just don't do it But if it's
something that you know You're like, well,

I could be game for that if there is a
movie that supports it, but by all means,

like, if the movie supports it, um, and it

is, it is an interesting exercise
in tone as well, just because as

we've said, this movie makes a hard
right turn in the last, 30 minutes.

Jay: I will toss in, you know, I, as a
rule, I don't like revenge films but I

think the three that we mentioned, on
here tonight, Hard Candy, I Spit on Your

Grave, and Audition are in that very
weird category where I do enjoy them

just because they have, not only have
something to say, but they're funny.

It's not like, I'm tired of there being
so many brown people in my neighborhood.

I'm gonna take a gun and go out
and do something about that.

Like a lot of revenge films do.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

Ben: we call that the full Neeson.

Jay: I like that.

Emily: not to be confused
with the full Nissan.

Ben: Hey, yeah.

Emily: No.

Ben: just a great deal.

Emily: Yeah, I don't think a Nissan
is going kill that many people, Um,

Jeremy: Jay, did you have
something you wanted to recommend

Jay: I do, in fact, and I have two.

the first one is going to be a lot closer
to, um, addition, and it is going to be

pretty fucked up, especially after you
hear what it is and who it's by, so, again

I wouldn't quite give the same strong
trigger warning that I gave for the other

two films, but I, it's still a slight one.

So, Park Chan wook, the famous director
of Oldboy, uh, a lot of people don't know

that that's actually, like, a trilogy.

There's actually three parts to the film.

And the final part of the trilogy is
called Sympathy for Lady Vengeance.

And I think Sympathy for Lady Vengeance
is very worth watching, right?

I don't want to give too much
of it away, but it is about a

wrongfully convicted woman prisoner.

Who decides to go out and find, you
know, she was wrongfully convicted

of murdering a child and she
sets out to find the real killer.

But, you know, it is By the same person
that made Oh Boy, so just keep in mind

what that means, you know, before you
go and see Sympathy for Lady Vengeance.

Just a fun factoid, and I didn't even
know this before I watched it, but

there is a version of, Sympathy for
Lady Vengeance that has a narrated

track that's actually done by one of
my professors, talking about the film

and breaking it down and all that.

his name is Richard Pena.

He was my history of film and film
criticism teacher at Columbia.

Really, really smart guy.

And so, I don't know how easy that
version of the film is bind, right?

But I would recommend it overall.

Now in case you got through all this
and said the Vengeance Trilogy audition.

hard candy, I spit on your
grave, purge, hostile, all that

doesn't sound like my cup of tea.

How about I give you something that's
still, in the same unsettling horror

genre, but also nice and wholesome?

It

is

called, it is called Banned
from Broadcast, Psycho the

Large Family, S A I K O, right?

Emily: Yes.

Jay: Yeah, you can find it, you
can find it pretty easily, just

type it in YouTube or something.

it is in a mockumentary style about a very
big family trying to get by in a time that

Japan is experiencing its birth decline.

And it is about a father figure who
comes in, actually the family's last

dad went missing, and just tries, uh,
to work his way into this new family,

let's say, all while they have a Canadian
film crew kind of hovering over them.

It is very unsettling, but it is
bizarrely heartwarming, I will say.

So, so those are my two.

Emily: I mean, I've said most of
the things I'd recommend, but, um,

I have one here that is a TV show.

If you like.

the look of Asami in her leather gear.

Jeremy: Oh, boy.

Emily: but you don't want it to be
like all about crazy torture, although

there was some crazy torture involved.

In a fun way, there is a weird
show from Japan from I think the

early 2000s Vermillion Pleasure

Ben: You you could've
just said show from Japan.

Emily: There's a, there's, it's
a whole country, there's a lot of

different shows, but I mean this
was a late night show from Japan.

It was a late night variety
show with a bunch of

Ben: The late night Japanese
variety show was weird, you

Emily: Yeah.

Well, and this one is weird,
but it is pretty funny.

And there's a lot of weird like goth
fetish stuff in it, but in a fun way.

And that's all I'll really
say about Vermilion pr

Ben: We should have more
gobshit in our late night shows.

Craig Ferguson would've fuckin rocked it.

Emily: Yeah.

Conan fucking the O'Brien, he was

so tall.

Ben: the O'Brien, I,

Emily: Conan the O'Brien.

He, uh, you put him in some stilettos.

Ben: eh.

My favorite, I do love that 80s fantasy
where it's like, the technology is

medieval and fancy but the plastic
surgery and makeup is very 1987.

Emily: How did these people
all get their hair feathered

in, like, the Barbarian Times?

Ben: I

did watch Conan the Barbarian for
the very first time this month

and it is so fucking hilarious.

Just the amount of like.

Botox and blowout hair that
Conan's mom has in this fucking

medieval peasant village.

Emily: In the snow?

Yeah,

Ben: yeah,

Emily: I love that movie so much.

Jeremy: So you finally
know what is best in

Ben: Fucking like James
Earl Jones has bangs.

What more

Emily: I know!

His weird page boy bangs!

It's so weird,

and yet, like, it's still,
I'm still like, Slay.

Ben: My recommendation

though, uh,

Emily: snake.

Ben: so if you watched this movie and
you really liked kind of the first hour

and you're like, but podcast hosts, I
want a movie that is about middle aged

people learning to move past their
baggage and then find a love again.

So I am recommending Enough Said, starring
Julianne Dreyfuss and James Gandolfini.

Emily: It's important to have, you
know, some bookends around that.

The

Ben: That's my recommendation.

Just, just do Audition
Enough Said double feature.

Emily: There you go.

Jay: Julia would side Tripes is one of
my favorites, so she's, she's awesome.

Ben: Again, Ted Lasso fuckin hit the
nail on the head when they called her,

like, the Dave Grohl of television.

Jeremy: Pretty solid.

Ben: Yeah, Julie Lou Julie Louis
Dreyfuss, you can't go wrong.

Jay: Yeah.

Emily: it!

That works so well!

Jay: Yeah.

Emily: What the fuck!

Oh my god.

Jeremy: That's good.

I really, there's a revenge movie
out now that I really want to

see, but I have not seen yet.

I really want to see Monkey Man.

It looks incredible.

But have not seen it yet,
so I cannot recommend it.

So I'm going to recommend something
completely off the wall that has

nothing to do with any of this.

Because I feel like you need a
change of pace after watching this.

You need something a little less
serious, a little less deep,

I think, is one way to put it.

So I have recently, inspired by my
love for of Everything Everywhere All

at Once, gone back and checked out the
Daniel's previous movie, Swiss Army

Man which, if you thought Everything
Everywhere All at Once was weird,

you have not seen Paul Dano write
a farting Harry Potter to safety.

This is, it's so strange
it's about Paul Dano,

Emily: Okay,

Jeremy: know,

Emily: Yes.

Jeremy: Who is Paul Dano's character
is a guy who is on an island.

He's, he's stranded.

He's finally decided that he's,
he's just going to commit suicide

when he spots another, uh, person
who has washed up on shore.

And it is, uh, Daniel
Radcliffe and he is dead.

Or is he?

Because he, Paul Dano decides
to go ahead and befriend this

strange farting dead guy.

And finds that the dead guy has a
series of superpowers, that his farts

are powerful enough to, that Paul Dano
can ride him across the water from this

island, and that he pours fresh water
from his mouth when when you open it.

And he has a series of other incre
increasingly weirder superpowers.

This dead body and the character starts
talking to him and they have a lot of

philosophical conversations and, It's
definitely about the character Paul

Dano plays, like, finding himself and
trying to understand himself better.

But also, you will become increasingly
unsure whether Daniel Radcliffe is

actually dead or if he has somehow
been revived throughout this film.

And what any of that means.

And it's a wild film.

Emily: like it.

Jeremy: you can really feel the
beginnings of what's gonna become

everywhere, everything everywhere
all at once, but it still has a lot

of their like roots in music videos,
which is how the Daniels started.

So it's, it's a really strange, really
interesting film that's out there.

So, I mean, it's, it is.

At the same time, nothing like
everything, everywhere, all at once,

but very much like from the same brain,
from the same parts of the brain.

Emily: That sounds like it.

I've, I've seen it recommended to
me, it's on, and I've seen the cards

for it on, uh, streaming media.

And it's I've, It has intrigued me, and

it is

Jeremy: say it is, it
is not for everybody.

Alicia did not finish this film.

Jay: That should be like the
A24 pictures logo, uh, uh,

motto, not for everybody.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And I think that's part of why
I, I love so much 824 stuff

is it's not for everybody.

It's, they let it stay weird.

But yeah, definitely, if you
haven't seen Swiss Army Man,

alright, already check that out.

Emily: Excellent.

Ben: Alright, I think that's everybody.

Jay, can you tell us where we can find you
and what you got, uh, comin up and cookin

Jay: Oh, okay.

Well, you can find me at jjosephjr.

beesky.

social.

You know, I'm, basically
moving over to blue sky.

uh, What do I have cooking?

I don't know that I have anything
I can talk about just yet,

but you know, a few years ago, I
adapted the English language version

of a manga called Pompo the Cinephile,
which is, appropriate to what we talked

about on Progressively Horrified.

And I know the manga, the manga, the
mangaka who wrote it was Has very

much worked in the film industry.

definitely new with stuff, and I only
recently found out it was actually

made into an animated film in 2021?

I

have not seen it.

Yeah, I actually haven't
seen it myself yet.

I literally just found this out yesterday.

so if you were checking out, you know, if
if you like it, go check out the manga.

I, I did not write it, but you
know, I was part of the translation

team that brought it over to, you
know, the United States and Canada.

And I think it is a great book
and definitely worth reading,

especially if you have any kind
of interest at all in film.

So that's me.

Emily: Awesome.

And I'm megamoth.

net.

Mega and moth at the same time.

Mega moth.net.

Mega moth on Instagram.

Mega moth on Patreon and
mega moth on blue Sky.

Come and see.

I'm, I'm not quipping on
t on uh, Twitter anymore.

I'll repost stuff, but all my good
quips, I'm saving from Blue Sky.

Ben: I am right there with you.

All the best equipment is going on Blue
Sky these days at Ben Kahn Comics also

on Instagram and convention schedule.

Uh, you can find me this summer.

I will be making, I will be tabling
at Flame Kahn in August, and, should,

I should be doing some cool stuff,
uh, with the Tokyo Pop Crew for the

Captain Laserhawk manga at Anime NYC.

Emily: Nice.

Jay: Hey B, say, I don't know
where to find FlameKahn at.

Where do I go to see that?

Ben: Flame, where's Flame Kahn?

Uh, Flame Kahn is in New York,
so you can look that up, and both

of those are happening in August.

Jeremy: Awesome.

Yeah.

Don't go to Twitter.

Find me at jeremywhitley.

bluesky.

all that.

I'm there.

I'm also on Tumblr, if
you'd rather be on Tumblr.

It just is jeremywhitley.

tumblr.

And my website is jeremywhitley.

com.

Uh, you can find me all sorts of places.

By the time this comes out,
MomoKahn will have already happened.

But I will also be at FlameKahn.

I will be at ALA, in San Diego this year.

On the off chance that you're in
Germany, I will also be at GalaKahn.

Uh, and I have found out for certain I
will be at DragonCon this year as well.

So, uh, if you're in Atlanta, if
you're in New York, if you're in,

oh, if you're in Seattle, I'll be
at Everfree Northwest, which is a My

Little Pony convention in Seattle.

So I'm gonna be all around the place.

So come find me, come buy things,
including, uh, you know, coming out

this summer we've got Navigating
With You, my, uh, romance book from

Maverick and Mad Cave which you
should definitely check out along with

everything else I've had that came out.

It's vital!

Jay: there's cats all
over the podcast today.

Emily: Yes, for sure.

Jay: if I'm still in the city in August,
I'll stop by FlameKahn to say hi.

Ben: yeah!

Yeah!

Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely.

That'd be awesome.

I'm not sure whether I'm doing New
York Comic Con this year or not.

That's always a

mid

Ben: believe Jeremy, you're gonna be
here at Flame Kahn too, so you can

See, uh, two thirds of, uh, the, uh,
Progressively Horrified Trio, and, I

don't know, maybe, we might be doing
something for Flametime, we'll see.

Emily: Someday I'll go to the East Coast.

Ben: Yes!

Come!

show you New York!

Hop on the magic carpet!

A whole new world!

Sparkling splendor!

Shimmer

It shimmers, too!

The splendor!

It shimmers!

Jeremy: So much splendor.

Emily: I'm splendid over here.

Jeremy: All right.

Ben: Hey, princess, get on the carpet!

I'm flyin ears!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Jeremy: That is, uh, it for us this week.

find the podcast, You know,
at, progressivelyhorrified.

transistor.

fm and wherever you download podcasts
please be sure to rate and review us

just so, uh, more people can find us.

Gotta fight those algorithms.

The more you rate and review
us, the more people find us.

so help us, beat the computers.

it's Terminator out here.

and until next time, y'all stay horrified.