Scream 3 (aka Crazy. Faxy. Cool) with T. J. Finecey
Alicia: Hey, just a heads up the
episode you're about to listen to
is about Scream 3 - directed by Wes
Craven and written by Ehren Kruger.
It includes references to sexual
violence and our hosts have
ranked this movie as spooky.
Well, it's not really that spooky.
If you'd like to learn more,
please visit our website at
for show notes, relevant links
and transcripts of each episode.
After the spooky music, we will
talk about the episode in full.
So be forewarned.
There will be spoilers.
Now let's get on with the show.
Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified: the podcast
where we hold horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.
Tonight, we're talking about
the third and final chapter of
the five part trilogy Scream 3.
I'm your host, Jeremy Whitley.
And with me tonight, I have a
panel of cinephiles and Cenobites.
First, they're here to invade
your house and find queer content
and all your favorite movies.
My co-host, and comic
book writer, Ben Kahn!
Ben, how are you tonight?
Ben: Y'all we've done a lot of
movies for this podcast dedicated
to horror, a genre, all about
surprising you and frightening you.
In all the movies we've seen.
Nothing has both shocked me and
unmoored me from my sense of reality
than the Jay and Silent Bob cameo.
I actually screamed!
Ben: It might be the most insane thing
I've ever seen in any film and I just
watched the French car banging movie.
I thought I was having a stroke.
Ben: Get ready for my spiciest
take on this movie: I think they
should have been the killers.
Emily: There you go.
Jeremy: And we picked her up
at the spooky crossroads of
anime and sexy monster media.
It's co-host and comics
artist, Emily Martin, Emily.
How are you?
Emily: I swear on all of the Pulitzer
Prizes that I promise I will win,
that I will give this movie the
best chance that it deserves.
Ben: It's a good thing Gale had some good
lines, cause her haircut sure wasn't.
Emily: It looked fine
when her hair was up.
That's the thing, is it like
they didn't test what it would
look like when it was down.
Jeremy: And somebody who definitely wants
to talk about Gale's haircut I'm sure.
Our special guest tonight, one of
the hosts of the Gotham Outsiders:
Batman Book Club, TJ Finecey.
How are you?
TJ: I'm good.
Thank you for having me back again.
Jeremy: We love talking about
Scream with you, for sure.
Ben: I'm so happy you're here, TJ.
TJ: But yes, her haircut.
I, like I said, I didn't re-watch
this immediately before recording,
so I did not have the visual of
her haircut until you mentioned it.
And then it was like PTSD.
It just came right back.
People, like, that's the
true villain of uh, Scream 3.
Jeremy: I wanna say that the, the
true villain of Scream 3 is, uh,
screenwriter Ehren Kruger who uh...
Ben: I'm gonna be nice to Kruger.
Jeremy: The true villain of
Scream 3 is Harvey Weinstein.
the director is Wes Craven still.
So he's still there, but we lose
Kevin Williamson who wrote the first
two and we get Ehren Kruger instead.
Kevin Williamson was too busy
writing, literally everything in the
year, 2000, and, and couldn't fit,
Scream into his schedule right then.
He did write an outline of the
script, which they threw out.
But at this time Dawson's Creek,
which he created was, premiered in
1998 and was, you know, oh yeah.
At its height at this point.
The Faculty, which he wrote came out in
1998, Halloween H2O came out in 1998.
And he was directing teache- Teaching Mrs.
Tingle, which came out in 1999
while this movie was being made.
So he was a little uh-
Ben: He was busy.
Little busy boy.
Jeremy: The, uh, Weinstein brothers
decided they weren't going to wait
and they were just gonna hire some
dude to write the script and give him
a month to do it even though he had
never seen either of the Scream movies,
to the point that Wes Craven had to
come in and rewrite pieces of the
script himself as they were making it.
Ben: Well, Jeremy, I feel like
that's, uh, Much more tasteful way
of the way I would've phrased it.
Cuz I would've said the real
villain of Scream 3 is Columbine.
The ha- the horrible real world tragedy
that forced them to fucking rewrite
the whole movie like a month before
production was supposed to start
and tone down all the violence to a
really, really distractible degree.
Jeremy: People keep not getting stabbed
on screen in this movie because they
didn't want this like visual violence
and blood this close to, the Columbine
shooting, which makes the movie confusing
because you're never sure if anybody
dying is a red herring, cause nobody
ever dies on screen and it's like,
yeah, they sort of move to stab somebody
and then they're not there anymore.
Well that's so much so that when
someone actually dies on screen,
I was like, oh, that's fake.
TJ: Then there is a fake
one and you're like, what?
That didn't look fake.
Ben: Really pisses me off because
the movie went out of its way to have
Gale check his pulse and be like, yep.
We are double mega confirming.
He is absolutely dead.
Speaking of Gale, this movie
does again, star Courteney Cox.
We have Neve Campbell back, even though
apparently she was only available
for two weeks, cause she also was
filming everything in the year 2000-
Ben: and it's noticeable.
She does not reunite with the other
characters until 50 minutes in and
then spends like half an hour of Act
III, just chilling in a police station.
Jeremy: She's also not in the same
room as the person who committed the
murders until the confession scene.
Courteney Cox and David Arquette are
the real main characters of this movie.
Liev Schreiber is back for a brief period.
Parker Posey is here.
Patrick Dempsey is here.
Lance Henriksen, Scott
Foley, Roger Corman.
And I, I have to stop somewhere cuz
there's like a long list of people
that we could include here, not to
mention Kevin Smith and Jason Mews
Ben: Carrie Fisher as not Carrie Fisher.
Emily: As someone
perpetually in her shadow.
Ben: I think we can agree though that the
MVP of this movie Parker fucking Posey.
Emily: Oh my God.
Jeremy: Without question.
Emily: Oh my God.
Ben: She's amazing and all
of her fashion is incredible.
Emily: And she has the most distinct arc.
Jeremy: Every scene that she and
Courteney Cox are in together
doing their Scooby Do-ass bullshit.
If this movie just the two of them
doing this, I would adore this movie.
Ben: My favorite moment
she has in this movie.
It's early on when she's worried that
she's the next one who's gonna be killed.
And Dewey has already like walked
off the scene and she just like pouts
over and then just throws herself
into Patrick Warburton's arms.
TJ: There's still like a section
of the fandom who was like, she
could still be alive and I totally
get it just cuz she's so good.
Ben: Listeners, so, you know, uh,
during this episode we will be freely
talking about spoilers from Scream 1
through three, and there will be no
spoilers at all, for Scream 4 and 5.
And I know it's a Scream parentheses
2022, go fuck yourself it's Scream 5.
Jeremy: So the IMDb says, while Sidney
and her friends, mostly her friends,
uh, visit the Hollywood set of Stab
3, the, the third film based on the
Woods- Woodsboro murders, another
Ghostface killer rises to terrorize them.
and I think it's fair to say
that this is the black sheep
of the Scream franchise, right?
This is my second time watching it and
I will say I had more of a fun ride
with it on the second time around.
And I think I was a little more
forgiving of some of its flaws.
Ben: One of my favorite aspects
of the Scream franchise is the
whodunit element and the mystery.
Of the four that I've seen, this
is definitely the least satisfying,
reveal or for the mystery.
TJ: I agree.
I mean, I don't know.
I went into this movie with the lowest
of expectations because I had heard
that people didn't like it and that it
was sort of the black sheep or whatever
the the pariah, whatever that means.
Ben: Love that line.
I don't even know what that means.
But I actually really enjoyed it.
I think This movie has a lot of the
best like metatextual satire stuff in it.
But also this movie has a real
cabin in the woods problem of like
setting up these jokes about things.
And then also just being
that at the same time.
They, they play it out and they make
some great, they make some great gags
about stuff that happens in the movie.
The fact that Jenny McCarthy's character
is complaining about her character
dying in the second scene she's in
during the second scene that Jenny
McCarthy's in, where she dies is
hilarious to me like that, that bit.
Ben: Yeah, from a love of just,
like, super villain puns I love
the moment where Milton tells you-
he says, I'll give you final cut.
And then he says, I already have it.
And then cuts his throat.
It's a great line, which is then
immediately ruined because there
is a distractingly lack of blood
from getting your throat slit.
Emily: I mean, it takes a bit, but
it's not like a horror movie cut.
Ben: It's a Scream movie!
I want blaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhd!!!!
Emily: They fucking exploded a house.
Ben: That was cool except for the
hilariously bad effect of them jumping
off the balcony and them just like
green screen superimposing like,
fireball effect behind them, fading out.
Jeremy: Some stunt person did a real
painful roll down that hill though.
Cause that roll is very real.
TJ: But that said, I don't
think this is a bad movie.
I don't think it's a bad Scream movie.
I do agree that it's the black sheep just
in general, but like me personally, like.
I put like 2 and 3 are
kind of tied for me.
And two is kind of like up there
for a lot of people, but I think
three is really, really, really fun.
Ben: Scream movies are like pizza- even
the worst ones are still pretty damn good.
Ben: Like I will take the
worst Scream movie over.
So many of like the good
films of other franchises.
Jeremy: There, there are things
in two that I don't love, but
there's sort of intentional things.
Whereas three, it is so clear that it's
being rewritten throughout and it's
being changed and they're having to
make edits both, you know, conceding
to folks, but also because they have
their lead actors only available for
like two weeks to film this thing.
And they have so many things changing
on the fly that like, there are a
lot of logical holes in the movie,
things that just don't make any sense.
And don't work.
Like you were talking about the
scene of the house blowing up.
The house blows up as the guy is getting
a fax, which is coming in in a house
where the electricity has been cut
Um, which like.
Emily: It's on the phone line, Jeremy!
Jeremy: No, you have power to a fax.
Fax has to have power.
Ben: Ghostface, fuckin' communicating-
Emily: Special phonel-
Ben: Communicating to them
through a fax machine though.
That's like the kind of self-referential
humor that I think Scream 3 excels at.
Emily: Like the, The movie itself
being a disaster and the actual
movie in the movie being a disaster,
I thought it worked really well.
And even like the, cheesy parts, it
didn't make any sense were so self parody.
Like that's why I thought it worked.
I think this is my favorite Scream movie.
Ben: It works.
TJ: I love that for you.
Ben: It works as the cheesiest one.
TJ: A lot of people say it's the
lightest one, but like, there's
a lot of emotional stuff too.
Like with Sidney, and the scene
specifically where she walks into
her old house and bedroom in the-
on the set of the movie, like
that's, to me, that's so emotional.
You know, all this stuff with
her while she is very secluded.
And I think that's, to me a problem
in the film, like her emotional
journey in the, I really like,
Ben: Sidney does have a very
clear character arc in this film.
She starts isolated and locked
up and ends the movie surrounded
by friends and open to the world.
Like it is a clear journey, even
if she spends most of it, just
sitting in a room by herself.
Emily: I sympathize with her upset because
they replaced the poster on her wall.
It used to be Ani de Franco and
then it became creed not fuck me up.
Jeremy: Before we get into the
soundtrack, we're talking about
stuff that is heavy in this movie.
I do wanna talk about the one thing
that makes watching this movie heavy and
difficult in the year of our Lord, 2022.
This is a movie produced by Miramax,
which is the company of Harvey and Bob
Weinstein, in which the central conflict
that sort of drives this thing is
this reveal of Sidney's mother's past.
That she used to be an actress and
quit acting because she went to
a director/producer's house to go
to a party and was subsequently
abused and raped at this party.
That is a real thing that Harvey
Weinstein was doing while he was
producing this movie in which that is
part of the plot blows my fucking mind.
I know they were like rewriting
this as it was going on.
Did this man read this script
while this was being made and say,
that doesn't sound at all like me?
Or did, was he, oh man, it's
just, it hurts my brain.
Cause it's so weird to watch
now and be like, holy shit.
Part of the reason this movie is fucked
up in some of the ways it is, is because
like Harvey Weinstein was pushing
them to do it cheap and fast and being
abusive to the people making the movie
when literally the character in the
movie has the motivations and issues of
Harvey Weinstein, That are not- were
not being discussed, at least publicly,
at the point that this movie was made.
And I don't know if, the people
making this movie knew about
these things at the time.
Wes Craven is, is beyond being
asked at this point but like,
it's real weird to watch now.
Emily: Yeah, I was-
Ben: This movie real fucking meta!
Well, that's one of the
reasons that I was into it.
Cause I was like, wow, they
really went there and they
really talked about that too.
Like I was not expecting
them to get into that.
I didn't even make the connection
of Miramax and, and Weinstein.
I mean, I knew that he was involved
at some point, but you know, the
Miramax thing just didn't click.
So that fact, and like that whole
context is now a kind of, even better.
Ben: Carrie Fisher has a line where Carrie
Fisher claims that Carrie Fisher only got
the role of Princess Leia because she,
Carrie Fisher slept with George Lucas.
I don't know what the
fuck to make of that joke.
TJ: She makes that- she
made that joke a lot.
Since you're talking about the rewrites
and the Weinsteins in general, uh,
wanna bring back up Kevin Williamson.
I don't know if I mentioned this
last time we recorded, but, back
in October, I got to chat with the
Kevin Williamson for an hour via Zoom.
It was pretty cool.
I had some questions.
I asked him about how gay
Billy and Stu were supposed
to be some Scream 4 questions.
Someone else there asked him about Scream
3 and I'm sure this is something he's
talked about elsewhere too, but he did
mention the difficulty with, I think
it was Harvey Weinstein specifically.
There was some butting of heads there.
I don't know more than that, but
he said he did write like a 20
page, like outline like a draft
of what he wanted Scream 3 to be.
And they passed on it.
Kevin, his draft ended up
basically turning into Scream 4.
The one thing that was different that,
I think is great, is he said that the
killer reveal of Scream 3, would've
been like, Sidney in a room and all
these people are dead, all the victims.
And just when she thinks she's got the
killer, all of the dead victims get
up and that, that you find out they're
all in on it and were all the killer.
And apparently he took that idea and kind
of turned it into the show, The Following
with Kevin Bacon, which he wrote.
So Scream 3.
TJ: turned into that.
Ben: Like that.
I really like the idea of that as a twist,
but then you start thinking about it.
It's like, wait, so nobody died.
So this was all just a really epic prank.
Well, there's a point where I felt
like the group of actors that were at
the birthday party were all in on it.
Because everybody was just
so casual about everything,
Ben: I really think Emily Mortimer
should have been the killer.
Jeremy: Well, so, apparently in the, in
one of the original drafts and up until
they were filming the end of this movie.
Emily Mortimer was supposed
to be the second killer.
Ben: No, no.
I don't want Emily Mortimer
as the sidekick to fucking
Roman's secret brother, stuff.
I want her as the main killer
and being like, I am you Sidney?
I just think Emily Mortimer
would've been creepy and awesome.
Emily: Oh yeah.
I mean like that would've made sense and
you know, they telegraphed it hard, but
they telegraphed everybody super hard.
TJ: I agree with you, Ben.
I think the Sidney actress
would've made a much better killer.
If they leaned into the me too
aspects of the film, I feel like
they could have made her stand on
her own as a killer at the end.
We feel bad for her already.
Like I would've been like,
yeah, kill 'em all girl.
Ben: I feel like they started with
this oh, we have to change people's
understanding of the back story.
And then that informed their
decision rather than trying to come
up with I don't know an interesting
motivation for the killer.
They started with this rule and
I don't know, I just wonder if
it boxed them in a little bit.
Jeremy: The number of people who were
supposed to be something at some point
in this movie is pretty wild because
at one point Tea Leoni was going to
be playing the Parker Posey character.
David Boreanaz was going to
be playing detective Kincaid.
Wes Craven was supposed to
be John Milton at one point.
They went all over the place, everybody
and anybody who was anybody in like early
two thousands was supposed to be in this.
At one point, they had cast both
Paul Walker and James VanDerBeek
at different points as Tom.
Both of which I think would've
been fantastic for that.
Ben: Either of those
would have been better.
Paul Walker, James Vanderbeek
definitely, would've been more memorable.
I mean, it would've been like
more of a cameo thing, but-
So many people that could
have been in this movie.
So let's talk a little bit about
what actually happens in this movie.
Ben: Or I guess, should we briefly
talk about what almost happened?
Before Columbine forced them
to rewrite everything, which.
Again, TJ, please correct me
if I've gotten this wrong.
I'm mostly getting this off of the
Wikipedia part of the Scream 3 page.
The original plot was that Matthew
Lillard, Stu, had survived and
was directing teenage Ghostfaces
to like kill in his name.
And then they're like, ooh,
maybe we shouldn't have teenage
killers right after Columbine.
I think Matthew Lillard is the
first one that came out and
said that like a few years back.
But I can't remember whose idea that was
like, if that was Kevin Williamson, I,
for some reason I'm thinking it wasn't
Kevin Williamson, cuz he seems very
much like let's leave Stu in the past.
So I don't know who that came from, but
yeah, like that was totally a thing that
was supposed to happen at some point.
Jeremy: So, we open in Los
Angeles with Cotton Weary-
Jeremy: Liev Schreiber, now a
successful TV talk show host.
Uh, he's filmed a cameo in Stab 3.
But he is, in LA traffic on
the phone with his agent.
He gets a, a call from somebody
who doesn't identify themselves,
who's talking with a woman's voice.
Who's pretending to be a fan
of his because you know, they
just recognize his voice.
And it is revealed that it is, another
Ghostface Killer, who says, you know, he
is at, Cotton's house and watching his
girlfriend a character to whom we have
never been introduced from the shower.
Which is a thing they will
talk about in the movie in the
movie, which they literally do
at the beginning of this movie.
She enters from the shower and
proceeds to, you know, have
a, a killer coming after her.
Uh, this is also where it is
introduced that our killer in this
one has not his usual voice machine,
but a voice machine that can copy
anybody's voice and, um, make it work.
So it's, you can sound like
anybody, which is hard hard sci-fi.
I have thoughts about the voice changer.
It's now practically a superpower.
Being able to imitate just anybody,
including just dead people, people
that are dead that died before cell
phones were invented, you can get
their voice from apparently the no
lines they had in Amazon Aliens or
whatever the fuck those movies were.
He got me with it when he was doing it
with Cotton's voice, which is like very
attainable he's, you know, on, on TV,
I was like, oh, maybe he's remixed it.
Somehow he is using something
where he, can filter it
through some kind of software.
Uh, but then when he speaks to
Sidney as her mom, at one point
in this movie who has been dead
since before the first movie, I was
like, Nope, I'm out on this one.
I'm out on this idea as working.
It, it doesn't make any sense.
Ben: It's- the movie has to be taken as a
more campy version of itself, just because
I think the voice changer is one area that
just stretches the disbelief past, where
the tone of 1 and 2 could have taken you.
Jeremy: She discovers it and
starts talking in different
people's voices using it.
One of whom is the actual killer.
I don't know why he's been disguising
his voice to sound like himself, but
he has his own voice in the thing.
Ben: That does bring up one point from
a little later in the movie with Sarah's
death, where she is getting called
from quote on the quotes, Roman, who
is actually Ghostface and she's talking
Roman and then it turns into Ghostface.
Do you think Roman was talking
in his regular voice and
then switched to Ghostface?
Or did he still use his own voice on
the voice changer to talk through?
Was it just like double Roman voice?
Emily: I- I bet you it was double.
Jeremy: On top of that, he's in the
next room over, already in a costume
hanging on the rack, talking to her and
she doesn't hear that there's somebody
in the next room over talking to her?
This scene only makes sense if there's
two killers, which apparently like
there's a scene that was cut right
before this, where like, you can see
that there is somebody else watching
her as she goes into this trailer.
Uh, that's supposed to be Roman who
is then making this call and then
the killer is supposed to be Emily
Mortimer's character which makes way
more sense, uh, to both this scene-
Ben: Way more sense!
Jeremy: Both this scene and the
scene where, uh, where they're
chasing Sid around the prop house?
Jeremy: And like Ghostface just pops
up everywhere and then is also under a
blanket, pretending to be her dead mom
only makes sense if there's two people.
TJ: Or was a PTSD thing.
TJ: I have to say on the voice
changer, I don't hate it, but
it's like when you have Roger L.
Jackson, who was just so good
with the Ghostface voice, I just
feel like it really took away some
good stuff from him in this one.
Ben: It bothered me and then
I figured out, oh, shit.
Hollywood's probably been developing this
so they don't have to pay voice actors.
Emily: I mean, in the Scream verse.
Jeremy: Cotton and his
girlfriend get killed.
It doesn't really matter.
This was apparently Liev Schreiber's
idea is to be the guy who was killed
at the beginning of this movie.
And also Liev Schreiber, uh, required
that he, wear a tight uh, shirt
instead of the, uh, normal outfit that
he was supposed to be wearing in this,
because he had been working out a lot.
Emily: Well good for him.
Ben: God bless you, Liev Schreiber.
You can tell this movie takes place
in 2000 because there's a fantastic
moment of him having a cell phone in
one hand and a car phone in the other.
Emily: Yeah, well, there's that.
Also did you know that you could
just circumvent LA traffic by running
into people and driving around it?
Ben: Also I feel like it's important
to note that while Ghostface is
attacking Cotton's girlfriend,
Ghostface has put on Creed music?!
Emily: But yeah, so Cotton Weary died.
His show was called a
hundred percent Cotton.
I thought that was a pretty good.
Ben: Amazing show title.
TJ: Were you guys sad for Cotton or
were you like, all right, see ya?
Emily: I was a little sad,
but I was like, you know, this
is a good sendoff for Cotton.
Ben: It's kind of what I expect
from supporting characters
who survived their first one.
Like the way like Randy made
it through the first one.
And then bit it in the second.
I'm kind of like, yeah, this makes sense.
You survived the last
one you're returning.
That's already big danger.
And look, if you're in the opening
scene, like ooh-wee it's Scream.
Like we, you famously did drew
Barry more in the first one.
Like time for your juicy, big star
kill in like, in your opening scene.
Jeremy: After, after he, Mr.
Magoos his way through number two
and just like, seems to be guilty of
all the crimes throughout the movie
until at the end, he's like, no, I
just wanted to talk to Diane Sawyer.
Ben: No, I dug this, cuz like, I don't
really see Cotton as becoming like, Ooh!
He has to join like the
Jeremy: But I, I, I would've
liked to see him have a bit
more interesting of a death.
Because usually the, when you have like
a sequel and you have the cold open
kill, then there's like something about
that first kill that's inventive or
unusual that ups the stakes somehow.
And I think this one, their intention on
that was to use the voice changer thing,
which I've already said, I don't really
buy the voice changer thing in this.
Ben: It's definitely not as dramatic as
Scream 2 knife going through Omar Epps's
head like, through the bathroom stall.
Jeremy: From that point, we jump forward
just to follow up on Sidney where she's
being filmed at a second location.
In, she's in seclusion somewhere
in the, I guess the Sierra
Nevada mountains, somewhere in
the wildernesses of California.
Emily: Well, is she in the Sierra
or is she in like the Tehachapis?
Jeremy: I don't know.
They, they do not specify.
They don't tell us where-
Ben: She's in-
Jeremy: she goes along with not
telling anybody else where she is.
Ben: Somewhere in California.
But she works for a women's crisis
hotline under an assumed name.
And she's got security and fence alarms
and possibly an electrified fence.
I wasn't sure if that was supposed to
be the case, but it seemed like it.
Emily: I'm not sure.
She was out with her dog and then she
like closed the gate, which is made out
of, I don't know, five pieces of wood.
And then she like put in a code and I'm
like, dude, I can, I can go through that.
Like, why is there a code
for your pedestrian fence?
Jeremy: They don't bring an automobile.
Emily: I, I guess, I mean like,
but it's for the pedestrian gate!
It's not for the fucking-
I don't understand it.
Jeremy: I hope they can't jump.
She learned about Cotton's murder
through the TV and that's basically
all of the interesting things
we're gonna see with her here.
They just have to establish that
she's in the movie, cuz she's
not going to be for a while.
Cuz we're instead gonna go
on to uh, Gale who is, doing
entertainment reporter stuff.
She has clearly broken up with
Dewey and uh, her time on 60
Minutes 2, did not work out.
I don't know why that that's
not called 61 Minutes.
Emily: Or 62 Minutes.
Jeremy: 62 Minutes.
Ben: 60 Minutes 2.
I love that.
Emily: Electric Boogalo o.
Ben: Was 60 Minutes 2
canceled or was Gale fired?
Emily: Maybe she gets canceled.
TJ: I feel like Gale...
that's a subplot of like Scream 5, like
Gale gets canceled, but Scream 6 writers.
Emily: She did have TERF
bangs in this movie.
TJ: so, oh my God.
Jeremy: 'K, so now we have the, the intro
of our first, uh, real new character.
Cause Cotton Weary's
girlfriend is not a character.
She's a butt.
Jeremy: We have detective Mark
Kincaid, who is terminally handsome.
Emily: And Not Ben Stiller.
Ben: He's Patrick Dempsey!
Jeremy: Played by Patrick Dempsey.
Ben: Oh, his partner.
I wanted to be Ben Stiller.
Like they were-
Jeremy: He coulda been.
He could very easily
have been Ben Stiller.
Emily: I'm pretty sure that dude was a
double for Ben Stiller in multiple things.
Ben: Like, there's a lot of
implications that that dude's gonna
die cuz it's supposed to only be
one cop survives in these movies.
Emily: Oh yeah.
Ben: But instead he just
fucks off the movie.
He's like, I gotta go be
a double in Zoolander.
Apparently in like the original draft
of the script, Patrick Dempsey was
not showing up in the final scene.
Both of the cops just disappear halfway
through the movie and never show up again.
And they decided that he needed
to come back in this last scene.
Ben: That was a smart decision.
TJ: Jumping ahead a little bit, but
I wanna ask you all your opinion
on the Sidney Mark Kincaid ship.
Because it's been a big thing ever
since Scream 3 of just obviously the
movie was like, there's something there.
And then he, he pops up at the end.
Like, did you ship it?
Do you think they were dating by the end?
What do you think?
Emily: I don't know.
I think Sid-
Ben: He's handsome and I
want Sidney to be happy.
TJ: Wish I was dating him.
Like I think she definitely hit that.
Jeremy: Detective McHandsome uh,
comes to, talk to Gale about the
murder of Cotton and they go to
this, the set of Scream 3, uh.
Ben: It's not clear cause Kincaid's
like, Hey Gale, I have some questions.
And then Gale's like,
we're working together.
Emily: I swear I will help you
on my Pulitzer Prize, that I
haven't won yet, but I will.
Ben: Fantastic line.
I love that.
That's such a great Gale moment.
Emily: I'm gonna use that when
everyone's like, are you sure?
And I'm like, I swear on all of the
awards that I plan to live in my life.
I'm doubling down on a
lot of things right now.
Jeremy: And we find out that Dewey
is working, not just working as a
technical advisor on Stab 3, as somebody
who is from Woodsboro and experienced
all this stuff for his hand, but is
also banging the woman playing Gale,
who was played by Parker Posey here.
Uh, his name is Jennifer, Jennifer Jolie.
Ben: If I posted about this,
Jennifer Dewey, Gale love triangle
on Reddit r/relationships.
You think they'd figure out
that it's the plot of Scream 3.
TJ: Oh my Gah.
Oh, hold on.
Do you guy- do you really
think they were banging?
Dewey and Jennifer?
Jeremy: He's definitely implied.
TJ: I get it.
I know it was implied.
I'm just like, I don't,
I don't know Dewey to me.
I'm like, he's so pure and good.
I'm like, I mean, I guess he is, he's a
dude, so they probably were banging, but.
Emily: They probably had like
one night where they were both
drinking or like whatever.
And they had watched like Beaches
or something and then he was getting
really, really emotional about it.
And Parker Posey was like, Hey,
Jeremy: This, this character...
TJ: Dewey just missed Gale so much.
Ben: It was like, Jennifer had just
finished her, uh, Gale costume test.
Jeremy: Yeah and it really
seems like Jennifer, is all
about the like method acting.
She really wants to get into, Gale's head.
And it seems like she would
definitely have taken to the
point of, of sleeping with him.
The actor's names are Tyson
Fox, Tom Prinze, Sarah Darling.
Angelina Tyler, Jennifer Jolie.
And then we will have also, the
bodyguard played by Patrick Warburton,
whose name is Steven Stone, who
was apparently at one point that
character was supposed to be played
by Stone Cold Steve Austin, himself.
Uh, and somehow it does not seem that
that, that name went away even though
Stone Cold does not appear in this movie.
Also we have Jenni-, the Jennifer
Jolie's fantastic real name, which
definitely doesn't sound like
the name of a 30 rock character.
Jeremy: The, the actors all have this very
meta conversation about who's gonna die.
And when, and, uh, we find out
that there's all these rewrites on
the Stab 3 script that, you know,
nobody really knows what's going on.
There's three different
versions of the script.
After this next death, we will find out
that the killer is killing people in the
order that they're dying in the movie.
And then that'll be just
fucking tossed out the window.
We won't hear about that ever again.
They make such a big deal over that.
And then it's immediately abandoned.
Emily: I do think that it's funny is
that when they talk about Dewey being
like the technical advisor, and then they
see the, casting of Dewey in the movie.
Easily, the most, charismatic actor
and probably I think they said that
Gale was the killer in the stab.
Jennifer's also freaking out because she's
supposed to be the third character to die.
I guess it's a plot hole or maybe
it's a death fake out, or maybe
Jennifer just didn't read to the
end of the script yet that she got.
Emily: Well, we kept being
Ben: It's true.
She says, that she's supposed to be the
third person to die, but then later when
she is, is being killed, she says, but I'm
supposed to be the killer in the movie.
TJ: And it's just like, which version?
TJ: I was digging around on the
Scream Wikipedia page, like the
Scream, the whole Wikipedia site.
I forget what rabbit hole I was
down, but I was looking at the
Gale Weathers in-universe books.
And I found out that supposedly
somewhere, it was confirmed that
they canceled the entire Stab
3 that we're watching get made
that never happens in universe.
But Gale writes a book on what
happened in Scream 3, and then they
adapt that and make that into Stab 3.
So the movie that we are watching get
filmed, never gets released in-universe.
TJ: Which, uh, just was wild.
I mean, we'll, we'll see.
Dewey's actor talking about that
later, just before he bites it.
He's ripping up the script and talking
about how it's never getting made.
The whole thing's been canceled.
Ben: So you're telling me that the
in universe version of Stab 3 is
even more goddamn meta than Scream 3.
Emily: Oh yeah.
That's what I, that's what I got from it.
Ben: So you're telling me that's a
movie within a movie within a movie.
Jeremy: Now, do Jay and Silent
Bob show up in that though?
Ben: Again, if it- in the reveal,
if fucking like Ghostface's mask
comes off and it's fucking Carrie
Fisher and then Jay and silent
Bob show up with bloody knives.
How amazing would that have been?
Emily: I mean, Might as well
have been at this point.
Jeremy: Maybe in Stab 3 it's
Bluntman and Chronic that show up.
Ben: Like, I would've lost my, how
amaz- You wouldn't- Let's be honest.
If Carrie Fisher had been revealed to
have been Ghostface, we wouldn't have even
given a fuck about like the motivation.
We would've just been so happy to see
Carrie Fisher be a crazy killer for the
next, like last 15 minutes of the movie.
TJ: Like would've eaten that up.
Jeremy: I loved it.
Apparently at one point, that part
was also offered to a couple of other
people, including Jamie Lee Curtis,
you know, for obvious reasons was
their original choice for that part.
Ben: Interestingly though,
was still the Star Wars joke.
TJ: I couldn't tell if you
were serious about that!
Emily: I don't know.
Here's really good at like
leading me on it's pretty great.
Ben: I'm sorry.
Emily: No, it's okay.
This is good dynamic.
This is good comedy.
TJ: Yeah, she was their second choice.
They're like, well, we were gonna
make this Princess Leia joke and
we thought, I don't know, maybe
Jamie Lee Curtis would do it.
Well, then she said no, so we're like,
well, what if we got actual Princess Leia?
So we went with that instead.
Emily: I mean, stranger
things have happened.
Jeremy: Okay, so let's move from
this interesting scene into this not
interesting scene, which is Sidney
having a nightmare about her dead
mother, because Sidney knows what's
going on in the rest of the plot
somehow, that this is all about her mom.
She imagines that a Ghostface breaks
into her house and tries to kill her.
And none of that actually happens.
And we go back to the film.
Ben: Sidney Prescott B-Roll footage.
It just exists to be like, yep,
Sidney's still in the movie.
We don't have much of her, but we're
gonna try to suss it out for you.
Emily: That's the weird thing is that
never before has Scream gotten into like
dream sequences and that kind of thing.
Ben, do you wanna tell, tell your
theory and I'll tell my theory.
Ben: Well, I don't have a theory.
I just have why the dream sequence
is a major failing of this movie.
Ben: Because it comes immediately
after the Jay and Silent Bob cameo.
So it's trying to shock
us with the dead mom.
And I'm like no, movie!
I'm still thinking about
Jay and Silent Bob.
Ben: I'm gonna need at least 10
minutes before I can take in any
other detail about this movie.
You just showed me Jay and Silent
Bob, you think you're fucking
shocking me with dead mom.
Jeremy: You didn't know to expect the
Miramax Cinematic Universe at this point,
Emily: I'm still trying to
process the Jay and Silent Bob.
But this whole thing with the mom
and the dream sequences is, they had
already established, this was a movie
and this was in Hollywood and blah blah.
So I had this idea and maybe this was in
one of the original scripts or one of the
original ideas, that they were going for
this whole thing where everybody was, or
at least multiple people were in on it.
And it was a bunch of killers who are
trying to create a meta movie around Sid.
And so there were people because
there are special effects people- they
even show and introduce the special
effects guy- that are all about like
makeup and, monster masks and things.
So like, if this movie has established
that we can have a magical voice changing
thing, then of course the makeup is
good enough that they can have dead mom
walking around and it's actually like
her and not an actual dream sequence.
So that's what I thought.
I thought it was like a whole production.
TJ: That would've been
way too well thought out.
Ben: Heavily made up Emily
Mortimer would've been great.
Like if it was Emily Mortimer or
anybody like just hired, you know?
Ben: As much of the whole movie is
movie within movie, I almost kind of
wish they'd leaned even harder on it.
Meanwhile, Sarah, who is the ditzy
blonde character who is, you know,
supposed to die second is called to
the trailer by the director to go
over some lines in some scenes.
She has some questions.
She's upset that her character
dies in the second scene.
She's in, as I said, this is the
second scene that character is in.
There's a call on the office
phone, which she answers.
And, at first it seems to be the director
and then it turns out that it's Ghostface.
And then she tries to hide in the trailer.
And then Ghostface is already in one of
the Ghostface costumes in the trailer
and, chase her down and kills her.
Ben: This movie, we
established is very ridiculous.
If you stop and think about
it, knowing who the killer is.
Jeremy: And he was clearly
calling her on his cell phone
from inside the Ghostface costume.
He had to clone his own cell phone.
Ben: I mean, well, it's so weird.
Emily: Yeah, but the.
Ben: He thought ahead.
He had metal detectors
and bulletproof vests.
Emily: That's where his budget went.
But the other thing that I think
is important about the scene is
the, script notes that Sarah has.
She's, basically pointing out all these
plot holes much like the original film.
Like in, in the original film, when
they talk about like, okay, this
big breasted woman goes upstairs
instead of downstairs, which I
think someone ran upstairs instead
of downstairs in this movie as well.
Jeremy: Sidney does.
In the fake house, she runs
upstairs to get away from Ghostface.
TJ: In her defense, she knew the layout
of her room and knew she could hide
with the door up against the door.
Ben: And then she saw the Creed
poster and she didn't know
what the fuck was going on.
Well then she's like, this is a bad dream.
This, this is not my beautiful house
Ben: She got- She saw Creed
and then she was like Ah!
Emily: Ha ha.
P T S Creed
Ben: Look, I'm not trying
to make light of PTSD.
I know the damage, the band
Creed has done and it's no joke.
Jeremy: Sarah is talking to Roman,
not Roman she is also complaining in
that scene about how she enters from
the, uh, bathroom and is naked for no
reason, which is true of the girlfriend
in the first scene in this movie.
Ben: She also complains about being
a 35 year old playing a 21 year old.
Even though Jenny McCarthy was 27.
That joke's just all over the place.
Jeremy: Right in the middle there.
Emily: Well, and it's weird because I
remember people like the, the audience
for scream, the teens that were
watching Scream were like, oh, all
these 35 year olds playing us, blah.
But now like looking at it as a 39 year
old, I'm like, yes, absolutely do not cast
anybody under age because, as established
by this film and one of the plot points in
it is that Hollywood is predatory as fuck.
I mean, it's still predatory against
35 year olds, so there's that.
But, anyway, I just thought
that was interesting how
those, concerns have flipped.
Uh, so we, we jump forward, uh,
as frequently happens in this
movie and, uh, Dale, uh, Dewey and
Gale are meeting for breakfast.
Dale, weird ship name.
They're talking about the murders, and
how they were dating last time we saw
them in the movies and they're not now,
and how that's never gonna work out.
And we learned that Dewey has realized
that whoever is this killer is probably
somebody that's working on Stab 3,
because somebody was trying to get
information on Sidney previously.
and he managed to head them off
and, and steal all the information
from, you know, the Woodsboro police
department before they got to it.
Ben: I feel like this exposition could
have been delivered in a more exciting
way, but they had to work around Courteney
Cox and David Arquettes brunch schedule.
Jeremy: Also, This scene.
I feel like flies in the face of
Dewey's characterization in the
rest of the movie, which is, is he's
extremely competent in this scene.
And the rest of the movie, he is fucking
Dudley Do-Right levels of just goofy.
He's so dumb in this.
Emily: Like, I feel like there's
a little bit of a consistency of
his cha- because he actually is.
Jeremy: Uh, well physical
level of competency.
Ben: The new goofier tone just
lends itself to like a new
level of slapstick for Dewey.
Like, the scene where he takes
the knife handle to the face and
then just tumbles down the stairs.
Emily: That was fucking amazing.
Ben: That was like hilarious.
Emily: That, that's why I was
like, okay, movie you're okay.
Ben: Yeah, that's Scream 3 at its best.
Like when it's being the right levels
of just a goofy or take on scream.
there were levels that it
was basically scary movie.
Like it was such a self-parody.
Ben: You know, it's a less intense
and less gory Scream because the worst
that happens to Dewey in this movie is
that he gets like punched in the mouth.
A like, lightly slashed.
That's a fucking walk in
the park in this franchise.
He didn't get almost killed again.
TJ: Which straight is
basically gone in this one.
Ben: It's still there.
It's there a little bit.
Jeremy: He is not- It is not on the
extreme levels that we noted in Scream 2.
He's got a whole, a whole hitch
in his giddy up in Scream 2.
Ben: This movie's got shit
going on to distract you.
It doesn't need David Arquette's
crazy-ass limp-acting like on top of it.
They're like too campy, too much camp.
Emily: But the bodyguard
does call him Dewdrop.
Which I think is fucking adorable.
Ben: His last words before dying is
just like tragically looking at Dewey's-
into Dewey's eyes, just going, Dewdrop.
And then he just drops dead.
Emily: I didn't even hear that.
I was just, I was so distracted.
Jeremy: This is where we introduce
the bodyguard, Steven Stone,
played by the amazing Patrick Wa-
Ben: Not the Pokemon champion.
Jeremy: No, not the Pokémon champion.
Not the world wrestling Federation
champion, but a different Steven
Stone, who, uh, everything is
delivered as Patrick Warburton, as
Patrick Warburton is known to do.
He's, he's basically the
tick, but as a douche bag.
Ben: So just imagine what that
is, knowing Patrick Warburton.
And there you go.
You nailed it.
Ben: You did it listener.
Emily: He did say something
really fucked up about,
Ben: fucked up.
So this movie is pretty big on
like rules, I think in terms
of like when the people die.
and I think it's, especially with
Amelia, uh, no Angelina, Sidney's actor,
and Steven Stone in that he makes fun
of Dewey for not having been able to
save his sister in the first Scream
and then immediately gets attacked.
Like even Ghostface was
like, whoa, dude, not cool.
Jeremy: I wasn't planning on killing you.
But that was real fucking douchey.
Ben: Like Ghostface attacks
him immediately after.
Ghostface almost attacks
him on Dewey's behalf.
like fucking Roman being in
there and being like, whoa, shit.
That was fucked up.
Gotta accelerate this.
Ben: I could just so easy see Roman
being like Jesus, I know I'm a, I'm
a killer, but I'm not an asshole.
Emily: I mean, he is an asshole, but-
Ben: He is an asshole.
Cause he's- he fucking
mows right over Sarah.
And she's like, you know, this is
really misogynist and he's like Uhhuh.
Let's review the lines.
Can you review-
Ben: Which at first you're
like, ah, it's Ghostface.
But no, it's just him being a misogynist.
It is him as Ghostface
as him in that scene.
Emily: As meta as the rest of the movie.
At this point, Ghostface is
leaving pictures of young Maureen
Prescott at all the kills.
It's not about, killing people in the
order that they die in the movie anymore.
It's now about pictures
of Maureen Prescott.
The order that they're killed in the
will never be brought up ever again.
Jeremy: And, Ghostface calls Sidney
on her, uh, on her home phone.
I don't think we ever get a follow up on
exactly how he figured this stuff out.
And I, I don't think that we learn
how, the actual like, character
that turns out to be the, the killer
would've gotten this information.
it just does.
And so she decides to, come to
Hollywood and join in on the fun.
She's gonna come be part of this
movie instead of being part of her own
independent movie about a woman that lives
in the country and does trauma support.
Ben: The swelling music that plays
when Sidney reunites with like the
characters, uh, that is some crazy level.
Just like emotional schmaltz.
Jeremy: There's a lot of orchestration in
this movie for how campy this movie is.
Because that comes back, like
the very dramatic music is there.
And then we also get the
return of, Dewey's like theme.
His like, cowboy theme pops back up
later on, they have like everything
from the Western trumpets to the
sounds of spurs and stuff in the music.
Ben: He's the heroic lawman.
Steven Stone is extra douchey and makes,
like we said, makes fun of Dewey for,
uh, letting his sister get killed.
And then is immediately, stabbed and
falls dead in front of everybody else.
They're freaking out when the power
goes out and then, then the thing
starts coming in through the fax.
I do wanna say again, phone lines
don't need additional electricity,
but a fax machine does a fax machine-
Emily: Fax machines do.
Jeremy: -need to be plugged in
Emily: I was being ridiculous before.
Ben: I do love the idea of Ghostface
communicating through a fax.
I love Dewey being smart enough to now on
his third time around of being like saying
if he is waiting for us outside, he wants
us to say inside, let's get the fuck out.
And them having to drag Parker Posey
away who's just dying with anticipation
to know what the last fax is.
Ben: Like she's acting like it's
like a show she's invested and she
needs to watch the last episode.
Emily: Maybe she just wanted to
really keep that fax machine because
it was magically able to receive
faxes, like all the powers out.
TJ: The thing that I have the hardest
part buying in this scene is like,
when he is like, oh, I smelled
the gas and it's on the paper.
It's like, how did the killer know that
in that moment this would happen or be
said, like, this was some like Jigsaw
level thinking ahead of time stuff.
Jeremy: It's also another place
where the version of the movie we
have doesn't make any sense because,
Emily Mortimer's character disappears
right here and reappears later.
Theoretically is the one who's shutting
off the pilot light or whatever,
so that the gas builds up because
the other Ghostface isn't around
at this point and will show up down
at the bottom of the hill later.
So like this only makes
sense if she did it.
But then since they've gotten rid
of that part of the plot, it's
again, level of like the-
Ben: Doesn't make any sense.
Jeremy: -Killer getting
from one place to another.
Ben: It only makes sense if you know, it's
going to be Tom in the house doing it.
You see him smoking in all his scenes.
You can surmise that he has a lighter
if it's dark, but you have to know
that in a group of people running
out, he's gonna be the one that's
like, yes, I will read the fax.
TJ: Or no one has a flashlight.
Ben: What if Roman just grabbed
it, then run outside and then like
flicked on his lighter to read it.
Emily: Probably there were
contingencies, like he had a match.
There was some sort of, there was a plan.
Ben: So much bullshit is just being pulled
out of a magic hat that like probably.
I mean my, my disbelief is suspended,
uh, by this film already just
because of how ridiculous it is.
Ben: And again, this is a really fun
movie, but one of the big joys of 1 and
2 is after you learn the reveal, then
having a rewatch where you go like,
oh, this is where these characters
were when all this was going on.
This is like the clues they dropped
letting us know that this was them
and here it just doesn't work.
Like there's just no consistency or logic
or sense you can make of it because just
the script got written so hastily and then
was just changed so much, like it's Looney
Tune logic for Ghostface to do everything
that Ghostface does in this movie.
As we talked about part of what we love
about Ghostface, especially in the first
two movies is that he is not supernatural.
He is a human who can be stabbed
and knocked over and beat up
and is frequently beat up.
And all the stuff he does that
seems supernatural in the movies
can be explained by the existence
of, you know, multiple killers.
Um, mm-hmm that have staged this, which
yeah, it doesn't doesn't make any sense
in this movie because they don't have
multiple killers in this movie because
they've halfway taken out that plot line.
At this point this may be my favorite
Ghostface escape too, because like they
all end up at the bottom of the hill,
except for Emily Mortimer's character.
And then Ghostface shows up and
tries to kill Gale and Dewey
shows up and shoots Ghostface.
Ghostface rolls under
the van and disappears.
Jeremy: Ghostface leaves behind a note.
And just, I, I assume that there's like
a stump of wood underneath there cuz
he just ninja his way out of there.
Just straight up disappeared.
Ben: Like this movie should have gone
so much harder with this Ghostface
being some kind of unstoppable
supernatural seeming thing.
And then once we learned its Roman,
the director who was in charge of this
film, we then get reveals on like the
movie special effects trickery that went
into this supposedly impossible things
Ghostface was doing during the film.
Ben: And I don't feel like the
movie ever really does that.
That's why I was, banking on that being
the reveal is that this was a production,
but then we never really touch on that.
Jeremy: Yeah, yeah.
The idea is there, it's
just not filled out.
It's like as meta as this movie is,
I wi- I wish it had gone even harder.
Emily: Well, it's indecisive about
how much it wants to be meta at times.
Those are the, the main
failing points of the film.
You know, that's something that other
Scream movies have dealt with, but
the stuff that's there is ridiculous
enough that it just leaves me to
forgive the, um, the other weak points,
just because it's set up an imperfect
movie that is a disaster in filming.
That makes no sense.
Ben: Yeah, like that's
the movie at its best.
Like when it's being campy
and cheesy it's good.
When Act III is in this horror movie,
like Maven producers, literal horror
movie mansion, like that's good.
Like, why is this a horror movie ending?
Cuz you're in a literal house
of the horror movie, dude.
TJ: They're like Harvey Weinstein,
can we borrow your house?
Shoot this finale?
Emily: Is that- that's
not his house is it?
TJ: I don't think so.
Cause I've, I'm sure I've seen
that shit on Zillow gone wild.
TJ: Oh God.
I have to steal a, a Parker Posey
moment from you, uh, in this
scene when, Gale punches her and
she's like, my lawyer liked that.
That's one of my favorite lines.
Every line delivery Parker
Posey has is incredible.
She is at an "11" this whole film.
I love her in Scream 3.
Jeremy: I love that this continues a trend
where Gale gets punched in each movie.
She gets punched in the first movie.
She gets punched to the second movie and
then Gale punches fake Gale in this movie.
TJ: And someone mentioned
this being like a Gail-Dewey.
Film with them as the protagonists,
like, take that in mind.
Like Gale getting the Sidney
moment of punching Gale in the
face is like, I don't know.
It just makes so much
sense in this scenario.
Ben: Ah, oh, I do love it.
It's so meta.
Jeremy: I love the interplay between
the two of them that kind of starts
here and will follow the two Gales
throughout the rest of the movie of like
Gale being like, no, we have to do this.
And Parker Posey going,
well, my Gale would do this.
Ben: Their dynamic.
Like I c- I could not get
enough of the Jennifer-Gale duo.
Then the best part for like easily.
Jeremy: So we have Kincaid demanding
to know where Sidney is and then
Sidney just showing up out of the blue.
I think the only time Sidney will
leave the police station for the
rest of the movie is she goes to the
set and stumbles upon, uh, Martha
Meeks, Randy's little sister,
Ben: The cameo delivery system.
Was there to deliver a VHS
of Randy telling them what
to expect in the trilogy.
Anybody can die.
And the past is malleable.
It's going to be changed in some way.
Things are gonna not be
what we thought they were.
Emily: But I was wondering is he refers
to Return of the Jedi and like the
big reveal and the Return of the Jedi.
What was the big reveal
in the Return of the Jedi?
Jeremy: Leia was Luke's sister.
Ben: Okay, well, let's be, when you,
when you think about the big twist
reveal in the original trilogy of
star wars, this just leads me to
believe that Randy kind of sucks.
Jeremy: I mean.
Jeremy: I think the first two
movies make that pretty clear.
Jeremy: This is maybe the ideal amount
of Jamie Kennedy to have in a movie.
Emily: Still can't get over
how they're like, oh, she's
Randy's sister can't you tell.
Emily: That's fucked up.
They're they're not.
This is my favorite Randy appearance.
TJ: It blows my mind.
How much people online,
like old school Scream fans.
They're like, Randy was me.
Like, I love Randy!
I'm like no one cares-
Ben: Then fucking work on yourself then.
Emily: Oh my God.
TJ: Oh my God.
Ben: Reflect on that!
TJ: And every random character archetype
going forward is a hundred percent gayer.
And I'm here for that.
Emily: But I do wanna say during
this whole explanation about the
rules of the trilogy and how that
works, they never say, oh yeah and
the third one is always like a real
cheap cash grab with cameos in it.
And that would've been perfect.
Ben: So yeah, nothing will ever
top that level of accidental.
Self-awareness like X-Men: Apocalypse
having a line where they walk out
of return the Jedi and go like the
third one's always the worst one.
It's like really X-Men: Apocalypse?
You wanna do this?
Jeremy: Martha Meeks is gone.
We start putting together this stuff
about Maureen Prescott because the
publicity still, they have done of
Jennifer as, Gale has the same background
in it from the studio a lot as one of
the pictures that they they're seeing
of Maureen, Maureen, and Gale and fake
Gale, Jennifer, go to investigate.
This is where they meet Carrie Fisher
playing not Carrie Fisher, but a woman
who was also trying out for the part
of Princess Leia, who didn't sleep with
George Lucas, who didn't get the part.
Carrie Fisher is wry and brilliant
as always even if far too briefly.
We get a lot of, background about
Maureen Prescott having had a different
name that she went under as an actress.
And she was actually in several small
horror movies that were all, under
the same producer who is currently
producing Stab 3, um, Milton.
Ben: We've got ourselves a societal theme.
Y'all Get ready for abuse
in Hollywood, in a movie.
Jeremy: Uh, meanwhile Sidney is in
the bathroom, the same bathroom that
she was in and Scream one weirdly.
But on the Hollywood lot.
Ben: Did they re-create the bathroom?
Is this a real bathroom?
Wait, is this a real working toilet or
did Sidney just poop in a prop toilet?
Emily: Good question!
Ben: Cause that door leads nowhere.
TJ: Maybe she just didn't care.
Emily: Or maybe she just
wanted to shit on the set.
Jeremy: I could absolutely
see Sidney be like...
Sidney's been through a lot.
She can shit, wherever she wants.
Ben: Like these people are making
millions exploiting the most
traumatic, horrific events of her life.
Sidney has every justification
of just being, fuck everyone ever
involved with this franchise.
Emily: I really want more "Done Sidney".
Jeremy: I love Sidney's reaction
here because she sees the like
telltale black boots, under the door.
And instead of like trying to peek under
or trying to figure out what's going
on, she full on kicks the door open,
scares the shit outta poor Angelina
who's in there, grabbed a mask that
she is, I guess, stealing from the,
because now Stab 3 is not getting made.
So she's never gonna have another
chance like this again and she wants
some sort of memorabilia to have.
It is clearly a, a reference to the fact
that she's supposed to be the killer
later on in this movie and you know,
was getting ready to pop at it her.
But that's again, cut.
So this is then just a scene of
a, a very sad girl who still, uh,
Ben: But again, like
the scene where she's.
Connecting to Sidney and talking
about what, like being it's like,
there's something so creepy and
unnerving about Angelina in the scene.
And it's like-
Like, this is why she
should have been the killer.
It's a good scene.
I'm like, and I feel bad for her too.
Like she's creepy, but i f you're like,
okay, the movie's trying to make me
think everyone could be the killer.
I was like, all right, I'm
here for you, Angelina.
And at this point, Sidney wanders into the
set of her old house and is exploring the
fake mock up version of her house where
she now likes Creed instead of Indigo
Girls or whatever it was in the first one.
Emily: I think it was Indigo Girls,
cuz I kept thinking Ani DiFranco, but
I don't think it was that level first.
Ben: That's a wild change.
Indigo Girls to Creed still.
Emily: That's fucked up.
That's fucked up.
I'd be like, this is revisionist and
I'm gonna shit on this set as well.
Jeremy: Yeah, so she gets, uh, attacked
by Ghostface in her house and at one
point is running away and discovers that
the entire house is not actually there.
At one point she almost falls off of
the sound stage and then uses that
to her advantage hides and lets the
you know, Ghostface, run through the
half open door and then pulls him
off, throws him on the lower floor.
Ghostface is still getting the
better of her until you know, she's
screaming and doing everybody run in
and there's no sign of anybody there.
this is also the first scene
where Ghostface is hiding
under, a police blanket.
That's supposed to be covering her
dead mom in this scene I guess.
it gets up and walks around
and, and scares her that way.
It doesn't make a lot of sense now.
Ben: This Creed poster is maybe
supposed to be foreshadowing cuz
Roman-Ghostface put Creed on while
he killed Cotton and his girlfriend.
It's like, oh shit.
We know Ghostface likes creed.
It's the Creed fandom.
That's what gives Ghostface away.
Emily: I am going to write an
essay About this movie because of
all the Cr- all this crazy Shit.
TJ: I have to say I going back to
Emily's idea of like actors trying to
make Sidney think this is all happening.
Like the mother between sequences.
I think that's such a good idea.
That was like a missed opportunity.
Especially with this scene.
Emily: For sure.
TJ: I love this scene with her on the
set, but the mother part is the one
part that doesn't really work for me.
I just love the idea of if it's gonna
be this level of movie and movie meta, I
want them to fully explore everything that
comes with your villains being filmmakers.
I mean the- this idea is so good.
Even in the beginning, in the first
movie fucking Skeet Ulrich is talking
about how he's using corn syrup or
cornstarch or whatever, not corn syrup.
What they use for pig's blood and
carry like it was this homage.
So like this felt, that's why this movie
is, so it just clicks for me because it is
not just an homage to filmmaking, but it's
also a critique on Hollywood bullshit.
The first movie was like, horror movies.
Am I right?
And The next movie was like
movies again, I guess, am I right?
And then this one is like,
Hollywood, am I right?
From second one where they're like
panning in over the Hollywood sign and
they're like, Hollywood, it's fucked up.
And then, they go as far to talk
about the, abuse that people deal
with and they talk about misogyny
and all this kind of stuff.
So you have everything here to
be a really great commentary.
It's just not quite there.
Uh, Gale and Jennifer go to confront
Milton, Milton admits the about this stuff
that went on with Maureen at his parties.
and puts the blame back on Maureen.
Says like, oh, she didn't nothing
happened to her that she didn't invite.
Ben: His excuse literally
it was the seventies.
uh, we do get a pretty, another wonderful
Parker Posey moment of her just like
pulling out of her ass, just like this
whole theory of Milton being the killer.
And then Gale gets the wonderful line.
Easy there, "Geraldo."
TJ: She goes: You're obsessed with her.
And you're obsessed with her daughter.
I love that's such a good one.
Ben: Obsessed with her daughter.
Like she is so intense.
Parker Posey is the gift that just
keeps on giving in this movie.
TJ: She deserved to live.
I, I hope that she did.
Ben: I'm hoping that Scream 6 is like Stu
is back and somehow Parker Posey back too
and now they're both Ghostface, just some
Lillard and Posey crazy comedy murder.
TJ: I was telling Ben, I think
yesterday, like if they ever do a final
Scream movie, bring back the voice
changer and just have every person who
ever played Ghostface cameo and like
haunt all the victims who survived.
And I would be down for Parker
Posey to come back and have
lived and get harassed once more.
Ben: I would love that.
Or even just like the voice changer
used to play voices of all of the,
like people that Sidney couldn't save
and then its very dramatic and sad.
And then you hear Parker Poseys voice.
And for a moment it's like, man, this is
a very silly moment in this intense scene.
if it were me, I feel like I would
bring Parker Posey back as somebody
who has become like a, a hardcore,
investigative detective type.
She's just embraced this and kept going.
Okay if they ever kill off Gale
Weathers, they just have Jennifer
come back in the sequel and just
she'll fill the Gale Weathers role.
Ben: And importantly insists
that everyone calls her Gale.
Oh God at us.
It's like, they're not good,
but fucking, I don't know.
Tell us what you think?
TJ: We can collab into the
scream, averse, combine ideas
Emily: Into the
Scream-a-verse: No W ay home,
Ben: No Stab Home.
Is that anything?
I don't think that's
No Scream home.
Emily: No way to scream.
Ben: We're just putting word- we're
just put in words, in other words!
That's how they- back to thee recap.
So Sidney ended up back at the
police station with Kincaid, uh,
where she has decided that she
lives for the rest of the movie.
Um, she's just going to sit there.
Uh, she's gonna have an intense dialogue
with Kincaid where they talk about,
horror movies and they both had bad lives.
And Kincaid says his favorite
horror movie is his own life.
Which if somebody said that to me in
real life, I would laugh in their face.
it's a lot, and Kincaid leaves to
go do, Kincaid stuff and Sidney
just stays there while Gale and
Dewey have, uh, a fun adventure.
They get a call from Sidney calling them
to the mansion because they need them to
be at the mansion for the final scene.
And of course it's not Sidney,
it's Voice Changer McGee.
They all show up at Roman's
birthday party at, the mansion.
Where the other actors are still there.
The ones who have survived to this
point, they just like, hang out.
Ben: I'm amazed the other actors are
there just to celebrate Roman's birthday.
Like the movie has been canceled.
People are dying.
If I'm those actors, I'm fucking
all the way outta town for a while.
Emily: Also Roman's a director and he
got this fucking fancy ass house and only
four people are at his birthday party?
The second Sidney shows up and it's
not like a bunch of people I'd be like,
yeah, this is not, this is fucked.
Like, this is not.
Ben: The plot of this movie
hinges on us going: yeah.
I believe Roman doesn't have any
friends aside from the people he pays.
Jeremy: I mean, and they're at the
house is Milton's who I guess we're
gonna find out shortly is Roman's dad.
It's never really discussed
further in this movie.
he could be Roman's dad guess any
number of guys from this party could
theoretically, genetically be Roman's dad.
That is not really covered whether, uh,
I guess Milton was one of the people
who, sexually abused Sidney's mother.
Ben: So I'm going to say that it is,
Milton until we learn that it's not.
And then Roman's real, dad comes
back as the villain of Scream 7.
Emily: And it's also Lance Henriksen,
but it's the Lance Henriksen that didn't
sleep with the director of near dark.
And it's like the Not Lance Henriksen.
My brain just stopped working
in the middle of this theory.
I speaking of which though I have to ask.
Why the fuck does John Milton's
office have a diving board?
TJ: I don't know.
His whole house is full of movie props.
Ben: John Milton said I wanted
diving board on my office.
A contractor fucking sighed,
hung his head and then added
another zero to the invoice.
Emily: I mean, I would,
but seriously though, like
he's like a big Hollywood guy and he
has a diving board off of his I don't
know, sixth, seventh story office.
That's like got a panoramic view of Lala.
Ben: Like whose idea was that?
Who was like, Hey, you know what really
communicates Hollywood sleeves and
power a diving boy outside your office.
Emily: Sidney is at the police station
and everyone else is going to this very
sad party, this very sad party at this
very cool house, full of cool props and
lights that need their ballasts replaced.
Jeremy: Milton's house, by the way,
is the Paramore estate, also known
as the Canfield-Moreno E state, which
is in Silver Lake, and is th e that
they used as part of Halloween H2O.
and also where Rose McGowen was married.
Jeremy: I don't know.
Jeremy: This version just says
where Rose McGowen had her wedding.
So yeah, it is a real
place on the outside.
Presumably the inside is
what's actually in the house.
Dewey and Gale show up and
we start just having a series
of, uh, Looney Tunes, murders.
Roman seems to die while walking
around in the basement by himself.
He will be found in a coffin.
Very close to Jennifer,
hiding behind a curtain.
Gale will check his pulse
and say that he is dead.
And then he will show back
up as the killer later.
Nobody needed to feel his pulse and
say that he was dead in this scene.
They could have just been
like, ah, and run away.
Ben: The movie creates
a hole for no reason.
Like scene is the same.
And we're like, oh, he faked a
knife and blood with movie magic.
But you can't just fake a no pulse.
TJ: I always just assumed
that was like a dummy.
So now like, could she not tell?
Ben: I would've been good with that,
but I needed, like I needed just one
line explaining it, which there isn't.
TJ: And it's like, why, why
go out of your way to do this?
And to me it really hurts the who
done it because yeah, you know,
there's always room for like Billy
Loomis being dead in the first
faking his death in the first one.
And then coming out like that
works, that fit his character.
It still fit within the realm
of what was possible based
on what was presented to us.
This felt like the movie explicitly
telling us, we are telling you
from a truthful unbiased source,
there is objective confirmation.
He is dead.
So when Roman is revealed as the killer,
I don't feel like whoa, I was tricked
or this movie did a good job with it.
I don't feel like I was tricked.
I feel like I was lied to.
Ben: And those are different feelings.
That's, that's not the who done it
trick that's the, uh, Oh, you fucked up
Well, like what was the point
of him faking his death?
Like he could have just disappeared
and then we'd be like, oh, where is he?
It was just for the audience
to trick us and lie to us.
And it's like, it
doesn't work then for me.
Ben: I think it all could have worked
if it's like, if there had been more
of like everything Billy Loomis did,
I'm going to do bigger and better.
What he did with a fucking camcorder
and allowance money I'm going to do with
fucking Hollywood equipment and budgets.
I forgot Billy also faked his death.
So now I can't complain
about it if Billy did it.
Ben: Well, no, but again, it's like,
all we saw was Billy with a fake knife
in him and blood everywhere where he
then expl- show, takes the knife out,
showing it's a prop and explicitly
is like, look how I made this prop.
The movie explains why what
we saw wasn't what we saw.
Scream 3 does not explain why,
what we saw, wasn't what we saw.
And that makes all the difference in
the world from a whodunit perspective.
Jeremy: And that's gonna get even worse
here because Gale and Jennifer run
into Angelina, Angelina freaks out.
She tells them that she banged
Milton to get the part, or I guess,
banged Roman to get the part.
Ben: No, she banged Milton.
Emily: She banged Milton.
She banged Milton.
And Jennifer banged Roman.
Ben: You revealed she had sex
in the slasher movie, so y'all
know what's gotta happen next.
Jeremy: Well, she gets killed in a
way that looks super, like it's not
real and that she's not actually dead.
And at this point I had thought
she was the killer anyway.
So I was like, well, that's obviously
like a setup, reading back over stuff and
finding out that, that was the plan at one
point is for her to be one of the killers.
I was like, oh good.
I'm not just stupid.
They just did this poorly.
So it will turn out that this super
fake looking death is in fact a death.
Nobody finds her body.
Nobody finds her decapitated
So like, I don't know, they could throw
a twist in a future movie that like
she did fake her death and disappeared
and, you know, she can show back up.
But, uh, there's nothing in the end
of this movie that would imply that.
TJ: She gets pulled like off camera.
Jeremy: And then it cuts to a different
angle where we're looking down the
stairs and she gets pulled like off
the bottom of the stairs and screen.
Emily: And she's looking up open-eyed and
looking so much, like she's pretending
to be dead with like a shock face.
so she's dead, I guess.
Ghostface attacks Dewey.
Tyson tries to save him.
Tyson gets stabbed and then gets
the rug pulled out from under him
and lands on his neck and then gets
thrown out a window onto the pavement.
Ben: Tyson landing on
his neck is so brutal.
Like Tyson has the most brutal death.
Like we see him stabbed in the stomach.
We see him land on his neck.
We see him shoved through glass.
We see him thrown off a balcony.
Like it's easily the most memorable
and classic feeling Scream death.
Jeremy: So he's the only
character of color in this movie.
It's fucked up.
Emily: That's why I feel
like it's gratuitous.
It's a good horror movie
death, but yeah, it's fucked up.
Ben: What the fuck?
What the fuck movie?
Not even fucking Roman gets killed
like five times and then he still gets
back up until he is shot in the head
and we see the bullet go through and
have like a fucking diagram of where
the bullet goes in and comes out and
like, they basically do the autopsy
right there and they're like, yep, dead.
Ben: But we always gotta
do for a Ghostface.
Jeremy: This death of Tyson reminds
me a lot of the first Jurassic world.
There's like the one poor woman
who's supposed to be minding
the children who for some reason
has an incredibly graphic death.
Ben: It it's Lena Luthor
from Supergirl, isn't it?
And she just has like-
Jeremy: I think so.
Ben: And isn't it that like, she's
just a nice character who doesn't
do anything wrong and it's still
just the most gratuitous death.
She's, she's exasperated because
she's assigned to, take care of
the kids and that's not her job
she's supposed to be working.
Ben: That makes sense.
Jeremy: And is just sort of
running around, trying to
follow them the whole time.
And then dies incredibly horribly.
Ben: For the fatal flaw of not
being accepting of workplace sexism.
Ben: Maybe I shouldn't
watch Jurassic World.
TJ: I also haven't seen it.
Ben: I've made it this
far not having seen it.
Emily: There's a really
compelling ship in that film.
Ben: Is it between Chris
Pratt and a dinosaur?
TJ: Yes, I was gonna
say, is it a dinosaur.
Jeremy: Chris Pratt and a blue dinosaur.
Jeremy: Yeah, his blue
verac- velociraptor love.
I'll check it out.
Jeremy: So, Tyson is dead, very dead.
Emily: The most dead.
Ghostface chases Jennifer around.
And, she ends up on the wrong
side of, uh, one way mirror.
And this time-
Ben: It's John Milton's
like bedroom pervert mirror.
She dies behind the pervert mirror.
I don't mean to kink shame, but
in the case of the Weinstein
esque figure, I'm gonna go there.
Emily: Oh yeah, no, that's, like
with all of the context that we
have, that's fucked up as fuck.
Like also, because there's all
these secret passages and stuff.
So nobody really knows that
that's going on, assumingly.
Ben: Yeah, no.
That looks like it's tailor-made for
some secret fucked up voyeur shit.
or like blackmailing people, which mm-hmm.
Ben: Two birds one stone!
Ben: Sorry for that terrible jingle.
Emily: No, it was good.
Ben: I will always
apologize for my singing.
It's not good.
Emily: I mean, listen, just
because things are not good doesn't
mean that they're not great.
TJ: Like Scream 3.
TJ: So in this moment, do you think
Jennifer is killed by Ghostface?
Or does Dewey shoot her or both?
Emily: Killed by Ghostface.
Jeremy: I was really expecting
there to be something about that.
But she sort of falls through the mirror
and they don't really even bother to
confirm that she's dead at this point.
They just kind of leave her
body there and continue on.
I just wanna point out at this point
with the mirrors, that the whole glass
situation from the previous movie,
they've actually figured that out.
Like, oh, you shoot the glass.
And then also the fact that the mirrors
completely obfuscate sound, but he
does notice that they're moving.
I, I just thought, oh, Hey, they did
pay attention to the fact that there
was something that happened before.
Ben: That's why Dewey survives because as
fucking dumb as he can be, he also learns.
Dewey is the only character in
this whole movie to be like,
Hey, how do I know you're not
Ghostface using the voice changer.
And then he's also actually
doing some detective work.
I mean, he's not fucking
Sherlock Holmes or whatever.
Ben: Question based on where in the
house they find the Ghostface gear.
Do we think Roman was hiding out just
like getting dressed into the costume
and then calling them up like as Sidney
from like literally just a room away.
Or did he do it from like farther away
and then just stash the gear there?
Jeremy: The gear is also stashed
in a way that it is not like stuck
in a jacket pocket or something.
It is like on display in this closet.
It feels like he wants them to
find it, but then they never
really say anything about that.
He tries to grab Gale, Gale fights back.
They fall down the stairs.
This is where Galeliterally gets
the Sidney scene of like waking up.
And the unconscious Ghostface is
still in robe and mask is like in
her way so she can't get past him
without potentially waking him up.
but they quickly undercut that scene.
you know, The two of them are
fighting again and Dewey interrupts
them and Ghostface throws a
knife up the stairs at him.
And it flips through the air.
And, what is so doofy in this movie,
but is also incredibly fun from a like
characters, throwing knives in this
working out standpoint, the non-business
end of the knife hits Dewey in the
forehead and he, uh, gets knocked
unconscious and falls down the stairs.
And then they are both tied up
for Sidney to come find later.
Ben: I do like we get this little
game of "Marco Stabbo" where Gale
is trying to be quiet and Ghostfaces
like, mm-hmm, , I'm semi passed out and
I'm just gonna wildly flail my knife
in whatever direction I hear sound.
TJ: Oh, my I'm just imagining like baby
Ghostface having a, a little night terror.
Jeremy: Yeah they're playing it less like
he's unconscious and more like he has
some sort of like, Dungeons and Dragons
temporary blindness effect on him.
TJ: Now, if Dewey had died, like
if the knife, you know, if 50, 50
chance that the knife was gonna
go in, would you have been mad?
If they killed-
Emily: I would've been furious.
Emily: I would've been fucking furious.
Ben: If Dewey died in this movie,
like, I feel like I go into every
movie knowing like, fuck, this
could be the movie they take out.
Dewey or Gale like-
TJ: But if thiss was the end movie,
like if this was the end of the
trilogy and there was no more,
Emily: I, I think if they were gonna
kill Dewey, they would have to do it in
a lot more of like, a lot more fanfare.
Like he would've needed to take
himself out or like take the Ghostface
out with him or something like that.
Like, you know, that's-
Jeremy: It's just really true to Dewey.
He would've gotten hit with the knife
the way he did and then broken his neck,
falling down the stairs afterwards.
If it had been that I would've been into
it, but I dunno, I think some of the
more bullshit elements of this whodunit
and all like the ridiculousness of the
reveal, I think is mitigated in this kind
of sense of like, okay, well it's campy.
It's gonna be, but at least it
didn't do like, lasting damage.
Like, I'm not sure how I
feel if it's like, shit.
This is the Ghostface that like
takes out Dewey, like all these
better villains couldn't do it
and like fucking this ding dong.
Does it like if it's, I don't
know, I want a better killer reveal
for if and when Dewey bites it.
Emily: Oh yeah.
He, he would need like a proper sendoff.
Granted, there is a sense where just
sort of like, yeah, and then the killer
just fucking throw his knife and then
Dewey just fucking caught it in the face
and then broke his neck on the stairs.
I'm like, yeah.
That's how Dewey would go.
Ben: But no, like at this point,
there's just been too much time with
Dewey to not want to see him to see
him go with like a lot of fanfare.
Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely.
I feel like by this point, any of the
people who have survived this long
into the series either have to be
the killer in a movie or they have to
die saving everybody else, you know?
Ben: I'll say this.
If we ever get Patrick Dempsey
back, I expect him dead.
Like immediately Cotton Weary style.
TJ: So in the original Scream 4, that was
supposed to happen, but it doesn't happen.
So, ah, yeah.
He's not in Scream 4 sadly.
Jeremy: He was too dreamy by then.
Sidney shows up and is
attempting to untie Dewey.
When she gets attacked and Kincaid
shows up, does the same thing cops
do in every horror movie, nothing.
Ben: And the movie really wants you to
think it's Kincaid for a hot second.
There's a lot of Telegraph in there too.
They, they telegraph it and then
forget about him and then plug
him back in, in the movie because
you know, they need somebody.
Sidney does a fake out.
Discards one gun and it turns out she
has another one hidden away as well.
Ben: I do love Kincaid's explanation
for why he's there is, because it sounds
like where an Act III would be set.
Emily: I mean, yeah, this is
the movie that we're watching.
If he appeared in more scenes and had more
character, could have a very interesting,
like, oh, he knows about movies thing too.
Uh, cuz they tried to do that.
They give him movie posters, but then
like the one conversation that he has
about movies is the fugging worst.
Ben: I know, I love the idea though of
just this wacky police precinct that
they're like, Hey Kincaid likes movies.
Give him all the movie crimes.
Jeremy: The celebrity
crimes unit at the LAPD.
Emily: I mean...
Ben: That must-
Emily: Do we know that that isn't?
Ben: That must exist
somewhere off the books.
Ben: Check out the file on Sean Penn.
Jeremy: That's Steven Segal's job.
So Sidney finds Milton's secret theater
room, Ghostface locks her inside.
He reveals that he's Roman.
And this is where things get real
problematic for me is because we find
out Maureen, was sexually assaulted by
presumably Milton at all at this party.
and as a result, abandoned
her son, Roman left him behind
here in Hollywood somewhere.
He doesn't say whether he grew up
in an orphanage or what happened.
and then because she had been sexually
assaulted, she decided to go home and
sleep with everybody, which is why she
was sleeping around with everybody in.
The prelude to Scream during
which time she slept with
Billy's dad and Cotton Weary.
During her time doing this, Roman was
following her around and filming it.
Roman, her son was following her
around and filming her, uh, meeting
up with, uh, men at a hotel.
Then passed this information off to
Billy and Stu who then kill Maureen,
which is why he has in this movie
claimed that he killed cause he is
indirectly responsible for her death.
Because while they are the killers of
this horror movie, he is the director of
this horror, uh, which is an analogy they
don't do enough with as Ben was saying.
Ben: I do have to say him being like,
I was the director of the killing.
I'm like that's some real Obi
Wan from a certain point of view,
kind of, uh, cop out bullshit.
But I will say, I like that him
influencing billions do more than I like a
much more direct ret-con of like he killed
her and Billy just like took credit.
Like I love the twist in two
where it's Billy's mother and it's
like, oh yeah, that was Billy's
whole motivation was his parents
splitting up and his mother leaving.
So her coming back for vengeance, like
that totally makes sense based on what
we already knew going into the movie.
This twist relies on a whole
bunch of stuff that only gets
introduced into this movie.
and with Roman's a whole situation
like his whole exposition and
everything, like the fact that he's
her brother or whatever, like that's
where, when you were talking like,
oh yeah, Leia was Luke's sister.
I was like, oh yeah, I
guess that's the same thing.
But, his whole motivation, like I
didn't give a shit about, and I felt
like I wasn't supposed to because
Sid at this point is just like, okay.
All right, cool.
and then she has this really great
response, which is, you know, just
take some fucking responsibility.
Sid says all of this shit . Is
not what led you to kill.
You killed because you decided to
so take some fucking responsibility.
Considering the conversation
that happened, Like even around
Columbine where, you know, people
talk about these kids and were
they bullied and were they bla-.
You know, this or that?
that's a bit different of course,
because they were kids and this
is a little different situation.
But the point being that all
of these people are trying
to blame media for violence.
And in this case, it's all about media.
It's about media being involved and, and
you know, this guy wants to be famous and
he's pissed off because he was rejected by
his mother, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And this is something
that's also very Hollywood.
When you have a Hollywood story about a
killer, it's all about why do they do it?
Who are they?
What are they?
It's the same thing in true crime where
they're like what is going on here?
This is so weird and, unreal and horrible.
And Sid is just like, cutting directly
through the bullshit with this line where
she says, no, there's no mystery here.
You're killing people because
you, you chose to, and I don't
need to hear any story about it.
I don't need to hear your excuses
because that's what they are.
I don't need to hear an exposition.
I just need you to realize that you
are killing and you are a murderer and
there's no fucking excuse for that.
No matter how shitty your situation is.
Considering how this movie is very
non-committal about the sexism
and the racism- they're more
like they do the Simpsons sort
of like, well, what can you do?
A bout it where in this case, there's
the actual point, which I feel is
very compelling in this case about
media influencing violence and
people using as an excuse, et cetera.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
TJ: Oh, I love it.
And I, I wanted to bring up the
Maureen Prescott thing here.
Like I think we all like that the
movie addressed such a topic and went
there back in the two thousands, but
like, I don't don't know how I feel.
So I'm again, I'm asking you
guys your opinion on this too.
in terms of how it handled, like the
trauma of Maureen Prescott and in
turn, how it affected her children.
Because to me, the movie seems to
really be like, oh, this trauma that
she went through, she never got over it.
And it turned not that I'm saying
this is true or that I feel it, but
it almost feels like the movie is
saying, oh, like it turned her into
a slut and she never got over that.
And then it's not good.
And then in turn, I almost feel like the
movie, especially with Sidney holding
Roman's hand, like they have that moment.
And to me, it, it seems like the movie
is trying to make it seem like, oh, but
she kind of understands it because he
was also fucked up from their mother.
And I'm like the mother did nothing
to Sidney and it just seems like
it's trying to imply that she did.
And I don't like that.
Ben: When we first got with Maureen
Prescott she was just like a
woman who cheated in the suburbs.
I was like, didn't really
need to be more than that.
But then again, you add the extra
trauma backstory on it and it's
like, you know, we talked about how
in Titane it's like, well, the movie
doesn't explicitly say that her injury
led to her being a serial killer, who
has sex with cars, but it feels like
impossible to escape that interpretation
cuz you don't give us anything else.
Ben: It's kind of similar in this
movie where, but it's almost even
more blatant because with Roman you're
directly tying the two together almost
it's like I was created from this
terrible thing that happened to her.
And then I revealed to the world,
this, this bad thing she was doing.
And I don't know, even just
that level of connection.
I'm like, man, what the fuck
are you trying to say here?
Jeremy: There's a part
of me that I think like.
It is important that a movie
addressed this kind of thing.
Maybe not this movie, especially because
it is easily the campiest of these movies.
It is over the top.
I mean, Jay and Silent
Bob appear in this movie.
Having this movie delivering an
important message about sexual assault
and, people being taken advantage of
by Hollywood doesn't seem like the
best line to draw, especially when
you start talking about like, oh yeah.
The reason that Maureen slept
around with these other characters
before Scream one is because
she was sexually assaulted here.
Uh, that's it, ah, it gets
really yucky, especially once he
starts ascribing blame to her.
It's never something that's
directly disputed by Sidney either.
And also to some extent, this movie
suffers from the problem that I have
with every story about Thomas and
Martha Wayne or Peter Parker's parents.
Just, like, I don't care.
I don't care about their parents.
I want a story about this character.
And like what's important about them is
that they took what they had and built
themself into this, this thing, this, you
know, Batman or Spiderman or whatever.
It's much better if Spiderman's
parents are just people like
they're just people and, you know,
they were just doing their thing.
And then he is just a guy who gets
bit by a spider and then gets powers
and does extraordinary things.
In this case.
Like it doesn't add anything to Sidney's
character to give her mother who is
already dead at the beginning of the
first movie, a tragic backstory, in the
middle of this otherwise goofy movie.
Ben: Easily the goofiest of these movies.
Like, again, that it's literally
a movie produced by Harvey.
Weinstein is just.
TJ: I can appreciate what the movie
was trying to do and being like, oh,
her mother never got over her trauma.
So we're gonna make Sidney's journey
about getting over her personal
trauma by the end of the film.
I get that.
I appreciate it.
But when you look at Sidney's mother
as a character, which again, it's so
weird, cuz she's not even these movies.
Her agency was taken away even before
the first film she was murdered.
We find out she was sleeping around
and like, To me, that makes her
interesting, cuz she's not perfect.
Before this movie, the only thing
we really knew about her was like,
okay, so she was sleeping with other
people outside of her marriage.
That's the one thing
that she had agency over.
It seemed like, yeah.
And then this movie took that away
from her as well and was like, no,
she was only doing that because she
was fucked up by men in her youth.
And it's like, okay, I guess
she's just not a character.
She's just a plot device.
Emily: That's a, that's a fantastic
point about her sexuality, you
know that she can't just be a
promiscuous woman who is just.
Trying to, you know.
TJ: Let Maureen Be A Slut 2022, please.
Let Maureen be a slut!
Ben: You're so right about it.
Jeremy: Just let Maureen be a slut.
TJ: In a positive way.
I endorse being a slut.
Emily: Be a slut.
Just communicate about it.
Make sure everyone's on board.
Consensual slutiness 20, 22.
Ben: All right.
So we get our big, final confrontation.
Let's wrap- let's wrap up this
fun little recap we've had.
So in- instead of this, uh, we
have Jake from scandal and, uh,
uh, and uh, the fucking Felicity.
Well good ol' Noel Crane from
Felicity, uh, is the bad guy.
Ben: Oh, I recognized him as,
um, fucking Elliot's temporary
love interest from scrubs.
He's- He's a great
temporary love interest.
Ben: Whatever gets you working Hollywood.
It it's a cutthroat business.
Jeremy: he brings out Milton.
Sidney calls him on his bullshit.
Uh, they have some fighting, the other
two main characters try very hard to get
into this room and are very bad at it.
Copman shows up and does, does what
horror movie cops always do and
fails to do anything except maybe
distract the killer for a moment.
Sidney stabs Roman with an ice
pick, which apparently Neve Campbell
missed the pad she was supposed
to hit him with and actually, uh,
managed to, stab this poor man.
Jeremy: So Scott Foley's reaction is
authentic when he gets stabbed here.
Ben: Oh, poor Scott Foley.
Jeremy: yeah, There's a series of
turnabouts in which eventually, she ends
up taking him down and then he gets back
up and, has to be shot several times in
his bulletproof vest before they finally
shoot him in the head, we also get Sidney
having the turnabout of getting shot.
She gets shot and it gets
caught by her bulletproof vest.
Now, when somebody gets shot at
point blank range in a bulletproof
vest, they don't just get back up.
Ben: Bulletproof vests work.
The way they work in the Scream Universe
is that they make you completely
immune from an infinite amount of
bullets that are fired at the vest.
Emily: I mean, yes.
Like I mean they have magical voice boxes
and teleporting Scream guys, like okay.
The bulletproof vests are like,
just remember they're bulky.
She stole hers from the
actual police department.
It is the relative size of a traffic vest.
And yet they just stop bullets dead.
They don't actually affect you at all when
you get shot at playing point blank range.
Ben: I read an interview with Scott
Foley, where he said he was not told
that he was going to be the killer
until two weeks into production.
Emily: I mean, they gotta
keep everyone on their toes.
I mean, all these scripts are leaking
to the internet on fax machines.
Jeremy: Ben and TJ I know you
guys are, are, are younger
than Emily and I, I don't know.
Emily, do you remember the like ain't it
cool news days of the internet where like,
scripts leaking to the internet was like
a big thing people were worried about.
Emily: Oh yeah.
Well, I remember the script
to Generations was leaked.
and so there was a big thing about that.
And I remember friends and I were like,
talking about it cuz my friend, had
gone on- cuz she, she had Netscape.
and then she's like, I ca- I just need
to tell you, I just need to tell you.
And we had a very sentimental
conversation about data, for
the, the generation script.
And after that I was
like the internet, eh?
And I, yeah, I do remember that.
Jeremy: Yeah, it's, it's a prevalent
both in and around this movie that
people are very worried about scripts
getting leaked and there's several
versions of scripts and things like that.
Ben: Nowadays, everyone knows
that the best way to keep things
from leaking is just . Oh Tom.
Don't tell Tom Holland and you'll be fine.
TJ: Worked on Scream 6.
Jeremy: Tom Holland is
the internet of the 2020s.
Dewey proposes to Gale in the only way
that you could really propose to Gale.
With a copy of her own book.
Which he has hollowed out
and put the ring inside of.
Emily: I thought you hated my book.
That's why I defaced it.
To ask you to marry me.
Jeremy: They both accept the fact
that this will probably end horribly,
but decide to get married anyway.
And they move out to the
country with Sidney and I
guess Kincaid who is there too.
Ben: I guess they all live
together in a big house.
I don't know how this-
Emily: Maybe they just are
hanging out at Sid's house.
They're having a sleepover.
Actually, if I was Sid
I wouldn't be into that.
You're like, now you guys just, I'm gonna.
Jeremy: You don't wanna sleep with
your dead best friends' older brother.
Ben: I mean, one of my favorite
relationships in this movie that I
think throughout the series, they do a
good job with is the surrogate brother,
sister bond between Dewey and Sidney.
Emily: Yeah, Sidney's outfit in this
scene, by the way, is fucking fly.
Like this, that outfit is so cute on her.
I'm glad the dog's okay.
Jeremy: She's going for jogs in the
countryside with her dog and just leaving
fences open and leaving doors open.
I guess she's just not into
keeping her house air conditioned.
Cause it's not just that
she's not locking everything.
She's just fucking leaving
doors open behind her.
Emily: She's probably off the
grid, you know, going fully solar.
Jeremy: I mean that in that
place, there's probably snakes
coming into that house behind her.
Like, she's gonna walk in-
TJ: I like the movie is just very-
TJ: Very heavily.
Like this is a metaphor.
Did you get this as a metaphor?
She's leaving the door open.
I was like, I got it.
Ben: Movie was so proud of itself.
Jeremy: The movie is about this far
from, from the police officer coming up
and walking into the door and then back
out and then back in and then back out
uh, so that's the end
of the movie it's over.
And then, uh, we get a re- a re-recording
of red right hand over the credits.
Emily: And then creed.
Jeremy: And then creed
Emily: and Brett watched like- Brett
cackled at my bitter beer face at creed.
Ben: All right y'all.
So is Scream 3 feminist?
Ben: You tried.
I think you have the positive of
you once again, have a very wide
variety of fun, entertaining,
well written women characters.
Sidney is still like the best
final girl in the business.
Gale is still very much like
Courteney Cox being a force of nature.
we, we talked a lot about like every
moment of Parker Posey is solid gold.
At the same time you do also have
everything we talked about with Weinstein
andtaking away Maureen's agency and d
yeah, the movie tries, but it's a few
steps forward and too many steps back.
Emily: I totally agree because as
cool as Sidneyand Gale and all these
characters are, and, and Sidney's scene-
the whole speech about responsibility
and, their agency and everything.
The slut shaming and the, the very,
very half-assed attempt at addressing
the abuse going on in Hollywood,
because at the time I'm pretty sure
that the context of that these girls
are privileged because they can sleep
with execs and get jobs that way.
Jeremy: And everybody's sleeping with
somebody to have gotten this job on
stab, but then we move on to this like
much more serious context of abuse.
So there's, there's no
real clear message there.
and it's yeah, like Ben said, it takes
a few steps forward, but its missteps
are fatal to the conveyance of that
message if they were trying to make one.
Jeremy: And I mean, just to kind
of curtail this into , the next
point, it does have a nice wide
variety of white women, this movie.
There are no women of color in this movie.
There is one, one black guy who,
they really make a point of murdering
in just the most, uh, horrible and
gruesome way of anybody in this movie.
Despite the fact that he, he
seems generally like a nice guy.
Ben: yeah, this is definitely
a step back from Scream 2
TJ: for sure.
Jeremy: I don't feel like there's a whole
bunch to say about class in this movie.
Everybody is sort of
remarkably the same class.
There's not even the striations I
feel like there should be in a group,
like what we see from this, but.
Ben: They're having fun, like with
the whole like LA glitz and glamor
and hypocrisy of it, but like, you
know, we're, we're not talking Bo Jack
horseman, exploration of Hollywood here.
Like There's fun, campy meta bits,
but you're seeing a more shallow
exploration of a city you've
seen, you've probably seen better
explored in a lot of other things.
TJ: Speaking of class, like we know
Sidney hates the Stab movies, but
do you think her little secluded
house is funded by the Stab income?
Ben: I don't think she's earning that
house on her crisis hotline salary.
Emily: Oh, absolutely not.
Ben: She may hate on those movies, but
I think she's cashing those checks.
Emily: And you know what good for her.
Ben: Oh yeah.
Get your money girl.
TJ: If they're gonna exploit you and you
have no say at least get money from it.
Jeremy: What about all the queer
representation in this movie guys?
Ben: I mean, Jennifer's really
into getting inside Gale's head.
Emily: And Sid is or Not Sid.
N ew Sid.
Um, Angelina is very obsessed with Sidney.
I mean, there's a, there's there's
some stuff there that could
Ben: There's straws that we can reach for.
But that's about it.
It's, it's nowhere near as gay as,
our two boys from the original film.
Jeremy: I think probably
least gay of the three.
I don't know.
TJ: I mean.
The second one at least had like
a don't ask don't tell joke.
And they're like, oh, some security guard.
My body guard could be gay,
but like this had nothing.
Ben: Like this is a pretty straight movie.
Jeremy: Feel the distinct lack of
Kevin Williamson in this aspect.
I feel like.
Jeremy: It feels like a Scream
movie is not a Scream movie
without Kevin Williamson.
And guys, I, I feel like we've kind of
talked to death, the, mental illness,
mental health part of this, cuz it's bad.
Their portrayal of PTSD and what it
does or doesn't mean is, is not good.
It's no good.
This movie could have something
interesting to say about that
stuff, but it should not be in the
same movie as Jay and Silent Bob.
Emily: I mean, dogma tried, but
Jay and Silent Bob are not really
suited to discuss feminism or pretty
much anything other than weed.
I mean, they've managed
to talk about religion.
Jeremy: Drinking beers,
drinking beers, beers, beers.
Emily: Uh, smoking fatties.
Who smokes the blunts?
Jeremy: We smoke the blunts.
Emily: Smoking blunts
and rolling blunts....
Jeremy: So not Jay and
Silent Bob but Scream 3.
Do we think it was worth seeing?
Do we recommend people check it out?
Ben: Like I said, it's Scream movies
or pizza, even the bad ones are good.
Emily: if you like Scream, I would say the
love, the familiarity of Dewey and Gale,
I think is a big carrier for this movie.
So if you like that, you know?
I, I mean, I'm going to go with Ben.
I mean, this is the bell peppers and
anchovies of pizza, but it's still pizza.
You can pick off the anchovies.
Emily: I do want to write, like an
essay about this movie, because there's
so many things that it accidentally
does that are kind of brilliant.
Jeremy: But you were gonna say you
wanted to write a fix-it fan f ic.
Emily: I mean, I could also do that.
it wouldn't, It would just
be like a couple things,
like get rid of all of this.
And then, you know, have, Angelina
be the killer and then it's fixed.
TJ: I think it is brilliant.
It's just also messy, which
the other films aren't.
So it, it, you know, has that problem,
but I think it still has brilliance in it.
Well, that's one of the reasons I would
wanna write about it cuz I'm like, this
is there's some shit here that connects.
TJ: Do it, I will read whatever you write.
Jeremy: Screem 3 is the
Aliens 3 of Screams.
Emily: You know, yeah.
Jeremy: All right.
Well with that, that in mind what
would you recommend people check out?
Ben: I haven't seen it yet,
but I hear really good things
about the Chucky TV series and-
TJ: It's so good!
Ben: So it looks like it combines
levels of horror and camp that
this movie's got going on.
So again, on TJ's recommendation, I'm
gonna recommend the Chucky TV show.
Emily: If you like Parker Posey, and
if you like movies that are about
media and that are meta, uh, if
you like movies, that kind of call
out the bullshit in media and in
this case, the music industry, Josie
and the Pussy Cats is a bonkers.
That's actually really funny.
it's not at all horror unless you
consider the existential horror
of the, uh, the music industry,
especially in the early two thousands.
Parker Posey is kind of the same
character, except she's like a,
a super villain in this movie,
which is fucking fantastic.
And, uh, a Alan Cummings is in it.
And a bunch of other people whose names.
I can't remember, whose names
I should remember, cuz we've
talked about them before, but
yeah, Josie and the Pussy Cats.
I think it actually would be a
really great chaser for this movie.
So every time I come on this show,
I always stress about what I'm gonna
recommend at the end and I was really
struggling ahead of time for this one.
But as we were talking and just
thinking like what, something, that's
kind of deals with theatricality and
feminism and mental health issues.
And I, I have to bring up Black Swan.
I've only seen it a few times, a long,
long time ago, but I remember really
liking it and it has Natalie Portman.
We did an episode on that one where we-
TJ: Did you, I totally missed that one.
Emily: Yeah, yeah.
TJ: I have to rewatch it.
Emily: Do I mean, there's certain
there is feminism in there.
There's some, some things here and
there, but um, it's definitely.
It's gay shit.
So I, I don't have a real, like
recommendation that's Screamadjacent.
But I, I recently had, uh, one of those
moments where I was going through HBO,
max, and just looking at stuff and,
uh, tried out something that turned
out to be, just a fantastic show.
it is short, it's nine episodes.
it's just the first season of it
so far, it's a Canadian series
called sort of, and so RT space O F.
It's a really, interesting series.
It's kind of a comedy, but a lot
of the comedy comes from, uh,
weird, awkward, emotional places.
The main character Sabi is, a, a gender
fluid, non-binary Pakistani Canadian,
character who has uh, taken on this
job to be a nanny for this, uh, more
affluent family neighborhood and, is
sort of like dealing with a lot of their
own life and trying to figure out where
they're going well at the same time
this family, uh, who's like the mom
she's really close with the mom gets
in an accident and ends up in a coma.
Sabi is sort of like trying to help
the kids and the dad get through, this
whole, you know, trauma of, of their
mom being in a coma and trying to figure
out what's going on with their lives.
So it's both like very
emotional and also very funny.
the main character's played by Bilal
Baig uh, Sabi is really good and is an
actual character who, as opposed to a
lot of movies that are about people in
L G B T stories, actually has like a
community of queer people around them.
It's, created by, uh, Bilal
and uh, Fab Filippo it.
and it's just like funny and
hopeful, and interesting, and like,
there's this whole subplot about,
Sabi coming out to their mother.
And the mother is, is less worried about
the gender stuff than she is upset about,
Sabi being, uh, a nanny for white people.
This very like specific cultural
context of like, the mom being upset
about that is, is funny in its own way.
It's one of those shows that, like
I tried it out with the intention
of like, oh, I'll give it one
episode and see what happens.
And then like the next day, Alicia
and I had watched the entire series.
So, it's definitely worth checking out.
It's on HBO.
Uh, it's like nine half
hour episodes sort of.
Right is that- Nice!
So, uh, TJ, can you let people know,
uh, where they can find you and
also, uh, your podcast online if
they haven't already listened to it?
So you can find me on Twitter at
@troyfin2 I talk about all things book
related, pretty Batman related at this
point, but also everything gay culture.
And I try to make a joke here,
there, and talk about fandoms.
So say hi, and of course my Batman
podcast, Gotham Outsiders, The
Batman Book Club, you can find on
Twitter @GothamOutsiders, and you'll
hear friend of this pod, Chris.
Who's my co-host.
Uh, where we talk about Batman
and just make it a lot gayer
as we do with everything.
Jeremy: And, uh, as for the rest
of us, you can find Emily @MegaMoth
on Twitter and @Mega_Moth on
Instagram and at MegaMoth.net.
Ben is on Twitter @BenTheKahn and on
their website at BenKahnComics.com,
where you can pick up all of their
books, including the brand new Immortals
Fenyx Rising graphic novel from
Great Beginnings and the GLAAD award
nominated Renegade Rule graphic novel.
Uh, and finally for me, you can find
me on Twitter and Instagram @JRome58.
That's J R O M E 5 8.
And my website is Jeremy
whitley.com, where you can check
out everything that I write.
And of course the podcast is on Patreon
at Progressively Horrified, on our website
And on Twitter @ProgHorrorPod, where
we would love to hear from you.
Tell us what you think of, uh, the
podcast, what you think of the movies.
Give us recommendations.
If there's things you
want us to check out.
Speaking of loving to hear
from you, we would love it.
If wherever you're listening to
this, you review the podcast.
5star reviews, help us reach
more listeners, help us get
recommended to more people.
And Thank you so much again for TJ,
for joining us way someday, we're
gonna get all these Scream movies
we're gonna get 'em knocked out.
TJ: Oh, well, thank you
for having me as always.
And I am so ready to talk about Scream
4 with you all sooner than later.
Ben: Oh yeah.
We'll get there.
We gotta do it soon because we, we, we
gotta have you on for all the Screams.
TJ: I think you all will love it.
I, I'm excited to see 4 and 5.
Now that five is, uh, it paramount
keeps trying to tell me to watch it.
TJ: it's also good.
If you like 4, I think you will like 5.
Ben: I, I can speak to 4 being good.
Jeremy: Thank you as always to
Emily and Ben for joining me.
And thank you all of you for listening
and, uh, until next time stay horrified.
Alicia: Progressively Horrified
is created by Jeremy Whitley and
produced by me, Alicia Whitley.
This episode features Jeremy Ben,
Emily, and special guest, TJ Finecey.
All opinions expressed by the commentators
are solely their own and do not represent
the intent or opinion of the filmmakers.
Nor do they represent the
employers, institutions, or
publishers of the comments.
Our theme music is Epic Darkness
by MarioKohl06 and was provided
royalty free from Pixabay.
Thanks for listening.