Alicia: Hey, just a heads up the episode
you're about to listen to is about

the fly directed by David Cronenberg.

Some relevant trigger warnings for
this movie include extreme body horror.

Lake extreme body horror, forced
pregnancy nightmarish, depiction of

abortion, dissolving of living human
skin and bone gaslighting, a depiction

of an abusive working relationship,
prolific gore and extreme animal cruelty.

And our host ranked this movie as.

If you'd like to learn more
about the movie, discuss this

evening, please visit our website.

Progressively horrified.transistor.fm
for show notes.

After the spooky music.

We'll talk about the movie in full.

So before a warrant,
There will be spoilers.

Now let's get onto the show.

Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified the podcast,

Royal Old Horror, Progressive
Standards it never agreed to.

Tonight we're talking about
another film in our chron number.

We're still working on that.

Uh, Crow Vember, Hmm, Crow
Vember catalog with one of

Ben: the most that makes it sound
like we're doing movies about grows,

Jeremy: right?

? Yeah.

There's so many, so many crows.

That's what we'll have to do for
Crow Ember next year is, is take up.

Yeah.

The crow.

tonight we're talking about one
of Kornberg's most beloved and

esteemed films into the fly.

I am your host Jeremy Whitley.

With me tonight, I have a
panel of chil and c bikes.

First they're here to challenge the
sexy werewolf, sexy vampire binary.

My co-host Ben Kahn.

Ben, how are you tonight?

Ben: feeling a little robbed.

We didn't get a movie about a
house fly, slowly transforming

into a tiny Jeff Goldblum.

Emily: Yeah, help me,

Ben: Help me

Jeremy: and the sentiment role of
CNA Bites, our co-host Emily Martin.

How, And I, Emily,

Emily: I'm remembering how
much of this movie I have.

I've forgotten cuz there's so
much of this movie that I remember.

And then I just forget the rest because
it just is too problematic for me.

Jeremy: And our guest night.

They are a fellow writer,
critic, and podcaster.

You can hear them on their own.

Podcast, graphic policy,
and Star Trek Deep Space.

Nine Podcast, Deep Space Dive.

It's Elana Levin.

Elana, how are you?

Elana: I am so ready to be
here and spend my spooky film

critic moment with this show.

You have a great lineup going.

And I basically insinuated myself.

I was like, You're doing a Cronenberg
thing, . And then you offered me two

movies that I didn't particularly wanna
see by him, and here we are today.

And I was like, Is it so he has so many
films that that's a possible thing that

you could be like, Oh, I love Koberg.

And they'd be like, I don't really do
want do that one or that one . But here

we're nonetheless, That's what I'm saying.

I saw the fly for you.

And that's a, you know,

Ben: friendship.

Elana: I mean, like, I, I know that
this is never gonna be an M Butterfly

podcast, you know, Nor nor would I be the
guest you would have for that per se, on

account of my extreme levels of whiteness.

But if there were the time to come

Jeremy: you'll in, if we do naked,

Elana: No, I am So if you
do Naked Lunch , please.

Jeremy: I mean, it doesn't make
any sense for us to do Naked

Lunch, but if we do, you know.

Elana: But that's what
I mean though, right?

Like there's all these movies
that are just not quite in the

horror lane that I'm like, Yeah.

And then it's like, Oh, actually no.

I I have seen video Drone twice
recently, and I still love it.

I really wanna rewatch,
Crash and Exist 10.

And I was like, so hoping that
I'd have the, I mean this is,

this October isn't a particularly
crash month, but maybe Exist 10.

I don't know.

I don't know what I was thinking.

Of course it was gonna be a horror
movie, . And I'm like, Oh yeah.

Huh.

Jeremy: If you haven't seen Crimes of the
Future yet, we, we did that last week.

It's very ex existen.

Emily: It is, It is.

So Cronenberg

Ben: burg, like a lot.

I liked it more than the fly.

Jeremy: I liked it less.

Ben: I think I was more into this movie
when it was like plucky, underdog,

scientist, like romantic comedy.

Jeremy: I'll go ahead and, uh, I
drew the short straw this week,

so I'm gonna try and recap the
fly as quickly as possible here.

Uh, The basics of this, it is directed
by David Cronenberg, as we said.

It is uh, based on a short story
written by George Langland uh, a

screenplay by Charles Edward Po.

And David Cronenberg, and it stars
Jeff Goldblum, Geena Davis, John

Getz, and not too many other people.

There's very few.

People in this cast.

We begin with Seth Brundle, played by
Jeff Goldblum, talking about how he's

working on, what he is working on is, as
a scientist, is going to change the world.

Like we jump right into this.

Uh, He immediately uses this research
as an excuse to get science journalist

Veronica, who's played by Geena Davis
back to his grungy warehouse lab.

Uh, And he sells the hell out of it.

She actually goes, He shows Veronica
his teleos uh, which he makes fun of for

looking like new age phone booths until
he demonstrates that they can teleport her

stocking across the room between two pods.

She wants to report on it and Seth does
not want her to, cuz he doesn't feel

like it's ready for prime time yet.

Can't teleport people in it yet.

Her boss Stathis played by John Getz.

Doesn't believe any of this.

Thinks uh, he's conning her.

Won't publish it also.

We'll get into this, but
Stathis is the worst person.

Seth takes Veronica out for a cheeseburger
and convinces her to not report on

an exchange for giving her unlimited
access to write a book once he is able

to teleport himself across the room.

We learned that Stathis in Veronica
used to be an item when he shows up to

shower at her apartment unannounced.

Brundle uh, tries to use his pod on a
uh, on a baboon and turns it inside out.

Everybody seems weirdly okay with this
other than like, conceptually they're

like, Oh, no, and then that's about it.

Here's where we get the real
Cronenbergy stuff as we start

talking about how he doesn't know
enough about the flesh to make the

teleporting of living things work.

He goes from really sciencey
to like the flesh is the thing.

Brundle reveals he doesn't always
wear the same outfit, just one of five

different identical ones uh, and because
she is a female journalist in a movie.

This, of course turns Veronica on and
she immediately starts sleeping with

her subject 23 minutes into the film.

He then feeds her a Teleporter steak
which is bad because the flesh oh,

Flesh Stathis, is, taken
this stalking Veronica.

It's unclear whether he is more
upset about the fact that uh, he's

screwing him as an editor or the
fact that she's fucking brundle.

Brundle finally manages not to
inside out a baboon, so they decide

to order Chinese food romantically.

But Stathis has sent her a cover
mock up about Brundle and his,

his story, which she is already
said, she wasn't going to publish.

Stathis in Veronica butt heads about it.

It turns out he's just doing it to
be creepy, so it's fine until he asks

her for sex and then that's not fine.

Uh, I hate that this guy . Our boy
uh, Brenda is not much better though.

He's getting drunk about his
girlfriend maybe seeing her ex Uh,

and he's started talking to this
one living baboon which leads him to

decide it's cool to drunk teleport.

And he doesn't notice that
there's a fly in there with him.

Oh no.

He's bad at life and science.

Oh, cool.

Stathis was also her journalism
professor before they started dating.

It's good to know that too.

Now Brel uh, has merged with his fly
and has all the powers that a fly

has, like weird hairs and catching
other flies and buying jewelry,

needing too much sugar, hyperactivity,
yelling at weight staff, Olympic level

gymnastics, Olympic Le Olympic level,
love making, really filling out briefs.

You know, this is just making me rethink
my disgust for flies, actually, but

that's gonna go right back out the door.

, he thinks uh, he's become superhuman
and wants her to teleport through

now too uh, because he doesn't
realize he's been fusd with the fly.

So they can be superhuman together.

As soon as he doesn't want to.

He decides he's gonna go out and find him.

Another lady to do that uh, he
goes looking for a girl at a

bar, at the bar from near dark.

Uh, Where he wins, he wins a
woman named t by breaking a man's

arm in an arm wrestling match.

He carries her up lots of stairs to his
lab, has weird sex with her, presumably,

and makes her watch him teleport before
trying to get her to do it herself.

She's not into it and he tries to
force her, but Veronica shows up to

tell him that the hairs on his back.

Uh, She got them analyzed
and they're not human.

They're insect hairs.

Seth is also getting harrier.

His face is breaking out.

He's uh, beating up walls for no
reason and being generally irrational.

Brundle finally looks in a mirror
and immediately decides to start

pulling off fingernails and
squirting goo out of his fingers.

He finally goes back and looks at the
logs of the teleportation, which he

hasn't ever done, and realizes that
the computer fused him with a fly.

Oops.

Seth then waits four weeks to ask
for help, which is the dues thing

he will do in his whole movie.

He's like, Oops.

Fused with a fly.

And then for four weeks, Just tries to, I
guess, handle it himself, but there's no

evidence that he does anything in between
there, but just start to turn into a fly.

By the time Veronica goes to see
him, his ear falls off and he's

puking up digestive enzyme enzymes.

Uh, He refuses to get medical
intervention, but wants

her to help him somehow.

Unclear.

Mm-hmm.

, he seeks out advice from the
worst person in the world.

Sta this again.

And he's like, he's got no good advice
except for, I guess, let me see.

I don't want to go there,
but could you tape it?

By the time she comes back again Brundle
is manic, literally climbing the walls and

talking about how the disease has revealed
his purpose in making him brundlefly.

He's eating via digestive enzymes now.

Cool.

Veronica also is discovered that
she's pregnant with Seth's baby.

Not cool.

Uh, She goes to Dr.

Cronenberg and delivers a giant maggot.

Super, not cool, except it's a dream.

Meanwhile, Brundlefly is
trying to figure out how to

minimize how much fly is in him.

His shit is getting unfortunate looking
and things are continuing to fall off his

computer, which is a bad idea computer
I'm sure, like that's the whole point

of this computer is to have bad ideas,
says that he should fuse with another

pure human to make himself less fly.

Despite the fact that it has
all the records of like how it

put them together and it feels.

They could pull it apart.

I don't know.

Emily: Well that's what he gets
from making that computer horny.

Jeremy: Then the computer decides it
doesn't recognize his voice anymore as

his teeth start falling out like Chiclets.

He gives a seat of lecture about how
to relics of the bike on era before

putting them in the cupboard of lost
body parts along with his ear and

everything else that's fallen off of him.

Veronica decides to go see Brundle before
getting an abortion, which is a bad idea.

Mm-hmm.

. And he gives a speech about
how she shouldn't come back.

Uh, He says, I'm saying that I'm an insect
who dreamt he was a man, but now the

dream is over and the insect is awake.

I'll hurt you if you stay.

He also talks about how he wants to
be the first insect politician, but he

feels like that's unlikely to happen cuz
insects are intense and horrible, I guess.

Weird.

And that does it for her.

It's abortion time.

But br fly overhears her talking
about this and crashes through the

clinic window and carries her away.

Stathis chases back to the lab, bringing
his gun, which is definitely for big

game hunting only to get his handed foot
and melted off by digestive enzymes.

As Brundle watches.

Seemingly, curiously more than furious,
he just is excited about melting his hand.

Veronica gets into leave Stathis alone
by agreeing to help him not realizing

this means fusing with him fusing him,
her, and the baby to make question mark.

Uh, She tries to stop him from doing
that, but his jaw comes off in her hand.

And uh, then he hurls her into the
TelePod before rudely turning his knees

backwards and losing most of his face run
to flight, gets in the second TelePod,

But Sta is, does the smartest thing
I've ever seen in a sci-fi horror movie.

He shoots the connectors of the machine,
but between the, between her TelePod

and the rest of the machine, rather than
trying to kill him or break the pod or

whatever, he's just like, Ah, wires.

I can break those and shoots
it, disconnecting her.

Bruto fly tries to get out to attack
them, but the TelePod fires with

him halfway out and he gets fusd
with pieces of the TelePod and.

Falls out of the third TelePod.

And what was the funniest moment of
this movie To me, I know it's like

so supposed to be super serious, but
the way he sort of cls out of this

TelePod is the funniest shit to me.

He is then begging her to mercy kill him.

She really wants to not, but he is like,
No, put the gun right here on my head.

That's where you should shoot me.

Finally she goes ahead and kills him.

And the movie is over.

Presumably she then immediately
goes to an abortion clinic.

But we do not see that part.

Uh, the end.

Ben: Yeah, that they didn't have
a post credits abortion scene.

Oh, God.

Elana: Before I could finish
watching the movie, I like

literally had to message Jar.

I mean like, Please tell me that
she's able to get an abortion.

And his answer of like, I don't see
why she wouldn't have, after the

credits rolled, it was like, that was,
I needed that confirmation from him in

order to complete watching the movie.

Like that was enough for me to.

You know.

Emily: Yeah, yeah.

There's a bit where he's trying to
convince her not to have the abortion,

like after he pulls her out, comes through
the window and pulls her out of the

fucking clinic and he's all like, fly out.

He's like, Brundlefly.

And he is mostly like, flush the flush.

And he's like, Please have the baby.

And she's like, No, . And
he's like, It's amazing.

That's too bad.

And it's, it comes off really wild
because I'm like, You shouldn't have

to say like, Oh, he's deformed, or, Oh,
he's part fly, or whatever, like mm-hmm.

I don't want a baby.

That's sort of the you know,
autonomy thing, which is

such a, hot issue right now.

Ben: I don't blame that doctor for
having questions about why he's

been dragged out for a one in the
am in the morning abortion though.

I mean,

Emily: yeah, but also like, uh,
it also depends on, to be fair,

Ben: the answer of it's deformed
is also not an acceptable answer.

No, no.

The baby will still, Well, no.

Here's the

Elana: thing.

I'll do it in the morning.

She's saying, Well, the way she says
that, it's very clear to me that

she's talking about disgust and that.

. It's not, this isn't
like an ableism discuss.

This is the disgust of being
pregnant against your will.

Right?

Yeah.

And like, I, if we all had the ability
to like drag medical professionals out

of their office to terminate pregnancies
the second we become aware of them,

like that would be a great feeling.

You know, like I respect workers'
needs to like sleep and eat sometimes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But like if we could reduce the duration
between which knowing that you're

pregnant and being able to make that
thing be over, that would be great.

I'd be a really strong feeling I have
about the, Cause I wanna be clear.

Cause you know, I found, you know, I was
complaining about watching it before.

I think this is a very effective movie.

To help people who can't be pregnant
understand the horror of being pregnant.

So I recommend people who can't
get pregnant watch this movie.

I feel like it, you know, like every
single piece of this, including Jeff

Goldblum's experience, having your body
transform without your consent because

you did something a little bit manic.

Yeah.

That's like, Hey, welcome to like,
being able to get pregnant 1 0

Emily: 1 , or, forced and
coerced through shaming, yep.

Like the, there's a lot of consent issues
going on in this movie and it's, you

know, some of it is literally about sex.

Mm-hmm.

and some of it is literally
about body autonomy.

Mm-hmm.

, um, to kind of skip a little bit ahead,
I just wanna say right now, go on

record and say, Didn't need to be there.

Like we could have had the same discussion
without the literal be like the literal

issue of abortion and pregnancy.

Cuz that's a I

Ben: don't know.

I mean, with everything going
on, and I know this movie's

from the eighties I appreciated
it's strong pro choice message.

Elana: I just, I just, I don't have the
emotional whatever to deal with this

right now, but like all of the people
who can't get pregnant should go watch

it about this so they can see this
person talk about how much they want

an abortion and hopefully understand
that feeling like in some way it's the

Emily: i dehumanizing element.

Like there's the element of
the trope of the evil baby.

the, the problem that I have
with that being in this movie

is that it is not about that.

Like that's a side.

You know, and like this movie is based on
a story about a scientist that fucks up

because he like, plays God or whatever.

I don't know.

Oh, he doesn't play

Ben: God.

He's just a wildly
irresponsible scientist.

Emily: Well, I mean, he's playing
God, He's a wildly responsible side.

Those, those men, but mm-hmm.

, you know, But the, the love Release

Ben: a paper, put out a patent,
and you fucking asshole.

Emily: Yeah.

Well, everybody's problem.

Ben: Not, I, I can't let people know, I
can only transport like non-living matter.

I know.

That's, that's not gonna fucking, I know.

Elana: To yell at him.

I was like, Dude, that's
a fucking miracle.

Just like shit.

.
Emily: Yeah, dude.

Ben: What it is,

Jeremy: dude, real world is
tele fuck in the eighties.

Amazon pill for that

Ben: technology.

Like real scientists teleported a
particle and they didn't shut up about it.

Emily: I mean, good for and good for them.

They shouldn't shut up about it
because that's like a fucking amazing

in fact, we should hear more about
it because people need to know.

Yes.

They teleported a

Ben: that incredible, That is incredible.

It's amazing.

We even know what particles are.

Yeah.

.
Emily: So, again, biggest problem in this
movie for everybody is that they're horny.

Like that is where a lot
of these problems start.

They don't know how to
be responsibly horny.

And I'm not talking
about sex or penetration.

I'm talking about the literal penetration.

You're talking about

Ben: the.

Emily: Which is about sex.

Like, come on, Jeff Goldblum.

You could be like, Oh yeah,
we're just about the, penetration

of the ve of flesh that seems,

Ben: and I'm like, Take a shot every
time Jeff Goldblum says plasma pool

Emily: or flesh, and
talk about bad decisions.

Yes.

It's a,

Elana: it's a, it's a credit
Bird movie, so it's gonna talk

about those specific things.

You know, one of the things.

I love about David Cronenberg is that
he understands on a deep level how

terrifying and disgusting pregnancy is.

And he is so lucky that
he can't get pregnant.

I feel like he and I get each
other, you know what I mean?

, I'm like, I agree.

It's just that bad, except
it can happen to me.

It's just that fucking bad.

And like I had to have an ectopic
fucking pregnancy dealt with.

Like, Can you imagine?

So it's sort of like, I, I always have
like related to the same sort of like

disgust and revulsion before I even
had to have that happen, even because

it's just like already was in there,
like I didn't need such experience,

that frustrating experience, you
know, But like, it, it just always was

like reasons I, and I was like, Wow.

Like he totally gets me.

He's awfully lucky that he doesn't
have to actually deal with this.

but it, you know, I feel like it makes
you feel seen in a certain way, you know,

that like, People like are not trying
to say that this is like natural and

wonderful and like comfortable and like
actually understand it as as horror.

Right.

And I think it's great to have, you know,
have abortions in movies all the time.

Like, Please, I was a little bit
like mean when it turned out it was

a dream in which she was dealing
with this without being sedated.

Look in the history of mankind,
all kinds of things happen.

But generally speaking, when you
have an abortion, you're sedated.

A lot of people don't know this.

So having her like get an abortion
awake was a little bit like, I really

hope people don't think that that's
what's going to happen to them.

Ben: That would've been
a hell of an inception.

Just like going under in your.

Elana: Oh my God.

Well, like, well, so then,
you know, then it's a dream.

And of course in your fever dream, in
your, in your, in your nightmare, that is

totally the kind of thing could happen.

Ben: Correct.

This information is always he good.

Elana: Yeah.

He, he gets how serious this is.

Like he gets how horrific it is.

And so that body horror like isn't,
it isn't just about Jeff Goldblum's

body being out of control, izing and
changing, which as you said is in and

of itself is enough of a pregnancy
horror to, to cover the bases, you know?

Yeah.

But like the added level of like,
and then also talking about the way

it actually impacts like people in.

Who like are alive in the world like that.

There's a lot there.

It just is hard for me to watch
right now with the like traumas

and shit that I experience.

That's all

Ben: I will say for this horror movie.

The thing that made me scream at
this green the loudest was seeing

how much money is apparently in
freelance science journalism in the

I know that was a nice apartment.

When they show up at that office
like, Sta this is holding.

I was like, Don't you know who I am?

I'm the editor of Particle Magazine.

Look at my wanky ass office.

Elana: I thought you met her apartment.

Emily: Cause her apartment
and her apartment was

Ben: nice Book.

The amount of money in science
journalism in the eighties astounding.

Emily: I think they were saving money
uh, because There was an editor and one.

Journalist on that stuff.

. But anyway, Lance, I guess.

Ben: He had a vanity plate.

That's a

Jeremy: particle.

Yeah, I, I was gonna say, like, I, going
off of what Elana was talking about,

I feel like Cronenberg has some very
strange, and complicated relationship

with women in his movies generally,
but part of it is like he does seem to

have a horror about the female body.

And it

Elana: is like, well, it's not to
be, it's not the female, I mean,

he views it as the female body.

I think it's important for us to
not, to not call it that per se.

Yeah.

Jeremy: Well, I, I, I, for him
it is that's how he's seeing it.

But I think it's important that
for him it is a sympathetic fear.

A sympathetic quarter.

Yeah, exactly.

That.

He's not just like, Oh, I can
kill them, get them outta here.

Like, I hate women.

No, It's like, like, No,
that's really fucked up.

What happens when you have a baby?

Holy

Elana: shit.

Yeah, exactly.

He internalized all that horror story.

Like he, he's a S man who
understands how good he has it.

Like deeply.

Yeah.

He's like,

Ben: Thank fucking God.

. I think like want to give it up for
Geena Davis and Jeff Goldblum as

the leads, like, they're both great.

Emily: And it's also important to
note that the most normal, logical,

sympathetic, empathetic person
in this movie is Geena Davis.

Mm-hmm.

, She is between two monsters.

One is a literal monster and
becomes a literal monster because,

he fused himself with a fucking.

Fly

Ben: you.

Ah, damnit.

I wish I was gonna say, And
the other one was a fly man,

.
Emily: Yeah.

Right.

Well Sta is is just a
fucking horrible person.

So mad.

Yeah.

Like the, the charting,

Jeremy: bad history of their
relationship throughout this movie.

It's like, Oh, so they met when
she was in journalism school?

Well, he was a professor and they got
together and then I guess he hired her on

freelance to her magazine at his magazine.

While they were still fucking, and then
like, he just has a key to her house,

even though they're not together anymore
and just shows up for things like taking

a shower and asking for casual sex.

And I was like, Man, like this guy
ends up being sort of the hero of

the movie is wild because Yeah,

Emily: like that worst unforgivable
motherfucker who's like, I mean at least,

Ben: does not make it out of the movie in

Emily: one piece.

No, he doesn't.

And so I'm like, Yeah, okay, well at least
he's, he, he lost a hand and a foot and

hopefully he gained some perspective.

There's, there's a whole part

Jeremy: of him that I feel like
in a different movie, he would be

like, I had to shoot the chords.

You wouldn't be hot anymore.

Like . Yeah.

Emily: Yeah.

He was such a fucking cartoon bad guy.

Jeremy: Also, everybody in
this movie has Game of Thrones.

like

Ben: Seth Brundle, Seth
Brundle, and Seth Brundle.

That is such, You're right.

That's such a fucking Game
of Thrones names like, Lord,

Stathis of House, Barand.

Emily: Uht has done dirty.

Ben: Okay.

Maybe not so much.

T

Emily: Well, tt like, Oh, you can, I
could, Seet being a actors is having

Jeremy: a great time with T though.

She's

Emily: Oh yeah.

Well, oh yeah.

Everyone seems to have great
time with the characters.

Like

Jeremy: that's another,
Oh, also Veronica's.

The last name is Qua, by the way.

Oh, man.

Qua,

Emily: I don't know.

Mm.

Well, cause already gr is like a
little adjacent, you know, like I could

Elana: Is that the name of the, is
that his name in the, in the, in the

earlier movie in the Vincent Price

Emily: movie?

I don't think so, but interesting.

I don't, I haven't looked that up.

I was hoping somebody would've looked that
up because I, I did not look up to see

if there was any sort of July pregnancy
and the original, I don't remember

that from the printed surprise movie.

I don't remember the, the
fly pregnancy subplot.

I just remember the, the faceted ice
cream and the help me and all that jazz.

Also, there was a, instead of a baboon,
it was a cat, which made me sad, but they

Elana: didn't, Oh yeah,
they're both so, Okay.

Sorry.

I was like I said to Jeremy
in advance, I apologize.

I am gonna talk about two things.

One of them is abortion and the horrors
of pregnancy, and the other is the baboon.

Ben: You have to talk about the baboon.

Let's talk about the babo.

Don't, Yeah, let us, We must
talk about the baboon a thing.

I don't say enough on this podcast.

Elana: After being a party
to the murdering of a

beautiful, intelligent animal.

The only thing that could make
me feel even vaguely sympathetic

towards Geena Davis's character
is her needing an abortion.

I'm like, You are the worst person
in the world, but it's true.

Let's terminate that fucking I'm with you.

Like how d Like why wouldn't
you test it on a lab?

I, That's

Ben: literally what they're

Emily: That's exactly, That's
literally what lab rat are.

Listen, it

Elana: is disgusting to her, and I
just don't know, like the one artistic

storytelling choice from the movie
that I just think is really misguided

is having him test it on a baboon,
which makes no sense at all because all

it's going to do is make us hate him.

The human ing a human test, the human
response to seeing a human do a scientific

experiment on an animal, on an advanced
developed mammal is disgusted and sadness.

I cried that that was so
like, why would you do that?

Like, you want me to hate him?

Done.

It's hates only

Ben: after he's turned a bad boon
inside out that he is like, Oh

shit, I should try it like a steak.

And see how that works.

Great.

Yeah.

It's just,

Elana: it's, it's not necessary.

It's not, it's not important.

Like there's no reason
to not just use a rat.

We would be just as grossed out
seeing a rat turned inside out.

We just

Ben: probably turned, Look, that
falls under like where we as a

society have decided like is our
hierarchy of life in exchange that

we sacrifice in the name of science.

Yeah.

I'm not saying it's right, but it's a line
that we as society have collectively drawn

and it's mic and rats like are right below

Emily: it.

Jeff Goldblum should have
read Full Metal Alchemist.

He would've known how this

Ben: goes.

Also, I have questions in on multiple
levels about that didn't exist then.

But where did this baboon come from?

Like where did Brundle get this
pa boon and where did David

Cronenberg get this baboon

Emily: from the David Bowie
Hunger Sleep Study Research Lab.

Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

Thank you.

Elana: Yeah, no, I, I will say like,
at least I have faith that the baboon

was probably treated perfectly, wa
perfectly fine on set, you know?

Yeah.

He wasn't like exposed to scary, loud
things even probably, but like within

the story of the movie, Congratulations.

I hate everybody and it's hard for me
to like, not just stay in that mindset.

Ben: I, I wish we got the
scene where he robbed a zoo.

There should have just been news
reports being like, meanwhile,

authorities still looking from the
baboons that got stolen last week.

It's so

Elana: beautiful.

It makes me so sad.

Emily: He did express remorse.

Not enough remorse, but like,
he did express the, the remorse.

And then, that was where like when
he got drunk and did it himself.

Yeah.

And he was like, Okay.

You know, it was fucked up that
I killed this baboons brother.

And I'm sitting here talking
to this baboon mm-hmm.

and being like, Wow, what?

It was fucked up.

Okay, well, you know, and he literally
says like, I wouldn't do anything.

I wouldn't ask you to do
anything I wouldn't do myself.

So he was like, Fuck it, I'm
gonna go, I'm gonna go in there.

And that fucks his entire life up.

like, something, something God's
territory which, you know, I'm saying

as an agnostic person, like, you know,
this is just within the narrative

conceit of like a lot of these stories
about scientists going too far,

Ben: and he ain't even turn it
into when I'm used amusement park.

Mm-hmm.

, well bad.

Have scientists gone too far?

Elana: I thought the script of
that scene where he talks to the

bad boon is like really good.

Yeah.

And he could've had the same
exact conversation to Rat.

That's the thing.

It could've been ex it would've
been the same conversation.

Oh,

Ben: completely.

Unnecessarily be a bad boon.

But did anyone else think the
baboon was gonna be an animal

sidekick for the rest of the movie?

No,

Elana: because this is Aron Inberg

Ben: movie.

Aon, I clearly misread

Emily: things.

Aon fucking got flowers
that balloon, that baboon.

Deserves flowers, at least, you
know, instead of like sad fuck party.

And where we talk about steak
also, there's no way you can do

science with a pan fried steak.

If you're trying to test steak quality.

Mm.

With a pan fried steak you already lost.

Ben: Veronica

Jeremy: says I mean it's not very good.

He's using, you can use some finesse, but

Ben: it's fine.

Yeah.

I did not see any pepper or salt.

He did not pe port the pepper or salt.

Yeah.

Like, well, shitty steak.

Also.

I do appreciate that they
eventually explained where he's

getting the funding because I had
a lot of questions about that.

Mm-hmm.

. Yeah.

But I do, I do still try to, trying
to figure out how that would've

worked when he submitted all of
his furniture as an expense report.

Oh

Emily: my.

I mean, he needs to live comfortably in
this warehouse to do his very important

science that's gonna change the world.

I'm very

Ben: cheap.

What powers these machines?

How much electricity is
needed to power teleportation?

Emily: There's run on wheels.

Is it just like

Ben: six D batteries

Emily: each?

Maybe that's how he's gonna change
the world, is like he's so busy trying

to fucking teleport baboons that he's
also like invented this super efficient

energy source and energy management
system with this fucking horny computer.

Ben: I do love that.

I mean, God, I will always love that.

We invented DARPA and entire mad
scientist division and by far the big

most impactful thing they ever invented
was like a file organization network.

Jeremy: I.

I hate this computer.

I think this must be the same
computer from the thing that just

like randomly is like, you know, if
this got out of this lab then it would

probably kill everybody like a week.

It's like there's a 75% chance somebody
in this lab is already an alien.

It's like, who asked you that computer?

Where did you come up with that?

? This

Ben: what's amazing what punch a
card gives you that calculation.

Yeah.

Emily: Yeah.

And how did he teach the
computer to be horny Overnight?

Because he ate a steak.

Like he was all, I need to
teach the computer of the flesh.

And in order to do that, I
must know more of the flesh.

So that's my new pickup line.

If I was picking people up.

So you're

Ben: saying you wanted a training
montage of Jeff Goldblum slowly

training a computer to be horny

,
Emily: I mean, come on.

Yes, correct.

We had a Demonn baby maggot.

Ben: We did

Jeremy: have, if anybody do it,
Jeff Goldblum and Geena Davis.

Right.

And

Ben: David Cronenberg.

Again, Geena Davis is so delightful.

Like she's so warm and personable
and like, I love you Geena Davis.

Well that's what I'm saying, like

she's

Jeremy: a bad journalist.

I do have to say that very.

Ben: Oh yeah.

I mean she fucks her
subject like immediately.

Well I think that that's, it
takes her no time to go full.

David Petras biographer.

Listen, that was a, if you get
that joke, congratulations.

Heroes.

Jeremy: Now

Emily: is that, Thank you for smoking.

Ben: You talked about No, that's
David Petras, that's the general

who was formerly in charge of
like all the Middle East stuff.

Oh, what kinda affair with his biographer.

Jeremy: God, that was all,
That was all terrible.

What are memories, Petre.

Ben: Yeah, plus it out
that bush hour nostalgia.

It's not

Elana: like real journalism when
you're covering a friend in that kind

of way, but you could legitimately
do it as a documentary in those ways.

Like just have, you have to
have transparency about it.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like if she was like, if you have
transparency about like that you're

making a documentary about your friend's
science thing, then that's, that's legit.

But you can't just be like,
So, man, I've never met before.

.
Emily: I mean, he's, he is Jeff Goldblum
in the eighties and he is really fucking,

well he's, he's, he is hot, but he is like
one fedora away from inventing four chan.

Elana: Oh, he's a hundred percent.

No, no.

His pitch to her, This is interesting.

When, when Jeremy was doing his initial,
his initial description of the movie

and talked about selling the experiment
to the point where she goes back with

him, I was just sort of like that scene.

Like the way he delivers that pitch is
so well done and so believable, but also

like unbelievable that it would work.

Like I a hundred percent
believe that man exists.

He sounds exactly like that, man.

The way it's written, everything,
but like that's just you.

He would he, in order to pitch if in
he, he, he pitched it in a way where

she was basically like, I guess I'm
gonna go with a serial killer, you know?

Emily: Yeah.

He was like, I like bodies.

I like, Well, no, that was
later what he's saying.

Oh yeah, I'm a body builder.

I take them apart and
put it back together.

And I'm like, Okay, Jeff Re daher.

,
Ben: even when he is just regular chef.

Every part of him getting Geena
Davis back is so serial killer.

Like when he takes him
back to like mm-hmm.

The warehouse loft, which he
was doing before Hipsters.

Take that.

Elana: Yeah.

No, no, not before.

That was young girl.

It's not before hip.

No.

Sorry.

You

Emily: can't say that.

That's before hipsters
have always lived in lofts.

Like that's where they started.

Like that's where they evolved.

That's like the primordial soup of
hipsters, like in like the 18 hundreds.

Like that's how I, what's his name
with the, with the shoes shit.

Oscar

Elana: Wilde with the shoes, Wore shoes.

Both of these options, as with
the shoes are blowing my mind.

But yes, Meg is correct.

I mean, I would say

Jeremy: maybe Michael Jordan
come first with the shoes.

Emily: Oscar, Oscar Wild was
living in a loft and he was such a

Ben: hipster.

He was an absolute hipster.

Yeah.

But no, I do feel like that is the.

Inherent contradiction and yet
up appeal of Jeff Goldblum is

that he is so believably like.

Awkward and a little adhd, and
yet he is just so undeniably

like the charisma of a superstar.

Emily: Mm.

Yeah.

Well, it and Geena Davis also as a
journalist, like I could believe that,

she's like, Okay, I can handle myself.

I wanna see what this guy's up to.

And to be fair, she didn't sleep
with him that time at that point.

Jeremy: She's like, Yeah, it
took her a couple of days.

Ben: Took, took, didn't need
to take the stocking off.

She was fine with the shoe.

This shoe would've been set, would've
been slightly flirtatious enough.

Emily: Well, I feel like she doesn't
wanna lose the shoe, like Yeah, exactly.

Elana: You know, at that a good

Emily: point.

She doesn't, she wants to heals
to go home in the stocking

Ben: is very disposable.

Yeah.

Emily: But yeah, no, this man, this
man Seth Brundle has hit on me.

I did not go with him like back
to his fucking loft or whatever.

Even though I have a very like, I
try to encompass the Geena Davis

energy as much as possible just into
life generally, but a good energy.

Yeah.

Right.

Jeremy: I think this is what it would
be like to meet Elon Musk in person.

Elana: No.

Cuz he's not charismatic in the same,
like there's a Jeff Goldblum, like

there's a Jeff Goldblum to him, you know?

Emily: Yeah, yeah.

Well it's this character.

I have met this character.

I have been to golf clubs, I've
been to clubs where they're,

you know, like he's a nerd.

He thinks he's the fucking best
because he knows all the war hammer

rules and he likes to talk about

Ben: them.

. Whoa.

Yo, that dude knows all the fucking war

Emily: hammer rules.

Yeah.

And he fake like so many of 'em.

He's so, And you know, I'm

Ben: there.

I wanna know that dude.

He sounds cool.

He is the

Jeremy: tiniest paint brushes.

Emily: Yeah.

He has the tiniest paint brushes in
all of the, He's very meticulous.

but the thing is that he is
cute and charismatic and funny.

So he use, he weaponizes
that as much as possible.

And I've met this guy and this
guy, like, listen, this guy to me

is so fucking hilarious because
he is a cartoon character, He's

a living cartoon character.

So I know exactly how to deal with
that shit until I go to like, don't

never go to a second location.

Mm-hmm.

. But you can sit and talk to that
guy and like just, Say whatever.

As long as he's not being like,
Oh, you just can't handle this.

Which is what Jeff Google
of Straight Up does.

Yes.

Like in, in this movie, he's
like, You can't handle this.

And that's where I'd be like, Fuck you.

But yep, yep.

Totally.

No,

Elana: I'm like, Yeah, like please tell me
more about your nerdy hobbies and expert.

Like, this could be interesting,
but you, you can't do it

in a way that belittles me.

Cause that's why

Emily: you can't fucking
gate keep your shit at me.

Ben: Exactly.

In a way that leads to a
baboon being turned inside

Emily: out.

Oh yeah.

The also the baboon thing,
like the second he pulls out a

baboon, I'm like, Absolutely not.

Like I haven't seen Nope.

But I know the things that nope.

Refers to.

I know a baboon will
inside out you if it could.

Oh

Jeremy: yeah.

I mean apparently this, that what fuck
of a baboon, Apparently this baboon was

pretty wild on set to begin with and was,
It's a baboon, they were only able to.

Keep it chill because Jeff
Goldblum was muscular in six four

and the baboon was like, cool.

He's my, he's my dad.

,
Emily: that BA seemed to Jeff

Ben: Gold.

Yeah.

Jeremy: So you saying that Jeff
Goldblum this guy was a fucking,

this baboon was a fucking nightmare.

And it was just because of Jeff
Goldblum that they were able

to like, keep it under wraps.

Like I do wanna flew

Emily: Alfred the baboon.

Ben: Yes, absolutely.

This is not the air, like this
is a year before die hard of like

the regular pod action heroes.

You've got your Arnold and like
Stallone, fucking like giant macho men.

But here's Jeff Goldblum in 1986
doing like the Fight Club look a

straight decade before Brad Pitt.

Yeah.

It's also doing

Jeremy: straight up.

When I said Olympic level of
gymnastics, I'm not kidding.

Like Oh yeah.

Ben: I'm also not, not sure how
much of that is That wasn't him.

Yeah.

Elana: I mean I noticed that his body is
real, but the gymnastics is somebody else.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: He's not doing the display.

This is a lot of long distance shots
with Hiller strategically placed.

I mean, there's good

Jeremy: chunk of like just what
he's doing on the chair before

he gets up from the chair.

Sure, sure.

Ben: Can still see his face.

Yeah.

Those abs are, those are
some fucking dashboard abs.

You could great cheese on them.

Abs.

Right.

Jeremy: That's why I think that
like, this is, like Seth Brundle

is like a sliding doors situation
away from being Ian Malcolm, you

know, also Jeff Goldblum character.

Right.

But like actually has the, like,
the follow through with the uh,

charismatic and you know, has decided
to study chaos theory instead of,

biology and teleportation physics,
I guess is what he is doing.

Ian

Emily: Malcolm is such a power bottom.

And this dude Seth Brundle started as a
bottom and then he like switched when he

Ben: got fly.

Ian is a bratty bottom.

Emily: He is a such a
bratty bottom, you know?

That's

Elana: right.

But is that Jurassic Park?

Yes.

Ian Malcolm.

Yes.

Ben: Okay.

Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park.

I have never seen a character
who just walks on set and without

saying words, it's like, Yup.

This character Fox, Oh

Emily: my God.

Oh my God.

With his like, Sexy
shirt and his sexy pants

Jeremy: standing next to
fucking Alan Grant, who clearly

does not like Alan Grant

Ben: does not fuck

Jeremy: Nolan Grant does not
know where the clitoris is.

He knows where all the bones
for all the dinosaurs are.

He has no idea where the clitoris

Ben: sit.

That's why they're not together by three.

Emily: Okay, so, this is, so we talk
a lot, We're talking a lot about Jeff

Goldblum's abs and that's why that
is what I remember about this movie.

Like, you go into the beginning of
this movie, Jeremy, are you okay?

? Yeah, I'm,

Jeremy: I just write script for a
grant and the mystery of the clitoris

Emily: I love that Golden book.

Ben: God

.
Emily: So, gotta do a
arch archeological thing.

What was the joke?

Jeremy: It's just that scene with him
in the Raptor club, but talking about a

Emily: clitoris like Yeah, it's
still alive when you start to eat.

You . Sorry,

Ben: uh, Further off topic.

To promote the fossil Pokemon they
just put out a straight up like

stuffed animal of Pikachu in an Allen
grant costume, and it's adorable.

Emily: Oh I'm not sure how I feel
about the segue from Allen Grant

clitoris to Allen Grant Pikachu.

Ben: Well, the, I I think it's the
Allen grant that is the common element.

Emily: Yeah.

But Jeff Goldblum was in earth.

Girls are Easy and bang.

Geena Davis in that movie and that movie.

Totally the opposite.

I just wanna talk about that because
that was a good movie about Jeff

Goldblum being naked and it didn't,
wasn't counteracted by maggot babies.

Yeah.

Wait, is there all

Ben: are, is there a whole movie of
that's just Jeff Goldblum and Geena

Davis, like having a romantic comedy.

Yeah.

Have you guys

Elana: ever seen Vibes?

Emily: Yes.

But that's with Cindy

Elana: Laer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cindy Laer.

Yeah.

Ben: To say doesn't like Cindy Laer.

Emily: This, that movie is
actually really charming.

Yeah.

Vibes is charming.

Cuz they're both like
psychic's, not very charming.

The fly is not, But that's the thing is
Jeff Goldblum like crouching naked in that

pod with like the steam and everything.

That's what you remember of that movie and
that's what everyone puts on the poster.

If not just like the alien like pod.

Cuz I know that the Alien movie poster is
very similar to the fly poster with like

there's a round thing and it's well to

Ben: degree is that just being
like, Cuz I saw that and I'm like,

Yes, A plus Jeff Goldblum naked.

But also I'm like, I've seen Terminator.

Is this

Emily: Terminator?

Yeah.

Jeff Goldblum this time.

It is

Ben: sense.

That is an important

Elana: difference.

Like, you know, have it, it makes sense.

Given us an excuse to have him naked
and like, do it and like it makes sense

and it's atmospheric and I'm all for it.

I also really like the design of the pods.

Yeah.

They're so of their period,

Emily: you know?

Oh my God.

Right.

They like,

Elana: those were definitely then
used in a, in a different film as

like some office, like statures,
like statuary or something, you know,

Emily: like in big corporate office
it's like neo brutalism thing going on.

Elana: Yep.

Now you're great.

Emily: I love them.

Did Ted so and the Ironman
come out before this movie?

Or after this movie?

Hmm.

Jeremy week

Jeremy: after, I wanna say it was 87.

Yeah.

Emily: 86.

Yeah.

Apparently there's a,
sequel to this movie.

Oh, 89.

89 for Teo.

Yeah,

Ben: I, My favorite part, we've
talked about the computer and what

a fucking nonsense computer this is.

My favorite part about the computer is
at the end with the final teleportation

and this computer's refusal to admit
failure, where instead of being like,

Whoops, it got shot and everyone ran out
halfway through, teleportation failed.

It's like, Nope, I'm too good a computer
teleportation with the TelePod successful.

Yeah, That good job computer
successfully fused with a radiator.

Emily: Yeah.

The, And also like, how
does that even make sense?

Because like, it's not organic mat, Well,
I guess it does do more organic material.

This is why you

Jeremy: is so funny to me.

Like, not like leading up to it,
like her being, you know, thrown

in the pod and, and everything
that's going on with Seth and that,

but like It's Howard Shore, right?

That's doing the score on this?

I think so, yeah.

Yeah.

Like there's this like creeping louder
and louder music, like setting up this

like, final reveal of what's happened
to Brel as he comes out of this thing,

fused partially with the teleport
and like the door opens and the steam

comes out and the, the music goes,

Ben: and Brundle goes.

So he's just like, balls just
like Dan on the ground, Like he

was rising in pain and like metal

Elana: shutting.

Oh yeah.

We should talk more about the
body horror for him, per se,

and like the horrific puberty.

Emily: So I also wanna talk about
that because there's a lot of

discussion about coercion and, not just
him forcing Geena Davis or trying to force

or shame Geena Davis or Tawny into getting
into the, the pod and, doing pod times.

But he is very like horny and very
pushy about sex, which is real rough.

And I think it's astutely rough
because he is a monster and he was

like kind of a shit bird beforehand.

But, he had Some redeeming qualities.

I like Chinese food, like Chinese
champagne and and cheese breaks.

I feel like he could have, he, he
could have sorted himself out, but with

this fly thing, he just went too far.

And the, and there's a thing about David
Cronenberg and one of the reasons that I

enjoy him as the king of venereal horror
is that like, as someone who is ace and

someone who is like, been forced to be
sexualized by pretty much everything as I

was growing up and you know, also having
to deal with dudes saying a lot of this

shit to me verbatim when I was like,
I'd just rather like, can we just watch

the fly instead of Netflix and chill?

Can we actually chill?

I know Netflix doesn't
exist yet, but anyway.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But yeah, so this the aggressiveness
and the, like, the just meaty

grossness of the sex in David
Cronenberg movies is something

that I really like, identify with.

And not because I think that sex is
inherently gross, but the way that

it has been pushed on me as someone
who has been throughout my life as

someone who is like trying to come to
come to accept my identity as asexual.

Because in order to have relationships
as somebody who's very, like, like I

identify a lot with Geena Davis, who
is, she's there for, because she has

her own ambitions, but, also empathetic
despite, the monstrosity and everything.

And maybe a little naive
because, you know, these

cartoon guys are just so funny.

Having that be forced on you is something
that is really hard to articulate.

And also, you know, not just that,
but like, gender identity and

things like that, like mm-hmm.

, a lot of that otherness
comes into the body horror.

I appreciate that about , the
koberg body horror.

And it's interesting too, because we
have this situation where Jeff Goldblum

goes to this through this point where
he's like, he's going through these

stages of grief about his transformation
that is, you know, out of his control.

Elana: Yeah, no, I mean, there's like
such a good puberty metaphor in there,

especially for going through changes that
you don't wanna be experiencing, you know?

Yeah.

Like I, I'm sure that that alliance with a
lot of people's traumatic puberty changes

that they didn't want to experience.

But like the movie also just straight up
goes to like, your teeth are falling out.

Yeah.

Like he went right into
that, like, horror of that.

I I could not watch the nail thing.

I like, it's so good.

You was, Yeah.

No, I know.

I told Frank it's done.

Yeah.

I was like tell me when it's done.

You know, But like the, he's.

He's like really going into the well of
like our deepest, most fucked up horrors.

And the fact that Seth responds to them
with a combination of horror and amazement

is also, I think, very similar to a
kind of dream-like state that sometimes

these things feel like for people when
they're having these fears while they're

Dre, while they're dreaming mm-hmm.

Um, So I feel like it's
really uncanny in those ways.

Ben: Well, and

Jeremy: I think it gets sold
exceptionally well by Jeff Goldblum

and like a way that I don't think other
actors could have done the, like Yeah.

The way that he goes from, you know,
in, in his two meetings with her from

like this, this like horror when he's
using the arm crutches and he is like,

I'm, I'm falling apart and dying.

I don't know how much longer I've got.

And the next time she comes back he's
like, Oh, I'm walking on the ceiling.

Isn't this crazy that I'm like doing this?

Maybe, maybe, you know,
I'm, I'm finding my destiny.

Maybe there's something important here.

Like, That's such an interesting
switch that feels both.

So Jeff goldblum me, but so like real
that, you know, turns this corner for him.

Yeah.

Ben: The script really calls
for Jeff Goldblum's attitude and

behavior to like turn on a dime.

Yeah.

So rapidly throughout
and he nails all of them.

Like, it's so much fun just seeing him
show up and being like, and now I'm

acting in this completely different way,
which, and really like, he carries it

like so much of the movie I think rests
on him and his charisma, which is why

as creepy as the final transformations
are and as scary and as just like as

fucked up as like the face ripping apart
is, I think it loses something really

crucial at the end by going all puppet.

Mm-hmm.

and that's that it doesn't have
gold bloom there to sell those

final moments of pain and tragedy.

If this movie I like, I think a big
reason why this movie didn't quite

work for me is, and maybe there's
another interpretation I'm not

seeing, but I think it either needed
to go, like Brundle is a villain.

Like this is a guy who was like a
pretty bad guy before and this has

just made him so much worse and we
just wanna see him like get taken out.

Or this is a good man who threw
mistakes and going too far with

pursuing science like this.

What could have been a great life
and a great love has to be destroyed

in this most tragic of ways.

And I don't feel like Brundle was
likable enough to pull off the tragedy.

And you especially don't have the
tragedy if you don't have, if it's

not actually between Geena Davis and
Jeff Goldblum in those final moments.

Hmm.

Yeah.

It's just a weird fucking puppet
that like, Yeah, absolutely.

Fucking exploded.

Explode the weird gross puppet.

I mean,

Emily: Geena Davis is acting
her pants off, you know, like

she's, Geena Davis is great.

Trying really hard to sell.

Yeah,

Ben: she's doing great.

But again, it's like as creepy as it is.

As an acting partners
trying to sell a tragedy.

Yeah.

Giant gross fly puppets.

Really not giving her much, like
given her much to reciprocate.

Elana: Right.

You're like, No, please,
please kill, please kill.

Especially because you tried to make her
be pregnant you know, Please kill her.

I'm, I'm like, like cheering for that.

It's so funny.

Like, I hate that she has to go
get her Evil X to come and save

her, but that's because this is
a world with three people in it.

Yeah.

Like, it's so claustrophobic.

It has so small.

What the hell?

I mean, the doc, the doctor is Cronenberg.

The second doctor, the
nightmare doctor is Cronenberg.

The real ob gyn is the actor who
plays the from video drone who

plays the head of the company.

Oh

Emily: yeah.

Elana: He's such a, a
quirky character actor.

And I, I liked seeing him in there.

But

Jeremy: You know, Yeah.

Other than them, it's like T
and the two guys at the bar.

And like, that's about it.

As far as actors, I'm

Elana: like, was so glad
he didn't rape Connie.

Like, I was really happy about

Ben: that.

Like, yeah, like there's not even a lot
of scenes with like a bunch of extras.

There's like the bar scene and mm-hmm.

, the very beginning at the party.

Yeah.

This movie really was no time

Elana: in the world, in
the world of the movie.

Like she has no one else.

So of course he's the guy
who gets brought in, like

Ben: at that point in time, like
they would've had to have introduced

an entirely new character.

An hour 15 into the movie.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeremy: The only thing that doesn't
work for me is that the movie's not

quite sure who the main character is.

Sometimes they Yeah.

Is following her and sometimes it's
following him and if the tragedy is

him, then it, it kind of blows that by.

Like just skipping large
portions of his story.

And if if the main character is her then,
and this, you know, is the tragedy of

her going through all the shit she has to
go through and this, then like, there's

super long chunks that she's not in.

Yeah.

And it's, it's kind of weird

Emily: in that way.

And her whole, abortion plot is
sidelines like Yeah, it's, and

that's what, that's why I feel like
it just doesn't need to be there.

Like if it's it gonna be about that, then,
it's either about that or it's about,

it's allegorical, and I think that the
I mean just with those two things, with

the fly transformation and the pregnancy
thing and all of the sex and the flesh

that has been involved with all of that.

I think that this movie already had
so much that it was dealing with

and Geena Davis should have had more
like, cool things cuz Jeff Goldblum

was saying some crazy poetry about
insect politics and, you know, I'm Mr.

Samsa and all this kind of shit.

Ben: Oh my God, I forgot about
the insect politics was aine.

That was fucking bons.

Yeah.

Emily: And like, and his, when
he talked, when he is talking to

his teeth, like that was so cool.

And there was such a good, like
just fun writing going on there.

And the, the weirdest thing that Geena
Davis got to say was that old ladies like

to pinch babies because they're interested
in the flesh and it's not the case.

Like it just really,
And, and then where that.

Really made it sound like, okay,
so old ladies pinch babies either

because they want to eat the
babies or because they're horny.

And that's either, I think

Ben: I know, I know what
I know my bird short.

Yes, I know I was, Yeah.

Cause I saw Snow Pierce Science

Elana: Captain America behind it too.

Emily: I know there's, But like
the way that they the way that they

placed it in the film and context,
cuz she's like, I want to eat you up.

And then she's like, you know, he's such
a fucking nerd that he like sleeps on

his microchips and, gets them embedded
in his back during sex, which is

like, don't you hate that when all of.

Processors, you know, you've left all your

Ben: processors.

Like, I was wondering where that was,
like, where was that supposed to be?

Elana: Did you tell me you've never
fallen asleep with like a completely

random object on the mattress somewhere?

Ben: I was waiting for the
language like, oh look, it's the,

Elana: Exactly.

Jeremy knows I have, I don't know
what my is, but I've definitely

been like, it's not a hanger that's
a hanger like a million times.

What?

Ben: I was glad they didn't do.

What I was kind of waiting for them
to be like, Oh look, it's the chip

that lets me know if multiple things
are in the pod and doesn't do it.

If that's the case

Oh

Emily: that would, Oh
I just wear this ship.

Yeah, cuz like, it looked like, it was
like, when I first saw the movie, I

thought it was a chip that like the,
their, his company had like stuck on.

In order to monitor his progress or some
shit, like, I don't know, I thought it was

some, some tracking shit because there was
a lot of stalking going on in the film.

But no, he's just left his shit around.

And also he didn't, he was very clear.

He didn't like, he did the programming.

He didn't make these things.

He had them made.

He was like, Can you make, He asked all
these different people to make like a

particular thing and then he put them in a
cool, like neo brutalist, like chrysalis.

Elana: Well, and project management
is an essential piece of science

that is often overlooked.

It's often gendered labor that's
given to women actually as well.

But two, like he's the one who, who knew
like what these things were to even ask.

So I don't have, Okay, that didn't that.

If those other people were capable
of making a matter transporter, they

they would have, but they weren't.

So he, you know what I mean?

Like I'm fine with that.

Well, that's the

Emily: thing.

Oh yeah.

Well, I'm fine with that.

Ben: Bad scientist.

How, why did

Emily: he happen

Ben: this bed show that other
people can replicate it.

This you and your fucking warehouse
taking no notes is goddamn useless.

Elana: Yeah.

Emily: I mean, at least I, I'm really
tempted to try to train my Siri to respond

to Jeff Goldblum, like, voice patterns.

Cuz I mean, who has a more now
I've, I've actually, I'm not ahing.

Please, Alicia, help me.

Who has a more recognizable
voice pattern than Jeff

Elana: Goldblum?

Jeff Goldblum, I know
only Shaer or Colombo.

I guess Vito,

Emily: right.

Elana: But yeah, no, it's, it's really
strong there and like, I don't know,

I think that I like how you wanna be
clear, like we're saying, like the whole

fact with Goldblum doing bad science,
like that is normal in movies, right?

Like the movies that actually show
people doing proper scientific method,

it's like, I don't even know a one
movie that does it, so I don't wanna

act like that's like a particular
problem with this movie or anything.

But it is, sometimes it's hard to not feel
frustrated with characters when they're

doing that sort of stuff, but by missing
in token, like, I think that's okay.

I don't think that he's trying to make
it so that we're like, This guy is great.

His process seems rational.

I think he's making good
life choices, you know?

But like, it is the trope of
any kind of scientist movies,

they don't actually do it.

Right?

Yeah.

Because it's not cinematic in that way.

Ben: It's true.

I still want him to publish his res.

Like I know I'm going on the, like,
Batman should go, should contribute

more to charity where it's like,
cause then there would be a fucking

movie if good decisions were made.

Good decisions being made isn't
how guys get fused to apply.

Just

Jeremy: because the guy, you know.

Yeah.

Nobody's

Elana: gonna, Oh, I kept thinking, I
dunno if you guys, Oh, my cat axle is

like incredibly good at hunting bugs.

So like, when that happens, we
kept being like, Oh, if Axle was

there, he would've gotten that fly.

I mean, he might have also gotten in
there and then they would've had a

different version of Cat people where
he becomes part cat and part people.

But like I saw the fly.

I was like, Oh, that thing
would've been dead in our

Emily: apartment.

Dead in the, I've seen that anime
though, like the one where they,

they f fused the cat and the people.

At

Ben: some point this
company is gonna be like a.

What happened to this guy?

Do we own this warehouse?

? Well, what's in here?

A weird monster corpse
and teleportation pods.

Sweet man.

If I was this computer point out, so
excited to tell us all about it, that

Jeremy: this movie is like,
this movie doesn't fuck around.

It's like it's 96 minutes.

It starts with him
pitching her on the thing.

It ends with him getting shot.

Like there's no three or four endings.

There's no like, lots of lead
up to what's gonna happen.

It's like, it is.

It knows, knows what length
of horror movie should be

and it's in and out of there.

You.

Yeah.

Ben: Another question about the
computer was the voice recognition,

was that supposed to be some
kind of security protocol?

Cause as soon as it didn't recognize
his voice, he was like, eh, fuck it.

Just type it in and I'll do it from

Emily: there.

I think that was just him flexing
and being able to like do voice.

That sounds, that sounds

Ben: in character.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I, I'm with that.

Emily: I mean, earlier he was, there
was something with a password, but it

was kind of besides the, It was, it was
separate from the voice recognition thing.

I guess.

Jeremy: It was like a Star
Trek authorization code.

Yeah.

Picard Alpha authorization.

Brundle five, seven.

You know

Emily: Charlie

Jeremy: Tango.

So let's.

I did want to ask guys do we
feel like this movie is Feminist?

Is the Fly Feminist?

Yeah,

Elana: I think it is, but it, No.

Oh, I think it's feminist.

It just doesn't, that a lot of feminists
are not gonna like, have the spoons

to watch because it's triggering.

But I think it's feminist.

Absolutely.

Ben: Absolutely.

I second Elana.

Emily: Yeah, I, I disagree.

. Okay.

I mean, you have a good point and I'm,
I've actually am very happy to, to

hear this this outlook because I, you
know, for a long time I really related

with this movie in a lot of ways.

Now looking at it and seeing like how just
kind of desperate it is about everything.

I feel like it's, you know, it, it,
it doesn't, it's not clear enough

for it to come across as feminist.

I do

Jeremy: think it depends on, Whether
you think his portrayal of both Stathis

and Brundle is intentional that like
you think he know, whether you think

he knows that these guys are awful.

Okay.

Oh

Ben: yeah.

The one you say him out
loud, the more Yeah.

They sound more like Ama Throne's names.

Elana: Yeah.

Yes.

This no Cronenberg knows that they're
dirt bag, I mean she, he's using them to

show here's two different kinds of dirtbag

Ben: basically.

Yeah.

Sta is, he definitely
knows his pure dirt bag.

Yeah.

Jeremy: A good old fashioned dirt bag.

And, and Seth is more of like
a, you know, he's a, he's a

misunderstood, genius type dirt bag.

Ben: Let me put it this way.

If Stathis was taken hostage in a,
not in Nakatomi Plaza, he's asking

for a cocaine and a Coca-Cola

.
Emily: I, Yeah, yeah.

I mean, like the, the,
these guys are the worst.

The movies got to know that Geena
Davis does her best and she is the

most reasonable person in this movie.

But the tropes are just flung at her.

Like she is, is far too
sympathetic to these guys.

You know, she, she puts up
with too much shit for think

a lot of women are like that.

Elana: The

Emily: eighties.

You it, Yeah.

I mean, yes.

And, and I've been in that situation.

But that's one of the ways that
I think it's, it doesn't quite

get to the feminist point.

And also, like her, her story is so
diluted from the, the Jeff Goldblum

situation, and it's hard because Jeff
Goldblum by himself is such a fucking

star and he's so fun to watch in this
movie, even when he's covered with

the flesh and, you know, his eyeballs
are popping out and shit like, I

Jeremy: really wanted to go watch
Geena Davis play some baseball

after watching this movie.

Emily: Right.

Aw.

And there is a lot of ga, like the
most gaze of like sexualization

is on Jeff Goldblum in this movie.

Oh yeah, Yeah.

Jeremy: Mm-hmm.

. Yeah.

Geena gets like a little bit of
side move at one point, but like

for the most part she is clothed.

She is treated like not, not Gazey at all.

Jeff on the other hand I think I'm pretty
sure, I mean not just like we've got him

naked coming out of the teleport, but
there's a couple scenes where I'm pretty

sure you can see the entire outline
of his dick through his through his,

Ben: Yeah.

Get gold

Jeremy: blooms long.

I was like, Whoa, whoa.

Hi Jeff.

Gold blooms dick.

There it is.

There.

There it is.

There it is.

You call that

Ben: wet.

Jeremy: There it is.

. And her selling it finds

Emily: a way.

That is another thing is
that he literally buys Tawny.

She, she's like, I'm
not going home with you.

I'm not a hooker.

And then she goes home with him.

Jeremy: He's like,

Ben: she's like, I'm, I don't
think he buys her, I think he

just does violence and then wins
her through show of violence.

Yeah.

He is perfectly good message.

Jeremy: She seems to be on, on the
side of going home with whoever

wins this arm wrestling match.

And she's like, I like this guy
more tonight, so I hope he wins.

And then Jim Goldwin was like, What
if I broke his whole fucking arm then,

then you have to go home with me, Right?

Like, that's how the rules work for this.

Ben: And she agreed.

She's like, I see no hope falls in that

Emily: logic.

I mean, he did just break somebody's
arm and he did like grab her by the

wrist and he basically dragged her.

He did go to other bars, but
then she just got more drunk.

So there's, it's not real good
representation of consent here.

This is a very, very A
problematic situation.

So that's where I'm at there.

Also, okay.

People of color, there is one
person who is not white, who is

working at the clothing shop.

When Stathis, shows up and, and starts
like just being the worst at Geena Davis.

Jeremy: Everybody in this
movie is terrible to people

Ben: in the services industry.

Stocks breaks in east stocks
are breaks into our apartment.

Oh, stuff is is the

Jeremy: worst.

Just, I just get this picture
of John Rapo just going the,

Ben: like every time somebody
this Why did, why did you

merge your DNA with a scumbag?

Emily: I think that happened on
like, just, that just happened.

Ben: That's just him.

I mean, I will.

I absolutely give credit
and credit to John Getz.

He plays an amazing scumbag.

Jeremy: Yeah, yeah.

Status feels like a real dude.

A a terrible dude, but a real dude.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's, there's not much
to say about people of color and

social justice in this movie class
doesn't really exist in this movie.

Money is a magical construct that you just
have enough of to do whatever you want to.

Journalists have lots of it
and so does this science man.

And it's, it just, it just appears

Ben: if you are a superhero fan
out there John Getz, is an actor

who you might recently have seen in
Doom Patrol as the son of Negative

Emily: Man is.

So, is he an optimist or pessimist?

Ben: No, he's a pretty douchy character
and he shows up in like four episodes.

Double negative man.

Double

Emily: neg . Yeah.

In terms of,

Jeremy: and weirdly as, as we've talked
about, as we talked about last week

for a, a movie for a director who's so
obsessed with sex and deviance, again,

no, no queer people in this movie.

No.

Emily: But again, I also, Elana, please,

Elana: I mean, I'm really
thinking about that like no given,

given, given the fact that once

his body is shifting beyond the
confines of gender, they don't have sex

again then No, I guess you're right.

There is no, there are no,
it's all, it's, it's yeah.

There's no queer people

Emily: per se.

Yeah.

And you know, I, I'd also.

Feel like his monstrous sex, like the,
the David Cronenberg monsters of sex.

And like scary meaty flesh sex
is when it's like so monstrous.

It's problematic to project that with,
you know, and, and, and combine that with

any sort of lgbtq i a representation.

Although, you know, we did miss
something in crimes of the future.

Those, the two women that were
really horny for the equipment

were also horny for each other.

And also the, there

Jeremy: were some unclear whether
they were horny for each other or

just horny to be in the equipment.

Naked, I, I don't know, spin

Ben: horny vibes.

Emily: The Vega Mortenson's partner
was also really horny for the woman

that was getting like her face surgery.

So,

Ben: Oh yeah, she was mad
horny for face surgery.

Yeah.

And

Emily: but

Jeremy: everybody's horny
for surgery in that movie.

That's

Emily: Well, yeah, cuz it's the new sex.

Anyway, but this is not that movie.

This is a different movie.

Yeah.

But speaking of mental conditions
or physical conditions there is a

real rough dismissal of, of chemo
treatment in this movie where, um Hmm.

Jeff Goldblum initially reacts to his
transformation as, as some kind of cancer.

And he doesn't want treatment because he
doesn't wanna become basically like, you

know, I think, I can't remember what terms
he uses to, I don't remember that now.

Yeah.

But he's like, I don't want to be, you
know, on chemo drooling and basically be

an invalid, which is like, it's cancer.

I mean, that's what a lot of people are
afraid of and I think it's, you know,

not supposed to be like something that we
should identify with Jeff Goldblum, but,

you know, I think it is a symptom of his.

irrational reaction to the,
to the whole situation, but

it's not great representation.

And I do think that his stages
of grief is interesting.

You know, addressing the
stages of grief with his

transformation is, is worth noting.

I don't know if it is mm-hmm.

doing, doing any sort of
representation any favors or anything.

But the fact that he does go
through like bargaining in denial

as his teeth are falling out.

And, you know, the, the effects of shock,
which I think are kind of, undermined

a lot in horror because we are all,
you know, there's, there's a sort of

community of horror fans that are.

Impatient with people that don't react
immediately to a horrible situation with

like, Okay, I'm gonna preserve myself, but
instead I'm just gonna scream or freeze.

I think that it's important to
address that, you know, horror as

a condition is more complicated.

So that's how I feel about that.

Jeremy: Hmm.

Yeah.

I, I think, I'm not sure what this
movie has to say about disability.

It does like, deal a lot with
transformation and changing and

losing pieces of yourself and
he does adapt rather quickly.

And I, I feel like if it weren't for
the last scene of this movie, you might

be able to say that like, this movie
has, Ala has a not negative relationship

with, you know, dealing with losing
things and changing bodies and adapting.

But it really, it really goes down
the drain when his entire face splits

open and he's a flyman underneath.

Elana: I mean, I relate, I can definitely
imagine, like, one of the reasons

I'm really very vigilant about trying
to reduce my covid exposure is the

fear that things that I could have
prevented from happening to my body

will happen sooner or with greater
magnitude than would happen otherwise.

And so, like, I think that, you know,
it's a particularly challenging movie for

me at least, to try to watch right now.

But like the, the feeler of.

Physical transformation that
changes and four forces it to

change how you're able to function.

And I I, I appreciate that Seth that has
this moment of being like, you know,

he wasn't asking for a transformation,
but now he has one, and his question is,

maybe this will be the transformation
that, you know, he always wanted,

and that'll help him be actualized.

Or maybe it'll be the transformation
that makes him incapable of being like a,

functioning as a human that he wants to.

Yeah.

And I think that that's like, you
know, there's a ton of like, trans

stuff in that question, you know?

And I think that there's also,
Yeah, like a lot of fear of

disability wrapped in there as well.

I think it's going to resonate for
a ton of people along those lines.

Whether or not it's like good or
whatever, like that is how people feel.

Mm-hmm.

,
Emily: That's a good point too, because
I mean, even if this representation

of this either outlook or the attitude
of the characters of about this

particular thing, if it's not super
clear how accepting it is, you know,

it's also important to address that.

It's more complicated, you know, And
then this is not a movie about accepting

that your body is not in your control.

It's about fear.

Mm-hmm.

. And it's about how
really real that fear is.

And I think it definitely hits
in a different way right now with

the politics going on and with,
with the pandemic, because mm-hmm.

a lot of people take for granted.

The kind of effect that covid or you
know, other people can have on you.

They take for granted the things
that they don't usually see,

like, immunodeficiency and Yeah.

And when we see a movie that is
so much about these visceral fears

Elana: well, I mean, I love that this is
a movie where our character says, I think

Jeremy helped me get the quote right?

Like, take this out of me,
or I will take it out myself.

Which is, yeah, basically how every
pregnant person who doesn't wanna be.

Feels about, I don't mean to, I'm
sure some people feel like maybe

this may be that, but whatever.

I've literally never spoken to
one about like getting the shit

out and I'm like, I don't know.

That sounds like some goyish
as shit, but like, you know, I

guess it's different for people.

You should delete that.

Cause I'm sure people who have, who
have wanted to be pregnant and then

have issues, there's a different story,
but I just don't encounter that nearly

as often as I encounter people who get
pregnant and they don't want to be by.

You know, but like, so that's just
a really powerful thing there.

I, I had thought that he had had trans
actors in a number of his pieces,

but that he's like not, he doesn't
want to like make that about them.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

So I think it's good.

It's great that he's like hiring people.

Emily: Yeah.

Elana: I, Yes.

And yeah, like, I think it gets,
I mean, and Butterfly is like

a movie about trans people.

And I, I'm very curious how
I'd feel about watching it now.

I haven't seen it.

I'm really curious.

It, I, I really loved it and I'm,
I'm, it's, it's from a long time

ago and I'm very curious how you
know, like what it'll, what it

would feel like watching now.

But I don't know.

What's interesting

Jeremy: to me is like, I think on this
subject of like whether they should

have, you know, poor people or, or
characters or trans characters in stories.

I think like him doing M Butterfly,
but then like not having just

queer characters and other stories.

I, I've never seen M Butterfly,
but I think for me that would

be the wrong way to do it.

Just because like you are telling,
you are a person who is not.

Trans telling a story that is
very much about being trans.

Yeah.

Rather than telling a story that
includes a diversity of characters,

which is, I think what what is missing
from these stories is like, you know,

we, I, I made the comparison to X-Men
last time of like, you can only have

so many metaphors for queer people
without ever involving queer people

with it out of feeling like a problem.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, these days there's
ways to do it for sure.

Jeremy: I mean, 86, it was probably a
little more difficult slide in there,

Emily: but Yeah.

And again, with the, with Kernen Burke
and his, like the, the just weird sex

it probably would've done more harm than
good because I did mention, you know,

Jeffrey Dahmer earlier and You know,
the, that kind of crazy body horror shit.

And like a lot of the, the weird
sex that like you see in horror

or that you hear about in horror,
True crime was a really big excuse

for homophobia for a lot of people.

And, you know, now I feel like there,
the, the we're, the conversation

has evolved enough that, you know, I
think David Cronenberg can certainly

do it at, at the time of the fly or
you know, video drum or whatever.

Probably not.

Also the Fly is a movie where
a woman gives birth to a mag.

It.

Has anyone made a joke about
how bad healthcare is when David

Cronenberg's your gynecologist, man,

Elana: He would definitely be better
than some people I've dealt with.

That's true.

. Like, cause he's got the empathy
factor, you know, that's true.

That to

Jeremy: David Cronenberg.

Just, just, just looking,
looking at a vagina and being

like, Man, that's fucked up.

I'm sorry.

Like,

Elana: okay.

One, Yeah, he probably does have a little
bit of that in there, but two, like, I

think he'd be like, Oh, you're in pain.

Like, let's get you drugs
and be like, Thank you.

Yeah.

Understanding

Emily: that.

Well, I think he would look at
a vagina and be like, Huh, okay.

And he'd make notes like,

Elana: but like, so we're gonna
do dead ringers then, right.

Guys?

Like the, his film, Oh my God.

Emily: My, I want, I wanted out of Dead
Ringers isn't on a list for this crow

ember, but maybe for another Crow ember.

But that one, that one I can't,
like I've, I've considered like,

is Jeremy Irons on Jeremy, like
Jeremy Irons Times Jeremy Irons.

That does not count as
GT Q I A, first of all.

No, that's a really good question.

That's a good question
that, Well, I've, I'm

Ben: gonna answer that question.

Is it self is its own category.

Emily: It's And it is also, Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's, it's like him and Twin,
and he is supposed to be a twin

brother, but like, Yeah, it's,

Jeremy: yeah, I mean, I, I think
we definitely are gonna have to do

more Cronenberg movies because I
do wanna talk about dead ringers.

I do also wanna talk about the dead zone.

It's,

Emily: that's

Jeremy: right.

Cause that's fucking wild

.
Elana: Oh be, no, I mean, I really wanna
watch rewatched dead ringers, but part of

me has been like, Lana, you've undergone
so much more medical trauma since then.

Maybe you were fine
watching that in college.

You wouldn't be fine watching it now.

So like, I'm totally gonna have someone
like go and tell me, like, be like,

Let me download my shit with you.

You tell if I get still watch this or not.

But like, you know, Ellan who
hadn't had as much medical trauma

was like right there with it.

So

.
Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

That the, the thing about these films,
Dead Ringers and The Fly and a lot of

these movies with the gynecology involved
with Berg Flush, We talk about the flush.

Ben: No, just the flash or the,

Emily: So guys, I forgot
what I was gonna say, guys.

Movies worth watching.

I,

Elana: and no, no thoughts anymore.

Only wildly West.

Emily: Um, Yeah,

Ben: and I'm, I'm pretty torn on
if this movie's worth watching.

Like, I didn't love it, but I definitely
didn't hate, I definitely didn't hate it.

Definitely got a lot of good
stuff going on, but not the most

emotionally satisfying film I've seen.

Emily: This is definitely science fiction.

Movie homework, though.

Like if you wanna just Oh yeah.

Have.

Some experiences under your belt.

Again, mind the content warnings.

There's a lot of things that
are big fad deal breakers.

And you

Jeremy: forgot this far.

Hopefully you listened to
the content warnings at the

beginning cuz it's a paragraph.

Emily: Yeah.

Cause like, Oh yeah.

And, and you know, I went into this movie,
I was really excited because I remembered,

you know, Jeff Goldblum naked and then
I'm like, Oh yeah, there is a bunch of

like, coercion and like rape allegory and,
you know, almost literal rape and, you

know, abortion and like evil baby trope.

And

Jeremy: yeah, I mean, it is again, like
there's a lot of potential triggers and

I obviously understand if you listen
to that list and you're like, Nope.

Don't wanna see it.

I, I like it way more than crimes
of the future, which, you know, I,

like I said, I didn't vibe with.

Last time, I think, it's
a hot, like 92 minutes.

It's in and it's out and it's incredible
performances pretty much all around.

I think, like I said, a lot of how you
come away from it, I think depends on

what you think Cronenberg means by it.

Because like if, you know, if you, if
if you think as I do that he knows that

these guys suck and that, you know,
he is again sympathetic to the Geena

Davis character in this, then like, I
think it's a lot easier in his stomach.

And I think that if nothing
else, the special effects in

this movie are fucking rad.

Like oh yeah,

Ben: all of the transformation.

Oh, incredible.

At that, once

Elana: I was capable of watching
with my eyes open, were definitely

Ben: no the effects in
this movie, 10 Outta 10.

Like absolutely there's not, at

Jeremy: some point in this movie where
you're watching it and you go, Great

body, ah, if you don't do that, if you
don't make that noise at some point in

this movie, you are stronger than me.

Ben: Every time he throws up acid.

Jeremy: Yeah, that was, I, I shared
before this podcast started that uh, as

I was watching it last night Alicia came
in to talk to me with about 10 minutes

left in the movie and I paused it for her
and she was like, Well, if you're gonna

finish it, you should go ahead and finish
it now and I'll just stay here for it.

And it was right before he
pukes up acid all over his

sta is his hand and then foot.

And they, they disintegrate.

And uh, boy, she did not like that.

She left five minutes after starting
it did not make it through the last 10

minutes of the movie that she came in for.

Fair.

Yeah.

It's, it's a lot.

Yeah.

I mean, I, I do think it's worth seeing.

I think if nothing else, for
just the pure craft of it.

On that note what do we recommend
for people if they wanna check out

something else, either related to
this or uh, as a, a thing to, to take,

to get this taste outta their mouth.

Elana, what do you
recommend people check out?

So, two

Elana: things.

Again, I'm glad I watched this movie.

It's an important movie, da da da da.

But I needed to get it outta my head
when I was done before I could go to bed.

So I did watch, This
is quite the opposite.

Dead end paranormal park.

Really good cartoon.

Very, very queer cast.

Lots of fun, very campy.

And it is horror, but it's like,
you know, it's easy horror.

It's not existential horror, of
course, it's a fucking kids show.

So let me tell you, an adult
movie, which I definitely did not

watch right after this because
it would've taken too much time.

But if you like a good mad
scientist movie I definitely

recommend checking out from Beyond.

Oh my God.

Which, have you guys
covered that movie yet?

No.

It feels like a very much like you guys
could do this, cover this movie, but Sure.

From Beyond.

Yes.

From beyond is, Sorry,
just got me one second.

Sorry.

Obviously can't miss for all of us.

G Kum, Aile, chil, um mm-hmm.

, but yeah, it's directed by the also
director of ReAnimator Stuart Gordon.

It's based on a HP Lovecraft story,
but it's very, very much focused

on body horror and psychological
horror of pituitary glam studies.

Go muck and yeah, it's, it's horror.

It's sci-fi.

It's creative.

It's got interesting shit going on.

I do not think it's super triggering,
at least it wasn't for me.

But there's definitely plenty of
gross out, like cover everything

in k y Jelly , you know, approach
to physical side effects.

And of course, like who amongst us
doesn't also love Barbara Crampton as Dr.

Catherine McMichael.

Yeah, I know exactly the Barbara
Crampton as a doctor Crampton.

And like, yeah, some like fun s and m
set pieces and just really a really great

classic bee horror movie of the eighties.

Just b in terms of budget and like
the issues it's interested in, but

a in terms of quality, you know.

Yeah.

Especially quality for dollars
spent, you know, . Yeah,

Jeremy: absolutely.

Emily, I think you've shared some
of, of what you wanted to recommend.

But what all do

Emily: you have?

Well, I did mention Earth Girls Are Easy,
which is I think a good pellet cleanser

after this, if you wanna see some real,
like good I don't know, wholesome is

the word I would use, but just funny,
goofy eighties alien movie with some

Jeff Goldblum, Geena Davis Chemistry.

That movie I feel like is more feminist.

It is, it also is a musical.

They have a song about getting
your hair done called Curl Up

and Die, and it's really good.

Hmm.

And house house's like Baby Jim Carey
in it which is you know, a trip.

And I believe Damon weighs,
if I am not mistaken.

Yeah.

There's, it's kind of an all star cast.

But then there's also, if you like, the
imagery of Jeff Goldblum Catching Flies.

There is a weird little movie.

It's not a good movie, but it's worth
it to see Jeff Goldblum catching

Flies and portraying the Devil.

And that's Mr.

Frost, which is a British film where
Jeff called him is a place that Devil is

trying to get a therapist to kill him.

So it's pretty wild.

But he, you know, he takes it away.

It's like super young, Jeff Goldblum,
like, Ilad Crane, Jeff Goldblum.

So check that out.

If you, It's, I think
it's on YouTube for free.

Jeremy: Nice.

Free is always a good price.

Yeah.

Ben, what do you have to recommend?

Ben: You know, if you wanna see more
fly monsters, Check out any of the

Baxter Stockman episodes from any of the
Assorted Teenage Moon Ninja Turtle series.

Hmm

Emily: hmm.

Bless him.

Baxter Stockman I think was like the other
way for this character to go where he's

like, I actually do want to tame my rage.

And you know, I wasn't insect dreaming.

I was a man, but I liked,
I liked also being a man.

I can be both.

Ben: Well, maybe Jeff Goldblum
would've gotten to that place if

he didn't end up fued to a radiator

Jeremy: maybe.

Yeah.

I mean that, that tends to be a setback.

Ben: He was just getting into
his like super fly monster phase.

Like, you know, he could have put on
a lab coat next like he was on his

Emily: way.

Yeah.

Like he was actually starting to build
car and, you know, just give it time.

Ben: Fusion with TelePod,
successful . This

Jeremy: computer so successful,
this, the computer's, the

real villain of this movie.

Ben: Computer's a fucking asshole.

Emily: I mean, computers.

Well, he, he

Jeremy: did negative, the
corny bad idea machine.

Emily: He said, The computers are stupid.

They only do what they,
what you tell them.

And the computer's like, ha ha, ha.

Elana: Well then, but that, that
is a real programmer saying.

So I felt kind of like, I bet people
watching the movie in the eighties

might not have heard that at that point.

And I think it's an important
thing for people to understand.

You know?

Emily: Absolutely.

I do agree.

This is what I sell my folks
whenever they're confused by

the phone is the computer.

You are more than the computer.

The computer is not better than you.

It's okay anyway.

Yeah.

Jeremy: We're talking about a lot of other
Cronenberg stuff, a lot of other things

that are similar to this movie in theme.

So I thought it was a good opportunity
to recommend some some stuff to

check out from these two actors.

So you can go watch Geena Davis
League of their Own is a lot of fun.

Some of the stuff is not aged
terribly well but she is great in it.

It's a lot of fun to watch.

Possibly even better is Thema
and Louise which she's fantastic.

And if you want some fun, Jeff
Goldblum that you know, you may not

have seen, cuz it's not Jurassic Park.

You can check him out in Adventures
of Buckoo Boni across the eighth

Dimension which he is very fun in.

And also, If you ever wanna walk down a
weird memory lane if you go watch Captain

Planet and the Planeteers, Jeff Goldblum
is the voice of Venomous Scum himself.

So, that's always a, I
don't remember that trivia.

So go go check out some old Captain
Planet if you can find it anywhere.

, he is a ve venomous.

But that wraps it up for us, Elana,
Can you let people know where they

can find out more about you and,
and what you're working on online?

Elana: Sure can.

I spend too much time on Twitter
at E L A N A underscore Brooklyn.

That's e l a n a, underscore Brooklyn.

I host the podcast Graphic Policy radio
where we talk to such comics, artists,

writers, luminaries, such as the folks
here today who at this point, every

single one of you as guests, that
on graphic policy at least one time.

And for your and I'm about to
have some stuff on and or come up,

which is not comics, but like had
to be covered because I like look

at all those comrades and space.

Man, that's some good
leftist television material.

I also co-host the podcast Deep Space
Dive, which is housed with in graphic

policy radio and it is a deep space.

Star Trek, these Space nine podcast
where folks including most recently

New York State Senator Gustavo Vera
joins to talk with us about deep

space nine s themes and politics.

Yeah, we have a range of experts
coming on and joining us.

It was exciting to have
an elected official.

Oh my God.

Yeah, those are my.

Emily: I said, I just said, Oh my God.

Like, yeah, that was,

Elana: he basically like
pitched himself actually.

So that made me very happy.

That's awesome.

We, we had, we, we, we couldn't record
right away because he turned out

to have like a completely bullshit
primary election opponent that was

funded by the real estate industry.

Oh.

So I was like, god dammit, now we have
to actually campaign, so you can't come

on until after you win the primaries.

So anyway.

But yeah, it's that kind of podcast.

So yeah, those are my major projects
and of course folks should keep

listening to progressively horrified.

One last plug though is that playlist
that Emily and I made of Hell Razor the

Hellrazor playlist entitled Hell Razor.

Folks should definitely listen to that.

Emily: That's on the, that's on
the Twitter as well, so Oh, cool.

That, yeah, that's on, I know
that's on your Twitter, but Yeah.

Um, I've, I've also retweeted
or re blogged or I try to, of

Jeremy: course we're gonna have to
get to it at some point, but if people

haven't seen the new Hell Razor.

Very much recommend checking that out.

It's well do rule.

Do.

I'm excited.

Yeah, well, we'll definitely have
to get to that at some point.

For now you can find Emily at Mega
Moth on Twitter and mega underscore

moth on Instagram and@megamoth.net.

Ben is on Twitter at Ben Theon and
on the website@benconcomics.com.

And finally for me, you can find
me on Instagram at j Room five

eight and on Twitter at the same.

And my website is jeremy whitley.com where
you can check out everything that I write.

And of course, the podcast is on
Patreon at progressively horrified our

website@progressivelyhorrified.transistor.fm
and Twitter at Prague who pod where.

We'd love to hear from you.

And speaking of loving to hear
from you, we would love it if you

would leave us a review there.

Five Stars helps us find new listeners,
helps new listeners find us, especially

during this uh, time right after
our scary movie month where people

have been uh, you know, looking
to, to engage about scary movies.

And I do again, wanna
thank Elana for joining us.

It was great as always.

Love having y on Elana.

Emily: Yeah, thank you Elana.

Aw, thank you

Elana: so much for having me.

You guys

Ben: always great having you.

You are the, you're a
progressively horrified all star

Jeremy: for real friend of the show, and
uh, thanks to all of you for listening.

And until next time, stay horrified.

Alicia: Progressively horrified
is created by Jeremy Whitley

and produced by Alicia Whitley.

This episode featured the horror
squad, Jeremy Ben and Emily.

Along with special guest Elana Levin.

All opinions expressed by the
commentators are solely their own

and do not represent the intent or
opinion of the filmmakers nor do they

represent the employers, institutions,
or publishers of the commentators.

Our theme music is epic darkness
by Mario And was provided

royalty free from Pixabay.

If you liked this episode,
you can support us on Patrion.

You can also get in touch with us on
Twitter at Prague horror pod, or by

email@progressivelyhorrifiedatgmail.com.

Thanks for listening.

Bye.