Night of the Living Dead (aka The Creepy Corpsies)

It's our 100th Episode and we’re talking about the movie that basically invented the zombie genre!

Alicia: Hey, just a heads up.

The episode you're about to listen
to is about night of the living dead

directed by George Romero and written
by John Russo and George Romero.

Some relevant trigger warnings for
this movie include racial violence,

violence against women and gore, and
our hosts ranked this movie as scary.

If you'd like to learn more
about the movie, discuss this

evening, please visit our website.

Progressively horrified.transistor.fm
for show notes and transcripts.

After the spooky music we'll talk
about the movie in full so be

forewarned there will be spoilers.

Now let's get on with the show.

Jeremy: Good evening.

And welcome to this very special
episode of progressively horrified.

It's the 100th episode.

Ben: Woo woo.

Woo.

100 horror movies.

We did it y'alls!

Jeremy: Our brains are all the
more rotted for, for having

done hundred episodes of it.

Ben: Oh, so much death, so much death.

Jeremy: Yes.

We've seen so many people die.

As always, we are uh, the podcast that
holds horror to progressive standards

it never agreed to and tonight, because
it is so special, we decided to find

uh, a movie that was just as special.

So we're talking about one of the
singularly, most influential, most

important and most progressive
horror movies of all time.

The movie that basically invented the
zombie genre, George Romero's 1968

masterpiece Night of the Living Dead.

I am your host, Jeremy
Whitley and with me tonight.

I have a panel of
cinephiles and cenobites.

First, they're here to challenge the
sexy werewolf, sexy vampire binary.

My co-host Ben Kahn.

Ben, how are you tonight?

Ben: I think if there's any movie we've
done that actually does agree to be

held to these progressive standards.

It George Romero's living dead trilogy.

Jeremy: Oh, for sure.

Also joining us the cinnamon roll of
cenobites, our co-host Emily Martin.

How are you tonight, Emily?

Emily: Wishing that hair standards,
maybe not wishing that hair

standards were back, but of the.

Caliber that we saw in this
film, but wishing that my hair

standards could be of that caliber.

Which is the least of
the, this film's triumphs.

Jeremy: Yes.

This film certainly does have hair game.

Ben: After, after last week's turned
down, Texas chainsaw massacre.

It's really nice to have watched
a classic horror movie that lives

up to that title, because this
is, a, just still a good movie.

It is still an entertaining, thrilling
watch, but then God, when you think

about every zombie trope that we just
utterly take for granted that have

appeared in dozens of movies and that
this one film invented nearly all of them.

Emily: And they don't say
zombie once in the film.

Ben: Which also honestly feels
like a zombie movie trope.

Yeah.

Lonely.

It's the walkers and the
ghouls and the creepy corpsies!

Jeremy: Ben uh, you drew the
short straw on this one tonight.

So, uh, let's hear what
this film is about.

What happened?

Ben: All right.

Join me, y'all, for our 100th film.

Our story begins in 1968, when the world
was still entirely black and white.

Siblings Johnny and Barbara are driving to
a cemetery to visit their father's grave.

Johnny's unhappy cuz it's a three hour
drive each way and it's already 8:00 PM.

I don't know why they left at
5:00 PM, but apparently it's

because Johnny slept in mad late.

At the cemetery, the siblings are chased
by an ashen-faced man who is totes alive.

Don't even worry about it, bro.

Johnny tries to fight off the zombie
and is knocked over and comes down

with a bad case of head smash.

The zombie chases, Barbara, some
more and manages to catch up because

Barbara immediately crashed the
car into the first tree she saw.

She runs to a nearby farmhouse
where she finds a half-eaten woman

and just goes into all the shock.

Zombies are surrounding
the house, but never fear.

Ben has arrived and he knows
what the fuck is going on.

Ben, whoops a bunch of zombies with a
tire iron and then sets one on fire.

Cuz fire is about the only special
effect this movie could afford.

Ben describes how he first encountered
the zombies when they invaded a

diner, he was in and he fought his
way out and saw a flaming gas truck

that the movie definitely didn't
have the budget to actually do.

Barbara tells about how the zombie
attacked her, her brother and chased

her and Ben hates this story so much
that he punches Barbara in the face.

Barbara is knocked unconscious
and is now pretty much useless

for the rest of the movie because
Ben 1000% gave her a concussion.

Ben is surprised when Harry Cooper and Tom
emerged from the cellar where they have

been hiding with Tom's girlfriend, Judy,
Harry's wife, Helen, and daughter, Karen.

Also Karen's been bitten by
a zombie and is feeling sick.

So get ready for this movie
to invent another trope.

The group watches a broadcast
that explains that the reason

for the zombie attack is, well,
I don't know, maybe space did it.

And that's about all the
explanation we're ever gonna get.

And I love it.

Harry wants to board up in the cellar
while Ben wants to secure the house.

Tom helps Ben while Harry holes
up in the basement where his wife

can actively hate him to his face.

Fucking love Helen.

After another broadcast advises
people to travel to shelters

set up by the national guard.

Ben comes up with a plan to fuel up
a truck and escape the house after a

shockingly heartfelt and well acted
scene where Tom and Judy debate whether

it's the right call to leave the house.

Ben, Tom and Judy rush out to fuel
the truck while Harry fends off the

zombies by throwing Molotov cocktails.

Unfortunately, the flaws in a plan
whose main components are gasoline

and fire quickly become apparent.

The gas hose hits the torch
and the truck catches on fire.

Ultimately exploding, Tom and Judy.

When Ben rushes back to the house,
Cooper un- won't unlock the door to

let him in cuz he is the fucking worst.

Ben kicks the door down and beats the
shoot shit out of Harry for being a fuck.

The zombie starts breaking through
the barricades and after Cooper

tries to go for the gun, Ben
decides he's had enough of his shit

and just straight up, shoots him.

Down in the basement.

Karen is re-animated as a tiny little
child zombie and stabs the shit outta

Helen with a garden trowel because oh
yeah, zombies can use tools in this film.

Barbara, meanwhile, recovers from her
concussion long enough to try to help

Ben barricade the house, but goes back
into shock when she sees the zombified

Johnny and is killed by him and the horde.

Ben meanwhile, then barricades
himself in the cellar where he gets

to kill Cooper for a second time.

Unfortunately, that will be
the highlight of Ben's night.

He manages to last through the night, but
when he goes back upstairs, he shot and

killed by a maurading band of gun-toting
zombie killers, who mistake him for

a zombie cuz maurading hordes of white
dudes with guns, never, ever goes poorly.

The end.

Emily: I wanna make a quick comment.

Ben doesn't hit, he doesn't punch Barbara.

She slaps him.

Then he slaps her and then she faints.

I don't think she got a concussion, but.

Ben: He punches her and
she falls unconscious.

If you are knocked unconscious, that
is some brain damage that has happened.

Emily: She passes out.

She faints.

Jeremy: He does open Palm slap, like.

Emily: Yeah.

Open Palm slap, which I mean, who
knows it could have given her a

concussion when she fell to the floor.

Ben: That looks alot like like
just a straight up hunch to me.

Jeremy: He comes way downtown
with his open hand slap.

Emily: Yeah, he has a serious slap.

But I think that it's really important
to mention that until Barbara starts

like laying hands on Ben to get outta
the house so they could get Johnny.

And cuz she's still in shock.

Jeremy: Ben doesn't was alive.

Even though that Johnny was
dead before the zombie actually

got to him, like, yeah,

Ben: I love this whole scene where
they're sharing each other's back stories.

Cuz at first Ben's doing his
deal and I'm just like, dude,

she's not listening to you.

She, this is all going through
one ear out the other, but then

it's like her turn and he starts
out like not listening in return.

And then he just gets like hostile.

Like I don't wanna hear it.

Calm down lady.

And then just fucking, just
knocks her the fuck out.

Well, I, I feel like that
scene escalated so fast.

Emily: She was definitely coming undone.

Right?

Like as she was processing what happened?

She was starting to get undone.

Yeah.

And he was like-.

Jeremy: She is scream-crying at him.

What, what has happened?

Yeah.

Emily: And I wanna ma I wanna mention
this because it's really important

to me because half of this time,
like between Ben and Barbara, that

they're in the house, Barbara's just
wandering around and touching stuff

and just like completely out of it.

And Ben is like taking stuff apart,
boarding up the windows, finding tools,

finding food, and he doesn't give her
any shit until she starts to come undone

as she's like freaking out, like as she
starts to, to yell and scream and, and

try to like push him out of the way.

He doesn't give her shit for
not helping, which I feel like

is an important point because.

In a lot of other movies, we have
characters that are just freaking out

and are, you know, essentially useless,
but people are giving them shit.

And the only person other than
Ben slapping her, when she at

like essentially attacks him,
although, she doesn't have a

lot of power there, but like.

Ben: Okay, he fucking decks
her and she goes down.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: For a good chunk of the movie.

Jeremy: I, I think it is an important
it is important to differentiate

there partially because Ben is the
one black character in this movie,

and this is a movie that actually
deals with race really well.

Especially considering it, was coming
out in the six, like the late sixties,

like Ben is resourceful and he is
trying to get shit done, and Barbara

like starts out at not particularly
helpful and traumatized and escalates

to scream-crying loudly and, slapping
him as he's trying to barricade them in.

She's trying to break out of the house.

And it isn't until that point that uh,
he, you know, he lays hands on her.

Ben: Barbara was frustrating for me
because she starts out in the movie

making some smart calls that are like
final girl caliber, smart decisions.

She's chased by the zombie.

She immediately loses her high heels.

She gets to the house, she
runs straight to grab a knife.

Like these are smart decisions
that are then not followed up

on for the rest of the film.

Jeremy: Yeah.

We, we didn't even mention that there's
that moment where her brother has

already gone down and she is trying
to get away from the zombie and gets

into the car and then realizes that
she doesn't have the keys to the car.

So she releases the emergency break
and just gets it to like glide

down the hill away from the z-
trying to get away from the Zombie.

And is eventually able to like, get it
far enough that she can run away from

the zombie and get to the house, which
like, yeah, like she is making some final

girl caliber decisions at that point.

She's smart enough to be scared when
she ought to be scared, but also she

does make a hard left turn at the point
that Ben has introduced from being the

protagonist of the movie to not being
the protagonist of the movie anymore.

Ben: Yeah.

She goes from the protagonist to
like the load of the team very fast.

Emily: There's a point where she discovers
the dead body in the uh, in the-.

Ben: That's really deter that's
when, like she's keeping it together.

Then once she sees the dead body
it's shock city from then on.

Emily: It's really intense
because so far that we've seen

of the zombies is just people.

They're just like people that look tired
in fucked up clothes, like that's-.

Ben: I love the moment when Johnny
and Robert first see the zombie and

Johnny's just teasing her being like,
ah, that guy's gonna come get you.

And then he just fucking leaves her.

And then I said, go back once
you realize like, oh shit, he's

actually attacking my sister.

Emily: Yeah.

And that's the, his, the famous
they're gonna come get you Barbara.

Night of the Living Dead: Well, you
used to really be scared here, Johnny.

You're still afraid.

Stop it now.

I mean it.

They're coming to get you Barbara.

Stop it.

You're ignorant.

They're coming for you, Barbara.

Stop it you're acting like a child.

They're coming for you.

Look that comes one of them.

Now he'll hear you here.

He comes.

Now I'm getting out of here, Johnny.

Ben: I definitely sympathize
a lot with Johnny.

I would also be pissed off if I had
to drive a total of six hours in

one day, just to lay a wreath on
someone that he says in the movie

he doesn't even remember his dad.

Emily: He's still kind of
a jerk about it though.

Like, Barbara's trying, they're there.

Ben: Six hours!

Six hours in the car.

I'm gonna be a fucking jerk about it too.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I'm, at the beginning, I'm a little
more sympathetic to him because.

I don't know if I missed a cue here,
but it felt unclear to me what their

relationship was at the beginning.

I thought this might be a, you know,
husband, wife kind of relationship where

he's just sort of a, grouchy husband type.

But like, by the point it becomes
obvious that they're brother and sister.

I was like, oh, I mean, nobody
wants to be doing this buddy.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

Like the fact that their brother and
sister does salvage a lot of that

relationship because it's not like every
dude is just abusive to their partner.

Uh, Although Tommy and Judy are alright.

um,

Ben: Tommy and Judy are a
love story for the ages.

Emily: I mean, Judy is somewhat
vacant of character, but-.

Ben: That's true.

Yeah.

I was shocked by the relationship.

Like, remember when the flood came
and we were telling, I'm just like,

It's such a shockingly tender scene
between the two of 'em that just

like marks them for death so hard.

Emily: Yeah.

Well, there's that scene.

And then there's the scene where Ben
talks about what he went through.

And I feel like that the decision
making there is to have these characters

kind of communicate to each other and
as they try to process the situation

I thought was uh, really elegant.

Ben: There has to be a comic book
or novel that explores like Ben's

time, like escaping the diner, right?

Like that someone had to, someone
has to have written that license

material or non-licensed cause this
movie is in the public fucking domain.

I watched this movie for free on YouTube
cuz the distributor fucked up and like

registered under a different name.

So

Jeremy: I mean it should be right.

Like, yeah, we should let movies of
this age go into the public domain.

I, I watched it on HBO because
they had the, you know, fancy

looking criterion collection
restored by George Lucas and his.

Um, you know, People version of it, I was
like, oh, the black and white is so crisp.

Ben: If you want to write your own
sequel where Ben survived and then

takes down the zombie killers and then
kills more zombies, you can do that.

Go!

You could, you could film
that today and release it.

Uh,

Emily: The conventions are back, baybee.

Let's do it.

Ben: Public domain motherfuckers.

Yeah.

Get on it.

Emily: I mean, I think that's what movies
have been doing for a while, but um,

there's so much to talk about with Ben.

First of all when he's introduced,
there's no comment at all about race.

Not even like a different reaction from
CATA, catatonic, Barbara like actually,

I feel like Barbara becomes catatonic
when she sees the dead body, because

that is a really terrifying effect.

There's like a really horrifying look of
the skull with eyeball and everything.

Ben: Oh yeah.

Emily: That, it's honestly one of
the scariest images in the movie.

Yeah.

And that's, the turning point.

And again like this, that's another
thing this movie does elegantly is

it chooses where to just go hard.

It's not completely elegant because
the ending credits for me seem a little

bit gratuitous, but we'll get to that.

Um, as we get back to Ben, I know
it's kind of the point, but-.

Ben: I do wanna say though, like,
just about Ben, Duane Jones as the

actor is fantastic in this movie.

Yeah.

He's really good.

Jeremy: The whole scene, he literally
like swoops in, he, you know,

comes flying into this scene and
is the one who's the most hands on.

And I like that.

He's so well defined and that
he is not particularly nice.

He, he is not terribly concerned with
being nice to people and, and, codling,

you know, the people who are having
an emotional breakdown at this point.

He is efficient.

He is looking out for everybody.

He's trying to get stuff done.

Like he's like, alright,
what do we have to do?

This is, this is a list, man.

He's got like, he gets, gets in there
and he is like, we gotta do this thing.

Gotta do this thing.

Gotta do this thing.

Like, yeah.

At no point, unlike some other characters
in this movie, is he, like, I'm just

gonna leave you all to your own devices.

Like, I'm not gonna help you.

Ben: He not only takes
leadership, he demands leadership.

Like he has a line to Cooper that I
absolutely love when they're debating

whether or not to barricade the house
or hold up in the cellar where he

says, you be the boss down there.

I'm the boss up here.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben: Like fucking legend.

Jeremy: As long as you're
up here, you do what I say.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: Granted it is a little complicated
by barricading yourself in the

cellar ends up being by far the
most effective survival strategy.

Emily: Yeah.

But-.

Ben: If everyone had listened to him
and not fucked up his plans and helped

him and unlocked doors when they were
supposed to and not poured gasoline on

torches, then it all woulda worked out.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: Actually I'm still not sure.

Actually, I'm still not
sure about that truck plan.

Uh, that much fire in gasoline feels
like an accident waiting to happen.

Jeremy: Up to the point where they
can't get the gas tank unlocked.

And so they shoot the lock off.

And so gasoline starts going everywhere
and gets on the torch, gets on the

car and it's like, oh, oh, well that
point when that plan went bad, as badly

as it could, as quickly as it could.

Ben: So a few things about
the fire in this movie.

A) I love when Ben sets the first
zombie on fire, cuz that thing just

catches goes entirely up in flames.

Like immediately.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben: And it's hilarious.

I think zombie sweat
kerosene in this franchise.

Jeremy: They're just very dry.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: The news reporter says
later, they're very flamable.

Emily: Yes.

Ben: We talked about treatment
of actors on films last week

off te- Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Now I couldn't find anything or anyone
talking about this, I'm a little

worried about a movie of this budget and
filmmaker experience, setting real human

beings on fire, which they clearly did.

Jeremy: Well.

They've got, it's very stunt fire though.

The way that the people get set on fire.

Cause it's like, it goes up up the
leg and arm and a line and then they

start, you know, windmilling and
it's like, oh no, this is, this is

the stunt guy who's wearing the, you
know, fire padding who, you know yeah.

They've set on fire.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, that's a, that's a pretty
established process, I think, in,

in uh, visual effects at that point.

But I mean-.

Ben: I'm just saying if Sam starts
setting dudes on fire, like in the

eighties making the evil, dead movies?

I would've been worried.

I'm like, do you know how
to set people on fire, Sam?

Emily: I think you can't get any
sort of license to do that at all.

Unless it's like the
appropriate people are involved.

Ben: Is there, I don't think
Texas chainsaw massacre got

any licenses for any shit.

It did.

Emily: Did it set anybody on fire though?

Ben: They didn't though.

And so that's a, that's a good point.

Would've been a better movie if we had
had a chainsaw that was also on fire.

Emily: There's there were
some sausages on fire.

But yeah.

Back to absolutely back to the good movie.

Ben: Which , invents so much that
zombies eat dead people that they're

not uh, voodun, but like monsters
that obey a master, that they're

explicitly like dead bodies, reanimated.

Jeremy: And they are slow and shambolic.

Ben: Yeah.

Like I think the only things about
this movie that like aren't like

long term is that in this movie
they can use tools which doesn't

happen in future zombie iterations.

And they have just like, I don't
know, space radiation as the

explanation instead of the virus,
which is usually what it is nowadays.

Pretty much everything we associate
with the zombie apocalypse.

Is right here in this one film.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Including, let's say like, it, it
becomes developed over the course of it.

Like they don't know at the beginning
how to kill them, but you know, the

scientists say, oh right, you have to
remove the head or destroy the brain.

Like, that's what we figured out.

Ben: Like Ben discover, like Ben kind
discovers it on his own earlier than

that with a headshot that I had in
my notes, like, was this the first

zombie headshot in film history?

Jeremy: Ben just keeps hitting
things until they don't move anymore,

regardless how he has to do it.

Yeah.

I think that's interesting to me.

And the tools thing I think is pretty
consistent throughout the Romero zombie

films, and like, you know, Dawn of the
Dead, Day of the Dead, and Land of the

Dead is like the zombies can learn.

They can, figure out ways to
break things and throw things.

I think one of the single best shots
and single best moments from this

movie is the zombie daughter coming
after her mom with that garden trowel.

I was like, cause that's,
that's frightening.

That zombie kid is the
scariest thing in this movie.

Emily: Yeah.

And the initial presentation
of the zombies in this movie

are not initially gory.

Like the first guy is just kind
of tired looking and shambling.

Ben: Yeah.

There's noticeably, not
zombie makeup on these actors.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, not a lot of it every, so
often you see a little bit here

and there and then, other thing is
important: zombies are all white.

There are a few female zombies, not a
lot of 'em, but initially the zombies

that are attacking Ben and Barbara
in the house are all white dudes.

Later on the horde starts consisting
of people, various states of undress

which I'm sure was very scandalous.

There's a naked woman
you see from the back.

And then there's like some people
who have some makeup on their faces

and here and there sometimes just
like death makeup, which is the

sunken eyes and the cheekbones.

And then otherwise, you know, sometimes
a little bit of latex on the face.

But other than that, not very grotesque,
which speaks to the initial horror the

idea of horror here of being chased,
not just by a mob, even just being

chased by a single individual that
has animal intent and the lack of

sentience, but the human energy, right?

The human ability to use tools, the
human strength, the human resilience.

Because after all human beings are,
very, very dangerous animals, as much as

they're treated as fragile in a lot of
horror movies, because, the protagonists

have to be relatable in that fear.

But the idea of something that looks
human that is unstoppable difficult to

kill, I mean, basically human but cannot
be reasoned with, that is a very, very

pure boiled down monster ideal, right?

For horror.

And this movie really does a great job of
focusing on that, you know, not focusing

on the gore aspect, but just this idea of
being hunted by a mob or by a few people

for no reason that you can ascertain
other than they just want to kill you.

And that becomes, I think, a big part
of what's being talked about here.

Ben: I love when they're debating, if the
zombies are strong, based off the evidence

of them having flipped over a car with
Ben being like anyone can flip over a car.

And I loved it because that definitely
feels like a conversation I'd have

while really stoned in college,
being like how many zombies you

think it would take to to flip a car?

Emily: But it's an interesting, like the.

Dynamic with Ben and Cooper is pretty
interesting because Cooper does have

kind of a point, but he's an asshole.

Ben: He's such an asshole.

I love how much-.

Emily: He is presented as an asshole.

Ben: Yeah.

I love that his wife, wife flat out
says, I like, we don't like each other,

like, I don't like living with you.

Yeah.

Flat out.

Emily: We don't like, we don't like living
with each other, but I don't think dying

with each other is gonna solve anything.

Ben: Yes.

That's the line like hell yeah.

Helen is just fucking unsparing.

Helen would be the second, most Savage
character in the movie, except for the

fucking TV scientist who is amazing.

Describe like when, in when like
urging people to burn their loved ones

because any dead body will reanimate he
says, and I quote, forego the dubious

comforts of a funeral service will give.

They're just dead flesh.

Night of the Living Dead: Minutes minutes.

Well that doesn't give people
time to make any arrangements.

Well, you're right.

It doesn't give them time to
make funeral arrangements.

The bodies must be carried to
the street and, and, and burned.

They must be burned.

Immediately.

Soak them with gasoline and burned them.

The bereaved will have to forego
the dubious comforts that a

funeral service will give.

Uh, they're just dead flesh and dangerous.

Ben: This TV scientist gives no fucks.

I just, the dubious
comfort funeral will give.

Yeah, the holy fuck.

He just went there like zombie
apocalypse or no, this can be this man

is just fucking going for the jugular.

Emily: The TV stuff that like the TV
reports, I mean, the, the newsroom

with everybody doing like every kind
of communication to the background,

like dude on the the Telegraph
and a guy on the phone, this guy

give smoke signals or whatever.

Like there's, that was a bit weird,
but like that interview with the

scientists and the military guy
and the one scientist is like, I,

yeah, they're space, radiation, and
other guy's like, no, no, no space.

And the military guy's like, I can't,
I don't look, we'll talk to you later.

And I just loved how fucking chaotic that
was, because it just felt very genuine.

Ben: I loved when-.

Emily: For something like that.

Ben: The sheriff was being interviewed
and they're like, not trying to

commit you to a timetable, but will
this be entirely solved in 24 hours?

I was like, I don't fucking know, man.

It's zombies.

We don't know what the fuck we're doing.

Jeremy: I mean, the sheriff ends up.

I mean, ultimately being part of,
the murder of our protagonist,

but like, I love the way the
sheriff has played throughout it.

That he is just like, he's
like, man, I don't know.

Like I got a bunch of guys with guns.

We're just going around, shooting them.

It takes a lot of time.

It's gonna take a lot of, effort.

So man, we're just, we're
figuring it out as we go.

Ben: Okay.

So in terms of the ending, I went into
this movie already knowing the ending,

like I've known what the ending is for
a while, but in my head I always thought

it was like Ben like comes out the house,
bursts outta the cellar that these, that

the sheriff and his posse would have like
a clear view of him and still like make

slightly snap decision, but also make
a dehumanizing decision to shoot him.

So I was a little surprised when it
was just like, oh, a curtain rustled.

I see a silhouette bang, nailed him
from like 50 feet away without even

without like seeing any detail.

Like, I was surprised
by how sudden it was.

Emily: Yeah.

I mean, I wasn't, I was pleasantly
surprised by that at least because you

know, it wasn't like super pointed,
it was just generally senseless.

Jeremy: And I mean, frankly seeing it
in the year 2022, like we've seen worse

on TV on a weekly basis from police,
like without a zombie apocalypse.

It feels much less like, oh, like they
were making a statement here rather than.

Oh, like it's, it is important that
he's black and, he's conditioned not

to even consider that he might be you
know, living human being in this case.

He just shoots him and,
and is done with it.

I couldn't help, but think
about the fact like in those

first couple scenes with Ben.

Like he comes outta that house
and just wrecks shop on those like

white zombies that are outside.

And I, I couldn't help thinking, like
how common it is even now to see, like,

Charlize Theron just kill a group of,
20 nameless Asian guys, or, you know,

for Keanu Reeves do the same, but
how rare it is to see a, black male

character in one of these stories,
just like take down these, you know,

white guys, even if they are a zombies.

Ben: Yeah.

Again, I love when, like,
How confident Ben is.

Ben is like, there's
five of them out there.

Ben's like, I can
fucking take five of 'em.

No problem.

I, me and trusty tire iron got this like,
he was like, I just like beat up two.

Set 'em on fire.

No big deal.

Like Ben at all times is confident
that he can kick their shit out

of like any individual zombie.

And he can, and I'm sorry, I do just
want to go back to the ending, cuz

again, I was taken by surprise cuz
I've always known what the ending was

and the racial implications of it.

And I guess the question I pose is
watching it and seeing that the execution

poor choice of words, but the filmmaking
execution of the scene is that Ben

is so obscured in the shadow that the
shooter doesn't even see like, and it

from such a distance that it doesn't
seem like the shooter could even tell

what his race was before shooting.

Yeah.

Does that lessen the impact of the ending?

And I don't know, it's a que
it, it's just a question I

pose, I don't know the answer.

Jeremy: I mean, I feel like if that
were a question that you had the

credits really answer that question.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The credit.

Yeah, the credits.

Yeah.

They make a point of showing
these sort of this white posse

that the sheriff has rounded up.

They're all white guys with guns,
come in with hooks and, you know,

scoop up his body with hooks and
take him out to the, pile, to burn

with all the rest of the bodies.

And it's, it's very clearly
evoking imagery of lynching.

Um, Yes.

And, they make absolutely, they don't say
it, but they really make a point of it in

that, you know, in that credits sequence.

Emily: Yeah.

Which is it confused me a little
bit because the whole rest of the

movie was so about the story rather
than about making that kind of

statement, but I mean, yeah, like-.

Ben: I don't wanna say race blind, but
there was a certain refreshing, just

lack of attention drawn to Ben's race.

It inform it informs the
character and the story.

Like it, it informs everything that's
going on without a doubt, but-.

Jeremy: You know, yeah.

I would think especially like his
relationship with Harry Cooper, like the

way that Harry Cooper reacts to him is
not the way he would react to an, a, a

white male of equal authoritative stance.

Ben: Absolutely.

And I like that we're able to get that
and it informs it and we're listen in

without the movie needing to have like,
you know, Harry Cooper throwing out

the N word or slurs during the film.

Like yeah.

It's able to achieve
that without, being that.

I don't know what the word is explicit
or over the top, or what have you,

but you know, the gist of what I mean.

Emily: Yes.

And that's something that, subsequent
zombie movies that take from Night of

the Living Dead fail to do, you know,
whenever you have all these characters

that come out and you don't have this
kind of just human quality in a lot of

these, especially with characters of
color, you know, cause with a lot of genre

films you have you sometimes have these
cartoony characters in a very problematic.

The decisions made with Ben are so
important in this movie and they're so

significant because of the fact that-.

Ben: The character, not me.

Right?

Emily: Sure.

I mean your, your DEC
you're important too.

Your decisions are also
important, but as they go-.

Ben: To specify because of
Ben's I'm like, is this the

recap or is this the character?

Emily: The character.

So no the character the decisions that
the film makes the narrative makes with

Ben, the character is very important.

Especially, because this is not the
decisions that are made in films

that are inspired by this movie.

And this movie does representation so much
better than movies made this year, right?

Ben: Oh, like, yeah.

Without a doubt.

Emily: Yeah.

So, you know, I'm glad
it's in the public domain.

And the fact that he survives through
everything and then, you can, once you

see the credits, you look back and you
say, you know, try to put it together.

And you're thinking like, okay, so
this guy survived through all of this

and was still treated like an animal.

Ben: I think one, another element
of this movie less a trope, more a

theme that I think is very enduring.

Certainly, you know, especially by
the next by Dawn of the Dead kind of

becomes like the central theme and
definitely kind of like the mission

statement of Romero's films, but again,
very much carries over to stuff like

Train to Busan and The Walking Dead is
this theme that in a zombie apocalypse,

the greatest danger is the other human
is still the other humans around us.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's something that, and
that's a theme that has very

much endured in the genre.

Emily: Yeah.

And it's also interesting to note that
Ben's initial reaction to hearing the dogs

and the guns outside is not to go out and
assume that people are there to help him.

He uh, points his gun
at the adversary first.

In order to preserve himself
against these zombies.

And you know, in another movie, this
may have maybe a com a, a comment

on violence or whatever, but the
whole build of his character is

about pragmatism and survival.

And also, and that also includes
the people he's with, unlike Cooper

who is more interested in keeping
himself alive rather than like

keeping a community together.

Ben: Yeah, well, um, uh, one trope that
this movie doesn't invent is the survivors

bitten and hides it from the group.

And while this movie doesn't do
that, I think we can all agree

that Harry Cooper is a thousand
percent the kind of guy who would.

Jeremy: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

He, he is exactly that kind of
guy who for sure would hide the

bite and then turn and, you know,
get somebody else killed for it.

Ben: His role in the movie is
just be like, is to just be the

target of all of the viewers' hate.

And he does a good ass job of it to
the point where like, hiding in the

cellar is what ultimately helps Ben
survive the night, which was Harry

wanted them to do from the start.

But he's just such a fucking fuck that
you know, that like you don't even

wanna give him credit for being right.

Cause fuck him.

Jeremy: Yeah well you know, I think where
this movie hits the nail on the head the

most is like we learn what, like a half
an hour in that like Harry and the rest of

his group have been there the whole time.

Like they were here before any of
the rest of them got here and they

locked themselves in the cellar.

And even though they heard people
upstairs, even though they heard like

people who were clearly alive fighting
against these dead people, they

did not come up to attempt to help.

They were not interested
in lending a hand at all.

And like, I think that's like, So much
a theme of the Romero strain of, of

zombie movies, where it is so much
about the zombies being poor people

who are, the rich people are doing
their best to keep all of their stuff

and not to help anybody else at all.

And you know, the zombies
are, there to take and eat.

uh, Eat the rich as it were.

Ben: I loved when Harry first
comes down is like, we couldn't

hear anything from down there.

And Ben immediately
catches him in the lie.

Yeah.

Like I love Ben's attitude towards
Harry from the start is I hate you.

And I'm not gonna put up with
one ounce of your bullshit.

Emily: Yeah.

And that's the first time that
like, Ben gets really spiky,

that he gets really aggressive.

The slap is a different thing.

I think, because this, the, you
know, that was a, a desperation

moment for both of them.

Jeremy: It's also very much a, I don't
know, tradition of filmmaking at the

time is if somebody starts acting
crazy and screaming, you slap them

and that's what solves the problem.

Airplane: I've gotta get outta here down.

Get a hold of yourself.

Please let me handle this.

I'm down.

I'll get back to your seat.

I'll take care of this problem.

Calm down.

Emily: Yeah.

And in this case, it also
didn't solve the problem.

And you also see-.

Jeremy: Well, it did keep her
from screaming for a minute.

Emily: Yeah.

And like attacking out the door.

Jeremy: But yeah.

Emily: But even when Ben shot Harry,
he, oh God, that the actor so good.

Cuz you could see the like consternation
and then the regret and then the like,

fuck, well I had to do it and you could
see his like conflict on his face.

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean,
uh, at that point he.

It's happened so often and been such
a big problem that like he knows at

some point, especially now it's either
going to be him or Harry, like yeah.

That's, that's the choice.

Ben: I mean, when Harry doesn't
lock the doesn't unlock the door and

forces Ben to have to kick the door
in, which is then a huge weakness in

the house for the rest of the movie.

I mean that, like, that's a turning point.

Like that is when it really becomes like
only one of them is going to survive.

Like the two of them knowing each
other, like that was explicitly.

Like Harry leaving Ben to die
explicitly, abandoning him to be killed.

And God, is that satisfying when
Ben comes in and just starts beating

the ever loving shit outta him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeremy: Which must have been like a wildly
unusual scene in cinema at this point.

I know, like-.

Emily: Right?!

Jeremy: Romero had, I know Romero had a
lot of trouble like getting this shown

in places in the early days because
of, the fact the fact that not just

Ben absolutely wrecked shit on all of
these like white zombies, but that he

like actively beats the shit out of,
and then has to shoot Harry because

Harry is such a complete asshole.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: Like Ben is in so many ways, just
the embodiment of what white America

fears, like a strong, intelligent,
confident black man who is taking no

shit and is fully willing to just beat
the fuck out of any white person that

get, that tries to get in his way.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And Harry is absolutely like the
embodiment of conservative America.

And this is a, he is worried about
his theoretically he's worried

about himself and his family,
but his family fucking hate him.

So mostly he is just worried about himself
and, you know, can use his family as an

excuse for whatever else he needs to do.

I, and yeah, he's only cares
about other people in as much

as it benefits him to do so.

Ben: I think there is like
masculinity elements at play here too.

You know, like some very visual stuff.

Like Ben has a full head of
hair while Harry is balding.

Harry is depicted as kind of frumpy
out of shape and weak while Ben is

constantly portrayed as like, as
very active and strong and common.

Like, and I think you really get this
with, Helen's just constant disrespect

for Harry, is that like, it really seems
like fueling the insecurity and I guess,

you know, a different take on exploring
gender than you normally get, but very

much this difference in masculinity.

I got a little rambly and
lost the plot on that one.

I'll admit I didn't have a
point for that discussion.

Jeremy: No, I hear
you're absolutely right.

And I think Harry feels so much like
this current strain of, I mean they it's

still, they still call it white supremacy,
but like this proud boy movement of

being afraid of being like replaced by,
you know, other races and like being

disrespected by people of other races.

It's just so like it's so that same strain
of bullshit, like in the 1967 It's it.

God, it makes me so angry.

Yeah.

Emily: I mean, with Harry, I
think it's really telling that the

one person who is closest to him
hates his ass the most, you know?

And I think that's a really important
decision with the narrative because

with Ben, we don't know anything
about him, but we do see what he does.

We judge him from what he does.

And he is pretty decent to Barbara.

He is polite with her.

And when she does fall, he like
makes sure that she's she's.

He, yes.

You know, it gives her
space and then also he.

Ben: As much I've been har- Harping on
him hitting her overall, aside from that.

Emily: Yeah.

That's I mean, that's why I
was trying to be, cuz I like-.

Ben: I know, but I've been hitting, I've
been harping hard on it and I don't want

to make that to sum totality of their
interactions and relationships in this

movie because it is not, there is more
support and understanding going on.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

It's not cool to do a hit . And and for
him definitely, he didn't really need.

To do a hit.

Ben: Also just the element of
like, again, like I like Barbara, I

feel for Barbara, she is like, she
begins this movie, an intelligent,

empathetic, like, interesting person.

There is a ton of just personality and hi
and character that you feel from Barbara,

just in her first scene with Johnny.

So like, we are, the audience are
already kind of on Barbara's side.

Like we feel for her.

So it's just even more telling us who
to hate and who to be rooting for when

Ben defends her and Cooper is just
being a fucking useless asshole to her.

Emily: Yeah, I would.

And also we are following her
through her breakdown initially.

Well, Ben is supporting a breakdown.

Yeah.

And there's that bit where she's playing
with the The music box and like all the

doors open and close, and it does that
weird little music box dance, and she's

just kind of detached and looking at it.

And it was very relatable.

And even when she was trying, like,
I guess she was trying to help Ben

with the door and she would like go
up and she's like pushing on the door

and she just doesn't know what to do.

And, I think that's a very relatable
situation and the film is very

sympathetic for her, even though
she's doing nothing, could-.

Jeremy: Yeah, even Helen is- like Helen
makes a point of checking in on her.

I think it's interesting because
I feel like a lot of these movies,

the, antagonistic couple tends
to be a unit that comes together.

You have sort of the old biddy white lady
who is just generally a shit as well.

Yeah.

And like, she really, like, she's
worried about her daughter, but

she is also, always worried about
what's going on with Barbara.

She's very concerned about, Judy.

And I think Tom and Judy are, are
interesting, cuz I think, you commented

on Judy, Judy, not really having much
character, but I, I think they're

supposed to be to some extent the
audience surrogate, because they're

the ones that are having to choose
between these two alternatives.

And I think, Tom ends up, like Tom
could be somebody that you really

hate by the end of this movie, but he
ends up being kind of a good boy, Tom.

He does what he thinks is right.

And you know, doesn't make judgements
based on race or who's yelling at

him the most he, he does the right
thing and he uh, I mean, he's really

bad at pumping gas and unfortunately
that gets him killed, but-.

Ben: Tommy is not.

Good at making his own plans, but at
least he follows like the right person.

Like at first he's just like
listening to whatever Cooper says.

But then as soon as Ben shows
up, he is like, I will listen

to whatever Ben tells me to do.

Emily: He makes a good point
of trying to be a, keep a

peacekeeper as much as possible.

Like-.

Ben: And he never makes like an
explicit mistake that gets him killed.

Like, okay.

He dies trying to save Judy
when she's caught in the truck.

But even like before that, he
recognized like, okay, shit's fucked,

but we gotta get the truck far
enough away that it won't blow up

that like, it won't blow up and like
blow up the G the gas pump with it.

Yeah.

And then like, but doesn't stay
so long that he explodes, like

gets out, but then has to go back.

Like there is not necessarily
leadership to him, but there is

competence and friendliness that
is rare to see among a group among

uh, characters in these movies.

And also again, maybe it's just because
that scene, before they leave for

the house is real shmaltzy and nice
and sweet, but there was a moment

of make where I just kind of went
like, I'm glad they died together.

Like I'm glad one didn't have
to watch the other get killed.

Like they seemed really sweet and in love.

Emily: Yeah.

A little bit of a um, oh God.

Ben: From the, the characters
from um, Anna and the apocalypse.

Emily: Yeah.

The, a little bit of the, Anna
and the apocalypse situation.

Ben: That very much came
to mind watching it.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: Also a little bit of like, oh
good they die in an exploding truck.

That seems way faster than
zombie devouring, which we

then see the zombies eat them.

And it like that.

And the dead woman upstairs like
that is those are the legitimately

creepiest, most haunting moments.

Emily: Yeah.

Their like liver and their
intestines and stuff.

I mean, it's legitimately left of them.

Yeah.

Terrifying.

I mean, you wouldn't think that there
was much left of them, but the zombies

make quick work of the, you know,

Ben: it's Preco yeah, yeah.

Like how often the zombies get a hot meal?

Jeremy: You pointed out a good movie
that this movie reminds you of.

The Judy getting a piece of uh,
garments that is totally removable

stuck on something and dying
because of it reminded me of Old.

Emily: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ben: Oh God.

Yeah.

Jeremy: Swimming through the
pipe and you stuck in the coral.

Ben: I definitely had moment when
she like rushed out of the house,

even though she wasn't supposed to.

I definitely had this moment of like,
ah, Judy, what the fuck you doing?

But then was surprised that didn't
like immediately lead to her death.

And it was just like the old classic,
ah, jacket caught in the seatbelt.

A thing that has never happened to me
once, anytime I've ever ridden in a car.

Emily: Yeah.

Maybe this was a, a dig, actually,
I don't think there was a seatbelt.

I think it was just stuck in the door.

Ben: I gotta say my grandpa used
to have a car from like around this

time and it did not have seatbelts.

Emily: Yeah.

This I'm saying, yeah this truck.

Ben: What was, was she even caught in?!

Emily: In the door!

So your jacket stuck in the door?

I don't know.

Probably the door.

I mean, those are That's a 1950s vehicle.

That thing's probably a tank.

Ben: I mean, I shouldn't,
I don't in general.

I usually don't question when things
get caught in vehicles, in movies, cuz

that shit's just as common as quick
sand, like it's just gonna happen.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: You know, what, what felt
really real to me is like when we see

the sheriff and his, his patrol coming
up on the house, where's end there and

they stumble across this moment that was
really traumatic for us as an audience.

And they find like the exploded
truck and the Sheriff's like, oh,

looks like somebody had a barbecue.

And like, yeah.

It's just so something you would
say walking by it, not having

any idea what had happened.

And it just feels like very real and
callous in a way that like, yeah, that's

gonna happen in a zombie apocalypse.

You're gonna-.

Ben: It's yeah.

Joke.

It's there's such a casualness too.

Like when they're doing like,
the newscast before then.

And it's like the day after
the zombie apocalypse.

And they're like, all right,
I think we're done here.

I'm about wrapped up.

Ugh.

Can't wait to get home.

Ugh.

Long day at the office.

Am I right?

Like, there's just to relax it.

Like, we've been through so much
danger and tension for the last

hour and a half, and these guys
feel totally, completely safe.

Like there is no threat going on.

Emily: Yeah.

Well, and there's a, this
casualness to their callousness.

That is so like, I feel like it's a
bit understated at first, but I think

that's another like really clever move.

For the film, because it's just
like, yeah, this is how it is.

Cops.

Although it is uh, referred to a little
bit when they're listening to one

of the like radio reports or the um,
the TV report about law enforcement

and the guy on the radio, I believe
is saying something about how law

enforcement's response is bewilderment.

And then at a certain point the cops
essentially assemble a, a mob that

go around shooting basically you
know, anybody that moves and that

coming in with our hero, Ben really
builds up to that final credit scene.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I mean, and you, you guys were
talking about the, like casualness

of, of the sheriff and all these
characters who are dealing with the,

not even aftermath of this thing.

It's like still ongoing, people are
still, every time somebody dies, they're

turning into a zombie, it, it just feels
so eerily familiar to me in the year of

our Lord, 2022 of just being like, oh,
Nope, that's just the thing that happens.

That's just how it goes.

People die and there's this
horrible thing, but we're

just gonna get used to it.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeremy: It's tough, man.

Ben: It's hard to believe that we
would just solve like easily solve

zombies instead of just like, oh,
well zombies mean freedom and so

we have to have a zombie apocalypse
every, every week or so another town's

gotta have it zombie apocalypse.

Emily: And that's one of the
reasons that I'm very over zombie

apocalypse movies is because I feel
like , there's this element to it.

That is still very real to me.

Ben: Um, What about warm bodies?

The one where Nicholas Hoult is in
a romance and a solid quarter of

the movie feels like combination
car slash Abercrombie commercials.

Emily: I haven't seen that one.

So I guess I have to.

Ben: It's solidly below
average, but not terrible.

Emily: I do wanna talk a little bit
about the vocabulary and these newscasts,

where they're like, there's a string of
murderers, these assassins, you know,

and the zombies go from assassins to
ghouls and I just thought that was

interesting, but I'm gonna take this
opportunity to mention that I think

that the radiation thing as a zombie
conceit is really fucking underrated.

Jeremy: Like, yeah, it's really central
to this movie being made in the sixties

is that like it's radiation from space.

Like, you know.

Ben: Also, very key.

As an audience member, I
don't need an explanation.

Just in a mystery.

I even need an answer to.

Zombies are attacking and
these people have to survive a

seemingly impossible situation.

That's all I need to know.

Emily: And the best way to make
it an explanation unknowable is

just be like space madness for me.

That's really good.

Ben: I did love though, before they're
like space radiation, that's the

cause, when they're announcing like,
Hey, breaking news presidents, having

a meeting with all with his whole
cabinet, and guess what, motherfuckers?!

Goddam NASA's gonna be there.

Get hype.

Emily: I know.

And then they're like, we don't have
any information, but where everyone's

just like, why the fuck is NASA there?

Ben: Yeah.

Right?

Emily: And so, yeah, like the conceit
is that some Venus probe brought back

some crazy radiation which causes bodies
to come alive again, which is kind of

interesting actually, because it, it
speculates that, you know, whatever was

on that probe was able to reanimate bodies
through the electronic, like signals.

I'm just, I'm like reverse engineering
based on what I heard, because

like the only way I can see this
working is that radiation causes

the neurons of the electricity
and the brain to fire up again.

And then just like animate the
body from the alligator brain,

you know, for them to just like
consume, be fruitful and multiply.

But uh, I thought it
was a really cool idea.

Ben: It works like I'm into it.

Like, look, I know viruses are big
cuz Hey COVID and also decades and

also several decades before COVID.

I don't know when viruses
became the main reason.

I wonder when is that?

Cuz I cuz given that Romero was
big God, would that have honestly

been resident evil in the nineties?

Emily: No, no, there was.

Or couldn't be, there
were viruses before that.

Ben: Is it the Andromeda strain?

Is the real world, the Andromeda strain.

I don't know what the Andromeda strain is.

Emily: The Andromeda strain
is a, is a space virus.

Ben: And oh, that's where's just
combining the zombie origins.

That's legit.

That's dope.

Oh man.

Yeah, that then you're gonna get,
you're gonna get super zombies

with space with space virus.

That's like zombie on zombie.

Emily: Talk about a movie that does have
some progressive stuff in it though.

But we'll talk about that at another day.

Maybe this, this October, but stay tuned
uh, subscribe to our Patreon and you

can hear me talk about Andromeda strain.

Anyway, so, this movie goes hard
and it goes hard, like right

around, the tragic element.

Really goes hard once that truck explodes.

And then we have the, you know,
the cascade of events, which I was

not expecting this movie to have
the, the zombie daughter fucking

psycho kill for a, maybe a solid
minute of like crazy screams.

Ben: Oh, yeah, no screams, echo.

They reverberate.

Yeah, they got all sorts of wonky.

I don't know what they did, but
them some crazy ass screams.

That is a hardcore death of just a
small child driving a garden trowel

that into her mother over and over.

Jeremy: Yeah.

That scene.

Cuz like we see Harry like stumble
down there after he is been shot

and collapsed in front of her.

And like the real first thing that
we get, that's an indication that

the daughter has, has become a
zombie is like when Helen comes down

there, she is eating her father.

It's like, oh shit, it just got real.

Ben: I also love how Ben, once
again, being on the ball, here's

like, oh our daughter got bitten
and now he doesn't know what

exactly is going on, but he knows.

It's like.

Well, that sure is fuck.

Ain't good.

Emily: Did they mention
that she had was bitten?

Ben: Yes.

She's bitten and Ben's responses.

Who knows what kind of virus?

Like what kind of virus these things have.

Like this isn't even a trope
yet and Ben knows, oh shit.

Zombie bites are bad news.

Emily: Well, I mean, any, anything
that is dead, can give you

some serious infection, like-.

Ben: Which I guess, yeah.

I guess you should just be common sense.

Bites are bad, but yeah.

I don't know.

I still I'm still giving it to
Ben for being awesome on that one.

Emily: Yeah.

Well, I mean, it's more explicit
that the radiation or whatever it

is is affecting the recently dead.

So it's not that the uh, the
bite turned her into a zombie.

It was that she died, from the bite.

Ben: Yeah.

Yeah.

Emily: Which is probably an infection,
you know, just a regular old infection.

And then the, the space
madness got her, but-.

Ben: Are zombies like
komodo dragons you decide?

Emily: If komodo dragons were-

Ben: Oh man, if you got bit by a
komodo dragon and then you became

a komodo dragon, then it would be
kind of like district eight sort of.

Emily: District eight?

Ben: District, whatever number district,
where the guy is in South Africa and

then he gets turned into the bug alien
when he gets hit with bug gasoline.

Emily: District nine.

Ben: That's the one.

I was off by a district.

Jeremy: This district eight is werewolves.

This is-.

Emily: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's right.

Jeremy: Werewolves and
there's vampires after that.

Ghosts is I think district three.

All the districts are different, you know?

Emily: I will say though, imagine
being in that audience, when that

zombie child killed her mother in 1968.

Ben: Oh no, man.

People were like, oh, what
would you do if you had a time

machine, would you kill Hitl-?

I'm like, I'd go to 1968 and see
audience reactions to the little

girl, death, little girl mur murdering
her mom in Night of the Living Dead.

Jeremy: Then you jump forward 40 years
and go see audience reactions to Zack

Snyder's Dawn of the dead when the
tiny zombie baby rips people open

and starts zipping around the room.

Just I don't-.

Emily: Listen-.

Jeremy: Are we ever going to-

Emily: zombie baby-

Jeremy: Talk about Zack
Snyder's Dawn of the Dead in

this movie or in this show cuz-

Ben: Dawn of the dead.

Yes.

Army of the dead.

Fuck no.

Emily: There was a Zo
baby in, in dead, alive.

Yeah.

That the dude had to
babysit for a whole day,

Jeremy: Dead alive.

Knew it was a joke.

Yeah.

Dawn of day I do.

Did

Ben: not.

I do like how Ben had that initial
reaction of like, oh shit child.

This is like bad and freaky.

But then he is like, ah, back to the
mission at hand, fucking get outta here.

You're not, you're just not strong.

You're a weak little tiny zombie child.

I'm I'm done with you child . Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeremy: I think now that it's, that's
easily, the best part of the movie.

We've talked a lot about
the race stuff in the movie.

We talked a lot about, I mean, class
isn't openly addressed in this movie,

but is very tied up in everything.

Especially with the race class
will become a much bigger part

of it in the later Romero movies.

There's no queer
representation in this movie.

Ben: All, no, nothing queer
in this movie in terms of.

I struggle with whether this
movie is feminist or not.

Cuz you look at the characters.

It's like, okay, it's not Barbara
spends a lot of this movie just being

in shock, but I find her to still be
a very likable character and her shock

and trauma are very believable in
understanding and Ben doesn't volunt

and like, and like asides in the part
where, you know, he uses violence to

calm her down slash knock her out.

Are the other characters that we
like don't judge Barbara for their

for her trauma and her shock,
which makes it easier for us, the

audience to still support her.

Helen gets credit for just hating
the fuck out of her husband.

Who's terrible.

Jeremy: Unfortunately both Helen and
Judy are pretty passive as characters.

They don't yeah.

Have their own stories.

They don't do their own things.

Judy pretty actively fucks up the rescue
attempt whether she means to or not.

Ben: Um, So I don't think there's
movies like terrible towards its women

characters, but I definitely wouldn't
also wouldn't say that any of the

themes in this movie are feminist.

Jeremy: Those five minutes between
Joey dying and Barbara getting into

the house and discovering the dead
woman, Barbara is pretty solid.

Ben: Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

But yeah, I mean, race is definitely,
this movie is a big thing and , Ben

is such a well written interesting
main protagonist for this movie.

Like again, like his level of just Stu not
stoic is the wrong word, but just like his

unrelenting, practicality and pragmatism.

Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And there, there won't be another.

Black character like him in a horror
movie forward at least 20 years.

Yeah.

Which is like, yeah.

After this, we do have, there are
several movies like Blacula that like

have black people in horror, but they're
so centered on black exploitation.

There's so much active use of tropes.

A lot of them racial and racist.

And this, this movie
doesn't have any of that.

Like he is unquestionably the
protagonist and the hero of this movie.

And yeah, it makes a, it makes a
real statement with him going out

how, and when he does in this movie.

Ben: Yeah.

And he definitely explores it and these
are super important themes, but I feel

it does a good job just letting itself be
a pure zombie movie while still doing a

fantastic job tackling and exploring and
bringing to light these themes and issues.

Emily: Was he written black?

Like was his character intended to
be black in the original script?

Jeremy: It's hard to say uh,
Romero, co-wrote the script.

And I know it was very much like
from interviews with him very

much his intention to make a
racial statement in this movie.

Yeah.

And I think, you know, you absolutely
see that later have to be Romero movies,

as well as there, there are a lot of
black characters in Rome's horror and

Ben: he's, I mean, just as
a filmmaker, he strikes me.

He is always just very intentional.

Like the, an like just how.

Focus the anti-capitalism and consumerism
message in Dawn of the Dead is,

Emily: I mean, earlier I mentioned,
I mean, I used the word elegant and I

feel like that was, that is especially
applicable to how Ben is presented in

this movie, which is why I ask, because
like, in 1968, it's incredibly difficult

for any film to present a character of
color without falling into a stereotypical

expectation, and this character is one
of these few, like one of these few,

just in the entirety of, of horror few
characters, that could be any race,

initially until we get like the statement
about the police really coming in at

the end there, but the I mean, I, it
sounds like that George Romero intended.

Okay.

Jeremy: There's actually there
some information about this.

The character Ben was
originally supposed to be.

Ah, we've done reset a good
but resourceful truck driver

with no specifications on
race after Duane Jones, huh?

In real life self serious, erudite
academic, auditioned for the part

director and co-writer George Romero
rewrote the part to fit his performance.

Ben: I love that because
yeah, damn like, I don't know.

I, again, I just think Ben is such
a unique and super compelling main

character and yeah, the fact that this
is really good representation that

the movie wouldn't see that the genre
wouldn't see again for literally decades.

in addition to inventing the zombie
apocalypse genre makes it just such

a stronger, more powerful film.

But there's one other issue that the
movie brought up and, you know, discussed

and, it's something, I still see people
talking about like every year and it

just really makes you think like, God,
they were still discussing this in 1968.

And that's when they're bitching
about daylight savings time.

Yeah.

Right.

Jeremy: Yeah.

That's where, that's one of my few notes.

My, my first note is the traditional
American discussion about daylight

savings time that like they're
bitching about it right there

at the beginning of the moment.

And I was like, I love, I loved that.

That's relatable.

Emily: Yeah, no, that's where I
immediately warmed up to Barbara.

I'm like, yeah, you get it girl.

Correct.

Ben: Right.

Fucking we're almost like 60 years.

We're like 50, over 50 years later.

And we're still having these same
God conversations year in, year

out every day, light savings time.

Emily: The struggle the eternal
struggle, daylight savings, the

eternal, their perpetual hassle.

So yeah, I think that's
pretty much does it.

Jeremy: So do we recommend this movie?

Emily: A hundred percent,
you have no excuse.

In fact, I will lose respect
for you if you don't watch it.

I'm kidding.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I, yeah, I absolutely think
this movie is worth watching.

I would recommend everybody check it out.

It's very easy to find.

Definitely.

As we've discussed I don't know
what the quality is like everywhere

else, but it's beautiful on HBO max.

It's really?

Ben: Oh fuck.

I should have watched it there.

Why'd I watch it on YouTube.

Emily: I watched it on prime.

So.

Jeremy: It's the criterion
collection version on there.

It's in for, well, it's in, they're
re-upped 4k, so, it's very pretty.

You can't even I mean you can practically
taste the chocolate sauce dripping

off of everybody in this movie.

It is, it is chocolate sauce
because you don't have to make it

red if it's in black and white.

Guys, what would you recommend
people check out if they're

coming off of watching this movie
and wanna watch something else?

Ben: I would check out the summer
ween episode of Gravity Falls and

then watch the rest of Gravity Falls.

Jeremy: It's good choice.

Emily: I would, I would recommend
watching Shaun of the Dead because of

all of the direct references in Shaun
of the Dead to this movie specifically

which is uh, important because we,
a lot of us watch Shaun of the Dead

and we have an entire, decade or
several decades in fact of zombie

genre that informs Shaun of the Dead.

So, if you want to have a fun little
academic and also fun horror experience

right after night of living dead,
which is free, pretty much everywhere.

Ben: I mean this movie track it down.

Emily: It's very good.

Sorry.

Sorry about that.

Oh, I said,

Ben: see if you track it down.

The movie is very good.

Should definitely see it.

And.

Again, I know if you've seen all
the zombie movies, you've seen all

these tropes and stuff like that
this movie still gets credit for

inventing pretty much all of them.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Zombie Casablanca.

Like when you watch Casablanca
for the first time, you'll

be like, oh, I've seen that.

Oh.

And I've seen that.

Oh, and I've seen that.

And it's because they
all came from this movie.

Ben: Yeah.

Yeah.

Like every zombie movie that you have
enjoyed, like even if there's zombie

movies that you think are better
than this, every zombie movie you've

ever enjoyed, only exists because
Night of the Living Dead exists.

Emily: Yes.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Ben, did you wanna give
your recommendation?

Ben: I was watching Gravity Falls.

Oh yeah.

Gravity Falls.

I mean, I mean, I guess is something
actually, nah, zombie I don't know.

Dead.

Rising has to be out on some of
these consoles go play dead rising.

It's a lot of fun.

You get to put on a Megaman costume
and mow down zombies with a lawnmower.

Emily: I mean, if that's not a selling
point, I don't know what is, because

if all of my video game purchases
and, or playing decisions revolve

around whether or not I can be Megaman

Ben: and rising is, I mean, it's,
well, it could not be more Dawn of

the dead inspired with its taking
place in a shopping mall setting.

Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And lets see my, my
recommendation for this week.

I don't think I've talked about it yet,
but recently my family watched the cartoon

dead end paranormal park uh, which is on
Netflix which is a Mo, which is a TV show.

It's an animated show
uh, with two, two leads.

Uh, One of whom Barney
is a young trans boy.

And uh, the other one the other lead
is a young autistic girl who both

get sort of these jobs working in
what is basically haunted, Dollywood.

And so like they, encounter and
a whole series of basic demons and

hauntings and all this uh, weird
stuff going on throughout the park.

Uh, Being haunted by uh, a number
of evil presence while they're just

trying to also, you know, do their
jobs, working at a theme park and

deal with their various family issues.

It, this shows a lot of fun.

It also involves a magical talking
dog which, you know, is a great

selling point for me with anything.

But yeah, it, it's not real long.

I think it's like 12 episodes
and it's well worth the time.

It's not particularly scary, but it
does have a lot of like fun horror,

inspired tropes and stuff in it.

So definitely worth checking out.

Well, that's it for us here?

Uh, You can find us online.

You can find Emily at megamoth
on Twitter at mega_moth on

Instagram and at megamoth.Net.

Ben is on Twitter at BentheKahn, and
on their website at benkahncomics.com

where you can pick up all of their books.

And finally, for me, you can find
me on Twitter and Instagram at J

Rome five eight, and on my website
jeremywhitley.com, where you can

check out everything that I write.

And of course the podcast is on Patreon
at progressively horrified on our website

at progressivelyhorrified.transistor.fm
and on Twitter at proghorrorpod,

we would love to hear from you.

And speaking of allowing to
hear from you, we would love it.

If you could rate and review this podcast,
wherever you're listening to it right

now, five stars helps us get into the, the
ears of new listeners and get out there.

Emily: Crawl right inside.

Jeremy: Yeah, we just crawl in there.

It's real creepy.

Ben: Like the yeerks from Animorphs.

Remember the yeers?

Emily: No.

Ben: From Animorphs?

Emily: I don't.

Jeremy: I don't.

Emily: Sorry.

Jeremy: I was gonna go with the, their
ear holes are specifically us shaped.

It's like the Junji Ito thing.

Emily: Oh yeah.

This ear was made for me.

Jeremy: This ear was made for us.

Emily: Yeah.

Jesus-.

Ben: These ears were made for listening.

Emily: Hell yeah.

Jeremy: So thank you as always to
Ben and Emily for joining me and

congratulations guys, we did it.

We made a hundred episodes of this thing.

Emily: Woo.

Whole hundred.

Ben: Thank y'all for listening
to oh yeah, out there.

Jeremy: Thank you all for listening.

And until next time stay horrified.

Alicia: Progressively horrified
as created by Jeremy Whitley and

produced by me, Alicia Whitley.

This episode featured the horror
squad, Jeremy Ben and Emily.

All opinions expressed by the
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and do not represent the intent or
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Bye.