Jeremy: Good Evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast

where we hold horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.

Tonight we're kicking off Asian American
and Pacific is Heritage Month by talking

about great Asian American directors.

It's only appropriate that we're starting
this month off with a creator whose

work started this podcast, Karen Kassam.

We'll be talking broadly
about Karen's work.

But more specifically about the
movie, the Invitation from 2015,

which we watched for this week.

I am your host Jeremy Whitley.

And with me tonight, I have
not a panel of Chil and Cytes,

but just my co-host Ben Kahn.

Ben, how are you tonight,

Ben: I'm good.

I mean, I'm glad.

This is why I stick to Connecticut.

Dinner parties, they
only kill your spirit.

Jeremy: right?

this has got real, uh, bad
X vibes flowing through it,

Ben: this is bad, but also
has, it feels very distinctly

Hollywood Hills in its way.

It's good choice of setting,

Jeremy: if I am gonna go out, going out
with a belly full of million dollar wine

seems like maybe the way to go, you know?

Ben the Kahn: honestly.

Like if I have to pick
and I understand why I.

Those two picked.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben the Kahn: but yeah, no.

It's just the two of us.

We got a dynamic duo here tonight.

Jeremy: We can make it if we time

Ben the Kahn: we're gonna have a lot
of fun and uh, congratulations, Alicia.

This one should be pretty easy to edit.

Jeremy: in theory, although we
can find ways to mess it up.

I'm sure.

Ben the Kahn: Oh, without a doubt.

oh yeah, I got faith in myself too.

Fuck up if nothing else.

Jeremy: So you're doing the recap.

I'll handle the kind of
basics here at the top.

Just talking about who made this movie.

Like we said, it's directed by Karen Kama.

It is written by Phil Hay and
Matt Manfredi, who are also

responsible for writing right along.

One in two R I P D, clash of the
Titans, Aon Flux, and Jackie Chans,

the tuxedo, just to name a few real

Ben the Kahn: Good news.

Good news.

This movie is better
than those movies are.

Jeremy: All of those
movies together, maybe.

I haven't seen the ride along
movies, but all the rest of them

I have and they're not great.

Ben the Kahn: is, yeah, I'm with you.

Oh, man.

I haven't even thought about the tuxedo
since I saw it in theaters in 2002.

Jeremy: So this also stars
Logan Marshall Green.

Ben the Kahn: Logan Marshall Green,
who we last saw in Prometheus,

and spoilers, he is much better
in this movie than in Prometheus.

Jeremy: Yeah.

It also starts Emil Cor Nedi,
michael Hussman and Tammy Blanchard.

Michael Holzman, you'll remember as
second Dario from Game of Thrones.

You know, the one you
were all disappointed in.

Ben the Kahn: I was gonna go with a
haunting of Hillhouse reference for him.

Jeremy: Yes.

Much better, I

Ben the Kahn: that yet.

This is pre haunting of hillhouse.

But if you want to see this guy
be a protagonist in another very

good horror thing definitely
check out Haunting of Hill House.

We should probably do an
episode on it at some point.

It's real good.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Well you wanna jump into the recap?

Just tell us what happened here, Ben.

Ben the Kahn: Yes.

So the movie starts with Will and his
girlfriend Kira, driving through the

Hollywood Hills to visit his ex-wife
Eden, who is hosting a dinner party

with her new husband Darianna Harris.

Will and Eden, uh, divorced
after the death of their son in.

Some sort of mysterious
barbecue baseball accident.

We don't see the moment, but

Jeremy: He died of baseball bat somehow.

Out.

Ben the Kahn: yeah, somehow a
baseball bat was, something was done

for a baseball pad and dead child.

It was the end result,
which probably good.

We didn't need to see that

Jeremy: Yeah.

We're not complaining about not seeing

Ben the Kahn: this was a, this was
a very effective discretion shot.

So they visit Eden's home with her new
husband David, and pretty much as soon as

they get there, will is just immediately
flashing back and having memories to

when he lived there and had a family.

It's very effective psychological horror.

Very tense.

Their other dinner guests joining
them are Tommy and Miguel, a

pair of wonderful boyfriends.

Their friends, Ben, the class clown wasn't
able to relate to this character at all.

Found nothing I found uh, I feel like Ben
also ends up how I would do in a horror

movie, making jokes a little too long
and not quite, making into act three.

Maybe I get to the end of act two,
but I'm not making it to act three.

Jeremy: And not much Usman shit
starts going down this man.

Ben the Kahn: I'm, no, I'm not,
I'm not go, I'm not much use

when shit starts going down.

Do not look, look to the helpers.

I will not be one of them probably.

But yeah, Ben, Claire and Gina and
they are your classic group of friends

who, Have not seen each other since
will and Eden divorced two years ago.

Also staying at the house is Sadie.

So weird lady who David and
Eden are letting stay with him

and are definitely banging.

Right.

Like right.

There's definitely threesome

Jeremy: Oh yeah.

Ben the Kahn: with those.

Jeremy: Oh yeah.

Colt.

Colt.

Threesome.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah.

Also David's big, friend, Pruitt arrives.

It is not implied that they
are having threesomes with him.

And if you think, man, this dude
is so fucking weird, they should

definitely have him play like
play a serial killer in something.

Good news, David Fincher
agreed with you and made him

definitely the killer in Zodiac.

So if you wanna see him be creepy in
more movies, definitely check out Zodiac.

Jeremy: I got that energy.

Ben the Kahn: oh.

He's so big and creepy in this.

He got that like stout strength where
nothing about him looks like he goes to

the gym, but he also looks like he can
absolutely rip you apart with his bare

hands and barely be trying while doing so.

Pru.

It's a weird motherfucker who's like, Hey,
wanna hear about how I killed my wife?

Because he doesn't know what good
dinner party conversation is.

Or maybe he does.

I don't know.

Your jam, maybe your jam is weird.

Yeah.

So Will's wandering around.

He's having memories he's also seeing
weird shit like Eden just being

all in in some culty stuff about.

Just controlling your emotions through
sheer will and slapping Ben and finding

barbiturates in people's cabinets.

It's some weird shit.

David locks the door and Will is
like, Hey David, why you doing that?

Don't do that.

Are you gonna kill us David?

and David just keeps telling,
will that he is harshing the buzz.

it, , is it some real like low key
gaslighting where David is constantly

just doing the most suspect and creepy
things and then judging will for Will

rightfully calling him out on it?

Jeremy: Yeah, it's real like, He
was like, man, why can't you just be

fucking cool Will Will's like, I would
be cool if you'd stop locking us in

your house and taking the key and shit.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah, like.

Will's just like, Hey, why is your big
creepy cold wife killer friend here?

That's weird.

And fucking David's just like,
look, I know you're freaked.

I know you're sad about
your son dying, but be cool.

David sucks in this fucking hate to.

Hey, David.

Jeremy: he's, he's, he's bad at not being
creepy on top of everything, like, you

Ben the Kahn: Michelle
Husman does a fantastic job.

Like it is a very good acting
performance, but David is a truly

detestable villain in this film.

It is good.

It's a good movie.

So yeah, so David and Eden
eventually tell them all about this.

Little group.

Him and Pruitt and Sadie are called are
in, called The Invitation, which if you

don't remember, is the title of the movie
and is supposedly a grief support group,

which is also where David and Eden met.

David and I will say this is the one
moment that I did really relate to David.

Not so much.

He plays a video that's
just a woman dying.

It's just a woman's last
breaths and then she dies.

That's not the part I find relatable.

What I do find relatable is putting
a video on for friends, really

overhyping it more than I should,
and just having to watch their faces.

I'm realizing this video
is bombing with them.

Jeremy: Trying to show Flight
of the Concords to my parents.

Ben the Kahn: Oh, just like, oh no.

Especially when you realize like
you're gonna love this clip.

You're like, trust me, this
shit, this is gonna be great.

And just realizing that it
is just nothing blank faces,

I die inside.

Jeremy: I remember distinctly Alicia
putting on the first episode of

Flight to the Concord for my parents,
and then asking if they wanted to

see another, and my dad's reaction
was, I didn't do anything wrong.

You can't make me.

Ben the Kahn: No.

Was it part of it?

Just like they heard New Zealand accents
and just immediately checked out?

Jeremy: I don't know.

I don't know if it was, is that,
or it's just too weird for them,

Ben the Kahn: I

Jeremy: if it was the
musical aspect, I'm not sure.

Ben the Kahn: Fair.

I don't know what I expected from
my mother watching everywhere all at

once, but I feel like I should have
expected her top line note to just

be, didn't like the butt plug scene.

Jeremy: I despite hyping up
everywhere, everything everywhere,

all at once to everybody.

I have not mentioned it to my parents
once because I know that their reaction

is going cause friction between us.

Ben the Kahn: Just, oh no, it's great.

It's because, no, it never causes friction
because the movie just goes completely

over their fucking heads in every way.

Jeremy: Yeah,

Ben the Kahn: Ah.

That's, that is why I'm a firm believer
in subtexts for cowards because even

when it's text, people still won't
fucking get it if they really don't want

to signed every racist Star Trek fan.

Jeremy: absolutely.

Ben the Kahn: So after David shows
just a stuff film and everyone's like,

Hey, that's pretty weird, even if
you're giving us 8 million wine and

they respond with culty stuff and party
games, which is instead of Never have I

Ever, they play, I Want Where they say
the rules is say what you wanna do, and

then people that wanna do a drink, but
really just turns into people saying

what they wanna do and then doing it.

So like cocaine or kissing or
cocaine and kissing in Gina's case.

Jeremy: Somebody blanked to kiss cocaine.

Ben the Kahn: yeah.

And Bruin gets into is like, I wanna
tell you, I want to bring the moon

down on this party so fucking hard.

And we get the whole wife murder story.

It's awful.

Again, in a good horror movie kind
of way and is very understandably

ready to note the fuck on outta here.

Claire's done.

She wants out.

David is not chill about it.

Very pressury, but eventually does
roulette when will uh, stands up for

Claire and then Pruitt falls her out
and we don't quite see what happens to

Claire, but I'm guessing it's not good.

Jeremy: Oh yeah, I think Claire.

Said

Ben the Kahn: Oh, Claire's
a hundred percent Ted.

Jeremy: cuz we will find out later.

Pruit has no issue with
continuing to murder people.

And the last time we see Claire,
she is talking to Pruitt and

then Pruitt returns to the party.

Ben the Kahn: This cult's deal is their
belief in the afterlife is so absolute

that it makes murder completely okay.

Jeremy: Yeah, It's like the drinking,
the Kool-Aid, offing yourself to

go on to whatever other life thing.

Except also, I guess you get bonus
points for however many people

you take with you at the time.

Ben the Kahn: It's kind of like if the
Egyptian pharaohs, how they would have

like servants and stuff buried with them
in their pyramids to serve them in death.

But the Pharaoh had to
kill them himself first.

Jeremy: And they were just your buddies
who were unwilling to be murdered,

Ben the Kahn: Yeah.

Jeremy: at least not knowing
that they were being murdered.

Ben the Kahn: and they're also
just your obnoxious very la like

upper class LA Hollywood friends.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben the Kahn: Will has a line in the
movie when they approach the house and

Kira has a line about like disbelief that
will lived like that lived in a house.

This nice and Will explains
that it's Eden's family who had

the money and it was never his.

And yet, despite saying that you can
clearly see Will is in every room he is

in haunted by the life that he had and cl
and thinks and like and should still have.

It is good it's a very haunting
powerful portrayal of grief.

Will,

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben the Kahn: You know,

Jeremy: And then we get sort of this
long, this thing with Choi, which ends

up being a red herring of like Choi

Ben the Kahn: up being
a complete red herring.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Their friend Choi is late to the party
and nobody's heard from him because

like cell service is really bad there.

Ben the Kahn: Of course, I did think
to myself, oh, cell service, they

don't get cell service up here.

Everyone take a drink.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Yeah.

We'll, we'll text his phone at one point
and he's gotten a message from Choi,

and it's like that Choi arrived early.

So like he wanted him to go by
and, grab some stuff for him,

but like Choi isn't there.

So clearly they've done something
that Choi, but then as soon

as like he confronts everybody
about it, just rolls up.

Which doesn't mean they're not all
murderers, they just aren't murderers yet.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah, it is.

And then they really do
play it up the whole movie.

So it is a very effective tension
buildup of what the fuck happened to joy.

And then it's such a weird fuckup
that I expected Troy to be in

on and pull like a scream twist.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben the Kahn: it is just a
complete fucking red herring.

Any who's will walks around.

You see Sadie making weird mirror faces.

Offers to just bang him
like right by the pool.

It's weird.

It's weird.

Sadie's weird.

And and Will is rightfully
just creeped out by everything.

Tommy comes out, assures him
that, LA people just be LA people.

Sometimes they get into some calls.

We all been there.

No, you haven't.

Clearly you haven't lived
in the Hollywood Hills then.

Sorry.

Sorry I lost my place.

Sorry

Jeremy: all sort of culminates
in this like dinner scene.

Ben the Kahn: Yes, we get a great,
between this and Salem, we've

gotten to see some great tents.

Everyone's fucking on edge and
has secrets dinner scenes where

people just explode on one another.

Will just freaks the fuck out.

He is found and smashes wine
glasses, thinking they're poisoned.

David lights, a red lantern creepily
because fucking Michelle Husman does

everything creepily in this movie
and in kind of every role he's in.

If I'm being honest.

If I'm being honest, anytime Mike Michelle
Husman shows up, even when he is the main

character, I'm I'm not sure about you.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben the Kahn: but he smashes
the wine glass thinking it's

poisoned, which it is cuz Gina
immediately dies of poisoned wine.

And David, David shoots joy.

Sadie attacks will and
gets knocked the fuck out.

Miguel, who did we know?

Miguel was the doctor before this scene.

Jeremy: I think so.

I don't know.

It's one of

Ben the Kahn: did identify apelle.

He did identify a pill by onsite,
is that a thing doctors can do?

I don't know.

Why

Jeremy: I believe it.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah, absolutely.

But yeah David shoots
Miguel they all flee.

Ben makes it outta the house, but
just gets knifed the fuck out.

And then we honestly get to the biggest
twist in the movie, which Tommy survives.

Tommy survives a movie, and the whole
movies really set up to be like, will

and Kira are gonna be the only people
that have a shot at making out of this.

And then Tommy comes in, Tommy takes out
Cox, ah, Tommy takes out Sadie with a

fucking fire Poker Kira takes out Pruitt
with a, I think it was a wine bottle.

Was that, was it a wine bottle?

I couldn't

Jeremy: Yeah.

She beats the living shit out
of him with a wine bottle.

Ben the Kahn: She beats
the living shit out of him.

Eden Shoots will into the shoulder
and then feels so bad she commits

suicide by gut shot, which for the
record, one of the, probably the worst

place to shoot yourself in, don't I?

Don't shoot yourself in the gut.

Don't shoot yourself, period.

But definitely not in the gut.

That is a horrible way to go.

That will take you through the
entirety of Reservoir Dogs.

That was the plot of Reservoir Dogs
was just the time it took for Mr.

Orange to bleed out
after getting got shot.

Think about how long that movie is.

Jeremy: Alicia's theory about this
was that she shoots herself in the gut

because it's symbolic of their dead
child and her, her mourning for him,

Ben the Kahn: It is.

It is a thousand percent, but it's also.

Jeremy: a bad way

Ben the Kahn: Don't do it bad way to die.

Very simple.

No, she did it for the vibes.

And don't get me wrong, Eden seems like a
character who would do it for the vibes.

I'm just saying don't do it.

Bad way to go.

Um, which honestly, now that we do
this summary makes me realize will,

does nothing to stop the attackers.

Kira and Tommy get the Kos.

Tommy gets two kills.

Fucking Tommy ends up being the MVP of

Jeremy: like he.

He goes head to head with David for
a while and I think, you know, keeps

David from, from doing the murdering.

But I think, yeah, Tommy ultimately

Ben the Kahn: yeah, Tommy goes one-on-one
fucking wrestles the knife out and get

and gets to like David with it and.

So the movie ends with Will Kira and Tommy
being our unlikely trio of survivors as

they stumble out, finally thinking they're
safe until they look out at the Hollywood

Ru Hills and realize it is covered in more
red lanterns, indicating that Colt, that

like Manson family shit has been going
on all night and LA is just overwhelmed

in sirens and screams and dog barks.

Jeremy: Some helicopters.

Yeah, it's uh,

Ben the Kahn: It feels like a little
needless escalation, horror cliffhanger,

but the imagery of them staring out
into a hill of ominous red lights

is a very effective final image.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I, I had seen this one before.

I, I remembered like the
red lanterns being a, a more

prevalent thing toward the end.

There's still enough of it to
be troubling, but I, I felt

like at the end they were just like

Ben the Kahn: lanterns.

I did check for the post credit
scene thinking a trusted this was

gonna come down, but we did not get
that crossover, which makes sense.

Jeremy: not this time.

Ben the Kahn: Let's be honest.

It's no, I mean, that movie came out
in 2011 and they're only now even

Dar to bring 'em back to the screen.

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, funnily enough,
I think this movie in Green Lantern

made the same amount of money soon.

Ben the Kahn: Ew.

Jeremy: Oh,

Ben the Kahn: Shots fired to nobody.

I don't think anybody, I don't think
anybody who made that movie, that movie.

Jeremy: I've seen this movie
two more times than I've seen

Green Lantern, which I've seen no

Ben the Kahn: movie.

Meanwhile to talk about the movie that we
are here to talk about, this movie should

be defended because it is a good movie.

I quite enjoyed it.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben the Kahn: it to be a very tense, very
psychologically disturbing well-paced

with very nice, low-key cash diversity.

Jeremy: Yeah.

The only problem I have with
this, and I think this is the

same problem that Alicia had.

Is that, uh, the character of Kira, we
didn't mention through talking about

this movie, uh, she is black and that
is almost clearly a thing that was done

in casting or a thing that they decided
on after make, like, after writing the

movie because it's made no reference to.

And I like not to make any sort
of like generalizations, but.

There is no point in the culty weird
shit of this movie that my, my black

wife or any of her family members
would've been like, no, this is fine.

Which seems to be Kira's vibe through
the first two thirds of the movie.

It's

Ben the Kahn: Kiara is way too cool
with everything going on for way too

Jeremy: yeah, Kira is the only black
person in this like house full of.

Mostly white and two Asian people where
there's clearly like cult shit going on.

And like she does not express
any reservations whatsoever.

And in fact is like on Will's
shit about his own reservations.

Ben the Kahn: That's true.

Like it is a will whose Spidey
sense is going off and for a while

it's kind of Kira being the chip.

Being like, God, honey, calm down
about being freaked out that your

ex-wife is now weirdly mortally creepy,
not concerned about your dead son.

Jeremy: It's so weird their relationship
because they come to the party together.

They're clearly dating, they've been
together for some amount of time.

Her and Will, and like she once
they get there, he like, I.

Tours around the house and the party
going from place to place and they

do not talk him and like Kira do
not talk for like two thirds of the

Ben the Kahn: goes on a private grief tour

Jeremy: Yeah.

And at no point does she like show up
to check on him and see like, Hey, are

you cool wandering around this house
where you used to live with your wife

and your ex-wife and your dad's son?

Uh,

Ben the Kahn: was it?

Was it Sadie who just goes right
to him and says like, so you and

Kira aren't working out, huh?

Jeremy: Uh, it's so

Ben the Kahn: people, like people that
know them for like 10 minutes can know

like, Hey, so y'all got no chemistry.

You know that right.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I, she's clearly just like for all the
good character writing in this movie.

Kira is way underwritten.

She is, is not, she's just written
as sort of the girlfriend character.

She honestly doesn't
even need to be there.

Ben the Kahn: I feel like
the girlfriend is there.

Just so will isn't overly emasculated
by the very premise of the movie.

Jeremy: Yeah, just so

Ben the Kahn: being in like cuz
otherwise, cuz if Will doesn't have a

girlfriend then there's an extra level
of humiliation to be going to your

ex-wife and her husband's Mu, who are
much richer than you's dinner party.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And she's really just there for him
to talk to, like, to explain the

things that we as an audience need
to know which is, is not good rating.

Ben the Kahn: Or to get.

I didn't mention it, but we get
a scene where Will has to hits a

coyote and has to put it out and,
you know, has to hit it with a tire

iron to put it out of his misery.

And correct me if you got anything
out of this this scene seemed to have

no thematic bearing or symbolism on
Will's character, on his backstory

or character arc in any way.

Jeremy: Yeah, I, I don't know.

I mean, I feel like this is kind

Ben the Kahn: Is this just supposed,

Jeremy: kind of lazy symbolism.

Ben the Kahn: it's supposed to be like,
oh, well his son was killed with a

bat, and a tire iron is of like a bat,

Jeremy: I don't, I don't know if it's
supposed to be just lazy symbolism

Ben the Kahn: it

seems like it's just a mood setter.

But yeah, like the coyote scene.

Seems to be nothing because if anything,
you then have like, if anything, it

seems to inform Kira's character arc
as she goes from recoiling at something

being hit over the head, bludgeon
to death, to being the bludgeon her

Jeremy: Yeah.

Yeah.

That's her character arc is going from
it's awful that you have to kill this

dog to like this human needs to die.

Ben the Kahn: yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah, so

Ben the Kahn: Also, I mean that Coyote
is way more sympathetic than Pruit.

I bet that Coyote never
fucking killed its coyote wife.

Jeremy: and that feels so much like
there's so many movies like Get Out and

dozens of other movies where somebody
is driving and, and hits an animal very

symbolically and it's usually a deer.

And it feels like somebody wrote that
as a deer and then they were like, fuck,

this is, this is la I guess it's a coyote.

Lemme.

That's what you might hit right in la.

Sure.

Yeah.

So, it doesn't really like it, it's cast
well in that they have a diverse cast

of people they bring in, but they don't
pay a great deal of attention to like,

I don't know, ma making those casts.

That casting makes sense.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah, no, I mean it's more
just like, just kind of reflecting this

naturally, this like diverse LA upper
crust, which you know, definitely exists.

You know, it's the kind of thing
where, you know, the, this movie is

not about gender, it's not about race.

But, I do appreciate that.

Like, it's cer I certainly appreciate
them doing this instead of this friends

group just being all white people.

There's nothing that could have stopped
this movie from being all white people.

So just the fact that they, took the
time and effort to make sure that they.

That wasn't the case.

It's, I enjoy it.

Like I enjoy just that, it being a more
diverse harm movie, at least in casting.

And, if it's not gonna be the content
of the story, then I still appreciate

it being reflected in casting.

Jeremy: There's, and there's.

Definitely some elements
of class stuff in there.

As far as, you know, them being sort
of this rich upper class couple who's

sort of, even though their friends
are sort of upper middle class,

they're like really a step above

Ben the Kahn: Well, we never, we
know David is a record producer and

Miguel is a doctor, and then we never
learn what any of the others do.

They're just.

Vaguely Yuppy LA people.

La

Jeremy: Yeah.

I think choice as his, his job has
something to do with it or programming.

Because that's why he is, ends up
being late, is he has to go back to

help with

Ben the Kahn: heard him say like,
I got a work call and then I

just assumed he was on the phone
dealing with that for two hours.

Jeremy: Yeah.

That's presumably what it is.

How do you feel like it, it does,
as far as being a feminist film?

Ben the Kahn: Again, it is the
kind of thing where I do appreciate

the gender parody in the cast.

You know, you have Gina, like,
you have Gina, Claire, Kira, like.

This is not a situation where one
character has to represent the woman.

You get everything from, the
pragmatic person who knocked the

fuck out to a total victim, to a
badass survivor, to the villain.

I would say so.

I do always, always
appreciate, that level of.

You know, when there's that many women
characters or that many as many minority

characters in there, like nobody
has to be as defined by that status.

So I always appreciate that, how it
let, how a certain level of low key of

just, I think just in the background
diversity just lets people be people

more than have to be defined by it.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I mean, I do

Ben the Kahn: it's really Eden.

Gotta look at Eden.

I think for.

Feminism in this movie?

Jeremy: I do also appreciate that
on the like side of being being

feminist in a way that is, is,
being not toxically masculine.

You do have.

At the center of this story of grief
about losing a child, and it's not

about the mom being, you know, torn
up about it and the dad being kind of

fine or whatever, or, you know, the dad

doesn't like shut himself off
and not feel things like is is

Ben the Kahn: If

Jeremy: the case with

Ben the Kahn: it is,

it is the opposite.

Where will, for as flawed as it is,
is trying to feel and move on in a

truthful, on, in a truthful, honest,
that look at those fucking totally

not redundant synonyms in a more.

Emotionally, emotionally raw,
yet fruitful, if painful way.

Whereas it's Eden who's trying to shut
herself off, just deny herself the

emotions that are clearly, Eden has just
built up these walls, this emotional dam.

And the whole movie, you can just
see it like it is cracked to fuck up

and back and it is just threatening.

And that damn holding back all
these emotions is just threatening

to crumble at any moment.

And this movie's great at building
tension like, because that almost

becomes a ticking time bomb on its own.

It's just like, when are we gonna, like,
when is Eden just gonna let it all loose?

Jeremy: Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and if she does, I think
it's an unfortunate time for her.

Ben the Kahn: Yes.

Jeremy: yeah, she, she
she is all, all aboard to.

Quietly murder everybody with poison.

But the point where they start
shooting people, she's like, it's

not supposed to be like this.

Is, is not as, not quite
as happy with that.

Um,

Ben the Kahn: we, as we discussed,
Eden is all about the vibes, and

these are very different vibes.

Jeremy: yeah.

Shooting people very VAD vibes.

Ben the Kahn: have gone from Anthony
and Cleopatra to Manson family,

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben the Kahn: as far as the vibe
check goes, quite different vibes.

Jeremy: Yeah.

How do we feel about the
gay representation in here?

We do have a, we do have gay
representation in this movie.

We have a gay couple not the heart
of it, but a, a major part of it.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah, I mean, I.

A, it's realistic in Hollywood Hills.

Say what you will.

I've absolutely met guys like them in
la those dudes exist a hundred percent.

Again, I enjoyed that they still,
that they were given, despite being

supporting characters, they were
given a great amount of agency.

I mean, again, Miguel is.

The one character we get a kind
of, you know, whose backstory

plays a role like that.

He is a doctor.

Tommy fights back act more
than anybody, including Will.

Tom, Tommy really takes agency
into his own hands and ends up

one of the survivors, which I
guess retroactively proving one

of the scream four rules, right?

I'm gonna say, Having now seen a few
movie, other movies, I'm gonna say

the rule is if you are queer in a
horror movie, one of you will survive.

If you are the one queer character,
you are probably in Locke.

If there's multiple queer characters,
only one of you is making it out.

Jeremy: that, that sounds
probably more accurate.

Ben the Kahn: yes, they have figured
out that you only need to keep one

alive to avoid better your gays.

Jeremy: Yeah, I think the only way
that two queer characters make it

out of a horror movie is if the
goal of the movie is for one of

them to find the other one and save

Ben the Kahn: Yes.

Yes.

Jeremy: And then I, I guess the
other question would be how do

we feel that this movie did dealt
with like mental health stuff?

I mean, certainly it deals with a

Ben the Kahn: I mean, that's the heart.

I mean, that's the heart of the movie.

That's.

That's the big enchilada is grief.

It's the, and I think it's what the
movie so masterfully depicts is cuz

really it's only kind of the last 20
minutes or so where it becomes like

this survival horror where like they
are truly under threat of death and have

to fight their way out of this house.

Which normally would be a criticism if
the first hour 20 of this movie does not,

didn't do such a good job pulling off
such a tense, unnerving like atmosphere

that really just kept you guessing.

And that's all, just through
how will's grief is depicted.

I mean, I like how there's like
no transitions into flashback.

You're just reliving.

That passed along with him.

Jeremy: Yeah, he's just, you know,
he's seeing things and being in rooms.

Suddenly his, his son is there with him.

I think it's very effective.

Ben the Kahn: like it's
paced very well too.

Like the first time you see the kid
in that like the first flashback,

there's no reason to think you were
in a flashback where like to the

point where you're wondering like,
wait, where's happened to the kid?

We just saw the kid.

Don't they have a kid in the house?

Where's that?

And then you.

The movie does a good job giving you
the breadcrumbs to piece it together

yourself before we get to a fit.

The big official like, ah, baseball bat.

Jeremy: Yeah, I think this would
be a very interesting movie to see.

Not going into it, expecting it
to be a horror movie, you know?

Ben the Kahn: Yeah,

Jeremy: if you just thought it
was a drama and then it just takes

that turn in the last 20 minutes,
that would be really interesting.

Ben the Kahn: 20 minutes is definitely
what puts it squarely in horror territory.

But I feel like that first hour 20,
like it's so tense and like the blow and

like those blowups and just the way his
emotions are just constantly being used

against him and get, and just like reality
questioned out from under his feet.

At the very least in like thriller
territory, drama thriller.

There is, I mean, as much as it ends
up just being a red herring, everything

with Troy, like, it's very effective.

And again, Logan Marshall Green does
a very good job of someone who's

just like, sense of reality is just
crumbling beneath his feet and he

doesn't know, and he doesn't know if
he should be trusting himself or not.

Very good chunk of this movie, even
while everything screams in his face

that he is, that his instincts are right.

Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely.

Ben the Kahn: like, and when Joy
does show up, like, like cuz again,

it, it's seeded so much through the
movie and then you get that message.

I really thought that is
like, oh fuck, here it is.

This is when the movie turns and then
when Joy shows up, like does show up

with a perfectly innocent explanation.

I like, I felt un a little bit unmoored.

Like I knew it still was probably murdery.

But it is a very effect.

Like it does kind of, if you don't
know it's coming, I think, you

know, I was right there with Will.

The character just feeling thrown off.

Jeremy: The movie kind of
gaslights you as a, as a viewer.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah.

Jeremy: It's like,
yeah, this is important.

This whole thing with Cho,
this is very important.

You're gonna wanna keep an eye on that.

And then it's like, ah, why did you think
there was something wrong with Troy?

No, it's fine man.

What were you thinking?

Oh no, it is murder.

Ben the Kahn: yeah.

What's the line?

We get the Flakies Korean in la

Jeremy: Yeah,

Ben the Kahn: which I'm
like, is that a stereotype?

Is that an anti stereotype?

I don't know what you're
trying to say here, Miguel.

Jeremy: I don't know enough stereotypes
about Koreans in LA for this to click.

Ben the Kahn: I've been to enough
standup shows to know people just make up

fucking like stereotypes at their asses.

Jeremy: Yeah.

So, uh, I think it's fair to say we
probably both recommend this one, right.

Ben the Kahn: Oh yeah, definitely.

Oh, and also I do just wanna say in
terms of mental health, it's not just

will, like we do see Eden, like we get
a flashback to Eden's suicide attempt.

And you know, while she's definitely
one of the villains, like I do feel

the movie has a lot of sympathy still
for Eden and really to picture as.

You know, like whereas David is just
portrayed as an out and out villain,

I feel like Eden is portrayed as
a tragic victim of her own grief.

Jeremy: Yeah, I think so too.

I mean, she's definitely depicted as
somebody who gets pulled into this cult

and all their shit by like being so caught
up in her own grief that she, you know,

as so many people to get into cults.

Like they don't see the horrible weirdness
of it because they're so distraught or.

Dealing with, with such
heavy stuff themselves.

Ben the Kahn: You know, another
good showing of how fucking, just

awful people will just prey on
people going through grief, who've

lost control and all of that.

Jeremy: yeah.

And talking.

Ben the Kahn: important that we got
those flashbacks though, like when

they were in the bath just to show us
who Eden was, in the life before like.

That her and Will had like in the life
before when their son was still alive.

And I do think it was just important
for us to see those, even if they, it

wasn't long just bits of who Eden was.

So we can fully appreciate just how
her fucking rocker, her behavior

is when we meet her in present day.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I think without that we might not know
just how how much she has changed,

how much it's unsettling to, to
will, and the other people there.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah, it's an
important bit of storytelling,

like just to give us that.

I think our, I think the audience's
understanding of the character would

be a lot less comprehensive with that.

I think it's a pretty necessary piece.

Yeah, I, I think it's absolutely
fair to say that we would

both recommend this movie

Jeremy: And speaking of Karen
Kosama, I mean, we've also both

highly recommended Jennifer's body.

If people haven't listened to
the first episode of this podcast

it's a very different movie.

The Mood, the vibes in that one
are as different as can be from the

invitation, but, uh, I adore that movie.

Ben the Kahn: here so she can't rain
on our loving Jennifer's body parade.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben the Kahn: It's a great fucking movie.

Jeremy: Yeah.

An incredibly

Ben the Kahn: Emily.

It's an amazing fucking movie.

If you disagree, say something.

Fucking see.

Amazing movie.

Jeremy: Yeah I love it.

I mean, we've talked about it,
ad nauseum on that first episode.

I think the other big
thing that ties into.

You know, the horror side of things is
she is both a director on a few episodes

and a producer of yellow jackets,
which I know you're a big fan of.

Ben the Kahn: I am a huge
fan of Yellow Jackets.

If you haven't seen Yellow
Jackets, absolutely check it out.

As a recording.

The second season just started.

It is.

Stephen King meets lost.

It is a wonderful cast, thrilling plots.

It is shilling, mysterious, ah, just
all the good things if you like.

Just like thrilling mysteries
and creepy plots, absolutely.

Check out Yellow Jackets.

Can't recommend it enough,

Jeremy: Yeah, I, I still have not cut up
with yellow jackets, but, uh, I've heard

a lot of good things and it sounds like
something I'm very much gonna enjoy once

I, I get the time to sit down with it.

Ben the Kahn: Watching Yellow
Jackets really does make me

appreciate how the survivors on
last were in fucking easy mode,

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben the Kahn: yellow jackets.

They're landing in like the
fucking Canadian forest.

Like their most experience they have is
like one fucking like arguably psychotic

girl who took a few first aid classes.

The lost, that plane goes down.

They're in a tropical island
where they have wanton choice

of fish, fruit and boar.

They crash.

They're like, oh, good.

We have the world renowned spinal surgeon.

A survival hunting expert.

A guy who specializes in communications
technology, what do you do?

You were raised in a fishing village
and Noah and are an expert fisherman.

Fantastic.

Everything the lost people
needed, they got, and the girls

in yellow jackets get none of it.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Yeah, that's that's one I'm
excited about checking out.

I think the other big horror thing
that Karen Kael has been involved

in is xx, which I don't know think
we've actually talked about on here,

but we'll have to at some point.

It's, uh, an anthology movie with
a series of like horror shorts

all directed by women in horror.

So like, definitely check that one out.

Her, her segment is great in that,
but the whole movie is really great.

So it's, it's definitely worth.

Getting in on that taking all
those things off the table.

I mean, since we've already talked
about 'em, uh, Ben, is there anything

else you'd like to recommend to people

Ben the Kahn: No, yellow

Jeremy: just just Yellow jackets,

Ben the Kahn: You put me on the
spot and I got fucking nothing.

Jeremy: No, I think, I think
Yellow Jackets will keep people

busy for more than enough time.

You know, we're trying to cover people
who, who have more like credits and

everything in horror at this point.

Um, so I was gonna recommend a, a
film by someone who has significantly

fewer credits, but that I think
is definitely worth a look.

If you guys haven't seen Amma,
it's directed by Iris k Shim.

It came out I think just last year.

It is it's an okay horror movie.

But it's got Sandra o in it and
I mean, Sandra o is always worth

watching and the horror movies, it's
okay, but it's does deal with like

specifically specifically with Asian
American issues and family issues and,

and stuff like that, that like, We
don't visit too much in horror films.

And is is definitely, uh,
worth the time to check out.

It's about 90 minutes long
and it's it's really solid.

And it's, you know, Irish K
Shin's, I think first horror movie.

It might be her directorial debut.

Ben the Kahn: Oh, nice.

Jeremy: Let me see if
I'm yeah, I, I might be.

Yeah, it's the first, it's
the first one I've seen.

I don't know, she might have
one other, she's got a couple of

short films but this is the first
like large release one she's had.

So definitely worth

Ben the Kahn: Check it on out.

Jeremy: Yeah.

All right.

I think that, uh, that does it for us.

If you wanna find out more about,
uh, us and what we are doing, uh,

you can check out Emily at Mega
Moth on Twitter mega underscore moth

on Instagram and at mega moth net.

Ben is on Twitter, Ben the Con, and
on their website@benconcomics.com,

and you can pick up their
books, including pre-ordering.

L Campbell wins their weekend their debut
middle grades novel from Scholastic.

And for me.

You can find me on Twitter and
Instagram at Jerome 58 and on

my website@jeremywhitley.com.

We can check out everything that I
write, including my brand new graphic

novel, the Dog Knight, which I

Ben the Kahn: Woo.

Woo.

Jeremy: Brean to go illustrated.

When you're listening to this,
it is, uh, mere days from

coming out, so check it out.

Ben the Kahn: Yeah.

Jeremy: and of course, the podcast
is on Patreon at Progressively

horrified our website at
Progressively Horrified Transistor fm.

Prong Horror Pod.

We, we would love to hear from you.

And speaking of loving to hear
from you wherever you're listening

to this, we would love it if you
would rate and review it so that

other people can find the podcast.

Giving us five stars helps the, uh, them
recommend it to other folks to listen to.

So we would love it if
you would do that for us.

Ben the Kahn: Give us them stars.

Needs some.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Next week we should have a
bigger crew back in the house

because we will be talking about.

And what we do in the shadows.

The original film, not the TV
show, though I'm sure we'll

talk about the TV show as well.

But the, if you haven't seen the film
as well, it's one of my favorites and

you should absolutely check it out.

Ben the Kahn: Oh my God.

I am so fucking excited to talk.

What we do in the shadows
next week is, Holy fuck.

One of my favorite movies ever.

Jeremy: yeah, it's really great.

And one of, uh, one of Tewa Titi is
like, Actual onscreen acting credits

where he is not playing a rock man.

Or Adolf Hitler.

Ben the Kahn: Or Rock Hitler.

Jeremy: sure.

That's, that sounds
like a horrible musical.

Ben the Kahn: It does.

Jeremy: is that just the

Ben the Kahn: I would not,
I would not go watch it.

Jeremy: Yeah, that's, that's just
the mo that's just the play they're

putting on in the producers.

Ben the Kahn: What they made.

Bloody Andrew Jackson.

You telling me we can, you can
make a musical about one genocidal

world leader, but not another.

Where's the line?

Broadway.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did I just fucking drop a real ass take?

Jeremy: We'll leave you

Ben the Kahn: Yeah.

Jeremy: note.

Until next time, stay horrified.