Alicia: Hey!

Just a heads up!

The episode you're about to listen
to is about The Platform directed by

Galder Gaztelu-Urrutia and written
by David Desola and Pedro Rivera.

Some relevant trigger warnings for
this movie include violence, gore,

cannibalism, suicide, nudity, on-screen
defecation and urination, discussions of

and implications of sexual assault and
rape, racism, Islamophobia and tinnitus.

Our hosts ranked this movie as
terrifying and extremely disconcerting.

If you'd like to learn more
about the movie, discuss this

evening, please visit our website.

Progressivelyhorrified.transistor.fm
for show notes and a transcript.

After the spooky music, we'll
talk about the movie in full.

So be forewarned: there will be spoilers.

Now let's get onto the show.

Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast

where we hold horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.

Tonight.

We're talking about the
Spanish post apocalyptic sci-fi

horror film, The Platform.

I am your host, Jeremy Whitley
and with me tonight, I have a

panel of cinephiles and cenobites.

Ben is off so tonight joining me as
always we have the cinnamon roll of

cenobites our co-host Emily Martin.

How are you tonight, Emily?

Emily: I'm remembering those beautiful
saccharine days of Requiem for a Dream

and remembering fondly, how that was
a, a movie about like stuff people did

that they may have had some agency in.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Emily: And spoilers, nobody
ate anybody in that movie.

Jeremy: Not that I saw, but who knows
what goes on off screen in that movie?

Emily: Yeah, director's cut.

Jeremy: And our special guest
tonight, one of our long friends and

multiple time guests, comic artists
and my collaborator on School for

Extraterrestrial Girls, Jamie Noguchi!

Welcome back, Jamie.

Jamie: Hello?

I'm so glad to be able to talk to other
people about this movie because I, when

I watched this, no one else had seen
it and no one around me was interested

when I told them what it was about.

So like, it has sat with me for a while
and has fucked me up for a very long time.

So thank you for inviting me on

.
Jeremy: Absolutely.

I, I watched it last October during like
my whole marathon of scary movies, and

uh, I, I was in the same position where I
didn't have anybody to talk to about it.

Speaking of which uh, let me go
ahead and say like, uh, it is

directed by Galder Gaztelu-Urrutia.

The writers of the story and screenplay
are David Desola, the screenplay

is co-written by Pedro Rivero.

It stars, Ivan Massague, Zorion
Eguileor, Antonia San Juan, Emilio

Buale, and Alexandra Massang- Masangkay.

Okay.

So I literally wrote on the notes here.

Look, let's not fuck around!

This movie's an extremely on the
nose, but somehow still very effective

metaphor about capitalism and
humanity and how fucked up things are.

And despite being really on the nose,
like it's still happy to have its

characters drop direct comparisons
to the social issues that it's about.

And somehow it still works.

So yeah, I think my favorite thing about
this is we find out that halfway through

this place that's repeatedly referred
to as the pit is actually known as the

vertical self management center or VSC.

It is a vertical prison.

We get this brief interlude
at the beginning of fancy

chefs making very fancy food.

There's like.

Classical instruments being played to
them, making it there's a, you know, guy

going around, inspecting all the food.

And then we meet our main character
Goreng who wakes up in a cement

room with the number 48 on the wall.

In the middle of the room is a big
square hole on either side is a bed

one for him, and one for his roommate
Trimagasi, who is an older man who

gradually explains situation to Goreng.

Trimagasi fan-fucking-tastic.

Jamie: Oh yeah.

Jeremy: I love this character.

He's the worst.

And also the best.

He's kind of what makes this
movie work in a lot of ways.

He's really our, every man for
this cause like Goreng is a, he's

a nice person and Trimagasi is not.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

He's about he's right in the middle
road there considering like once

you've realize what the average
is, you're like, oh, oh, okay.

Anyway, continue please.

Jeremy: Yeah.

So they are in a prison that uh, Trimagasi
knows to have at least 140 some floors.

At the, at the end of every month,
they switch floors but keep, the same

roommates until one of them dies or
finishes their sentence in this prison.

Every day, a meal is prepared and sent
on set on the center platform at the top

and it gradually lowers to each floor and
they have a small portion of time to eat.

And then it keeps on
lowering to the next floor.

If you try to take and keep anything,
your room either gets super hot and super

cold until you die or throw it back.

The thing continues down
to the floors as you go.

The problem is nobody on the upper
floors takes an even portion and

leaves us for everybody else to eat.

They rifle through, they eat it.

They spit things out on the table.

Uh, They climb on everything.

Trimagasi is a particularly
interesting picture of, of

what's wrong with all of this.

As he eats everything he can, shatters
the glass wine bottles into the food

when he is done, and spits and pisses
into the food at various points in

this movie uh, saying that, and I
think is the most important thing

that said in the movie that he assumes
the people above probably do the

same thing and he curses them for it.

He calls them, you know, bastards.

And that's why he does it because those
people probably also do it to him.

And he knows the people below are
gonna do it to the other people.

So why, why should he be any different?

Um,

Emily: It's trickle down.

It's what they call trickle down.

Jamie: It is.

It's literal, trickle down.

Jeremy: Literal, trickle down.

Goreng tries to connect with
the people above and below him.

But Trimagasi is like, don't talk to the
people below because they're below you

and the people above will not listen.

And we learned that everybody gets
to bring one item into this place.

And the two items of these, these
main characters here tie very

importantly into their origin stories.

Goreng chose to come here for six months
with the objective of quitting smoking

uh, finally reading Don Quixote, which
is his one item he brings with him.

And uh, then he will get a
degree after six months in here.

Trimagasi on the other hand, got sent
here because he was given the option

of this or a mental institution uh,
because he saw an infomercial for a

knife sharpener, which made knives
sharp enough to cut through bricks.

He eventually decided uh, that not having
a knife sharpener must be what's wrong

with his life and why it's so shitty.

So he bought it.

Uh, The sharpener is
called the Samurai Max.

He immediately saw an infomercial with
the same people selling a knife that

never needs to be sharpened called
the Samurai Plus uh, and this made

him so angry that he ripped his TV off
the wall and threw it out the window.

And in doing so hit and killed an
illegal immigrant on a bicycle,

an act for which he has no
contrition and blames the victim.

He brought the knife with him, the Samurai
Plus knife with him as his one item, it

continues to get sharper as he carves
tallies into the walls which is gonna

be an important thing to note later on.

They continue on like
this for, for a while.

Until one day we uh, meet Miharu a
woman who is riding the platform down.

Trimagasi tells us that
she's looking for her child.

She doesn't really say anything.

And as long as they leave her
alone, she leaves them alone.

Goreng wants to help her.

Um, Miharu is promptly attacked by the
guys on the next floor, pulled off the

platform, quickly murders her attacker
and then goes back to the platform.

It is implied.

She's been doing this for quite some time.

We also during the, toward the end of
this first month, see a lot of people

committing suicide by jumping from the
upper floors uh, you know, down into

the hole uh, because they don't know
where they're gonna end up next month

and they have nothing to look forward
to after being on the upper floors.

He denies it at this point, but
it's heavily implied that Trimagasi

survived his stint in the one forties
by killing and eating his roommate.

And shortly thereafter they are
gassed and wake up on Level 171.

Uh, Goreng wakes up to find he has
already been tied to his bed by Trimagasi

who says he doesn't wanna hurt him, but
Goreng is stronger and younger than him.

And eventually it's gonna come down to
them fighting and he doesn't want to lose.

So he promises not to mutilate him.

Yet.

This is also the part where at some
point he basically admits to having

killed and eaten part of his roommate.

And Goreng says you're a murderer.

And in another one, of Trimagasi's
really like telling things.

He says, no, I'm not a murderer.

I am someone who is frightened.

Which is again on the nose,
but like fucking incredible.

Emily: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

So finally, that day comes after being
tied up for several days, Trimasi

decides that he's going to have to
start cutting strips off of Goreng.

He does offer to go ahead and feed
Goreng, some of it um, so that,

you know, both of them can survive.

Uh, He is in the process of doing
this when Miharu arrives again,

smashes Trimagasi over the head
with a bottle and then stabs him.

She cuts Goreng free.

Goreng goes ahead and finishes the
job stabbing and killing Trimagasi.

And Miharu slowly nurses him back to
health by bandaging his wounds and

feeding him pieces of Trimagasi over the
next several days before getting then

back on the platform and disappearing.

And Goreng survives his last couple days
by eating the maggots off of Trimagasi's

rotting body as he continues to see
Trimagasi talking to him in this room.

He does survive the month.

He is gassed again, and ends
up on floor 33 with his new Mo

roommate, a woman named Imoguiri.

Imoguiri is uh, the woman who took
his application when he first came.

So she's been working for the company
for years and she's become aware that

the system is broken, but due to her
own impending death by cancer has

decided that she's going to try and
fix it from the inside, by entering

herself and starting a revolution.

Uh, She has brought her sausage
dog Ramseys the second and

a truly irresponsible move.

Emily: Oh my God.

Oh my God.

Jeremy: She decides she's going
to start making up plates for the

people below and insisting that they
only eat their one serving and make

up servings for the people below.

And she's going to do this
by badgering them to death.

uh, In, in hopes that eventually everybody
on what she is certain and says, she knows

for sure are 200 floors in this place.

This woman has worked for this thing.

She knows there are
only 200 floors in here.

The people below refuse to do this
until Goreng seemingly just gets

tired of hearing her, say it over
and over and finally insists they're

either going to do it or he's
gonna shit in their food every day.

So they, they start making
some change after that.

Goreng insists to her that change never
happens spontaneously and it, it really

takes people having to eat shit to
change it and make them band together.

Emily: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy: One day Taru comes in again on
the platform injured and unconscious-

Emily: Miharu.

Jeremy: Oh yeah.

Let's

Emily: Tara is uh, Sailor Saturn.

Jeremy: Yes, my sorry.

Their names are changing as I go.

Uh, no, um, injured, unconscious Goreng
gets her off the uh, platform and

bandages are up and gives her his bed.

Meanwhile they almost died because
the fucking dog squirrels away some

food while they're paying attention.

Jamie: That fucking dog.

Emily: It's not the dog's fault.

It's her fault for fucking
bringing the dog with her.

It's her fault.

Jamie: Yeah, the dog is
doomed from jump street.

Emily: Oh my God.

Seriously.

And then like, yeah.

And the second I saw that dog,
I'm like either the dog's going

downstairs or the dog is do like-.

Jamie: She's got cancer, the dog doesn't.

Emily: Yeah.

Jamie: So let the dog alone.

Emily: Yeah.

Jamie: Leave the dog to a friend.

Emily: Yeah.

Let the dog eat one of the dead people.

Jeremy: Yeah.

This uh, truly, truly irresponsible.

And this is the part where the dog bites
it because Miharu's not putting up with

this bullshit and kills the dog in the
middle of the night and almost ends up

fighting with Imoguiri uh, before, you
know, she goes ahead and leaves the

next day on the platform, again, off
to find her child, but Imoguiri insists

that she checked Miharu in, when she
first came in and that she was alone

and did not come here with a child.

That she was in fact wanting to
be the Asian Marilyn Monroe and

was doing this to lose weight.

Beforehand.

Emily: Some, some racism
in this movie, you guys.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: Some people
saying some racist stuff.

Jamie: But also if she came in
alone, it implies other things about

where the baby may have come from.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

That is never expounded upon.

Jamie: They don't say it, but-.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

So, um, uh, So obviously having lost
your dog Imoguiri is inconsolable

for the last few days together before
they are gassed again and wake up on

floor 202, further, down than Imoguiri
thought existed in this prison.

And it is difficult to tell how
far down below that it goes.

Goreng is trying to count them
by seeing how long it takes

the elevator to come back up.

She, on the other hand has hung
herself before he even wakes up

presumably to save him from having
to do it or from her starving.

He spends the month getting by eating
pieces of her and also Don Quixote.

He, he does eat chunks of his book.

Jamie: Fiber!

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: While talking to the ghosts
of both of his dead roommates.

This is a particularly
rough section of the movie.

Jamie: Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Finally he's gas again and wakes
up on Level 6 with a new roomy, the

optimistic and excitable, Baharat who
has a rope and a plan to climb out by

getting the people above to help him.

A couple in the room
above agreed to do so.

But when he starts
climbing, they shit on him.

And he uh, drops the rope down the hole.

He is barely saved by Goreng who grabs
him just before he falls into the hole.

And he, he loses the rope
and his sense of optimism-.

Emily: Immediately.

Jamie: Yes, yes.

As he should.

Emily: Well.

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, he
did literally get shit on.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: By the people above him.

Goreng uh, gets a visit from Trimagasi
who uh, congratulates him because

this is the month before his last one.

He only has to make it through
one more month after this.

And even in the worst circumstances,
he can survive one month without

eating, after he's been on this
high floor for all this time.

Mm-hmm um, But he also is
visited by Imoguiri's ghost

and he feels some debt to her.

He feels he's debted to try and fix this.

So he and Baharat who is, also in,
on doing something to fix things,

decide to ride the platform down
and make sure that everyone actually

gets to eat this time based on his
calculations, counting how long it takes

the thing to go down and come back up.

He thinks that there's about 250 floors.

Uh, they can probably make
it last through all of them.

Uh, Their plan is to not let the
people on the top 50 floors eat cause

they eat every day and then to ration
things out to the people below them.

They do this by fucking
busting heads and shoes.

Emily: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy: They bust heads and
distribute breads all the way down.

Jamie: That's a good,
that's a good phrase.

Emily: I love that.

Yeah.

Seize the means of production, I guess.

Jeremy: They bust a lot of heads too.

Yeah.

The people on the top 50 floors
are not willing to not eat for

a day because they're up here.

Why should they not?

Eventually on their way down, they
encounter a wise man who Baharat knows

who asks what the point of all this is.

you know, He's like, oh, this it's
good that you're doing this, but

what the fuck, does it matter.

Nobody's gonna know anything about it.

Um, You need to send a message.

Something that people would eat, uh,
needs to be protected and go back uneaten

so that somebody will get a message, get
the message and start asking questions.

So they decide the perfect way to
do this is to guard the panna cotta.

The panna cotta is the message because
it's, it's delicious and fragile.

And if it goes back untouched, they will
know that something strange has happened.

Emily: Basically you need a message,
only bust heads after the dialogue,

this man is Nelson Mandela.

Like That's who he's supposed to be.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Metaphorical Nelson Mandela.

Emily: They go on this journey and
they, they encounter Nelson Mandela

and they're like, right, right.

Yes.

I should know this I
should know who this guy is.

Jeremy: Yeah.

He's, he's very big on the, like
extend a hand to them first.

Talk to them, tell them what's going on
and then hit them if you have to . Yeah.

They're like, okay, got it.

Makes sense.

Sure.

But they soon discover that the
elevator doesn't stop on floors,

where there is nobody alive.

So this thing is actually much deeper than
they thought it was uh, they, they get

further down and they find, uh, where uh,
our, femme fatale where Miharu has been.

uh, She is in the middle of
a fight with two large men.

One of whom brought a katana as one item.

Emily: Real samurai plus.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: Although this dude is white.

Jeremy: He's a weeb.

Emily: Yeah, he's such a, he
is, he is a weeaboo like he's-.

Jamie: I learned the sword.

Emily: While you were fasting.

Jeremy: Yeah.

They are not in time to save her
from getting stabbed to death.

They do proceed to get in a fight
with these two guys and almost

get themselves stabbed to death.

Baharat manages to take care of
the guy with the samurai sword

and cut The other guy's head
off just before he kills Goreng.

They get back on the platform.

Both of them injured in bleeding.

um,

Jamie: All over the food.

Emily: God.

Jeremy: All over what's left of the food.

Emily: Yeah, I was, I was surprised that
the panna cotta made it after they like

passed out all over this broken glass.

Jamie: Yeah!

Jeremy: Yeah.

They ride all the way down to the bottom
floor, which turns out to be floor 333, a

number of many great significance is none
of which are expounded upon in the movie.

So this is where the platform stops,
but Goreng sees something here, there

is a child clearly uh, Miharu's lost
daughter uh, Who is hiding under the bed.

They go to get her.

And as soon as they step off the
platform immediately goes further

down, stranding them on this floor.

The girl is hungry.

So Goreng talks him into giving
her the panna cotta, even though

that is supposed to be the message.

Goreng has a dream in which Baharat tells
him that the child is the message now and

they need to make sure to get her back up.

But when he wakes up, Baharat is actually
bled out and is dead in the night.

And the next day when the platform
returns Goreng and the child climb

on it, he is not doing great.

Uh, She seems to be fine.

Other than being hungry.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: They lower quite a bit down
into a big empty black space um,

where it finally stops just, you know,
where they can still see the light.

The child has fallen asleep in his
lap and uh, Trimagasi's ghost comes

to collect Goreng and tells him that,
you know, this, this is a message.

Doesn't actually need anybody to take it.

It will serve as a message on its own
and walks with him into the darkness

allowing the child to go whirring up on
the platform hundreds of floors in her

sleep and we do not see what happens.

That is the end.

Emily: I'm.

I mean, I hope that she survives
that very, very rapid ascent.

Jeremy: I guess it, the thing slows
as it gets to where the top, because

otherwise it would just throw plates
everywhere when it got to the top.

Emily: Right?

Jamie: God I uh.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Yeah.

That's uh, the end of that
incredibly bleak movie.

Jamie: Yes.

Yes.

Jeremy: Guys, what did you think?

What do you wanna talk about?

Emily: Um, Okay.

I have a few things.

The conceit of this movie is as
simple as a logic puzzle, but it is an

incredibly effective, terrifying, and
emotional movie about human beings and

how they, who they are and how they are.

Jamie: Mm-hmm.

Emily: I was talking about Requiem
for a Dream earlier, and I, I

compare these two movies because
they both left me in a similar state.

This movie did not need The
Chronos Quartet mm-hmm to remind

me how bleak everything was.

This movie just had some like
psychological thriller beep

boobs and that's it, you know?

But the thing is that Requiem
for a Dream is a movie where

a lot of people have options.

Their, their sense of choice is of
course, subjective to how exactly the

context of their situation affects them.

It's about a symptom
of , the capitalism machine.

This movie is about the cause mm-hmm
, and all of the horrible shit that

happens to those characters in, in
movies, like Requiem for a Dream or,

or any of those films where like, just
people get fucked up by, you know, we

live in a society kind of statements.

This movie is like, here's the problem.

And you can't really blame.

I mean, yeah, there's some assholes
here and there's some assholes there.

And the real, like turning point of
this movie is when you know, we, we

see Trimagasi, like tie down Goreng
and he's like about to strip like

flesh off of 'em so they can share it.

And you see how in the context of
that film later, how reasonable-.

Jamie: Yeah!

Emily: This decision is.

And that like, just through character
work is so much more elegant than the kind

of Heart wrenching almost gratuitousness
of some of these other films that talk

about, you know, we live in a society.

Jamie: Mm-hmm.

Emily: Y'know there's a
lot of spectacle there.

This movie, I mean, you can argue
there's a lot of spectacle on how

much like blood and guts there are.

But if you really think about it, like
we're not sugarcoating anything here.

There's nothing that's
fantastical about it.

Yeah.

Except for the way that that platform
travels, we don't know how it travels.

Like is it air currents?

Is it like I ions?

I don't know.

Is it a magnet?

How do they work?

But like a-

Jamie: Magnets!

Emily: Yeah.

Like the, the platform has no
discernible method of propulsion.

Other than that, everything else is
very, like, this is a brutalist space.

And here's some prisoners.

Go.

Jeremy: For me, I think that the
interesting thing is when the movie

breaks its own conceit, which is
like throughout the first part of

the movie, you have Goreng going.

Yeah.

But what if everybody just
controlled themselves?

Like, what if everybody just cared about
the people below them and they only

took what they needed and they made
sure that everybody could else could

eat there's enough people and there's
enough food here for everybody to eat.

And then like, you know, when he gets
this uh, roommate who has, has worked for.

The company Imoguiri who is like,
yeah, there's, you know, there's

200 floors, like feasibly, there's
enough food for everybody to eat.

We just have to work in solidarity.

I think the darkest moment in that
is when he wakes up on floor 2 0 2

and she has already killed herself.

Emily: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Jeremy: Because she has realized in that
moment that like, her mission is a lie.

Like mm-hmm, this concept that there is
enough food to feed these people is a lie.

Because like they can blame the people
and they do blame the people throughout.

But then it turns out that even
if those people were performing

perfectly, even if they were leaving
enough food and just taking what

they need, there's still not enough.

The government is lying about how
many people are there and how much,

you know, food is actually needed.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: Yeah.

Jamie: I think that revelation
fucked me up more than anything else,

because not only are you reliant
on the people above you for your

survival, but the game is rigged anyway.

Even if they were playing fair by
the rules, you're still fucked.

So like when, when that part hit me,
I , I was sitting alone in the middle

of a pandemic where people were-

Emily: oh God!

Jamie: Running around with no masks
saying like, oh fuck, what are you

being afraid of masks and stuff.

And we were still like in the early days
where like, we didn't know what to do.

So things were shut down and you
had people like, so I was like, yep.

This, I don't know if I'm supposed
to glean any hope out of this fucking

movie, but that's just the way we are.

We can't rely on anyone else.

And oh, by the way, the
game's fucking rigged anyway.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

That's, what's so real about it.

They mention it in the movie,
they show how these characters

will go from random floors.

So you'll have somebody who has
figured it out on floor 48 and then

suddenly they're on floor 1 72.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: Trimagasi he's like ready to go.

He's like, okay, so I know what to
do here, but he doesn't make any he

doesn't expand his thought to anyone
around him because like anyone above or

below, the fact that it's hard enough
for him to manage a situation with

him and one other person to survive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it seems really callous and
it is but even though he has the

experience to be sympathetic,
he is still incredibly selfish.

and that is so important because we,
people who are privileged, always

expect those noble strugglers before,
below them to be so like sympathetic,

because, you know, once they show
sympathy to them, right, where they're

like, oh, I'm offering you this gift.

It's the whole savior complex.

And then we, we expect people like
when we're trying to, level things out,

economically, whatever, there is this
conceit that, oh, the people who've been

through shit will always understand.

They won't be traumatized.

They won't be desperate.

They will think and act with the clarity
that we, the privilege do because we,

the privilege gave them an option too.

Jamie: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Emily: You know?

Like people can't immediately become
woke, so to speak, like that's the

thing about this movie is that people
will, will lose hope on a dime.

And that's true, you know, because when
you have a high ideal, and you have this

way of seeing the world and suddenly
it's like there aren't 204 50 floors.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: There's infinite
floors or whatever.

Like then everything that you
thought you knew was wrong.

Jamie: Mm-hmm.

Emily: And you might as well just
collapse right then and there.

Jamie: And your dog is gone.

Emily: And your dog is gone.

Your dog dumb bitch killed your dog.

And, you know, You brought your
fucking dog to the fucking,

can you eat enough trial?

Like come on.

Jamie: Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeremy: It turned your
sausage dog in the sausage.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

God.

Jeremy: Um, Yeah, I it's rough.

The, the randomization I think is one
of the things that's really interesting

to me because it mirrors some of these
arguments about healthcare and stuff to me

that like, people should be sympathetic.

They should want to make sure that
everybody's healthcare is paid for

because that is a thing that they
could very realistically have to,

you know, they could be on that floor
next year, you know, next month.

Yeah, definitely.

They could be the one
that's under the gun and-.

Jamie: And it, and it doesn't matter
how much you've bought into the system.

It doesn't matter like how rich you are.

Yeah.

One bad day can fuck you up.

And you're on Level 300383.

And like, and no one
gives a shit about you.

Yeah.

They're gonna shit in your food
and you're gonna get broken glass

when the platform comes to you.

So Hurray.

.
Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and it really effectively critiques
that conceit that like, oh, if we all know

how bad it can be, then we can be better.

Jeremy: It points that out too
with like, no matter how good you

are, the system is still rigged.

And like, unless the system
is fixed, it doesn't matter.

Yeah.

How good you are.

There's still gonna be
people, that don't get fed.

Jamie: Yeah.

Like if the system can tell that you're
trying to squirrel something away and

will burn you or ice you out, you could
implement a system where there's portion

things on the platform itself, and you
can only take what you're allotted.

Emily: Yeah.

Jamie: But that they don't give a shit.

They really don't give a shit.

Once you're in the
system who gives a fuck.

Emily: Yeah.

And I also love that this movie doesn't
have a moment where they're like, oh,

it's a social experiment or whatever.

Cuz it's, I mean, it's obvious.

Yeah.

But like it's Cause I mean
the, the, the situation is so.

I I like saying elegant
because it is muy elegante.

Also, is it postapocalyptic?

Jeremy: I mean, that,
that may be not the best.

Jamie: Well, the, the
one, the one scene where-.

Jeremy: We don't actually
see the outside really.

Jamie: You see that one scene where
he's, talking to what's her face.

Imoguiri about like, when she's
checking him in, the office space

is kind of vast and brutalist.

So you get the idea that it might
be a, a future or a near future.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Jamie: And I was trying to find clues
in the opening too, where like, they're,

they're being so fastidious about the
food preparation, but it just looks

like, you know, gleaming walls and stuff.

Emily: Well, they were also, the food
was, I don't know if this is like

an industrial kitchen thing, but it
looked like they had food in all these

different, like sandblasting cases.

Jamie: Hmm.

Emily: Which was weird, like these weird
little containers, like it reminded me

of a um, like a sandblasting case or a-.

Jamie: Like a NICU thing?

With the gloves and stuff?

Emily: Yes, yes, exactly.

Like a hazmat kind of situation.

Which is also interesting.

Jeremy: Yeah, I think like that's one
of the, the preparation too, I think

is one of the things that's interesting
about it to me is that like, they could

send enough food and probably spend,
well, definitely spend less money

than they do on the food that's there.

Yeah.

But instead they, you know, they
ask everybody what their favorite

food is and they, they prep
the stuff you know, coming in.

So like our, our main character
Says that he, he wants escargot.

Like, that's his favorite food.

So they prep escargot every day and put
it on the, the thing along with all these,

you know, desserts, this big chocolate
cake that goes on there every day.

Jamie: Yeah.

Jeremy: All these amazing looking foods.

Jamie: It speaks to the
bureaucracy of it all because

like they could put a check mark.

See?

We're seeing to the needs
of the people in the system.

We're giving them what they want.

They have the ability to get
the thing that they want.

Mm-hmm , it's not on us
that they don't get it.

We have provided them the ability,
the chance to get this thing.

It's their favorite thing.

And we've provided it for them.

And we're so fastidious about this.

Like our head chef gets pissed
off if something is out of place.

So, so we've checked that.

We're good.

We can go on.

It's it's just, Ugh.

Emily: I hate, yeah.

It checks out on paper.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: And that's yeah.

That is a litmus test like that, you know,
that you can see that is the, the margin

of success is that it checks out on paper.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I, I think Trimagasi is such
an interesting character to

me because he feels so real.

He's a guy who is giving the
same sort of justifications

of, of like people, you know.

He is the equivalent of
like a, a Fox news watcher.

You know, he sees, he sees
these bad things on TV and

he knows the way people are.

So that's the way he is, you know,
he gives back the same thing that he

expects to receive from other people.

He treats other people the same way.

He thinks they're going to treat him.

Not the way that, you know,
he wants to be treated.

He thinks he must be miserable because
of, you know, this, this thing that

he sees on TV that there's an ad for.

So if he just gets the, if he can just buy
up this thing and have this thing, then

you know, his life won't be shit anymore.

Jamie: Yeah.

Jeremy: But then there's
always another thing, right?

Like there's always the next thing.

And I, I think that's,
really's really interesting.

You know, those, those lines about
like, oh, I'm not a murderer.

I'm just somebody who's afraid.

Which like is so symptomatic of this like
question of, of security versus, versus

Liberty versus caring about people.

Jamie: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy: Like this, there's so many
people that justify doing horrible

things to other people because
they're afraid that other people are

going to do horrible things to them.

Emily: Yeah.

Jamie: And watching this during
the pandemic was just way too.

Emily: My God.

Jamie: It was way too much of a mirror.

Emily: I mean, I did watch Requiem
for a Dream during a pandemic

with that movie was about heroin.

Um, And this is a movie that is about the
problem that the heroin is a symptom of.

So yeah, like-.

Jamie: I should not have watched it.

Fuck you, Netflix.

Emily: Hey.

Jamie: You got me!

Emily: But you had the choice, James.

Jamie: I did have the choice I did.

Emily: You had.

Choice is an illusion.

Jamie: I could have been watching
Squid Game, which is another thing

that came out during the pandemic!

Jeremy: Yeah, this, this one is it's
funny because it's like, there's

not really jump scares in this, you
know, that's not scary in that way.

Yeah.

But like, as I was doing the like
trigger warnings for this, I was

like, oh yeah, there's violence.

There's gore.

There's cannibalism.

There's suicide.

There's nudity.

There's onscreen defecation and urination.

Yeah.

There's you know, discussions of an
implications of sexual assault and rape.

There's racism.

There's Islamophobia.

And I was like, oh, and
there's all this suicide.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

And a tinnitus- give it, give this shit
a solid tinnitus warning cuz you need it.

The very beginning scene.

I was like, oh dear.

Ugh.

Jamie: Oh, and the, the, the food, the,
the audio of the food, like when they're

eating, it's just so like, oh yeah.

Emily: If you have that.

Jamie: So moist and just like,
yeah, it just it's just, it's a,

so audible, visceral experience.

Like every time they're grabbing
food, it's just like it's.

Emily: Yeah.

There's a lot of mouth sounds.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: And I know some
people are not into that.

Jamie: It's like, whatever the
opposite of ASMR is just like, Ugh.

Jeremy: Especially Trimagasi.

Every time he's getting into the food.

Like, especially that first time
that Goreng is watching him.

Jamie: Yeah.

Jeremy: Eat there's
clearly already eaten food.

Jamie: Yeah.

Jeremy: And like, he's just like
sucking the marrow out of the bones and.

Jamie: Yeah.

It's like this desperate sound.

And by the end of the movie, you get it.

But like, those first couple times
you're like the fuck is going on, man?

Like what's happening?

Emily: Yeah.

The expansion of context is
so effective with just these

very small bits of information.

Like there's another floor
that they didn't think about.

And it wasn't, it didn't ever
get that much more messy.

Like there wasn't any
extra shit that showed up.

It's not like some death note shit
where they're like, oh, and now

you have all these rules about how
you can death note somebody like

.
This is the same thing.

Yeah.

This is a, there are these
circumstances and everything else

is up to you and that's your fault.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: Implicitly, right?

Yeah.

So.

Jamie: This motherfucker
volunteered for this shit.

Oh my God.

Emily: Yeah.

But that's another thing is
that I, you know, they didn't

know what the fuck that was.

Yeah.

You know, they quote unquote opted in.

But nobody knows exactly what they're
opting in for like, if, if you go to this

place and you're like, okay, so I have to
stay in in here for six months, so sure.

Eat okay.

And, or not cool.

And then you wake up and you're like,
oh, there's a cannibalism happening.

This is this isn't cool.

This isn't like sexy Hannibal cannibalism.

Too.

Like, Hannibal's like sexy.

There was a bit where Imoguiri was
talking about how well both her and

Trimagasi were talking about like how
their bodies and their flesh are sacred.

And I think it was Trimagasi was
saying that like, now that you eaten

of me, I am part of you forever.

And all this kind of stuff.

And then there was like the, the parallel
made with the communion and, and all that.

And the sacrifice that Imoguiri
made, like the fact that she left

her body was, you know, he was
thinking like, was it a gift to me?

So I didn't have to starve?

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: You know, what am I supposed
to do with this information?

Et cetera.

And then remembering, like, wasn't
it cute when Hannibal ate the rude?

And now you think like, no.

No, he's the 1%.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: That's all that
preparation, you know?

Yeah.

That's, that's what makes it edible,
but yeah, the, they don't pull

away from the, the cutting and the
eating and this movie they're very

like uh, in your face about it.

It's so good.

And it's so rough.

The opting in thing is interesting.

Cause I think in that way, it sort of
reminds me of like debt and, you know,

the fact that he's getting a uh, a degree
out of it, I think is important in that

respect that, you know, you, you opt into
debt thinking, oh, this is gonna be an

easy thing when I just, you know, get
this small amount and I have to, you know,

pay it off and this time and it'll be
easy, cuz I'll have a degree after this.

And then like you just get sucked
into this system where, you know, you

could get pulled down to, you can get
pulled down a floor 2 0 2 at any time.

Emily: Yeah.

And I don't think he, you know, I don't
think anybody who opted in knew that.

Jamie: Right.

Emily: And honestly they could have
been told something like, yeah, so

there's a bunch of floors and there's
a certain amount of food and it goes

down the floors and it's fine, you know?

And that's the thing is
it's, it's so simple.

And it sounds simple.

Just like advertising jargon, the,
the kind that tricked Trimagasi

where it's like, it's that simple?

You just stay alive.

Yeah.

Hang out.

You have a bathroom.

You have, you have a sink.

Jamie: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy: I think the, the one thing
I, I didn't really mention, which

I think plays into the end a bit
is that you know, Imoguiri tells

him like, oh, there's no kids here.

There are never any kids here.

Under sixteens.

They're not allowed.

So like the, the fact that they
have this kid and they send her up

at the end, you know, it, it should.

Trigger the idea that there
is something wrong that like

this kid should not be here.

Jamie: But it, but you know,
it's not gonna make a difference.

Like, you know that if they did a sequel
to this movie, it's just the same movie.

They, they just give you a ticket for
the first movie and you walk right into.

Cause like, you know, this is
not gonna make a difference.

They're gonna be like, oh, how'd
you get there and it'll be a blip.

And then you go right back to it.

And that, yeah, that's the part, at
least that's the way I interpreted it.

Cuz I was in a bad head
space when I saw this...

Emily: I mean, but I, it could very
will be that it could be, I think

it's important that it's open ended
because like that's really the, the

hope that there is, is that like maybe
the next person will figure it out.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: You know?

Jeremy: And I mean, yeah.

Hopefully who like whoever
gets this, whoever.

Whoever cleans up the platform
when it comes back at the end of

the day is not the administration.

Yeah.

There's somebody who is, you know, a
regular worker who knows that there's

not supposed to be 16 year olds in here.

Who's gonna do something hopefully
to cause a fuss about it.

But you know, letting them know, sending
them a message is the best they can do,

you know, mm-hmm, the people in the
prison do not have the ability to really

communicate with the outside world.

This is, this is the most
they could possibly have done.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's like, the fucked up thing
is Jamie, you, you suggested the reason

that there is a kid here is that this
kid has lived their entire life here.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: That, that Miharu had her kid here.

And I don't know if, I mean, that kid
looks a few years old, so, you know, who

knows how long they actually were there,
who knows what the circumstances were,

but there's no way that the administration
didn't know that there was somebody there.

Jamie: Mm-hmm.

Emily: Because there every
room is obviously monitored.

Cuz how else would they know that
someone steal like hiding food away?

Jamie: Right.

Emily: You know?

Jamie: And, and the platform
stops if there's a person there.

So the know there's a person there.

Emily: Yeah.

If there's, and they
don't clean up the bodies.

So, you know, at least as far as we know.

Jeremy: Yeah.

That was the thing.

That was the thing they didn't touch
on for that I wondered about is like

in between the months, there is some
number of people whose job it is

to wheel out the unconscious people
dispose of all the dead bodies and

then wheel them back into whatever room
they're going to be in for this month.

Jamie: Yeah, there could be a, there
could be like a full week that they're

asleep, that they get switched out
and stuff like the passage of time

is a lie in this entire thing.

Emily: Yeah.

You have no idea how long
you've been in there.

And here's a question: there's a bit where
Goreng is making tick marks on the wall.

What is he counting?

Jeremy: He's counting the floors.

He's trying to figure
out how long it takes.

Okay.

That's right.

He times how long it takes the platform to
come down to his room and then to leave.

And then he makes a tick for every, every
floor after that, that he thinks it's,

you know, he counts the number of times,
which is why he thinks there's 250 floors.

But you know, then they, that moment that
they go to a floor that both people are

dead and the elevator just keeps going.

It's just, and, and like, You know,
his, his roommate says, oh, it doesn't

stop when there's nobody there.

That means there's a lot more
floors than we thought there were.

And like, we have no idea what we're doing
and what we've gotten ourselves into.

Jamie: Yeah!

Emily: Yeah yeah.

I, that, that whole bit was in the midst
of that like psychotic break montage that

I was like, how, how long is he there?

Yeah.

.But yeah, now that makes sense.

Thank you.

This is why you need to talk
to somebody about this movie.

If any of you, if any of you, you
two, especially, but if fans on

the Twitter have a movie that you
need us to talk about, but you

can't like be a guest or whatever.

Just hit me up.

I'll watch a movie as long
as it's not dumb or horrible.

Like when I say horrible, I
mean like, you know, racist or

whatever, like actually racist.

Yeah.

You know, not talking about how racism is
bad, but you know, you know what I mean?

I hope.

Jeremy: You'll find out.

Yeah.

You know, you mentioned that there is
racism in this movie and it's interesting

the way it is shown, because it is sort
of acknowledged people say racist things,

nobody really makes a point of stopping
them and going, Hey, that's racist.

But like the movie's just like, Nope,
the way that's the way this dude is.

This dude is racist.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: And it just kinda keeps going.

Jamie: I also feel like Goreng
doesn't wanna challenge a guy

with a knife on his racism.

Emily: Yeah.

But I mean, like, it's interesting
how racism is used in a lot of these

situations, because usually it is
like an ad hominem or just someone

in, in like the midst of desperation.

These people who are incredibly
upset and disillusioned, and

they're like, well, I guess I
might as well be racist about this.

Yeah.

Yeah, cuz there's the, bit where they're
going down the, on the platform with

Bahara t and doing the food, you know,
seizing the means of production, well

seizing the means of distribution.

And then one of the guys that they're
trying to police away from the food, so to

speak, sorry for using that term is uh, is
trying to use racism to manipulate them.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: So.

Jamie: Maybe in a better
time, it's a good time.

Maybe when the sun is out,
you should watch this movie.

Emily: Yeah.

but not when it's 118 degrees outside.

Jamie: No, no, no, no.

Yeah.

Not when you're frying.

Emily: Don't don't watch this movie when
you're like your Bo your, your soul is

actively trying to crawl out of your
body just so it can breathe for a second.

Don't watch it then.

That's when you watch Steven
Universe, at least dissociation is

fun and rainbow colored when you're
watching season Steven Universe.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, I, I think this movie's incredible.

I think, you know, you, you guys did
obviously mention recommend for a dream.

It's, it's one of those that
it's like you can't just watch

this one whenever you have to be
prepared for what's coming for you.

Cuz it's it's heavy
and when you hear like.

The goofy concept of it.

The there's a platform that
distributes, you know, food to

all the floors with this prison.

It's gotta be, you know,
ham fisted and dumb.

Right?

Jamie: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy: Um, and like, it is amazing how,
how effective it actually ends up being.

Emily: Yeah.

Jamie: I, I really like how you
framed it Emily, as a logic problem.

Like, it's, it's one of
those classic logic problems.

Like, oh, you can logic a way out of this.

Nuh-uh!

Emily: No, it's more
complicated than that.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: And that is the, the
long and the short of it.

I think in terms of
that, that conversation.

This is a situation that is so complicated
and so fucked from the beginning, that

every way out is going to require a
sacrifice and, you know, is it worth it?

Jeremy: It, it's so interesting to me, the
way this movie gives a premise and then

denies the premise, which is like you come
in with this idea that like, oh, this is

a movie about how people are terrible and
how, if you could just coordinate people

to work together and, you know, care about
each other, then everything would be fine.

But the reality is the deck
is stacked from the beginning.

And like, , this idea that if we
just all worked together and did

the right thing, is the trap.

The real trap is thinking
it's the other people's fault.

Cause you know, yeah.

The government, the administration and
this, you know, they say in this one is,

is lying to you about what the problem is.

And they are the ones pulling strings.

And you, you can't possibly note
that until it's too late for you.

Jamie: You've lost it.

As soon as you signed
that paper, you've lost.

Emily: Yeah.

Jamie: It doesn't matter what you do.

It really doesn't matter what you do.

It doesn't matter what you do.

Maybe if you only had a month
stint, but also you've lost.

Emily: And it's crazy because like
you think about it and you think

about these people opting in and
you're like, well, they had a choice.

It was an illusion, but you know,
it could still say like, oh, it's

their fault for opting into this.

The real problem?

We don't have a choice.

Like, that's the thing is, you
know, you're born into the system.

And it's not until you really understand.

And like, it's really
easy to, to lose hope.

Once you realize like how
fucked up it is, you know?

And that's where you get
characters like Trimagasi.

Jamie: Mm-hmm.

Emily: Who's like, I thought
this way, I thought that way,

I thought fi 15 different ways.

This is how it is.

This is what I gotta do.

I don't like it, but I'm gonna do it.

Other than just being casually racist,
you don't have to be casually racist.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: No, one's forcing
you to be casually racist.

Jeremy: You know, this, this movie
is interesting in that it, what you

take away from it is so sensitive
to when you're watching it.

Cuz you know, Jamie's talking
about watching it at the

height of the pandemic and-.

Jamie: Don't do that!

Jeremy: And seeing, seeing what
people are are doing in real life.

And I'm watching this now, you
know, for the second time, but still

like at the height of us discussing
student debt and like, oh, should

you, you know, should these people
have to, to pay for these other, you

know, these other people's debts?

And I think the question of somebody
like Goreng who volunteered to

go into this really resonates
with the student debt question.

Cause it's like-.

Jamie: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy: Well of course you know,
people are going to look at, you know,

people with student debt and say,
well like, well they chose to do that.

They volunteered to go into debt.

Why should I have to pay
for, for their thing?

You know, I, I think the fact that
he gets a degree when he comes out of

it, I think is, is really It's really
hitting that button cuz you're like,

well, that is how it works with, student
debt is you uh, you sign up for this

immense cost thinking, you know, oh,
well I'm gonna get a degree out of it.

And that's gonna-.

Jamie: But then I can pay it off!

Jeremy: It's not gonna be that bad, yeah.

Pay it off.

And it's, it's not, not actually
that simple once you get there.

Emily: I mean it's the metaphor is
so perfect for all of those different

systems within the big problem.

Like the student debt and healthcare
and like civil engineering or, you

know, social structure, the whole thing.

Jeremy: Yeah.

It's like Xmen the metaphor
is whatever you want it to be.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: Yeah.

It can be everything.

Jamie: And unfortunately this
movie is gonna be way too

relevant for way too long.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Ugh.

Emily: Yeah, but the other thing
though, is that like a message was sent!

Jamie: That's true!

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Emily: There was a message.

Jeremy: I've been going
back and forth on this.

It is ultimately like the cruelest thing
or the kindest thing, depending on,

on where you stand that the movie cuts
without like you finding out what happens.

Emily: Yes.

Jamie: It uh, it made me feel
even worse, but that's cuz I

was watching it when I was.

Emily: So if you like this
movie, watch Cosmos because

don't worry, it won't matter.

Just don't be casually racist
and don't shit on people.

Yeah.

There's a toilet.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Emily: Or there's a mound.

Jamie: Let 'em climb a rope.

They're not gonna get anywhere anyway.

Emily: Don't don't shit on people's food.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: Don't shit on other people.

Shit in the places that
are assigned for shit.

Please?

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: And if someone else says
that you shouldn't shit there

now we're getting complicated and
that's much more complicated of

this than this movie's message.

Jeremy: I, I sent what I felt like
was an important tweet during watching

the uh, wrestling Pay-Per-View
this weekend, which was uh, it

doesn't matter what your wrestlers,
what your favorite wrestlers do.

Don't spit on people.

That's not nice.

Emily: Yeah!

Jamie: Yeah!

Emily: Yeah!

Jeremy: Don't spit on people.

Jamie: Yeah.

Don't spit on people.

Jeremy: That's a bad example.

Don't spit on people.

Don't shit on people.

Don't people's food's.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: We've talked pretty heavily
about how uh, class is discussed in this.

Um, And-.

Emily: This movie's about class?!

Jeremy: Yeah.

Emily: What class?

Like science?

Jeremy: That's right.

It's classics, actually.

Emily: The classics!

Jamie: The classics.

It's all about Don Quixote.

Emily: Yeah.

Don Quixote...

Jamie: Oh no.

Oh, he's so self-deluded, fighting
at windmills that like one in here

is so self-deluded that they can
actually fight through the, oh fuck.

Jeremy: Oh my God.

I never really considered
why, why it was Don Quixote.

Jamie: Oh, it's uh...

Emily: Yeah.

Well, the second there were like
Don Quixote and I'm like, all right.

Jamie: God.

Emily: Okay.

Movie.

Jamie: Godammit movie.

Jeremy: It was a part of me that was
like, I have also never read Don Quixote

and it's because it's fucking huge.

So like, yeah, every time I've thought
I'd really like to have read Don

Quixote I look at it and I go, Hmm.

Emily: I'm gonna, I'm gonna
go out on a limb here.

The concept of that book and the concept
of the character of Don Quixote is

enough that we need to understand.

Yeah.

You know, it's like Moby Dick.

Like we understand you.

If you actually read that book, that book
is mostly about the, how whaling happens.

Jeremy: It's a lot of, lot of that
man, really talking about all the

stuff he learned about whales.

Emily: Yeah.

Even though they still say, learn
a lot about whales in the whole

book, they say that they're fish.

But that's pedantry because at the
time a fish was a thing that swims.

Jamie: Hurray!

Emily: And we didn't have like a
scientific fucking kingdom of fish.

Anyway, is this movie feminist?

Jeremy: I don't know.

I don't know.

Uh, Like it does, it does show a
variety of, of different female

perspectives in this story.

Cuz you, you know, you have Imoguiri who's
this person who's trying to fix the system

who is deluded and does not know it.

Like we don't, we don't know it
at the time, but it becomes clear

that she is, she is trying, she has
learned that she has nothing to lose.

So she has decided she might as well
go down trying to fix something.

Jamie: Yeah.

Jeremy: Um, And then, you know,
sometimes, sometimes women can

be, you know, platform murderers.

And sometimes, sometimes women
can shit on people like, you know?

Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: I don't know.

I don't think it really has a lot to
say about feminism because I think of

one of the things about this movie is
really important is that everybody is

there, everybody that they can think of.

You have a variety of
races and, and creeds.

We assume that there are Muslims
because someone's Islamophobic.

So, you know-.

Jeremy: I mean, given that
it, theoretically is, I mean,

it's happening in Spain.

There are a lot of people who seem to be
immigrants or from an immigrant family.

Jamie: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy: Um, you know, who are not
necessarily ethnically Spanish.

Emily: Yeah, there's, there's a certain
amount of diversity in the languages too.

Cuz there was not just Spanish.

There was French, there was um, Italian.

Jamie: Yeah.

We see a whole bunch of
different people too on there.

Yeah.

Jeremy: Okay.

I did wanna mention the one thing that
did kind of irritate me feminism wise

is there is for some reason, one dream
sequence in which after meeting our-

Emily: Miharu.

Jeremy: Yeah.

He dreams about them having sex in which
this, you know, she, as a character is,

is topless for in this scene, which is
completely beside the point of the rest

of the movie and completely unneeded.

Jamie: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy: I don't know, it, it felt
out of place in the movie for me.

And uh, you know, especially considering
the generally good job this movie does

of not being like they're sexy prisoners.

Like women are just as dirty
as the men in this movie.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: Yes.

Jeremy: They're all
filthy for the most part.

Yeah, the only other nudity we get is him
and him Trimagasi uh, nude, stretching

on their opposite sides of the bed.

Which is there's, there's that one
sequence, like after they get to

know each other and be friends for
a little bit on, you know, floor 40,

whatever it is, they stirred on that.

It's like, it's kind of funny, like, oh

Emily: yeah.

Where they're like, it's
enjoyable for a while.

Yeah.

Jeremy: And, and then, you know,
they go down to the one 70 S

and it immediately gets grim.

Emily: Uh, Yeah.

I will say that the, the classic, you
know, woman making out with you in a dream

becomes dog licking your face joke was a
bit of a wild decision for this film, but

everything else was so fucking intense
that I was like, oh, that happened.

Okay.

Why is a dog here?

Jamie: Yes.

Why?

Emily: Like I immediately
was like, is this feminine?

Why is a dog?

Why did you bring your,
why did you bring your dog?

I automatically don't like you, I
don't care how fucking idealistic

you are or how right you are.

You brought your dog.

Jeremy: This is a weird moment of sneaking
tits into the movie for no reason for me.

Cause I was just like, yeah, you
can get across this idea that

he's having a dream about her.

Without necessarily like her just needing
to be topless in this dream scene.

Like it doesn't.

Yeah, it doesn't fit.

Emily: Yeah.

If they can, if they can get away
with not having titty in Earth Girls

Are Easy, then they can get away
with not having titty in this movie.

There was a lot of topless.

Jeff Goldblum in that movie.

I'm sorry.

I'm reaching for straws.

Jeremy: Jeff Goldblum will
get topless for anything.

Emily: Don't!

Don't slut-shame Jeff Goldblum.

Jeremy: Jeff.

Jeff Goldblum got
topless in Jurassic Park.

Like.

Jamie: Fantastic.

Jeremy: There was no call
for that, but he's down.

Emily: He was injured.

Jeremy: We'll be talking
about The Fly soon.

Emily: Oh yeah.

That's-

Jeremy: The Fly has lots of
unnecessarily naked Jeff Goldbloom.

Emily: I don't know if that's unnecessary.

Okay?!

Jeremy: No?

Emily: Can we not?!

Jamie: He is the grand master.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Jeff Goldblum has
no problem getting naked.

Emily: Yeah.

I and good for him.

I mean, at that time of his
life, I would, I'd be like sure.

Jeremy: If, if you were a 20 year old
Jeff Goldblum, you would get naked too.

Huh?

Emily: Oh my God.

If, if I was a 20 year old,
Jeff Goldblum: a memoir.

Jeremy: Be naked.

Emily: Are you there?

God?

Jeremy: All day long?

Emily: It's me.

I want to be naked 20 year old.

Jeff gold.

Jeff Goldblum

Jeremy: Are you there?

God, it's uh, uh, it's uh, it's

the 20, 20 year old naked.

Jeff Goldblum.

Emily: And there, there it is.

Ian Malcolm: uh oh.

There it is.

There it is.

Jeremy: There it is.

There it is.

My penis.

There it is.

Emily: There's there's my dick.

And you have uh, 25 Gill and a
magic fire ring for your Dick.

Jeremy: You know, the one thing uh,
that is missing from the diversity

of this movie is there's not any sort
of discussion of LGBTQ people at all.

Jamie: Yeah.

Emily: No.

Jeremy: This is not a thing.

Emily: But the fact that there
is a straight couple having

sex and they are the worst

Jeremy: Yes.

The, the couple on floor
5 is the fucking worst.

Emily: Yeah.

They're fucking the, okay.

Yeah, they're fucking the worst.

And they are the worst fucking,
so maybe by contrast...

Jeremy: There's knowing that
some month in the future, they

will probably eat each other.

Jamie: Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Emily: I hope he practices though.

Then this movie's feminist

Jeremy: Uh,

Jamie: They're not-

Emily: I'm so sorry.

Jamie: They're not gonna last, whatever.

How many, many months
they're they're in there.

They're not gonna last.

No,

Jeremy: no.

They're the worst.

Emily: Alicia.

This is who, this is where you edit.

Jeremy: No, no.

I don't think it is.

Emily: Cause I have a question for you.

How long do you think someone can
live by eating pussy that long?

Jeremy: I feel like I need to
explain some things to you, Emily.

No,

Emily: uh, That's presumptuous, but sure.

Jeremy: I mean you're suggesting
somebody could live off of eating pussy.

I Don.

I mean, I've seen Castle
Freak, I've seen Castle Freak.

So that is a, a literal thing
that happens in Castle Freak.

Emily: Do they survive on it though?

Jeremy: No.

Emily: Fuck.

I had that movie's on my list.

They just went to the top.

Jeremy: He just misunderstands.

Um.

Emily: Oh, I see.

Jeremy: I, I would not put that
movie at the top of the list.

Emily: Okay.

Jeremy: I mean, it's very, very B-Horror.

You know, but it is also like,
that is a thing that happens in it.

Emily: Jeremy, do I need to remind
you that how much I've been talking

about and reading berserk recently?

Jeremy: That is a movie that
introduces prostitutes as characters

to get killed, Because you need
characters to die in a horror movie.

So they introduce some prostitutes.

Emily: Okay.

So like demons?

Jeremy: Not unlike demons.

Yeah.

Yeah.

In, in that, in a very similar way.

Emily: Anyway, so we talked about
yeah, there was the no, no, QIA a

plus representation to be found unless
you count the fact that the straight

people having sex are the worst.

And then therefore by contrast, everyone
else is better, but that is a stretch

that I think Ben would be proud of.

Jeremy: Yeah.

You did mention that there is a, a
guy who appears to be developmentally

disabled, that they meet when
they're going down the elevator.

He does seem to be in addition to
being developmentally disabled,

A sociopath or a psychopath.

Yeah, it does say that he
will kill people anyway.

Even if, you know, he does get food, he's
uh, not beyond murdering people which

is a questionable choice in this movie.

Yeah.

Emily: I mean, like, like if someone
who was not representing a minority

would said something like that?

There's a possibility that he's
just being real, but still he's,

he's also representing a minority
in this film, which isn't great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, you know, like, like again, a
stretch, but also, you know, bad move.

Yeah, IMO, my humble opinion.

Jeremy: Yeah.

So I mean, that really, that wraps up as
far as the talking points here concerned,

would you guys say that this is a, a
movie that people should check out?

Emily: Under the right circumstances?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would say it's, it's like the, the
Darren Aronofsky stuff where you're

like, okay, put on your seatbelt.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Emily: Keep your hands and
arms inside the vehicle.

Jamie: Yeah.

Jeremy: It is unquestionably a good movie.

Yes, it is a rough movie.

Yeah.

Jamie: I think it'll, I think it'll
sit with you and of course that's the

point, but yes, I, I think it's worth
seeing, like, I don't regret seeing it.

It did fuck me up for a very long time,
but I, I, I do not the experience.

Emily: Actually, I would
definitely recommend it if you

have, if, if Hereditary fucked
you up and you want something to

make Hereditary feel less bad-

Jeremy: Hereditary bothers
me more than this one.

But.

Emily: Well, Hereditary
bothers me, but at least with

Hereditary, I can pick it apart.

Like at least it's like, this is dumb
with demons and stuff and it did these

bad things and I'm, I'm mad about it.

This movie is like, yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Ow.

Ow.

Why

Jamie: It's that gut punch for sure.

Emily: Yeah.

Like, oh, hold on.

Jeremy: It's more of a gut stab.

And then you gotta twist a knife and.

Jamie: If you're feeling too
positive about the way things

have been going watch this movie.

Emily: Again, if you need to
talk to somebody about a movie.

Hit us up.

Hit me up on Twitter.

You both, please, you know
how to get ahold of me.

I'm saying I can be your bro and
help you talk about the movie.

And either agree or disagree, or at least
help you be remind you that it is a movie.

And we can talk about the decisions
made in the story that was told.

That is definitely not the very,
very real situation that we all

have to deal with every day of
our lives that we don't opt into.

I didn't absolutely.

Jeremy: So, I mean, with that in
mind what do you guys recommend?

What people check out this week?

Jamie: There's a movie series called Cube.

There's Cube, Hyper Cube,
and then Cube Three.

Cube is also another
logic problem type movie.

It takes place in a, in a box.

There are six port holes on either
side, you can actually open the

door and go to the next cube.

There are traps.

There are death traps.

And, and so like, these people are put
in this cube and they have to figure out

how to get through the traps and stuff.

So it's essentially the same situation
where you have one environment and

the entire movie takes place in this
one environment and the way they film

it, I think that the way they filmed
it, they had actually two cubes just

cuz they had to shoot into to one or
the other for, for certain scenes.

Right.

But it's, it's a character piece.

There's, they're eventually
six characters and it's how

they interact with each other.

But it's very similar in that.

Like you don't necessarily know
who set up these cubes, you

don't know anything beyond.

The world outside.

You don't know if this is like
a postapocalyptic kind of thing.

So the first one I thought
was a really tight one.

The second one sort of takes
a more sci-fi spin on it.

And then the third one is kind
of like a prequel ish to kind

of explain more of the world.

And it's just, it has all
the things that I love.

It has bureaucracy and hopelessness.

Emily: You love bureaucracy??

Jamie: And, and like things I like to
comment on like terrible BR bureaucracy.

Yes.

Okay.

Jeremy: Death traps.

Emily: Death traps!

Jamie: Death traps, and death traps!

Emily: And cubes!

Jamie: And cubes.

So, it's, it's more of
a personality study.

So you can kind of separate yourself
from these characters, whereas like The

Platform it's, it's a comment on society.

The first cube movie, all the characters
are named after a prison in the US.

Emily: Shit.

Jamie: And so their, their
personalities reflect the prison,

like what those prisons are known for.

So it's a, it is a com it is sort of
like a that's cool social commentary on

the prison system, but you have to dig
into, like, you had to watch, you had

to read a IMDB to figure that shit out.

Right.

Unless you're like, you know, so it's,
it's lighter than this movie, but it, it

has some of the same things in it that
I really appreciated about this one.

So yeah, the cube series, right.

First one's the best.

The, the other two are not as
good, but you know, they're fun.

Emily: The cube, the third
cube movie is Cube cubed right?

Is that what they call it?

Jamie: I think so?

Emily: Okay.

I making-.

Jamie: I hope so.

Emily: I don't remember.

I remember hyper cube.

Jamie: Hyper cube was
dumb, but it was fun.

Emily: Essentially.

If you really wanna think
about how we live in a society.

But you want your, your, the grotesqueness
of that commentary to be a little bit

more artsy and a little bit less real.

There's a movie just came out on
Shudder called Mad God, and it's

basically like we live in a society
and look at all these models.

It is a visual feast.

There is kind of a point.

What it says about that society
is it's fucked and then what *I

don't know* make art about it.

That's cool.

I mean, that's not the, the
message, that's just what happened

to make this movie happen.

, It's really cool though, if you're
a fan of monsters and if you're fan

like of, of imagery and vibe and, and
just like crazy prop work and weird

hallucinatory, symbolic storytelling.

Jamie: You're like me?!

Emily: I would recommend it.

It's definitely don't do drugs to it.

It's too much.

you don't need drugs for this movie.

Just watch it, just watch it and be like
that sure was a lot of stuff they pulled

out of that guy who is sort of Claymation.

Jamie: Yeah.

I'm looking at some of the, the images
on the, on the internet right now.

It looks, it looks amazing.

Emily: I mean the-.

Jeremy: Good things-.

Emily: Visually it is fantastic.

Narratively I mean, it's what
I like which is question mark.

But,

Jeremy: um, I feel like if you've listened
to this podcast, you know, now, right?

Emily: Yes.

I mean, I like things that make sense
too, but the, this is one of those

things where I feel like it's so weird
that it speaks directly to me and that

I can whisper back to it in my dreams.

And we can have a conversation
ourselves that nobody else is privy to.

And that is why I love
this movie in my own way.

And uh, we can have our own
hyper cube and live there.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And as for me, I was a little divided
on what to recommend on this, because

there's things that like, I feel
like, yeah, more like this also after

this, I need something a lot lighter.

So like on the front of, if you
want more things like this can

I introduce you to Bong Joon-ho?

Emily: There you go.

Yeah!

Jeremy: Both Snowpiercer is very much
like this and that it is a weirdly

on the nose metaphor for humans
that like deals with the same kind

of stuff, including cannibalism.

Jamie: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy: And Parasite is the much
more like real world version of this.

Jamie: Oh God.

Yeah.

Jeremy: Parasite is like this
what if this were more hopeless?

You know, what if, what if we didn't
have the fun sci-fi element here?

Jamie: Yes.

Yes.

Oh God.

Oh.

Emily: The fun sci-fi element
of a platform that moves

without any discernible

Jamie: yeah

Emily: propulsion.

That is the fun sci-fi
element of this movie.

Jamie: That's the sci-fi yeah!

Emily: There are ghosts.

Jeremy: It has a, it has
a weird high concept.

But if, if you want something that is.

Also weirdly on the nose metaphor,
but is a little more fun.

You'll come away a little bit happier
after seeing go, watch They Live.

Weirdly on the nose metaphor
that is pulled off in the, the

most John Carpenter of ways.

it is so much of what it is.

It stars, Keith David and Rowdy
Roddy Piper in the main roles.

Jamie: That's all you fucking need, man.

Emily: Oh my God.

Jeremy: And it's about a cool, magical
pair of sunglasses that let you see

capitalism for what it really is.

Yeah.

We've gotta cover that
movie on here at some point.

I Fucking love.

They Live.

Jamie: It's so, good.

Emily: That movie is like, you
know how in the Simpsons, Mr.

Burns can't afford Steven Spielberg.

So he gets like the closest
equivalent to steal Steven Spielberg.

This movie is like, if that, to John
Carpenter and John Carpenter work

together on a movie, like, he, it
was like Multiplicity or whatever,

but it was the, like the dumb clone?

Jeremy: They Live feels like somebody was
writing a script and they put on a lot

of things that are like, I'll go back and
change this to something better later.

And then they never did.

Emily: Yeah!

Jamie: Let it ride, let it ride funny.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Yeah.

And it, what, what results is a movie
that like I saw when I was eight and

like just got its hook in my brain and
stayed there for the rest of my life.

Emily: I mean, it got its hook
in Shepard Fairey's brain.

Let me be real about that.

Like if it, without, without that
movie, we would not have Shepard Fairey.

Jeremy: Also has a really
unnecessarily long alley fight scene.

Which I, I feel like you can just find
on YouTube, if you just wanna see.

Rowdy Roddy Piper and Keith
Lee, or Keith David fight in

an alley for about 10 minutes.

Emily: That movie is worth
it just for Keith David.

Like just watch it for Keith David.

Cause I was like, I, I didn't
realize it was him until like

halfway through the movie.

Jeremy: I'd watch it for Roddy Piper too.

Cause his- Roddy Piper acts a lot.

He's not the best actor.

He is maybe the most actor.

He's he really comes.

He really comes from that
wrestling background.

Like you can really feel it in
the way he delivers everything.

I, for one love it.

Emily: I feel like he's delivering
every line about like half a second

on the wrong like just a half
a second too soon or too late.

Like.

Jeremy: There's this movie
unexpected level of excitement.

Emily: Yeah.

Like a completely inappropriate delivery.

Like , you know, he, he wants to
be fucking Snake Plissken so hard.

And then, you know, but he
he's just like, I got gun.

Alien's bad.

Jamie: I came here.

Emily: What's that?

That was in shit before that movie, right?

Jamie: No, that was, that was that movie.

Emily: No!

Jamie: I came here to chew
bubble gum and to kick ass.

Emily: Yeah.

That's from that fucking movie?!

Rowdy Roddy Piper: I have come here
to chew bubble gum and kick ass,

and I'm all outta bubble gum.

Oh.

Jamie: And I'm all out of bubble gum.

Emily: Yep.

Jamie: That's where I've
always known it from.

Emily: Okay.

Okay.

I mean, like it's such a line and
I'm like, does that really come from?

They Live?

Like, I need to see the, I need
to see the family tree of this.

Where's the missing is, is
where's the missing link.

There's gotta be a
missing link man before,

Jeremy: Saskatoon Canada's
own Rowdy Roddy Piper.

Jamie: Saskatoon!

Emily: Saskatoon motherfucker!

Jeremy: We miss you Rowdy.

Gone too soon.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, watch They Live guys.

Good.

Before we, before we wrap up uh,
Jamie, can you uh, remind people

where they can find uh, more about
you in, in your work and all of.

All of the uh, images you're
doing in our characters as

various power Rangers right now.

Jamie: So, you can find me on Spotify.

I just released a new single,
which is about eating sushi.

Instagram, Jamie Noguchi.

Twitter, angry Zen master.

If, yeah, you're hearing this in
the month of September I do this art

challenge called Toku timber, where I draw
tributes to super sentai and kamen rider

and Kaiju and all that kind of stuff.

This, this year I'm drawing all
of the characters from school for

extraterrestrial girls wearing like all
the sixth ranger costumes as like fashion.

Good.

So, yeah.

So follow me on Twitter.

I'm I'm posting most of those on Twitter.

Jeremy: Nice.

Yeah, I think uh, when this
comes out, it'll actually be just

the beginning of October, so.

Jamie: Okay.

Well, never mind.

Jeremy: Well, you can, you'll
be able to see all of them.

You can just go enjoy 'em.

All right.

Now they'll all be there already.

Jamie: You can see 'em uh, if
I've done enough of them, I'm

gonna probably do like a, a video.

That's a super cut of all of them.

And then maybe that's my plan.

If I can get through 'em all.

Jeremy: Fantastic.

Well, I, I, I know I'm enjoying 'em.

I look forward to 'em.

As for the rest of us, you can
find Emily at mega moth on Twitter

and at mega underscore moth on
Instagram and at megamoth.net.

Ben is not here, but you can still get
ahold of them at Ben the Kahn and on

their website benkahncomics.com, where
you can pick up all of their books.

Emily, you had something.

Emily: No, I was just looking
at the trails for my camera,

cause I can't lights on.

Sorry.

Y'all I got an emergency alert from
uh, the government of California

telling us we have to turn our lights
off because it's 118 degrees outside.

Jamie: Lord.

Oh.

Emily: Only eat what you can eat.

Jamie: Fuck.

Jeremy: And finally, for me, you
could find me on Twitter and Instagram

at JROME five eight on my website
at jeremywhitley.com, where you

can check out everything I write.

And of course the podcast is on it.

Progressively Horrified on our website
at ProgressivelyHorrified.transistor.fm

and on Twitter at ProgHorrorPod,
where we'd love to hear from you.

Come, come tell us where that
quote is actually from if

we've gotten it wrong and-.

Emily: Please.

Jeremy: Come talk to Emily about
all the movies that traumatize you.

Emily: Yes.

Jeremy: And also wherever you're
listening to this, we would love it.

If you'd give us a five star review,
just so, uh, we can reach more people.

More people can hear about this,
uh, podcast we can get out there.

Uh, Thank you again to
Jamie for joining us.

It was a ball as always.

Jamie: Thanks for having me.

Emily: Thank you, Jamie.

It's always yes.

What Jeremy said.

Jeremy: And this was our, this is
our last episode when it's coming

out of Hispanic heritage month.

It's also our first episode of scary
movie month where we'll be talking

about sci-fi movies all October.

So, uh, you know, come back next time.

We're talking about Event Horizon.

We're talking about Prometheus.

We're talking about speaking
of John Carpenter, The Thing.

So about the time we
finally got to that movie.

Emily: For real.

Jeremy: It's gonna be a ball.

October's gonna be great.

And then in uh, November, we have
some really troubling things planned.

Emily: Don't say that.

Don't say that!

Jeremy: Well, it's it's
"Crow-vember" we're gonna be,

we're gonna be watching some the

Emily: Crow, it's all the
Crow, movies, all the Crow.

Jeremy: Movies, all the, all our movies.

Emily: The "crow"nenberg movies.

Yeah.

I would not subject anyone to
anything, but the first Crow

movie, which is a perfect film.

Jeremy: And I, we're not gonna watch
someone with David Boreanaz is the devil?

Jamie: I think Jordanna Brewster
is in one of those Jordanna

Brewster a fast and furious fame.

Emily: I...

Jeremy: I think I'm in one of those

Emily: I might as well be in one of those.

I will edit, I will find every
copy and edit myself being

like, stop don't do this.

Why, but due respect
to the actors involved.

Jeremy: Yes.

Emily: Maybe, I mean, unless
they're racist, then I'm like, mm.

Jeremy: Okay.

All right.

Thanks again for everybody listening
until next time stay horrified.

Emily: And cool!

Jeremy: Stay cool.

Yeah.

Alicia: Progressively horrified
as created by Jeremy Whitley

and produced by Alicia Whitley.

This episode featured
Emily and Jamie and Gucci.

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are solely their own and do not represent

the intent or opinion of the filmmakers.

Nor do they represent the
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publishers of the commentators?

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Bye!