The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (aka the Guy Fieri of Hannibals)

In 2022 some guy told three podcast hosts that The Texas Chainsaw Massacre was the best horror movie ever made. The next morning those podcast hosts were found irritated and incredulous. This is that story.

Alicia: Hey, just a heads up the
episode you're about to listen to

is about the Texas chainsaw massacre
directed by Toby Hooper and written

by Kim Henkel and Toby Hooper.

This episode includes descriptions
of cannibalism and gore, and our

hosts rank this movie as scary.

If you'd like to learn more
about the movie, discuss this

evening, please visit our website.

for show notes.

Transcripts and more.

After the spooky music, we'll
talk about the movie in full so be

forewarned, there will be spoilers.

Now let's get on with the show.

Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast

where we hold horror to progressive
standards that never agreed to.

Tonight: we're talking about a film whose
name is breathed with reverence in the

hohallowed hallways of horror films as
the scariest, most messed up horror film

ever made the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

I am the spooky narrator of your
morning commute, Jeremy Whitley.

And with me tonight, I have a
panel of cinephiles and cenobites.

First, they're here to challenge
the sexy werewolf/sexy vampire

binary, my co-host Ben Kahn.

Ben, how are you tonight?

Ben: You think they wrote
the screams into the script?

Cause that's like 60% of the movie
is just blood curdling screams.

Emily: Was there a script?

Jeremy: There must have been
pages and pages that were just

ah, ah, chainsaw chainsaw.


Ben: That's what I'm saying.

Jeremy: And also with us, the cinnamon bun
of cenobites, our co-host Emily Martin.

How are you tonight, Emily?

Emily: Yeah, I am wondering
if this movie had a script.

Jeremy: Nothing would surprise me.

Emily: Would it?

Jeremy: The first time I've saw this
movie I can say without a question, I came

away from this movie going, I hate this.

Why does everybody feel
strongly about this?

And I went back and
watched it again this time.

And I came away with a completely
different opinion, which is I hate

this and those people are wrong.

Ben: I feel like that one Treehouse
of horror where Bart hears like uh,

quoth the Raven nevermore and he's
just like, eh, I guess audiences

were scared more easily back then.

Cuz I now with my 2022 big brain
am watching this film going, oh,

you're not actually gonna show
her impaled on the meat hook?


Emily: I mean this is a student film.


I just.

Jeremy: You wanna come back
around to this opinion?

Til after we do the recap?

Emily: Yeah.

Let's come back around to this
opinion, cuz I can't remember.

Jeremy: It sounds like it's still cooking.

Emily: Yeah.

It's still in the oven.

Jeremy: All right.

So, before we do a whole big discussion
of the movie, I'm gonna do a quick recap

cuz I drew the short straw tonight.

So here it goes.

The basics of this movie: it
is directed by Tobe Hooper.

It is written by Tobe
Hooper and Kim Henkel.

It stars, Marilyn Burns, Edwin
Neal and Allen Danziger along with

about two or three other people.


Here's what happens in this movie.

We get an opening scroll that claims
the movie is based on a true story, even

though it is only really, really loosely
based on a couple of true stories,

including Ed Gein and Elmer Wayne Henley.

And they really just go with the parts
that they want to include from that.

This is followed by an extremely slow
and stretched out series of flash

photos in the dark of rotting mutilated
dead bodies followed by a very long

pan out of a group of bodies set up
like an art display and a newscast

about grave robbing and mutilation.

That's a thing that's happening
at the start of this movie.

Then there's a long shot of road killed
Armadillo as our character's van pulls

into the frame because symbolism.

So here we have our main
character's protagonists?

Question mark?

Of this movie.

We have Sally our heroine for some
reason, Jerry, her boyfriend, van driver,

and generally shitty person, Franklin,
her brother, he's in a wheelchair.

This film seems to have sympathy
for him, but not enough to give

him any actual character traits
other than being in a wheelchair.

He sure does have an accent though.

Pam is also here.

Her character trait is that the
camera can't stop staring directly at

her ass throughout the entire film.

And then there's her boyfriend
Kirk, who's possibly the dumbest

motherfucker in existence.

We then have a whole scene on this
group piling out of the car so

Franklin, who is in a wheelchair, can
piss in a coffee can on the roadside.

I don't know why Franklin couldn't
piss in a coffee can inside the van,

but really the answer to that is that
so we can have a scene where a semi

splatters him with mud, and then he
rolls down a hill and is humiliated

in front of the rest of his friends.

This scene will never come
up again and never matter.

It's just there to humiliate
the guy in the wheelchair.

They then get back in the van,
presumably because we get a cut

and then they're back in the van.

They pass a graveyard mentioned
in the reports and it seems, from

the delivery, to occur to salary.


To Sally at the moment that they are
passing this, that her grandfather

was buried there and she should check
and see if his grave was fucked with.

We get no resolution on this, just a
bunch of long shots of local yokels.

And then they get back
in the van and continue.

They're proceeding to who the fuck
knows where for who the fuck knows

why until there is a horrible smell
of a slaughter house, and they

decide to pick up a hitchhiker who
was obviously a serial killer in the

most, most obvious, possible way.

Everything about this guy is
like he's dressed in red flags.

This guy must be great at parties
because he carries a pouch full of

pictures, of slaughtered cattle.

Like he worked for goddamn PETA and loves
to do a fun trick where he grievously

cuts a wound into his own hand.

He even takes a bad picture of
Franklin with no prompting and then

Franklin doesn't wanna pay for it so
he uh, burns it in the middle of the

van, sets a fire in the middle of
the van and then cuts Franklin with

his straight razor before they kick
him out for God knows what reason?

I mean, who doesn't do those
things when they get invited

into a van after hitchhiking?

But not before he marks the side to the
band with his blood and blows several

nuclear raspberries, which is the biggest
fucking insult possible in this movie.

No curse words.

Just long, long sustained raspberries.

Ben: Can't I had that in my notes.

I had the raspberries.

Jeremy: It's time for the inevitable
horror movie, stop at a gas station,

which has no gas and unhelpful old man
and several low angle shots of girls'

asses while they buy Cokes from a machine.


Fuck you.

That's why.

A disabled employee washes the
windshield of the car, but not the

obviously bloody side panel of the car.

We've learned from Franklin that the old
house that was that their grandfather

used to live in is out here somewhere.

But he has to ask the old man to
tell him how to get there, letting

everybody know where they're going.

Now, this is the point where
the real question comes to me.

Where the fuck are they going?

Because we don't know.

Like all the descriptions say that they
went to the graveyard to check on the

grandfather's grave or that they were
going to check on this old homestead.

They don't have a reason to be
at the homestead and they only

stopped there because they stopped
to get gas and there was no gas.

And the graveyard seems to
be an afterthought and they

say that they're going pass.

Like later on, they'll say that they're
gonna pass by this place coming back.

Where are they going?

We don't know.

It doesn't matter.

The movie doesn't care.

Uh, They pull up to this very
abandoned house that you definitely

shouldn't stay at for any reason
because several of the walls are

missing and there are just clumps.


Of spiders.

I guess they're going to anyway.

They abandon Franklin outside in
the overgrown yard in a wheelchair

because he wanted to wash the blood
off the side of the van before going

inside cause it seemed like this crazy
dude marked the side of their van.

Franklin seems to be the only one
who notices all the decorations

made of blood and bone and fur
that have been left around here.

But it's a horror movie and there
aren't any good places to fuck.

So what can Pam and Kirk possibly
do, but decide to go swimming?

However, since West Texas is hell on
earth, there's no water left in the

watering hole, but they do notice
that there's another house nearby

with a gas motor running outside.

So they're gonna go ask for gas.

Kirk and Pam are the dumbest
motherfuckers in the history because

there are a dozen abandoned cars a
hidden from overhead view under a

tarp that doesn't seem weird to them.

So they go up onto the porch where
Kirk finds a human molar loose on

the porch and thinks that the best
possible response to this is to put

it on his girlfriend as a fun prank.

She waits outside while
he decides to go in.

He finds the place full of animal
bones and other weird shit and decides,

hey, whatever, let's keep going.

He thinks he hears someone moving
around and making loud pig noises.

So he follows that and trips and
lands right in front of the man with

a mask made of human skin, wearing
a woman's wig who, bursts his head

with a hammer in one single swing.

And here he is, Leatherface.

Kirk is already dead.

God rest his soul.

The camera, meanwhile has spent its
time outside finding Pam's ass again and

sticks to it like it's glued there and
follows her inside in what's supposed

to be a great cinematic tracking shot
of like that influenced generations.

It's a fun tracking shot.

For some reason, it's framed by her ass.

She then finds a room chockablock
with bones and feathers.

So she decides to swim around in
the feathers some before screaming

as loud as possible while she
runs around in this strange house.

One of the most genuinely scary
things in movie happens as she fights

like a motherfucker to get away from
Leatherface who just picks her up and

lugs her back in the house and then
sticks her on a meat hook while he cuts

up some Kirk filets with the chainsaw.

Meanwhile, back at the house, Franklin is
looking for his knife, but can't find it.

And Jerry is a- the absolute fucking
worst human being as he continues to

tell Franklin, The Hitchhiker is tracking
him and going to kill him as a joke.

Jerry then wanders off finds
the same, obviously fucking

horrifying house and wanders in.

He finds Pam in the freezer, which alerts
Leatherface, who hammers him to death.

And then seems genuinely upset that
these teens just won't stop wandering

to his house to get killed so he can
get some goddamn work done, which is

the most relatable thing in this movie.

Sally and Franklin, meanwhile
are bent out of shape that

they're not getting murdered.

So they start banging on the horn in
the van and shouting as loud as possible

so that they can find these people
before they just decide to go wandering

off into the middle of the dark woods.

They have a fight over whether they
should wander off into the dark woods

or get in the van and go somewhere.

Eventually they send a settle
on wandering around in the

dark with a bright flashlight.

Leatherface, meanwhile, jumps out and
artistically chainsaws, Franklin and

Sally runs as fast as I've ever seen
a human being run in a horror movie.

She is running like hell.

That is the one thing I will
give the acting in this movie.

The two female leads in this movie
genuinely seem to be scared as

fuck of this dude with a chainsaw.

They do not seem to be able to run
as fast as he does because he is

just finding business to do in the
background while he's chasing them.

A lot of the dialogue and delivery
in this movie is really, really

garbage, but both Pam and Sally are
amazing at screaming and running.

While they're trying to get a rectal
exam from a chainsaw, Sally has the

longest running scene that you will
ever see outside of a Benny Hill show.

She runs all the way back to the massacre
house up the stairs, through the attic,

finds the seemingly dead and preserved
grandparents jumps through a second story

window to get away from Leatherface,
not out, through, runs back into the

woods, doubles back again, and then
runs all the way to the gas station.

The gas man soothes her and tells her
that there's no one else out there.

So he's going to go get his truck
so he can get her out of here.

She ominously stares at the smoking
meat in the special barbecue

before he returns with a burlap
sack and a rope to tie her up.

She wields a knife at him, which he
easily disarms her with, with a broom,

and then knocks her out with a broom,
tying her up and tossing her in the

car where he continues to prod her
while delivering very uncomfortable

comfort, comforting dialogue.

And just having a general chat with
this girl that he has in a bag.

In the driveway of the massacre
house, we meet The Hitchhiker again.

He's part of the same family
as the gas man and Leatherface.

And they're gonna have a fun dinner.

They bring grandpa down, who it turns out
is still alive, despite looking very much

dead and wearing the face of a dead man.

He's just wearing a lot
of dead people's skin.

They then cut Sally's finger and
have grandpa suck on the blood,

which is maybe the most unsettling
thing that happens in this movie.

It was definitely the part
where Alicia tapped out.

Sally passes out and wakes
up in the middle of dinner.

Uh, The Hitchhiker and Leatherface
are having fun tormenting her

while Tobe Hooper really wants us
to look at her eyes and hear some

really discordant background noise.

It's a soundtrack equivalent
of subtext is for cowards.

Guys really want grandpa to do the
killing because he used to be a great

cattle killer back in the day when
the slaughterhouse was still open.

So they keep putting the hammer in his
hand and he keeps trying to hit her

in the head, not really succeeding.

It works a little bit, but she ends
up escaping her bonds and takes a

runner, even though she's injured,
The Hitchhiker follows her, taunting

her the whole way, but the Leatherface
has to stop and get his accessory.

The Hitchhiker taunts her all the
way to the road where he is suddenly

and abruptly hit by a semi truck.

The black truck driver jumps out
to see uh, what he can do to help

and then immediately jumps right
back in when he sees the white boy

with the chainsaw running at him.

All I can figure is they weren't actually
allowed to like chainsaw into the side

of this truck because they all seem
to be very scared of him doing a dance

with a chainsaw next to the truck.

So they all pile out the other
side of the truck and start running

away with Leatherface chasing them.

Sally jumps in the tr- the pickup
truck of a driver who hauls as out of

town as she descends into desperate
maniacal after, and probably the

best acting choice in this movie.

And I guess that black truck driver is
still running down the road somewhere to

this very day cuz we get no resolution on
him and this white guy driving the pickup

does not turn around to go help him out.

And that is the end of the
Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Ben: This truck driver, while being the
only person of color in the movie also

has the name black Maria just like bigly,
like big painted on the side of his truck.


So the movie really
just, you can't miss it.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Emily: The Leatherface does draw
some scratches into the door

of the truck, which is yeah.

A choice.

Ben: It looks like so
nothing, they can't puff out.

Like that was the rule I was like, yeah.

Leatherface does.

No, you're right.

A lot of it definitely reads that
way, that like this reads as like,

look, we can borrow somebody's truck.

Like somebody's uncle is a trucker
and we can borrow this truck.

We can't fuck it up.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: He is very clearly not
chainsawed through the door.

Emily: Yeah, he's just
doing like a little dance.

Ben: Also.

Jeremy, I like how you say the movie
seems to have sympathy for Franklin

when the movie very clearly has
no fucking sympathy for Franklin.

Well, it's like this movie has
sympathy for Franklin, which is why

it starts with a scene where a man
in a wheelchair loses control, rolls,

downhill falls into a bucket of his own
pee and then, just for good measure,

the wheelchair then crashes into him.

Jeremy: Yeah.

It's like.

There are several scenes that they seem to
be aimed at going, isn't it horrible the

way people treat people in wheelchairs?

But then has no sort of resolution
or forward motion with that at all.

They're just like, and it keeps happening.

Let's keep showing bad things
happen to the guy in a wheelchair.

Ben: Why like of all the tropes
that caught on and then like

final girls, disabled brother
did not become a recurring trope.

Emily: I do think that they did
make a point to show him as being

a pain in the ass to everybody else
they still treated him like shit.

And that was pretty obvious.

They didn't really give him any
other redeeming qualities other

than he was just the one that
everyone beat up on, you know?

And therefore we're like,
okay, well this is obviously-

Ben: They even throw in-

Emily: fucked, fucked up.

Ben: They even throw a little fat phobia
his way just for your shits and giggles.

Emily: Oh.


No, the whole situation sucks so hard.

The way that he's depicted the
delivery that he has and how he's

like everyone considers him a joke
and then they all leave him by

himself in the middle of nowhere.

Jeremy: Franklin really bothers me in a
way that like having a disabled character

in a movie, can be good, can be important.

But the thing about Franklin is
that his disability is disability.

Like he is in a wheelchair.

We don't know why we don't have to know
why, but in addition to that, he also

has an, a strange accent and way of
talking that nobody else in the movie has.

He appears to not be.

Ben: I worried that this movie
does not fully understand physical

disabilities versus mental disabilities.


He just, well, yeah,

Jeremy: None of the many things that he
exhibits are signs of the same disability.

Ben: Cause the, the most background
we're given is just exact quote

Sally and her invalid brother.


End quote, that's it.

Emily: And I mean, that's just the long
and the short of how much we're supposed

to give a shit about that guy is because
they mention him in the title crawl.

That's it.

And then, I mean, everybody sucks.

Everybody sucks in this movie.

Everyone's an asshole.

Sally is kind of an asshole just
for not sticking up for her brother.

And then like, nobody gets
along with each other.

Nobody really knows why they're there.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Let me ask you this.

Like, I, I ranted about this in the thing.

Do you know where the
fuck they were going?

Ben: On a trip.

I mean, which again, it seemed to
me that the, their goal for the trip

was we're gonna check to see if our
grandpa's corpse got fucked with.

And then like, one of them got out of the
van, talked with a town official, which

was like, eh, looks fine enough, I guess.

And then they were like, by the
way, our grandpa's house is nearby.

Nobody lives there anymore.

Like, no, there's no point
like it's so fuzzy faced out.

It's like, again, this whole grave
robbing thing, which ostensibly kicks

off the plot is also this completely
inconsequential afterthought.

Other than, I guess we're supposed
to assume it's The Hitchhiker

who is doing it because he's
admonished for causing attention.

And also, I guess it's where we get
that totally sweet skeleton couch.


I think like couch is metal as fuck.

It's all admitted.

That's what I meant.

That's a great fucking couch.

Emily: The decor in the house, is a sty.

Like all of the chicken feathers
and, bird shit everywhere.

Like you would think that the
smell of chicken shit and feathers

everywhere would be like there,
if they can smell the salt anyway.

Could we talk about other
than the down floor?

The interior of that house is
just like typical west Sonoma

county, like arts-and-craft's house
with a bunch of bones and shit.

Ben: This is where me being a dirty new
England Yankee, like comes into play.

I look at that house and I'm like, Hey,
is the red painted skull room, a red flag?

Or is this just something
houses have in Texas?

Emily: I mean it can.

Ben: I didn't see it in king of any
King of the Hill episodes, but that

doesn't mean they're not there.

Jeremy: And how often do they
really go into Dale's house

in King of the Hill though?

Emily: Right?

Yeah, I think that the skull
room, the skull, everything is,

like all meant to be red flags.

Jeremy: All of the art made of human
bodies and various other animals is bad

enough, but like literally the point
where, Kirk and Pam find all of those

abandoned cars covered by like a tarp, the
type of tarp that is designed to disguise

things from being seen from overhead.

Like that is meant to
look like it's grass?

What the fuck?

At that point I'm done.

Like, I'm like, oh, clearly they
have more cars than this house needs.

And they're just abandoned out here and
covered up so that people don't see them.

Ben: Well, can we appreciate that
this family only succeeds in killing

people because they are dumb as fuck.

Like they keep implying that they're
doing things that are a plan, but

none of them make any sense or it's
like, oh, this one marks the van,

but nobody tracks or follows the van.

Oh, well this one like
lies about the fuel.

They keep them there, but
they just leave anyway.

Jeremy: He's, here's my thing.

Here's why it falls apart for me because
here's what theoretically happens.


Is The Hitchhiker marks the van.

And then his brother, who is
the guy at the gas station, who

knows if they have gas or not.

He was like, oh no, we don't have gas.

You gotta go.

You gotta stay around here somewhere.

So you know that they can be killed.

And we decided to go up to
the old homestead house,

which like he knows where-

Ben: Well that's where
they were already going!

Jeremy: To follow him.


Ben: They were trying to get gas to
reach the homestead, which then made

me question, wait a fucking minute.

How close is the homestead to this
gas station that apparently only

took her two minutes to run to that.

Jeremy: Apparently.

Ben: What the fuck is going on?

Jeremy: There's windy road back,
but like running very, through

Emily: as the crow flies.

Jeremy: Through the brambles.

It's very easy.

Ben: But like, oh, that poor
actress that must have sucked.

Like that was so many brambles.

She had to run through.

Jeremy: She, yeah, she cut
herself up pretty bad doing this.

Ben: Like at least Leatherface had like
full face mask to help with the branches.

Like she just must have been
like, oh, just scratched and cut

city after filming this movie.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And I think the thing that's wild
to me about this plot is like,

all right, they've set this up.

But nobody goes to the house to kill them.

They just slowly wander into Leatherface's
house one at a time and get murdered.

Emily: Yeah!


Jeremy: Leatherface seems
distressed by the situation.

Ben: Yeah.

I needed like a loony tunes.

Mallet sound going off like, like
birdies flying around their heads.

Like also just from a pacing
standpoint, this is a movie

with five real like protagonist
four victims in one final girl.

Three of whom die in like an eight
minute timeframe in this movie.

Emily: Because they walk into Leatherface.

They basically run into Leatherface
and they're like, oh, sorry.

And he's like smack,
smack, smack your dead.

Ben: I love, at least Pam-

Jeremy: After he kills the second guy,
Leatherface seems genuinely upset.

He's looking around for more people.

He's like, where do they keep coming from?


Why do I keep having to kill these people?

Ben: Like at least Pam got
like a real death scene.

Like we're following,
we're following her ass.

Like we're getting creepy locations.

There's tension.

It's drawn out the struggle,
like creative, like gory depths

with like the meat hook and
making her watch the chainsaw.

Like that scene is very effective.

Kirk and Jerry just fucking walk into a
house and then got bunked on the head.

It's fucking hilarious.

Emily: I will say that this is one
of the few movies, few slasher movies

I've ever seen, where someone is
killed and actually like flips out and

or someone is like hit on the head.

And then there has the sort of muscle
spasm thing going on, which I think

is act is unusual and generally scary.

Like I thought that was upsetting
enough for a horror movie.

Ben: I think it would've been scary
if it had been, like, I don't know if

Leatherface had been built up to it all,
if it had been like, yeah, a close up.

If we, again, if there had been
real tension built, instead of just

look at this dumb motherfucker, walk
through a hallway very far, like

it's a pretty far distance shot, so
you're very far away from the action.

And then Leatherface just up
appears and within like two seconds

of him appearing on screen for
the first time, he's just Bon.

Like it's, it happens.

It should be scary, but it just happens
so fast that I couldn't help, but laugh.

Emily: Oh.

I mean like-

Jeremy: Kirk, literally

Emily: the initial falls

Jeremy: at his feet, yeah.

Kirk falls down on his own and
then is hit with the hammer

as he tries to get back up.

Emily: Yeah.

The, that like most of Leatherface
bonking people on the head

is actually pretty funny.

And like the only thing that makes
it less funny is like the twitching

muscles and the chaos that's happening.

Ben: I like the twitching muscles and
that it at least justifies that really

drawn out detailed conversation about how
cows die in slaughterhouse is where I'm

like, oh, we're get, at least there was
a narrative point to that conversation.


Other than just being weird and terrible.

Emily: Yeah.

Like that was one of the also
few thematic through lines.

Ben: I don't know my history very well.

Did this movie ruin hitchhiking was
hitchhiking like a thing people did.

And then this movie came out
and they're like, ah, we're

not doing fucking hitchhiking.

Jeremy: Apparently, apparently the
Texas highway patrol was very happy

with Tobe Hooper for this movie because
apparently it's like crime went down

because of people not picking up
hitchhiker after this movie came out.

Ben: That is a true public
good that this movie did.

Thank you, Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Emily: I mean, it was happening a lot
still and through, into the eighties.

Ben: I know, but I love that a movie
that everyone thought was like evil,

satanic and will cause violence
is instead directly attributable

to a noticeable decrease in crime.

Emily: Sometimes these horror
elements do cause awareness.

This was what, a happy accident for that
because else was not a happy accident.

Ben: Silence of the
lambs came out in 1991.

I haven't heard a single case of
a psychiatrist eating a patient

since just thrown it out there.

Emily: I haven't heard
about one before that.

Ben: Well, how about that
doesn't prove my point.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Can we like, I, I think one of the, one of
the points that I find about people that

are excited about this movie, I love this
movie is the inventive cinematography.

Guys, I don't...

there's some good shots in here.

Ben: Maybe again I don't know
what the state of slashers

or low budget horror was.

Pre 1974, but I gotta tell you, I was
having a lot of Friday the 13th part

one, like flashbacks watching this movie.


I mean, we're,

Jeremy: you know, we're a couple
years before Halloween at this point.

Ben: Yeah.

Like we don't even have Halloween to
work off of and holy shit, do I not care

about any of the characters in the way,
way in particular, even Sally is nothing.

Sally is just, Sally is a holy shit.

Can she scream?

And she can jump through a
window like a fucking champ.

Those are honestly the main two
personality traits I have for Sally.

I think

Jeremy: you could teach a class on Pam
and the difference between a character

being sexy and being sexualized mm-hmm
because the way that this camera frames

around her ass in scenes is ridiculous.

Like this tracking shot going up to the
house is a nice tracking shot, but it

is for no reason shot like framing her.

Very deliberately.

And this is something that like, they've
that Marilyn McMann, the actress has

talked about in movies and, or in
interviews and how, like, when they

were setting up for this shot, they
like got the cinematographer basic or

the 80 under the swing that she's in.

And then like, we're set up
to track her as she walked in.

And she was like, wait, that camera's
gonna be like 14 inches from my ass.

I don't want to do that.

And basically Tobe Hooper told
her to uh, Shut up and do it.

And that they would just shoot around it.

And then she didn't actually get to
see the final result of this shot

until she paid her own money to go see
this movie after it came out, we're

not even talking about like beforehand
and it just didn't get changed.

Ben: Like that has big, I
had to buy a copy of my own

comic at a bookstore energy.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And that's, I mean, that's, that is one
of a long list of things that bother

me about the making of this movie,
which like it's an indie film, right?

People work long hours voluntarily.

They're just trying to get a break, but
this film was filmed in 16 hour days.

It was filmed seven days a week.

It was 120 degrees outside when they
were filming some of these scenes,

Marilyn McMann was paid $700 to play Pam.

Several people passed out while making
this movie, Edwin Neal said filming.

This was a worse experience
than serving in Vietnam.

Holy shit.

Which he did

Ben: That is quite

Jeremy: the comparison.

He also says that if he ever saw
Tobe Hooper again in li in real life,

that he would beat his ass because
of the way that this went down.


Ben: Yeah.

Jeremy: God like Marilyn McMann
literally quit acting because of the

way that this all went down and like.

I don't know, like we wanna, there's all
of these stories about this scene in the

house at the end, this dinner scene is one
of the most notorious things in cinema.

Not just because of the way the
film plays it out, but because

the the old man the man at the
gas station, the third brother is.

He's in old man makeup, which
apparently took a long fucking

time to put on why he's a pain.

So he said he never
wanted to put it on again.

So they decided that that meant that
they needed to film all of his scenes.

So they worked on filming scenes with
him and them for 36 hours straight.

This is Christ.

Ben: Good, good God walk again.

Jeremy: By the time why they're
shooting the scene in the

house, it is daytime outside.

So they had to put blackout
curtains on there so that you

couldn't see the daytime outside.

It's 120 degrees in the house.

The food was actively roting.

It was so hot in the house.

People were passing out like it was,
they, the guy who played Leatherface

was talking about how, like he had
moments of not knowing if he was

him or if he was his character which

Ben: is, that's not a character
you wanna get lost in.


That is not a character.

You do not want a method
act, leather phase.

Jeremy: And the wildest
thing about this movie.

Those are all abuses of people
making this movie that I don't think

should be overlooked, but the wildest
craziest thing about this movie is

it's distributed by a company initially
called Bryanston distribution company,

which turned out to be a mafia front.

And it lied to the creators about how
much the movie made because they were

using it to Mon money launder profits
from the pornographic film, deep throat.


Ben: for which no notes, 10 outta

Jeremy: 10, for which people were
being arrested for indecency charges.

And nobody knew how well the film
had actually done until the FBI

busted this other company Brianon
distribution and new line eventually

came in and picked up the rights and
had to settle accounts with everybody.

I wish it

Ben: had been the FBI like FBI forensic
accounting had to figure out the exact

box office of Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

and on top of that to someone
saying like, I fucking went through

trying get Quantico for this shit

Jeremy: yeah.

And, and on top of all of that, like deep
throat itself had enough weird shit going

on around it, that they made a whole
movie about the making of deep throat.

Which is, if you don't know the
pot of deep throat, it is a, it

is having looked all of this up.

It is about a woman who goes to a
doctor because she is unsatisfied

with her already wild sex life.

But does not seem to be getting
the joy from it that she wants to

uh, which the doctor discovers that
her clitoris is in the wrong place.

It's not where it should be, but instead
it's in the black back of her throat.

So she has to uh, de
throat men in order to.

Hi for clitoris stimulated.

Uh, Also

Ben: importantly, this movie came
out during the window of history

that was closed almost as soon as it
was opened, where a porno movie was

played in just a regular old theater.

You could go see, I don't know, whatever
the 1970s version of the S SMUs two

was and deep throat would belying.

Emily: Well, I think that at the S SMUs
two, that was a Ralph boxy production.

So it's probably double
featured with the deep throat.

Fun fact.

My folks never let me watch the
S Smurfs when I was younger and I

thought, or deep, well, no, I, yeah,
like I will say I need, I mean, I've,

I've watched a lot of crazy shit.

I've never seen deep throat.

I've only familiar with
it because of the XFiles.

And the

Ben: and the Watergate.


Emily: yeah, but like when I was little, I
was not like when I was in middle school,

I wasn't giving any shits about Watergate.

I was like, I learned about
Watergate because of the XFiles and

then it became interesting to me.


Ben: anyway, that's the
beauty of edutainment folks.

Emily: Hell yeah.

I mean, and the internet was
barely there, but like okay.

Jeremy: Who cares about
Nixon when you have Gillian

Anderson and blazers, you know?

Emily: Yeah.

And David Duchovny.

My awakening.

Both of them fantastic.

10 outta 10.

Yeah, I didn't know that that was the
plot to deep throat, but yeah, let me

finish my story about the S Smurfs.

I found out


Emily: I thought that there was something
sinister going on with the Smurfs.

And then I found out later on that my
parents just thought it was B it was dumb.

Ben: Just wanted to spare
you from a bad show.


Can we talk about that?

Weirdly cheery music that plays while The
Hitchhiker cuts his own hand, why did they

play such cheery music during that scene?

Emily: I don't know, but I know like
when I watched last house on the left,

I also noticed that these seventies
horror movies with a lot of exploitation

and really fucked up shit going on
with no real rhyme or reason, just like

here's some fucked up shit happening.

Had a lot of like upbeat
seventies folk rock.

In fact, it's so strange.

The main character or no,
not the main character.

The main antagonist of last house
on the left has, and like the

soundtrack has a song about him.

Like, and it's like the fucking
Robin hood Disney movie, atlanta

Dale song was like crew, get his
buddies where going to the store and

they found a lady and brought him.

I mean, her either way into their band.

I'm like,

I don't

Ben: know.

I, what I wonder is, do we think we can
get Ikea to sell the skeleton couch?

It's can we make that happen?

How much assembly, how much of
this home decor can we get Ikea?

I bet you, they would sell like the skull
with the bone going through the eyeball.

Emily: I think that's like more of a
local Ikea situation in Sweden, but

Ben: maybe this is way about, more
about me, but I was definitely way more

bothered by the, to shell than they,
than I was like all the other corpse art.

I was like, yeah, whatever
Hannibal people turned into arts

and crafts been there, done that.


But not a turtle.

You leave the turtles

outta this Leatherface.

Emily: I mean, there was every
animal, every, every sort of

fauna was represented there.

I don't know if the, the animal newspaper,
I mean, not newspaper wallpaper.

This movie has made me

Ben: feel.

You do gotta love face of
these absolutely dummy shit.

Kids walking around this house being
like, oh, bag of bones on the floor.

No follow up questions.

Emily: I mean, you're out
in the middle of nowhere.

You'll find weird shit.

That's part of the fun of it.

He just like after dark you're
like, I'm gonna go home.

That was cool.

Took a picture.

Gonna go home.

Now the The Hitchhiker I'm
totally changing subject here.

The Hitchhiker also bad
representation cuz they.

They were doing something with
him to make him seem strange.

And there was a lot of like
non-specific ableism there.

Especially since he had like the
birth market, everything, I mean,

he was, he was pretty like vilified
for just being weird and looking


Ben: This end between this
and the Hills have eyes.

You sure did a number for
just the, like the country's

perception of the rural south

Jeremy: and the fucking disabled, yeah.

Ben: Disabled, like

Jeremy: the way that people talk
about leather phase in interviews

about this movie really bothers
me because they're like, oh, he is

nonverbal he's very unintelligent.

He doesn't know what he is doing.

He's only doing these things
because of his family.

And on top of that, that like, they're
modeling some stuff after Ed Gein mm-hmm

and like, there's plenty of things that
they could leave out and that they do

leave out about Ed Gein and about other
people they're sort of modeling this on.

They really decide that they want to keep
man who dresses like his mother or man who

dresses like a woman as part of this thing
and disability as part of this thing.


And this movie is responsible in
no small part for the way that we

view those things culturally, the
way that a lot of people like treat

Ben: this, the legacy
of psycho strikes again.



Jeremy: Ed Gein.

So yeah.

Ben: Ed, the legacy of Ed Gein.


Emily: Cuz he, he inspired psycho.

He inspired chance, Texas chainsaw, Massa.

He inspired red dragon.

And uh, silence of God

Ben: damn.

Emily: Um, And like you said, Jeremy,
it's they are very deliberate about what

they choose from these real life models.

Although one thing that I found was
really interesting is that this The

Hitchhiker in this movie really reminds
me of Richard Chase, the vampire of

Sacramento, like down to his, just
weird movement in his look, predates

Richard Chase by a couple of years.

Ben: I mean, this hitchhiker we've got
just more ableism, like there's clearly

like elements of schizophrenia that
I think they're trying to hearken to.


They give him a very large noticeable
birthmark just for a little more

like don't trust people that have
Def like any kind of deformity,

like they're inherently bad.

You know, just furthering that
message, that movies just love to

keep sending, like this movie already
has so much ableism with Franklin and

then this hitchhiker is just like,
how about we just throw some more

and different kinds of ableism at

Emily: ya.


and Leatherface too.

Ben: Yeah.

Like just a whole stew.


Emily: And I mean, I don't know
if they're trying to also imply in

breeding with the being the rural
Texas in the middle of nowhere.

I don't know.


Ben: think that's definitely, I think
that's a little more the Hills have eyes.


I, we get no indication that there
are any women relatives in this movie,

Jeremy: this family, grandma, she
is, she even was pretty dead up

there, but grandma's even pretty dead
before they wheeled him down too.

Ben: So, well, yeah, I did love like
Sally, like asking for help for what

looked like or clearly corpses, but
apparently not a corpse and also worse.


Emily: Like, I don't know if that
was supposed to be supernatural.

Like if you were supposed to be a
zombie or something, cuz that was

really like, I don't even know.


Ben: when it was, I thought
they were like, oh, you're

pretending like grandpa's alive.

And then like I started
hearing sucking noises.

That was, I was like, okay, this
is legitimately disturbing me.

This is, this is fucked up.

Emily: That was really weird.

I mean, the weirdness of that scene, I
can see that being really significant

to people, looking at it now, it
doesn't seem like that it's, it would

stand out so much, but, you know,
again, the context is what it is.

I do wish we could talk to somebody.

I mean, if we wanna do we're, I'm
open to anyone coming in and saying,

especially, those people that we've had
as guests or wanna be guests or whatever.

I would really love to hear what you
like about the movie, because I I'm not

quite as upset about it as Jeremy is,
but I agree with you, Jeremy, about a

lot of the points that you may hear.

Jeremy: I feel like my,

my first viewing of it, my response was.

That's it, it, it it's that.

Yeah, there's a lot of like horror movies
that people ran and rave about that.

Like I watch and I just feel
like, I just feel like that same

gift from arrested development.

Just that her, you know, like, that's,
this is the movie, this is the one

you love and care about so much.

And then this time I feel like I,
I had seen the movie, I knew what

it was, and I really had time to
focus on what I hated about it.

Ben: Well, I don't feel like
this movie excels at either

the heroes or the villains.

Like, look, I know the horror slasher
movies aren't really has to have

much more in the way of protagonists,
but God like the friends were.

Especially forgettable and undefined.

Like I think the character that has the
most lines and is like fleshed out the

most is Franklin who is treated as a
very annoying burden and is killed off

less than halfway through the movie.

There are whole scenes of Franklin
and Sally just talking and I'm

learning nothing about them or their
relationship or in history with one

Jeremy: another, even
though Franklin has an

exposition machine.


He's just like, did you
know about our uncle?

Did you know about our grandfather
who did this thing and worked

out here and this was his thing.

And I feel like one of the things
that really bothers me about this

movie and, and you're talking about
how like forgettable, the guys are,

especially the thing with this movie
that bothers me is how quickly the

guys die as compared to the women.

And it's not that the women are more
successful at fighting or getting

away or anything other than Sally.

Who you know, is
questionably better at it?


Ben: yeah.

That way only gets away because of
their insane insistence on let's

make our undead, our barely alive
or barely dead grandpa do it.

Even though he's dropped it
like nine times, let's just

keep putting it in her hands.

Like it got comical every time
it just fell out of his hands.

Like it goes on so long.

It's not like, they're
like, oh, we'll have a goof.

And in that like one little bit of
time they give her, she gets away.

Like they give her like, 10 minutes
or something like to get away, I

would argue how long they just,
the only reason fucking putting

Jeremy: the hammer in his hand,
the only reason Sally survives is

she has zero reverence for windows.

She just she's to fuck windows.


Ben: just- Oh yeah!

- Sally, just Jackie Chan out that house.

And it's great.

Emily: Yeah.

She's very decisive about the window.

She's like, you know what?

Jeremy: She goes out a second story window
when she's running from Leatherface.

And then when she's running from
them all at the edge, she goes D

straight through another window.

When I

Ben: say that the overwhelming
majority of Sally's lines are

just blood curing screams.

I'm not exaggerating yeah, we
saw, we use the term scream queen.

There is nothing but screams like to
Sally, like I've legitimately never seen

a movie where so much of the do where so
much of the run time is people running,

screaming or screaming while running.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And they, they shoot.

The women as if their sides of
beef up until the point that

it's time for them to be tortured

Ben: literally on a meat hook.



Jeremy: then they like spend long periods
of time with us, like watching women being

tortured, especially Sally, especially in
that dinner scene where there's just so

many shots and so much time spent with.

Watching her knowing that she's
going to die and be tortured

by these, you know, assholes.

they just stay with it for so long,
which they have no interest in doing

for the guys, guys, dead gone women.

Like they really want to focus on
them being tortured like Franklin,

and then they play this, whatever
is on the soundtrack of this movie.

It's, it's things that are
not musical instruments.

, banging around it.

It sounds like somebody hired
somebody to like, just take a pair

of symbols and smash them against
everything in a room for a while.

And then they just put that in
the background of the movie, which

is like, it's supposed to be,
it's supposed to be discordant.

It's supposed to make
us feel uncomfortable.

Alfred Hitchcock put fucking bees under
the sounds in movies so that you would

be tense, but this is just like, Yeah.

Like I said, it's the it's the subtext
is for coward's version of that.

It's like, what if it were extremely
fucking hard to watch this movie?

Cuz it's loud.

Ben: Yeah.

Or just like endless way going on for way
too long, extremely rapid like cuts and

closeups of her screaming and her eyeball
just screaming and eyeball closeups.

Emily: Like those were good shots.

I thought that was effective.

I mean,

Jeremy: in terms put camera at
that point then like getting a

shot that close in the seventies
was pretty difficult, especially.

Ben: Yeah.

That's the thing I'm just imagining
how much time they had to spend.

Just like how, like how
did they get that shot?

Like what was that looking
like from four feet away?

Just her screaming, bloody murder
while a camera man just waves a camera

like centimeters away from her face.

And they

Jeremy: were talking about the scene
in the van with The Hitchhiker and

how there's six people on camera,
plus two people on the camera crew in

that van shooting those scenes in the
middle of the day into Texas heat.

And I'm just like, guys, like, it's
gotta be a better way to do this

than actually torturing your actors.


And it's no coincidence a lot

Ben: have to actually be in Texas.

Jeremy: Yeah.

There's no coincidence.

A lot of people in this movie just
stop acting after this movie comes out.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, and that's another lesson
to take from the film that I think

that, you know, hopefully I assume
some people took from this film,

if not from other similar disaster
productions, which is the necessity

for organizing a shoot like this.

Cuz it sounds like there was, I mean,
I haven't done the research Jeremy,

from what you're telling me, it
sounds like it was not very organized.

At all.

And if you're running 16 hour
days in 120 degree weather,

it's definitely not organized.

You don't have anybody who's like
thinking of atmosphere or, you know, like

where are they getting the electricity
for all of the, the cameras and shit.

Like probably they have a generator too.

Ben: Yeah.

I assumed, I assumed that was the actual
generator they were using during the film.


And they're like, well,
we've already got it.

So let's just use it on the movie.

And once you call smart, we can
write it off to taxes twice.

Emily: I mean, what was
the production company?


Ben: Brian's Brian's.

Look, I'm sure there are things on cooking
shows less cooked than these books.


Emily: It's funny, Jeremy, when,
when reading over your recap here

I really enjoy the care that you
put into it because I would've

recapped it as some kids go into
the countryside and get killed.

There's not a lot happening in this movie.

And if the more you look into it,
the more problematic it gets, it

Ben: does not hold up.

Well, I was looking at the reception.

It's like a movie that allowed complex
themes to be explored in horror of films.

What the fuck are you talking about?

What complex themes are in this film?

Jeremy: The essays that have been
written on this movie and how like

this, like postindustrial America is
being explored for the first time.

And we're seeing this people who
have been laid off from the plant

where they used to kill cows.

And now they're turning those
murderous impulses elsewhere.

I'm just like,


Emily: that's I mean, I know
this is a movie, but that

does sound like projection.

Jeremy: There's a lot of people that
are like, who knows how much of it

Toby Hoover meant to put in there.

And I'm like, none of

Ben: it.


I'm like, if you don't like this, I see
myself in this family of redneck of like

really stereotypical redneck cannibals.

I've got more questions
for you than the movie.


Emily: The, the newscasts
that are involved.

Ben: I was definitely wondering,
I had questions about the newscast

where they're like, there was a
blackout at a sports game and a man

kinda like jumped off a building.

I'm like, is that gonna be relevant?

Or is that just some fucked up
shit you decide to throw at us?

Emily: Yeah, I think that the sports
or the the newscast were there to just

solidify the point that shit's fucked up

Jeremy: the wildest thing.

That's a ridiculous term
to use at this point.

another funny thing about this movie
to me the opening scroll is delivered

by the one and only John Larroquette
who was apparently paid for the job

of reading this scroll with a blunt.



According to him, he got paid for
this reading this scroll in marijuana.

Ben: Look, that's why we need a union.

That's why we need a union in
comic so we can get blunts.

I mean,

Emily: or, and blunts and yes.

It is, it is nice to know that other
people were not paid in simply blunts.

I hope that those people who were like the
actress paid $700 at least got a lot of,

Ben: you can buy like a
bunch of blunts for that.

Jeremy: Yeah.

But like, I mean, in the seventies
you can buy a ton of weed for 70.

I mean, that's

Ben: the thing, like I wonder if the
reaction to this movie was like this

movie, if at the time they're like,
this is capturing the malaise and

dissatisfaction of America and the 1970s.

And we just said the 2020s are
just like, ah, that's cute.


Ben: that's cute.


We angst in about America in
the seventies, which, okay.


We're a, I guess like, yeah, we're
a year after Vietnam, Nixon and

shit, but it's like, I feel like
people are just like, I feel bad and

they're bad people in this movie.

So this movie is topical.

I just don't see it.

Like, I just is the implication that
if, oh gee, if only the plant was

still around, then they wouldn't have
turned to like insane cannibalism.

Like, is that the implication here?

Emily: I mean, there's some classism
there too, because like, apparently

if you can't work at the cattle
slaughter house like AOI, look, the

POS are just a fucking psycho killer.

Ben: The POS just have like,
they're built up murder.

If you don't let 'em murder
the cows, they'll murder us.

The real human beings.

Is that the message of the movie?

Yeah, I don't know.

Cause that's an, that's
a bonkers ass movie.

I mean, is that we need to keep
the control, the pores, like

UN unsatiable urge to kill.

That's a that's

Jeremy: bonkers.

That's the message on

Ben: class.

That can't be the theme of the movie.

The movie has more to say

Jeremy: the movie has more to
say about class than it does

about race or LGBTQ IA people.

There's nothing to be said.

It's an extremely straight movie.

Ben: We have one black
character in the movie.

He has no name other than trucker.

He's awesome.

And he's got a great throw with a wrench.

Emily: Oh yeah, he does.

He does nail well, he does wrench.

Ben: And then he just D disappears
after what I assume was the only

afternoon of filming they had him for

Jeremy: yeah.

He runs the other direction when
Sally jumps out of the truck

and we never see him again.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

So that's, that's all it has
to say about race, I guess.

Cuz there's no black
people in Texas, I guess.



Ben: I guess I.

I being, look, I'm a black person.

Maybe I'm being a little
stereotypical here, but I'm like,

this was a Texan film in the 1970s.

This could have been a lot worse.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, it could have been last
house on the left where the

trucker was a black woman who
was a horrible racist stereotype.

Like, yeah,

Ben: yeah.

This dude just nails.

One of like the villains and then
like hits the other wiffle wrench

and then just Fu like kind of
saves the day and then just fucks

Emily: off.


I mean, wouldn't you though.

Ben: I kind of think he's
the real protagonist.

He is by far the one that does
the most to stop the villains.


and it's not even close.

Like he is the, when it comes to
stopping Leatherface and Leatherfaces

family, he is the MVP by far.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I mean, here's the thing is there's
the most to say about this movie

when it comes to feminism and when
it comes to mental and physical

disability and it's all bad, like

Ben: all bad on every level, bad,
yeah, it's take on the disabled is bad.

It's treatment of women is bad.


I truly don't know what the
overarching theme of the movie is,

but anything I can guess is bad.

Jeremy: Yeah.

There are at least three characters
that seem to be mentally disabled,

to have a mental disability.

There's at least one
physically disabled person.

And all of those things are treated badly.

They're all dealt with badly.

They're all dealt with as like with the
exception of Franklin they're monsters

for having a, a mental disorder.

And Franklin is, is treated as nothing,
but a, a, like a whiny burden, like

the way that he has played in this
movie, he is constantly whining.

Ben: Franklin has given no likable
qualities, but also speaking of

Franklin what is it that he has
sticking out of his mouth for a

significant portion of the film?


Was that a sausage

or, yeah, like, was that a
sausage, that's not how you

Ben: eat sausages.

You don't just leave them in your
mouth, like cigars for long stretches

Emily: of time.

I mean, they were out on a
road trip who knows, who knows?

Like, what was that?

It was weird.


Ben: It was, it was like, did he
get that from the gas station?

And where's now supposed to be
like, ah, Franklin eight, human.

Well, they,

Jeremy: they get a bag of
barbecue with the gas station,

which is presumably human.

Ben: Oh, definitely human.



Jeremy: like, I don't know that we, I
don't know if we see that people eat that

Ben: or not, but I feel like in general,
if you're at a gas station, like we

got no fuel, but we got great barbecue.

I'm like, so you don't have the thing
you're supposed to have, but you got lots

of the thing you're not supposed to have.

I mean, here's the thing
you're bad at your business.

Here's but great.


Jeremy: the cannibalism, not so
much the gas stations that make

great barbecue is a Southern thing.

Like, is that okay?

Ben: Yeah.

The best that's the best.

This is

Jeremy: my find comes from gas station.


Ben: this is my ignorance showing.

So there you go.

This is this is me being
a damn ignorant yank

Jeremy: within I think a 20 mile radius
for me, there are at least three gas

stations that also sell barbecue that
are, that do the second one better.


Being gas station.


Apparently also Paul Parton who plays
who plays the damn it, my brain stopped

working who plays the part of Franklin
in this movie is a method actor and

refused to break character between
takes and around making the movie.

But his

Ben: character is the


Emily: Yeah.

Like what character,

what drives me insane is

Jeremy: that he has this maybe not
inaccurate, but intense Texas accent,

Sally, who is supposed to be his sister
who was from the same town as him.

Has no accent.

like, she is.


Sounds like she has dropped
right out of LA that day.

And should air dropped in.

I was like what is he doing?

And what is she doing?

And can they not get on the same page?

I don't know.

It's wild.

And that goes a long way to
making him seem like he has

other disabilities as well.

Emily: Yeah.

There's also the, classism
of the Southern accent versus

the Los Angeles accent.

Like they're, the LA kids are the
normal ones and then anyone who is like,

Ben: supposed to be, why, wait, why
the fuck is Franklin talking like this?

Because he's

Emily: not the one of the normal ones.

Jeremy: I mean, him and Sally are
supposed to be from around there,

but Sally doesn't have an accent.

Ben: Yeah.

It, I think it's just trying to
then just straight up associate.

The Southern accent with
physical and mental disability.

That's what I'm saying

Emily: or just absolutely ignorance.


With the locals at the beginning
being like, well, hang on down there.

I talk to Mr.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And that

Ben: was whole time newspaper person.

And you know it.

Emily: Yeah, because I don't wanna
do a derogatory Texas accent.

Ben: Oh.

The men around.

So you'll derogatory are fine.

Newspaper people.

Emily: Just the ones from the past.

Ben: Just the ones who talk like this.



Emily: they're Mo the gangsters.

Anyway, Jeremy, you were

Ben: saying, remember when Hollywood
just made up a voice for people to

talk in only in movies, that's sad.

And they just did it for decades.

What the fuck up was up
with the MidAtlantic accent?

Emily: It sounded good on
audio, but Jeremy, you had

a thing you were gonna say,

Jeremy: oh man, I forget guys.

You recommend that people see this movie

Ben: thing moving.

Not really, if you're one of those
where it's like, I wanna see every

historically major horror movie and
see everything that influenced stuff.


Otherwise it's only an hour 20,
but it feels like a long hour 20.

It is the

Jeremy: longest 82 minutes
in the history of film.

Like it's,

Emily: it's longer than
the most recent episode.

It feels longer than the
longer episodes of stranger

things that I've been watching.


Ben: so , yeah.

I don't like it, especially that

Jeremy: last half hour is

Ben: so long.

Like it takes so long
for the killing to start.

And then so much of it happens in
like eight minutes and then the

rest of the movie is just endless
running and it's just screaming.


Like there's just no dialogue.

After the halfway point.

It's just like screaming.

And what dialogue there is,
is this family being horrible?

Emily: It's sequential
monotone it's monotone quiet,

and then it's monotone loud.

I gotta

Ben: say in the Pantheon of
like great horror villains.

I don't love Leatherface that much,
like compared to like Michael Myers

like Freddy Kruger and like Chucky and
a lot of these others that we've seen.

Like, I gotta say, like, I like the
chainsaw, but other than the choice

of weaponry, like I gotta say, I'm
not too impressive, impressive weather

face compared to Michael Myers and
Halloween, like four years later, Michael

Jeremy: Myers is a character
is a person of pure evil.

Like he's, you know, literally,
like they say that he's just,

there's nothing behind his eyes.

He's dark and he is evil
and everything else.

And Leatherface they're like,
oh, he can't really talk.

And is like, pushed into
doing this by his family.

Like he's not really a monster.

He's just mentally disabled and
it's like, oh my God, that's

Ben: not better guys.

That's worse.

I can't worse.

In fact, someone getting away from
Michael Myers and Michael Myers, just

like raving and dancing at a frustration.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I mean, yeah.

I, I don't know.

I have real problems with this movie,
not just from like a thematic standpoint,

but with the idea of like how badly
people were treated in the making of

this movie and how, like poorly it was
dealt with and the same way that I have

trouble watching Kubrick movies now,
like knowing the way that in the shining,

how poorly he was treating, you know,
kids and old people while making that

movie like the extent of, or Shelly
DVA, Cruthers and Shelly Deval and

Ben: hi justice for Shelly.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And, and watching this movie now, I mean,
we've made a point, I've made a point of

turning down, talking about Roman Polansky
movies on this, despite the fact that like

Rosemary's baby is a very like noteworthy
moment in horror, because I don't feel

the need to give Roman Polansky more, I

Ben: think if screen time, instead
of Rosemary's baby, we should

watch the Adam Scott movie where
he becomes the anti-Christ stepdad.

Emily: Or we do an episode about
we should, it actually has shit.

The Roman Lansky's done and
sort of for awareness that

Ben: way, because God,
we should do that movie.

It actually has a trans man as a
prominent supporting character.

Emily: Good representation.

Ben: Yeah.

Emily: Okay, good.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I mean,

Ben: there's a trans man is in the
stereotypical macho best friend role.

Oh, I mean, there's also

Jeremy: Lyle, which is basically
Rosemary's baby, but with lesbians.

Like, oh yeah.


Ben: heard about that.


Jeremy: Lyle is good.

What a real hard watch much like
Rosemary's baby, it's a difficult

thing to watch, but like, yeah, I
don't, we, we haven't covered Roman

Lansky's films for that specific reason.

And I feel bad about like supporting
movies that treated their cast and

actors and, and other folks poorly.

And like that on top of the things
that are just wrong with this movie

and yet continue to get more wrong

Ben: over time.

and yet we continue to cover the
resident evil films, a series

that is notoriously abusive to


Emily: well, we made that choice
signed up for that, you know?


We made that choice.


agree to

Jeremy: be abused by
the resident evil films.


So, or it's like a kink for us, you know,

Ben: that's true.

Emily: We consent.

We consent it.


With with Texas chainsaw Massacre yeah,
I mean, in terms of recommendations it's

I would recommend it only as homework.


If you wanna know what we're talking
about, or if you wanna know what the

big deal is, I mean, I'm not suggesting
that you will get an answer, but you

will at least know what's going on.

What we're talking about.

If you haven't seen it, what the big
deal is to those who constantly cite it.

I mean, and if anything, you could
throw it on in the background

while you're cooking for your


Jeremy: party.

Oh, don't do that.

Don't cook,

Ben: don't cook with this
in terms of recommendations.

I mean, heck there's so many great
ways that the last year is gone.

If you're just looking for bloody
gory times, there's so many.

Other places you could go for that,
like help watch Halloween do a nightmare

on Elm street, watch the fucking saw
movies, like watch some Eli Roth shit.

If you're just looking for screaming
and gore which is kind of all the, which

is what made the movie shocking at the
time and just makes us go like, really

you call that a chainsaw disempowering.


Jeremy: Yeah.

I feel like those are the movies
that are most heavily influenced

that are descendants of this movie
are the Eli raw things like hostile.

Like those feel the most like what's,
what's come out of this because yeah

I would absolutely recommend basically
any other slash or franchise over

this, except Friday the 13th, which
I notably also do not like still,

I like more than this mm-hmm both
Halloween and nightmare on Elm street.

Are a lot of fun.

We've talked about both of those and if
you really wanna watch something that

is like an important moment in horror.

Those are our good ones to check out

Ben: also like every week check out
Jason X, where Jason goes to space.

Emily: What's the hell racer?

That's in space.

I haven't actually, I
don't think I've seen it.

Jeremy: It's I don't, I don't know

Ben: my, uh, what line?

Hell the final front final frontier.

Emily: I mean that's event horizon

Ben: is event horizon.

I'm so excited for us to do event horizon.


Emily: yeah.

So watch event horizon.

So you'll be ready for one way.

Do it this year later on this year.

That's my recommendation.

Hannibal, if you wanna see more arts
and craft project with bodies and a

little bit more like substance although
actually the one thing I recommend

is the meme that shows Hannibal
having dinner with this family.

And, I think the caption is like, talk
about an awkward Thanksgiving or something

Ben: like that.

Well, I feel like this would be where
Hannibal would go to, like when he has

like his diner drive drive-ins and dives,

Jeremy: please.

This is Texas


Jeremy: So you're, you're
saying Leatherface is the

Guy Fieri of Hannibal's.

This is how I'm trying to interpret that.

Emily: Yeah.

Well, I was thinking like H Hannibal
would be the Guy Fieri like in

investigating all of, yeah, like

Ben: Hannibal, this is in this scenario,
Hannibal watched a bunch of Guy Fieri

on food channel, like got inspired and
decided to find like the cannibal, like

of like, you know, tried to find like the
diamonds in the rough of Hannibal cuisine.

Well, I think Hannibal

Emily: would go about it a little
bit more like, Anthony Bourdain.

Yeah, but that may make he rest well,
but the the, I do like the idea of

then Leatherface is guy fi and I
mean, he'd be a lot more of a fun.

He would have a character

Jeremy: if, yeah.

I feel like hitchhiker is much
closer to a Guy Fieri type.

Ben: Leatherface would
rock a flaming button down.

Emily: That hitchhiker is
basically Richard Chase,

which is really weird to me.

It's so weird because
Richard Chase was later.

Also Richard Chase is like, I really
hate to say it like this, but he's

like my hometown serial killer,
cuz he haunted our neighborhood,

but it was before we moved there.

So like right before we moved
there, he was in jail at

Ben: that point.

So what you're saying is we've
never seen Emily and the vampire

of Sacramento in the same place.

He's dead

Emily: now.

Look him up.

He looks

Ben: exactly that convenient
for a certain somebody.


Emily: look he did a lot of
horrible things to animals and I

would never, ever, ever do that.

Ben: That's true.

That checks out your story checks out.


For now Zodiac.

Emily: Yeah.

I'm Zodiac.

Didn't do anything bad to
animals as far as we know.

Jeremy: I mean, he just gave him
he's real bad at Congressman.


Emily: Tell me about it.

Jeremy: All right.

Ben: I do.

My favorite part about Zodiac is how,
like every few years a new book comes out.

It's just like, I don't know.

I got drunk with a cop that knew
a guy that worked the case, and

this is who he thinks did it.

Here's my block.

Totally solved it.

Jeremy: Oh, well, I think
that wraps it up for us guys.

Uh, We pretty unanimously hate this film.

Ben: We sure do.

Not a fan.

Jeremy: As for where you can find us to
tell us what you think about our, our

critique of this movie, you can find emily
@megamoth on twitter and at mega_moth

on instagram and at

Ben is on Twitter @BentheKahn and on
their website where

you can pick up all of their books.

And finally, for me, you can find
me on Twitter and Instagram at J

Rome five eight, and my website
at, where you

can check out everything I write.

And of course the podcast is on
patreon @progressivelyhorrified.

Our website at

and on Twitter @ProgHorrorPod where
we would love to hear from you.

And speaking of wanting to hear from
you, we would love for you to review

our podcast and give us five stars
it helps us find new listeners.

Thanks again for all of you for
joining us and thanks as always to

Emily and Ben for for being here.

While I work through my feelings about
the Texas Chainsaw Massacre with me.

Emily: We're here for you.

Jeremy got your back.

We're always here for

Jeremy: you.

All right.

Guys, that's it until
next time, stay horrified.

Alicia: Progressively horrified
as created by Jeremy Whitley

and produced by Alicia Whitley.

This episode featured the horror
squad, Jeremy Ben and Emily.

All opinions expressed by the commentators
are solely their own and do not represent

the intent or opinion of the filmmakers.

Nor do they represent the
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